Why constant pull when stringing fast?

[LOBALOT]

In observing this discussion I am still left with the unanswered question.... Given proper and consistent technique.... If I am stringing poly and don't want to "deform/kill/pre-stretch" the string but do want a result close to the desired tension should I adjust my machine for a slow pull or leave it at normal speed?

Currently, on my Alpha Ghost 2, when stringing polyester, I have the settings for "Polyester" and "Slow Speed" based on reading previous threads thinking this was the best approach.

For synthetic gut/multi/natural gut I adjust to "Standard" and leave the "Slow Speed" setting.

 

[Irvin]

On a Babolat machine the speed is automatic depending on the string stiffness. The stiffer the string the faster the speed. Kevlar is pulled very fast while ZX is very slow.

 

[LOBALOT]

On a Babolat machine the speed is automatic depending on the string stiffness. The stiffer the string the faster the speed. Kevlar is pulled very fast while ZX is very slow.

OK, thank you. So I was not using the proper setting then. Instead I should:

For Poly - "Polyester" and "Fast" Pull Speed
For Kevlar - "Kevlar" and "Fast" Pull Speed
For Nat/Synth Gut/Multi - "Standard" and "Slow" Pull Speed

OK thanks!

 

[Irvin]

@LOBALOT I used to use the slow speed on my Wise and started getting errors. I sent it in to Wise and Herb told me I should not use the slow speed on 60 lb setting. That's where it was when he got the unit. He did not see any errors when using the faster speed. he recommended I use the slower speed only on low tensions under 30 lbs. From then on I used the faster speed and never had an issue.

 

[LOBALOT]

@LOBALOT I used to use the slow speed on my Wise and started getting errors. I sent it in to Wise and Herb told me I should not use the slow speed on 60 lb setting. That's where it was when he got the unit. He did not see any errors when using the faster speed. he recommended I use the slower speed only on low tensions under 30 lbs. From then on I used the faster speed and never had an issue.

Thank you!!!

 

[uk_skippy]

The breaking strain of Natural Gut is around 135lbs; that's a straight pull. Put it in a frame, and it will be a lot lower due to friction, bend, and angle of the grommets. Therefore, measuring a straight piece of string doesn't replicate what happens when stringing it.

 

[Rabbit]

@uk_skippy now that is a great contribution!!

 

[uk_skippy]

I have completed a further experiment.

I strung 2 identical racquets, Babolat Flow recreational racquet, 16x19 pattern, with Babolat N.Vy synthetic gut string at 55lbs.

The 1st racquet (rqt 1) was strung using a delayed method. After every pull I waited until the machine beeped a second time. The 1st beep is when the tension-head initial reaches the desired tension. The time between each beep is 1 minute. Time taken to string the racquet ~40minutes.

The 2nd racquet (rqt 2) was strung using a normal method and therefore took ~17 minutes.

DT was measured using an ERT directly after each racquet was strung, and then 24 hours later.

Racquet 1 had an initial DT of 41, and a DT of 40 after 24 hours; racquet 2 had an initial DT of 42, and a DT of 40 after 24 hours. FYI, an ERT reading has a tolerance of +/- 1

Conclusion

For this string, tension, frame there is no difference between how quickly the racquet was strung. The DT readings are within the acceptable tolerances, and backs up the conclusion

In isolation, this experiment confirms the that speed doesn't affect the tension/DT drop both after initial stringing and after 24 hours. However, due to the number of types of strings available and the choice of tension for each player, this experiment would need to repeated for different strings & tensions. But this experiment lays a foundation for what would be expected.

 

[Rabbit]

@uk_skippy, hmmm let's see.

1. Did you by chance use a dowel, old-fashioned clothes pin, or quiche pan in any element of the stringing? That could make a difference.
2. You say an ERT was used to measure DT. Shouldn't you have used Racquet Tune which involves the use of a Sharpie, Phillips Head Screwdriver (gotta be a Phillips), or knee hammer (if you're a medical professional) to measure tension?
3. You say that the time between beeps was 1 minute. Was your machine chronologically calibrated using GMT prior to the experiment? If so, was the calibration done multiple times to ensure replicability (there's a word you don't see often)?
4. Just to be certain, you were in the same hemisphere when stringing these two rackets as @Irvin ?

In summary then your contention is that stringing rackets is not an art form or science, it's a repeatable process that is labor intensive and requires some basic skills and attention to detail from the operator? More of a craft than a profession?

 

[uk_skippy]

@uk_skippy, hmmm let's see.

1. Did you by chance use a dowel, old-fashioned clothes pin, or quiche pan in any element of the stringing? That could make a difference. I Have none of this items.
2. You say an ERT was used to measure DT. Shouldn't you have used Racquet Tune which involves the use of a Sharpie, Phillips Head Screwdriver (gotta be a Phillips), or knee hammer (if you're a medical professional) to measure tension? I have racquet tune, but have misplaced my sledgehammer
   
3. You say that the time between beeps was 1 minute. Was your machine chronologically calibrated using GMT prior to the experiment? If so, was the calibration done multiple times to ensure replicability (there's a word you don't see often)? We are currently using BST here in the UK, but I did check it with the speaking clock
   
4. Just to be certain, you were in the same hemisphere when stringing these two rackets as @Irvin ? I believe so.

In summary then your contention is that stringing rackets is not an art form or science, it's a repeatable process that is labor intensive and requires some basic skills and attention to detail from the operator? More of a craft than a profession?

My answers in bold

Racquet stringing is a repeatable process where the key goal is consistency. The skill is being able to replicate it time after time to a consistent level. My profession uses that skill/craft.

 

[Rabbit]

@uk_skippy if I could borrower your vernacular "Well done!"

Seriously, I always look forward to your contributions and value your opinions greatly. You are certainly someone who not only has been there but is there and knows his s hyte. (Unlike others who dial in a Chrissie Hynde)

 

[MAX PLY]

Racquet stringing is a repeatable process where the key goal is consistency. The skill is being able to replicate it time after time to a consistent level. My profession uses that skill/craft.

And that, folks, is indeed what proper stringing is all about! Thanks for your contributions, Paul--they are always enjoyable and informative.

 

[grhcan99]

Am I reading this right? Ref. tension of 55 producing a much lower DT of 40/41 DT? All of my Racquet Tune measurements have always produced a higher DT than the ref. tension eg. Ref43->DT48, Ref52->DT60, etc. Is Racquet Tune flawed? Do I need to get an ERT?

 

[MathieuR]

@uk_skippy , chapeau!

It is not what I would have expected, but you have clearly proved your point.

 

[Irvin]

My answers in bold

Racquet stringing is a repeatable process where the key goal is consistency. The skill is being able to replicate it time after time to a consistent level. My profession uses that skill/craft.

That is a very true statement and I doubt anyone will argue with you about that but if I am using an eCP like a Babolat Star 5 the tension varies by about 2/10 of a pound depending on when I clamp the string. If I am using a DW machine the tension varies by a small amount depending on the angle of the DW arm. If I am using a LO machine the tension will be exactly the same every single time I tension a string. So, getting back on track to the original question, why use a constant pull (eCP or DW but as far as I know always and eCP) as opposed to a LO machine?

ANSWER: If you want to string on the at Wimbledon Stringing Team you will use the machine the machine the team provides (or go home.) What do you think would happen, if you brought you Star 5 to string with? What would happen if all stringers brought their favorite / sponsor's machine?

EDIT: I know there is a better answer than use this machine or go home but I think the OP wants to hear it.

 

[Rabbit]

Am I reading this right? Ref. tension of 55 producing a much lower DT of 40/41 DT? All of my Racquet Tune measurements have always produced a higher DT than the ref. tension eg. Ref43->DT48, Ref52->DT60, etc. Is Racquet Tune flawed? Do I need to get an ERT?

I have both and trust the ERT more. There are too many variables for me with RT as readings will vary with ambient noise, the implement used to strike the string bed, distance from the string bed, and distance from the listening device. The ERT evens cautions the user in the instruction manual to ensure the device is placed at the same main/cross intersection each time it's used to produce consistent results.

For what you pay for it, RT is OK, but if you want consistency, I don't see how it can beat an ERT.

 

[grhcan99]

I have both and trust the ERT more. There are too many variables for me with RT as readings will vary with ambient noise, the implement used to strike the string bed, distance from the string bed, and distance from the listening device. The ERT evens cautions the user in the instruction manual to ensure the device is placed at the same main/cross intersection each time it's used to produce consistent results.

For what you pay for it, RT is OK, but if you want consistency, I don't see how it can beat an ERT.

Understood. Next toy is the ERT Too bad Washington just started charging sales taxes. It's gonna dampen my impulses a bit but I think an ERT is a worthy investment.

Just one more question and sorry for temporarily deviating from the subject. So assuming I use an ERT correctly, should I expect a lower DT from Ref tension as a rule? I don't usually monitor DT. I only did it a few times in the past out of curiosity. Once I got the right tension I stopped monitoring and just go by feel to determine when to restring. But I thought I've read here that DT should always be higher.

 

[Rabbit]

@grhcan99, a lower reading on the DT when compared to the reference tension has been my experience, yes. And truthfully, I don't use mine as much anymore. I, like you, go by feel on when it's time to restring of when the string breaks as has been the case for the last several months (I'm not getting a ton of life out of a string job again...).

 

[Chotobaka]

I have completed a further experiment.

I strung 2 identical racquets, Babolat Flow recreational racquet, 16x19 pattern, with Babolat N.Vy synthetic gut string at 55lbs.

The 1st racquet (rqt 1) was strung using a delayed method. After every pull I waited until the machine beeped a second time. The 1st beep is when the tension-head initial reaches the desired tension. The time between each beep is 1 minute. Time taken to string the racquet ~40minutes.

The 2nd racquet (rqt 2) was strung using a normal method and therefore took ~17 minutes.

DT was measured using an ERT directly after each racquet was strung, and then 24 hours later.

Racquet 1 had an initial DT of 41, and a DT of 40 after 24 hours; racquet 2 had an initial DT of 42, and a DT of 40 after 24 hours. FYI, an ERT reading has a tolerance of +/- 1

Conclusion

For this string, tension, frame there is no difference between how quickly the racquet was strung. The DT readings are within the acceptable tolerances, and backs up the conclusion

In isolation, this experiment confirms the that speed doesn't affect the tension/DT drop both after initial stringing and after 24 hours. However, due to the number of types of strings available and the choice of tension for each player, this experiment would need to repeated for different strings & tensions. But this experiment lays a foundation for what would be expected.

Thanks for taking the time to do this -- that is going above and beyond.

 

[Kevo]

I have completed a further experiment.

I strung 2 identical racquets, Babolat Flow recreational racquet, 16x19 pattern, with Babolat N.Vy synthetic gut string at 55lbs.

Nice, and thanks for doing that and posting results.

I would like to see a similar experiment done with a poly string. I find syn guts to be much better about maintaining their resiliency. I suspect that a poly might give different results depending on reference tension used.

Unfortunately polys are so varied in the composition that the results could be quite different with different examples of poly. I don't expect the syn gut would change much between different types of syn guts.

Maybe do something like ALU power that everyone has probably tried if they use poly and test it in at least two different tension ranges. Maybe 45lbs and 65lbs. If ambitious, add in 55lbs. as well.

I totally understand if you don't want to take this up as it's quite a bit of work. But if you or someone else does I would love to see the results.

 

[Rabbit]

I think this has gone about as far as it can without becoming (even more) painful.