Why Carpet Courts Were Perma Banned

Kralingen

G.O.A.T.
I really like that guy’s channel, he does a great job of researching and contextualizing off court history. So much goes into what we see as viewers on court and the level of access compared to team sport is sadly very vague and high-level.

I find it hilarious that Federer actually got to choose the surface of a Masters event btw.
 
I really like that guy’s channel, he does a great job of researching and contextualizing off court history. So much goes into what we see as viewers on court and the level of access compared to team sport is sadly very vague and high-level.

I find it hilarious that Federer actually got to choose the surface of a Masters event btw.
For sure, plus his presentation is top notch. Every time I see he’s uploaded a new video I give it a gander. High quality marks all around.

It’s an disgrace, an scandal, an outrage!
 

Fabresque

Hall of Fame
I really like that guy’s channel, he does a great job of researching and contextualizing off court history. So much goes into what we see as viewers on court and the level of access compared to team sport is sadly very vague and high-level.

I find it hilarious that Federer actually got to choose the surface of a Masters event btw.
This guy got everything handed to him on a silver platter and still wasn’t able to claim GOAThood LOL. One of the worst “all time great’s” we’ve ever seen.
 

metsman

G.O.A.T.
Lol this garbage is still going around. Honestly we need to ban these reddit sounding idiots from making tennis videos. This isn't basketball where no one knows anything about the history and you can sound smart via Google and Wikipedia.

Apart from the fact that no one should fully believe a guy named Jean Francois whatever, as they naturally predisposed to exaggeration and a flair for the dramatic, Federer didn't play Paris in 04/05 due to injury, skipped 06 due to already having played 92 matches that year before the YEC, and playing Paris would have taken him over 100 matches, so right off the bat anything that guy says is clearly bs. He played it in 03 and was fully intending to play in 04 and 05. Anyways Fed hated carpet so much that he showed up crippled to the 05 TMC on carpet and played Basel 06 on carpet. Does Federer generally prefer a slick indoor court to a carpet court? Sure, but due to the injury risk just about anyone would, and it's a guarantee that any player turning pro after the mid 90s or so would, which is why carpet started going the way of the horse and buggy around the turn of the century, not in freakin 2007 due to Federer. Anyways, Paris came up with some joke of an indoor hard court anyways besides 1 year past Federer's prime, so much for the theory that they wanted Fed to win. Then again, maybe that's what happen when the French try in tennis related matters anyways.

Paris switching from carpet was the death of carpet? What kind of complete drivel is this? Carpet was already on its way out. Madrid replaced the classic carpet tournament Stuttgart as the main Indoors masters, and was indoor hard court from the beginning in 2002. Many other tournaments like Vienna/Rotterdam also switched to hard around that time. The YEC switched in 2000, Shanghai tried bringing it back and then promptly switched it back. Basel, basically the last semi-major permanently carpet events besides Paris, switched in 2007. Paris was technically the last relevant tournament to get rid of carpet, and carpet was basically done in the early 2000s, it didn't set any dominoes in motion.
 
Lol this garbage is still going around. Honestly we need to ban these reddit sounding idiots from making tennis videos. This isn't basketball where no one knows anything about the history and you can sound smart via Google and Wikipedia.

Apart from the fact that no one should fully believe a guy named Jean Francois whatever, as they naturally predisposed to exaggeration and a flair for the dramatic, Federer didn't play Paris in 04/05 due to injury, skipped 06 due to already having played 92 matches that year before the YEC, and playing Paris would have taken him over 100 matches, so right off the bat anything that guy says is clearly bs. He played it in 03 and was fully intending to play in 04 and 05. Anyways Fed hated carpet so much that he showed up crippled to the 05 TMC on carpet and played Basel 06 on carpet. Does Federer generally prefer a slick indoor court to a carpet court? Sure, but due to the injury risk just about anyone would, and it's a guarantee that any player turning pro after the mid 90s or so would, which is why carpet started going the way of the horse and buggy around the turn of the century, not in freakin 2007 due to Federer. Anyways, Paris came up with some joke of an indoor hard court anyways besides 1 year past Federer's prime, so much for the theory that they wanted Fed to win. Then again, maybe that's what happen when the French try in tennis related matters anyways.

Paris switching from carpet was the death of carpet? What kind of complete drivel is this? Carpet was already on its way out. Madrid replaced the classic carpet tournament Stuttgart as the main Indoors masters, and was indoor hard court from the beginning in 2002. Many other tournaments like Vienna/Rotterdam also switched to hard around that time. The YEC switched in 2000, Shanghai tried bringing it back and then promptly switched it back. Basel, basically the last semi-major permanently carpet events besides Paris, switched in 2007. Paris was technically the last relevant tournament to get rid of carpet, and carpet was basically done in the early 2000s, it didn't set any dominoes in motion.
Mets, the Fed bit was like shortest segment of the video lol. The guy breaks down tennis becoming more global. That meant more tennis was played in places like Asia where it is warm enough to host outdoor events with bigger venues. Bigger venues = more tickets can be sold = more money.
 

CHillTennis

Professional
Mets, the Fed bit was like shortest segment of the video lol. The guy breaks down tennis becoming more global. That meant more tennis was played in places like Asia where it is warm enough to host outdoor events with bigger venues. Bigger venues = more tickets can be sold = more money.
Glad you like it.

Personally, I can't watch those videos.

That channel is like "Tennis for Noobs."
 

CHillTennis

Professional
For sure, plus his presentation is top notch. Every time I see he’s uploaded a new video I give it a gander. High quality marks all around.

It’s an disgrace, an scandal, an outrage!
He has a formula that works.

Sometimes it's good. Other times not so much.

I don't really like this style of content creating.

The pacing makes it difficult to sit through.
 
^^Those are the people that watch these videos.

Kids and noobs.

I already know this stuff.
Good for you. But I’ve seen this topic come up many times here, and most people usually go with the tired talking points of “carpet causes more injuries” or the conspiracy theory of “Federer helped kill carpet court tennis”. When really the tennis landscape changes were the biggest influence on the fall of carpet. At the end of the day tennis is a business and like any business the point is to make money.
 

Kralingen

G.O.A.T.
Have to get something off my chest here, when I was first learning about tennis and hadn't ever watched indoor carpet matches.

I thought tennis carpet was the same as more commonly used carpet, like home decor fabric carpet in my living room. This was around 2009 or something.

Obviously the use of video immediately cleared this up but for a good 2-3 years I believed tennis was at one point played on this:

 

metsman

G.O.A.T.
Mets, the Fed bit was like shortest segment of the video lol. The guy breaks down tennis becoming more global. That meant more tennis was played in places like Asia where it is warm enough to host outdoor events with bigger venues. Bigger venues = more tickets can be sold = more money.
that has nothing to do with anything. Carpet got discontinued because of injury risk and court speed reasons.
 

Turing

Rookie
Have to get something off my chest here, when I was first learning about tennis and hadn't ever watched indoor carpet matches.

I thought tennis carpet was the same as more commonly used carpet, like home decor fabric carpet in my living room. This was around 2009 or something.

Obviously the use of video immediately cleared this up but for a good 2-3 years I believed tennis was at one point played on this:

Clay kind of looked like sand when I first saw it so I thought RG was played at the beach or something. When I found out it was called clay I then thought it was the stuff Play-Doh was made of and I was like "why are they playing tennis on that?" I was pretty dumb as a kid.
 

Cashman

Hall of Fame
I swear this guy rips his material off from old TTW threads

we had this discussion several years ago when the L’Equipe article came out
 
Mets, the Fed bit was like shortest segment of the video lol. The guy breaks down tennis becoming more global. That meant more tennis was played in places like Asia where it is warm enough to host outdoor events with bigger venues. Bigger venues = more tickets can be sold = more money.
China or Japan are warmer than south Europe or Northern America?
Other thing, indoor tennis venues are/can be mostly bigger than outdoor ones, in tennis.
What are you talking about?
 

Oval_Solid

Professional
it doesnt get cold in asia
only rainy
amazing no?

didnt the youtube video source its info from the god save our king article?
if roger loves playing on carpets carpet would still be used today
 
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China or Japan are warmer than south Europe or Northern America?
Other thing, indoor tennis venues are/can be mostly bigger than outdoor ones, in tennis.
What are you talking about?
First off, the video is talking about the fall season which would take place after the European and NA HC seasons took place. When tennis became more global there were now more countries able to host tournaments. By having new host countries it means you are expanding your market and thus are able to sell your product to more people. Which again the point of any business is to make money.

As far as the second part of your post goes, the biggest stadiums in tennis are outdoor ones. And if you have a problem with what’s in the video you can leave a comment on the dude’s video by telling him how wrong he is.
 

smalahove

Hall of Fame
There are a lot of variation when it comes to carpet surface. Some thick, almost home-like, some with varying degrees of clay in them, and some thin and almost HC-like. The latter one is ime, a royal pita to play on, due to a super low bounce and extreme skidding. This is a surefire way to learn bad habits to beginners.
 

McGradey

Hall of Fame
Personally, I’m not huge on these guy-reads-Wikipedia-page style pieces of ‘content’. There is another channel popping up with cookie cutter videos entitled ‘how good was player X … really?”

Then the video is essentially reading out match results for 10 minutes to a montage of stock video and screenshots.

I mean whatever floats your boat. It obviously takes a lot of effort to make this stuff and it is informative. But I don’t get much insight from them, tend to drift off after a few minutes.
 

metsman

G.O.A.T.
It was literally in the video. As was everything else you just listed, but ok (y)
The video was garbage and misleading/clickbait beginning to end, two words and a picture about injuries don't change that.

Making out the Paris masters changing to hard in 2007 to be at all important to anything is idiotic. It's like talking about how Mischa Zverev, Deliciano, and Karlovic retiring is the death knell of serve and volley. The Asia narrative makes no sense, there's 1 outdoor HC tournament in Asia anyone cares about and it started in 2009.
 
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metsman

G.O.A.T.
First off, the video is talking about the fall season which would take place after the European and NA HC seasons took place. When tennis became more global there were now more countries able to host tournaments. By having new host countries it means you are expanding your market and thus are able to sell your product to more people. Which again the point of any business is to make money.

As far as the second part of your post goes, the biggest stadiums in tennis are outdoor ones. And if you have a problem with what’s in the video you can leave a comment on the dude’s video by telling him how wrong he is.
What does Asia have to do with carpet? Yeah the TMC was in Shanghai in 2002 and then in 2005, but on carpet funnily enough, what does that have to do with Lisbon and Madrid basically doing away with carpet permanently at the two biggest indoor events in the early 00s? Both those events moved from Germany further West, not East.
 
What does Asia have to do with carpet? Yeah the TMC was in Shanghai in 2002 and then in 2005, but on carpet funnily enough, what does that have to do with Lisbon and Madrid basically doing away with carpet permanently at the two biggest indoor events in the early 00s? Both those events moved from Germany further West, not East.
It’s literally in the video man. With the tennis market expanding there were more options to host tournaments in new countries. This meant there could be more options to play tennis outdoors in warmer weather where they would use HC as the main playing surface.

Carpet was already being phased out due to injury concern and to try and capture a larger casual audience. That’s been talked about ad nauseam. But the business and logistics side of things rarely if ever gets mentioned and that’s what the video focused on quite a bit.
 
The video was garbage and misleading/clickbait beginning to end, two words and a picture about injuries don't change that.

Making out the Paris masters changing to hard in 2007 to be at all important to anything is idiotic. It's like talking about how Mischa Zverev, Deliciano, and Karlovic retiring is the death knell of serve and volley. The Asia narrative makes no sense, there's 1 outdoor HC tournament in Asia anyone cares about and it started in 2009.
Again, that was practically a footnote.

As far as the Asian swing goes, you can basically say that for the rest of the fall season. There’s 2 MS1000’s (with only 1 being played indoors) and then the YEC. Other than that there’s not a whole lot to left to play for.
 

Backspin1183

Talk Tennis Guru
This was a pretty interesting video that made some rather in-depth points. Some of which that I haven’t really heard before/considered. And yes @Red Rick it is Federer’s fault :laughing:

Not seen the video yet. I don't think it was Federer's fault alone though. I thought it was both him and Nadal and a bunch others requesting the ATP to remove carpet from the tour. I don't know how vocal Nadal was then but Federer probably had the big say in it.
 
Not seen the video yet. I don't think it was Federer's fault alone though. I thought it was both him and Nadal and a bunch others requesting the ATP to remove carpet from the tour. I don't know how vocal Nadal was then but Federer probably had the big say in it.
It’s not really Ol’ Rog’s fault. That’s just one of Rick’s catchphrases lol. Carpet was being phased out in part because of injury concerns, and trying to capture a more casual audience.

But the video also talks about the changes in the tennis landscape such as: an expanding market, logistics, and revenue that played a big role in carpet being banned.
 
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