why ATP players generate more spin and power then WTA players

[blablavla]

@TheGhostOfAgassi raised a good question.
don't know why the thread was deleted instead of being moved over here.

leaving aside the entire discussion that happened there, with arguments that Serena's serve speed is as fast as men speed, and at some selected tournaments women clock faster groundies of the combined tournament, and how many pull-ups and push-ups an average man vs average woman can do, I think it boils down to total energy that the player can induce to the ball.
this energy is being split between the sheer pace and spin.

from my observation, women tend to play with light-weighted frames.

also, correct me if I am wrong, women on average have less weight, which means that there will be less energy to be transferred to the ball.
in comparison, a top light-weight boxer might generate an astonishing power while hitting, from sheer speed and technique, but a top heavy-weight will still be able to top it up.

Now when we combine this, and compare the pinnacle of the ATP vs pinnacle of WTA, will this explain why men hit "heavier" groundies?
if player A has bigger mass, uses it well and plays with a heavier frame, and probably with a higher SW, should we wonder that player A generates heavier groundies.

what do you think folks?
what other factors result in men hitting "heavier"?

 

[sureshs]

Chest anatomy

 

[LeeD]

Serena bigger than you.
Serena stronger than you.
Serena lift more than you.
Serena hit ball harder than you.

 

[polksio]

Serena bigger than you.
Serena stronger than you.
Serena lift more than you.
Serena hit ball harder than you.

Serena also 370 sw or something

 

[Deleted member 771407]

Serena bigger than you.
Serena stronger than you.
Serena lift more than you.
Serena hit ball harder than you.

Talk for yourself

 

[BevelDevil]

Forehand technique. "Pull" vs. "Push".

The only quality "pull" forehand I know of was Henin's, which was awesome.

 

[FailBetter]

Forehand technique. "Pull" vs. "Push".

The only quality "pull" forehand I know of was Henin's, which was awesome.

and she wasnt that big

 

[LeeD]

Serena, TRAINED athlete, 5'10" and 185 lbs is stronger than ANY of us on Talk T.

 

[polksio]

I ... dont think so. You can be 220 pounds but no testosterone and your muscle fibers are slow as **** and you bone anatomy is not ideal for ball striking and a 150lbs male skeleton will generate more power. I hope youre trolling in which case you got me to respond, well played

 

[Deleted member 771407]

Serena, TRAINED athlete, 5'10" and 185 lbs is stronger than ANY of us on Talk T.

lol you are either old or a manlet. I'm taller heavier and have 0 fat. She is as fat as a cow. Let's get real.

 

[Deleted member 771407]

She is 155 lbs or 70 kg according to a quick google search, she is not THAT obese. And only 5.9 or 175 cm.

That she can overpower other women is one thing. She stands no chance against ranked males because of power, and the only reason she would beat good youngsters is technique and mental, not power. It's really the year 2020 when people have forgotten how big the difference between males and females is because most people are couch potatoes.

 

[polksio]

She is 155 lbs or 70 kg according to a quick google search, she is not THAT obese. And only 5.9 or 175 cm.

That she can overpower other women is one thing. She stands no chance against ranked males because of power, and the only reason she would beat good youngsters is technique and mental, not power. It's really the year 2020 when people have forgotten how big the difference between males and females is because most people are couch potatoes.

Please, yannick sinner the resident skellington would feed her bagels all day

 

[Deleted member 771407]

Please, yannick sinner the resident skellington would feed her bagels all day

Not sure if you're being ironic but I never hinted that any of us would have a chance at beating her in a tennis match, I'm just saying the assumption she is stronger than all males on this forum because she is a top tennis player is ridiculous.

Edit : never mind, I did not know this player but you are correct. All top 100 male players have more power than serena.

 

[3virgul14]

I`ve seen Serena from couple of meters , twice, once in Budapest WTA and once in year end finals in Istanbul, both in the players tunnel warming up.

Compared to any normal human being her image is very bulky, I mean body builder bulky , don't underestimate. Was really surprised. her legs were double as mine and arms and shoulders too. Remind you I am as tall as her and probably I would weight the same, but man she has bulky muscles hence can generate power much more than women`s average.

P.S: I have seen many players and shaked hands and none of them ever were huge as Serena, Azarenka - Pliskova - Halep- Sharapova they all have your sporty neighbour bodies. Some of the girls like Vekic, Radwanska, Ivanovic, Errani , even look childish next to Serena.

 

[Deleted member 771407]

A lot of it is fat though. Women keep much more fat than men, even when they look "shredded" (not Serena's case). And yet you are heavier for a similar height. I mean it's physics, mass is energy, and muscle is denser than fat. I mean just think about the amount of fat in her buttocks, thighs and chest alone...

The only time she was close to shredded (still big butt and chest) she weighted 65 kg. Remove the butt and chest and she would be closer to 60kg. How much room does that leave for muscles ? https://mtonews.com/serena-williams-lost-all-baby-weight-plus-some-skinny-pics

She doesn't look big at all in this picture, because a lot of her bulk is fat. And that's normal, because women don"t get naturally bulky without gaining some fat too, it's how hormones work.

Edit : And yeah, she is clearly stronger than her competition in the WTA. I'm just comparing her to regular dudes in shape.

In most sports where there is little skill and power is the main factor, good amateur males are at the level of the very best females of all times, as in breaking female world records (Running, weight lifting, throwing etc). Tennis is a bit different because technique is primordial, but in this thread we are talking about pure power.

 

[zipplock]

Serena, TRAINED athlete, 5'10" and 185 lbs is stronger than ANY of us on Talk T.

False. Have you heard of Suresh?

 

[tom-selleck]

OP, i think you answered your own question......

men are stronger than women. and then as you note, men can use more powerful equipment maybe ...... we wouldn't remotely have had this discussion about golf or sprinting? men are clearly better there.

in golf it is interesting....... apparently strength comes into things like putting and chip/pitch where you wouldn't think it would. forearm strength, wrist strength??

 

[pencilcheck]

It is not about stronger or not, it is the coaching tips. I heard a lot of those coaches focus on flat hitting and angle cutting, so a lot of girls are trained this way, they are not taught to hit with a lot of spins in the game. If you teach a girl mental different way to approach tennis with a lot of spins and variations, then the girls can also hit with a lot of spin.

 

[big ted]

serena is more of an exception than the norm in the WTA so i wouldnt use her as an example...
reality is the #1 WTA player barty is 5'5" and 140lbs ...

 

[Deleted member 771407]

I agree that they can hit with a lot of spin. But maybe it's harder for most of them and it helps explain the trend, I don't know.

 

[big ted]

It is not about stronger or not, it is the coaching tips. I heard a lot of those coaches focus on flat hitting and angle cutting, so a lot of girls are trained this way, they are not taught to hit with a lot of spins in the game. If you teach a girl mental different way to approach tennis with a lot of spins and variations, then the girls can also hit with a lot of spin.

i agree too, you can see their mechanics are different.. for some reason hard flat hitting is a better strategy in the WTA

 

[blablavla]

False. Have you heard of Suresh?

@sureshs would feed Serena bagels all day long.
OK, @sureshs is a gentleman, he would give her a game or two occasionally.

 

[pencilcheck]

i agree too, you can see their mechanics are different.. for some reason hard flat hitting is a better strategy in the WTA

In US, most coaches are transitioning to the "modern game" (not sure if I agree). Where big serve and flat rally is the norm (roddick is the prime example of that). It seems like the spinny, finesse game is more taught and emphasized in europe for men tennis there, probably due to prevalent of clay courts there.

 

[tom-selleck]

the greater use of flat strokes in WTA is interesting...... one huge difference is that the serve dominates so much in mens game. womens game is often more like normal rallies.

how would a sharapova that was 30% better do in the mens game? kinda like connors in style.......

 

[tom-selleck]

no expert, but i thought the big serve followed by big forehand is passe (not that that makes sense..... it should be very popular in mens game)..... don't hear of it much these days? i think people attribute it to bolletieri...

 

[Deleted member 769694]

The only chance for a women to hit a winner on todays court speed is flatter

Please, yannick sinner the resident skellington would feed her bagels all day

Id take J0lly over her. When i played more i would beat her as well

 

[dominikk1985]

Because men are stronger and thus generate higher Racket head speeds.

It has nothing to do with Racket technology or atp
hitting technique, men are just stronger and faster due to different hormone levels.

For the same reason men are almost a second faster in the 100m dash or jump 4 feet longer in the long jump.

 

[zipplock]

@sureshs would feed Serena bagels all day long.
OK, @sureshs is a gentleman, he would give her a game or two occasionally.

He would let her feed him a bagel ......
if it had butter and cream cheese on it.

 

[LeeD]

She is 155 lbs or 70 kg according to a quick google search, she is not THAT obese. And only 5.9 or 175 cm.

That she can overpower other women is one thing. She stands no chance against ranked males because of power, and the only reason she would beat good youngsters is technique and mental, not power. It's really the year 2020 when people have forgotten how big the difference between males and females is because most people are couch potatoes.

Yeah.
And Venus at 6'2" is 130 lbs.
And Kevin Durant is listed at 6'9".
Believe Google, don't use your brain.

 

[sureshs]

The only chance for a women to hit a winner on todays court speed is flatter



Id take J0lly over her. When i played more i would beat her as well

Never mind about Jolly. Just focus on beating her (always hypothetically in the past or future of course). Like every male poster on here.

 

[Deleted member 771407]

Yeah.
And Venus at 6'2" is 130 lbs.
And Kevin Durant is listed at 6'9".
Believe Google, don't use your brain.

Serena Williams | Player Stats & More – WTA Official

Get the latest Player Stats on Serena Williams including her videos, highlights, and more at the official Women's Tennis Association website.

www.wtatennis.com

Use your brain, from one of the most oblivious posters on this site ! I feel blessed.

 

[Deleted member 771407]

Never mind about Jolly. Just focus on beating her (always hypothetically in the past or future of course). Like every male poster on here.

I saw your video. I admire your courage to keep posting after that.

 

[Deleted member 769694]

Never mind about Jolly. Just focus on beating her (always hypothetically in the past or future of course). Like every male poster on here.

Was more of a comment that alot of club pro's would beat serena.

 

[blablavla]

I saw your video. I admire your courage to keep posting after that.

you have to reset your mind and watch that video again.

look at the touch.
look at how @sureshs chooses his position on the court, just where the ball will be coming, well, sooner or later, after one bounce or several.
why rush when you can chill?

 

[dr325i]

I saw your video. I admire your courage to keep posting after that.

Can we see your video?

 

[LeeD]

Stats are for idiots.
Serena is easy 180 after starving herself for 2 days. Pounds.
I'm same height, HALF as wide, and 159 lbs.
She is more than 20 lbs heavier than me.

 

[Deleted member 771407]

Can we see your video?

I'll post one some day

 

[Deleted member 771407]

Stats are for idiots.
Serena is easy 180 after starving herself for 2 days. Pounds.
I'm same height, HALF as wide, and 159 lbs.
She is more than 20 lbs heavier than me.

Yes you must know better than anyone. i'll trust you.

 

[dominikk1985]

Stats are for idiots.
Serena is easy 180 after starving herself for 2 days. Pounds.
I'm same height, HALF as wide, and 159 lbs.
She is more than 20 lbs heavier than me.

Serena is stronger than male middle aged rec athletes but she is not as strong as 25 year old male world class athletes.

 

[sureshs]

Was more of a comment that alot of club pro's would beat serena.

Only if they were former high level players or college players, like Jolly. A "bottom-up" club pro whose highest rating was 4.5 would not beat Serena, or even a good junior girl he teaches, unless she succumbs to psychological pressure.

 

[sureshs]

Serena is stronger than male middle aged rec athletes but she is not as strong as 25 year old male world class athletes.

Isn't that obvious?

 

[bostontennis]

that may not be true in the future.
once they allow transgender players in WTA, given equal pay movement today, we will see equally strong WTA players, not necessary female, who will match ATP players physically and technically.

 

[WildVolley]

Serena is stronger than male middle aged rec athletes but she is not as strong as 25 year old male world class athletes.

If you take this as describing the average, then it is possibly true with respect to the rec athletes. In reality, Serena isn't nearly as strong as most any male college athlete, and few of those guys are world class.

But I don't know why LeeD went off on his rant. There are middle-aged rec athletes who post on this board who are significantly stronger than Serena. That doesn't mean they'd have a chance in a tennis match, but it is just reality.

A lot of people underestimate the strength difference between the average man and the average woman. If you look at the studies, on many common things such as grip strength, the distribution curves barely overlap.

 

[dominikk1985]

If you take this as describing the average, then it is possibly true with respect to the rec athletes. In reality, Serena isn't nearly as strong as most any male college athlete, and few of those guys are world class.

But I don't know why LeeD went off on his rant. There are middle-aged rec athletes who post on this board who are significantly stronger than Serena. That doesn't mean they'd have a chance in a tennis match, but it is just reality.

A lot of people underestimate the strength difference between the average man and the average woman. If you look at the studies, on many common things such as grip strength, the distribution curves barely overlap.

Yeah sure, a middle aged guy who happens to be a busy builder could be stronger than serena, if he is just sitting on the couch likely.

Of course strength isn't everything, tennis is like 70% technique and tactics and only 30% fitness and strength (which is why John McEnroe would still beat an nba point guard or decathlon champion who had half a year of good tennis instruction but those 70% are attainable for women and those 30% only partially.

Also you can be quite good and still get double bagled. A player who is 10% worse will get double bagled almost every time, you need to be super good to win 3-4 games per set against a top10 player.

 

[Deleted member 769694]

Only if they were former high level players or college players

So you agree

Can we see your video?

Do you have one up?

 

[Deleted member 769694]

Stats are for idiots.
Serena is easy 180 after starving herself for 2 days. Pounds.
I'm same height, HALF as wide, and 159 lbs.
She is more than 20 lbs heavier than me.

If you ever saw her next to a nfl player, you would know she is around 220.

I remember her and emmit smith (rb from cowboys), he looked smaller next to her

 

[Cobaine]

Lol at Jolly beating Serena. Clueless AF.

 

[Rosstour]

Serena, TRAINED athlete, 5'10" and 185 lbs is stronger than ANY of us on Talk T.

She hasn’t been 185 for a long time

 

[Deleted member 768841]

Serena also 370 sw or something

Jesus H. Tap Dancing Christ! Might as well use a real sledgehammer.

 

[dr325i]

So you agree



Do you have one up?

I do
However, I am not bashing other players on this board...
And by the way, I got a chance to hit with Suresh and it was a lot of fun