Why did Becker Continue to be a top player on carpet but terrible at Wimbledon?

TTMR

Hall of Fame
Seems odd that Becker continued to be one of the best carpet players well past the mid-90s, yet no good at Wimbledon after the 80s. Was there just a stronger field at Wimbledon? Some of the carpet events he won were very selective and would have had tougher matchups than some of the 90s Wimbledon draws.
 

AlienBug

New User
Starting in 1990 at Wimbledon, Becker went finals, finals, quarters, semis, semis, finals, third round, quarters, fourth round.

Granted no wins but not exactly what I would call “terrible at Wimbledon”
 
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Mustard

Bionic Poster
LOL. Terrible at Wimbledon? He played the event 15 times, and reached the quarter finals or better 11 times, winning it 3 times.

1984: R32 (damaged ankle ligaments)
1985: Won
1986: Won
1987: R64 (his worst Wimbledon result)
1988: RU
1989: Won
1990: RU
1991: RU
1992: QF
1993: SF
1994: SF
1995: RU
1996: R32 (a bizarre wrist injury during the first point of first set tiebreak, when he had been second favourite to win the event behind Sampras)
1997: QF
1999: R16

Yeah, terrible.
 

Gizo

Legend
It's still crazy to think that Becker was seriously considering retirement at the end of the 1989 season and the Davis Cup final (when he produced among the best tennis of his career to destroy Edberg and Wilander with a 5 set doubles win sandwiched in-between) at the age of just 21 / 22. The euphoria after winning the US Open title quickly passed, and he felt flat and increasingly unenthusiastic about the grind of the tour.

Then again had he retired, I think there's a good chance that he would have regretted it and made a comeback within a couple of years.

In terms of 'terrible' results at Wimbledon in the 90s (clearly not the case as others have said), it does continue to amaze me that so many tennis fans act as if major titles can just be purchased at the supermarket.
 

BorgTheGOAT

Legend
He reached three finals in the 90s losing against Edberg, GOATING Stich and GOATING Sampras. His other losses were against Sampras (2x), Agassi, Goran and Rafter who played the best grass match of his career (and Boris basically came back from being retired). The only unnecessary loss was in 96 while being injured.
 

Cashman

Hall of Fame
Starting in 1990 at Wimbledon, Becker went finals, finals, quarters, semis, semis, finals, third round, quarters, fourth round.

Granted no wins but not exactly what I would call “terrible at Wimbledon”
Plus most of the time he only ever lost to the eventual champion
 

Mustard

Bionic Poster
It's still crazy to think that Becker was seriously considering retirement at the end of the 1989 season and the Davis Cup final (when he produced among the best tennis of his career to destroy Edberg and Wilander with a 5 set doubles win sandwiched in-between) at the age of just 21 / 22. The euphoria after winning the US Open title quickly passed, and he felt flat and increasingly unenthusiastic about the grind of the tour.

Then again had he retired, I think there's a good chance that he would have regretted it and made a comeback within a couple of years.
Boris knew that he was beginning to have some problems, i.e. usually needing pills to get to sleep, the constant pressure of expectation, and his problems would be harder to get rid of if he played on. By 1990-92, he knew he had a real problem with sleeping pill addiction. He almost slept in the 1990 Wimbledon final! By 1992, I think he was going cold turkey and had insomnia for a while and his results suffered for most of the year, although he won Olympic doubles gold with Michael Stich in Barcelona. By late 1992, Boris seemed to have got over the pill problem, more than 5 years after he had started taking them.
 

jrepac

Hall of Fame
Starting in 1990 at Wimbledon, Becker went finals, finals, quarters, semis, semis, finals, third round, quarters, fourth round.

Granted no wins but not exactly what I would call “terrible at Wimbledon”
not so bad, given the Sampras era
 

dryeagle

Rookie
Played Sampras at Wimbledon in 93, 95 and 97, won 2 out of 11 sets and never broke serve. Indoors between 1994-1996, H2H was 4-4 vs Sampras.

No, he was not terrible at Wimbledon but was a step behind Pete. But played him straight up during fall indoor season during same period.
 

JasonZ

Hall of Fame
Played Sampras at Wimbledon in 93, 95 and 97, won 2 out of 11 sets and never broke serve. Indoors between 1994-1996, H2H was 4-4 vs Sampras.

No, he was not terrible at Wimbledon but was a step behind Pete. But played him straight up during fall indoor season during same period.

sampras still won their 2 most important indoor meetings, the 1994 and 1996 wtf finals.
 

BorgTheGOAT

Legend
Played Sampras at Wimbledon in 93, 95 and 97, won 2 out of 11 sets and never broke serve. Indoors between 1994-1996, H2H was 4-4 vs Sampras.

No, he was not terrible at Wimbledon but was a step behind Pete. But played him straight up during fall indoor season during same period.
Yes but to be fair, while peak wise Pete is arguably the carpet GOAT, consistency wise he was not quite as dominant as in Wimbledon but had the tendency to lose some matches here and there outside of the big ones (in all his 5 YEC wins he has a RR loss, lost against Muster in Essen etc). Becker’s wins against Pete are mostly from RR matches or tournaments outside the YEC, in YEC finals he is 0-2.
 

urban

Legend
Becker since 1989/90 had stamina problems with long tournaments and best of 5 matches. He never had the best legs, and needed much physical and mental energy for his power style. Many long matches in early rounds or middle rounds against the likes of a Pioline or Wheaton took too much energy from him and he often ran out of gas in the finals, where he looked flat and tired. He was in better physical shape for a while in the mid 1990s. But he always was best in shorter tournaments and in Davis Cup format,, where he only had to play 2 best of 5 matches. Pilic often left him out of DC doubles to save his energy for the second singles rubber. Several times after a Davis Cup tie, he was out for a while to reload his batteries.
 

JasonZ

Hall of Fame
Barely. And in 96 had to play the best match of his career to get by BB that day.

right after the match, becker said it was the best match ever played. and he still lost against sampras. so peak sampras indoors > peak becker indoors.
 

Dan Lobb

G.O.A.T.
Boris knew that he was beginning to have some problems, i.e. usually needing pills to get to sleep, the constant pressure of expectation, and his problems would be harder to get rid of if he played on. By 1990-92, he knew he had a real problem with sleeping pill addiction. He almost slept in the 1990 Wimbledon final! By 1992, I think he was going cold turkey and had insomnia for a while and his results suffered for most of the year, although he won Olympic doubles gold with Michael Stich in Barcelona. By late 1992, Boris seemed to have got over the pill problem, more than 5 years after he had started taking them.
There were problems with lifestyle, and even at his best Becker never reached world no. 1 for any year.
 

Dan Lobb

G.O.A.T.
Becker since 1989/90 had stamina problems with long tournaments and best of 5 matches. He never had the best legs, and needed much physical and mental energy for his power style. Many long matches in early rounds or middle rounds against the likes of a Pioline or Wheaton took too much energy from him and he often ran out of gas in the finals, where he looked flat and tired. He was in better physical shape for a while in the mid 1990s. But he always was best in shorter tournaments and in Davis Cup format,, where he only had to play 2 best of 5 matches. Pilic often left him out of DC doubles to save his energy for the second singles rubber. Several times after a Davis Cup tie, he was out for a while to reload his batteries.
Becker since 1989/90 had stamina problems with long tournaments and best of 5 matches. He never had the best legs, and needed much physical and mental energy for his power style. Many long matches in early rounds or middle rounds against the likes of a Pioline or Wheaton took too much energy from him and he often ran out of gas in the finals, where he looked flat and tired. He was in better physical shape for a while in the mid 1990s. But he always was best in shorter tournaments and in Davis Cup format,, where he only had to play 2 best of 5 matches. Pilic often left him out of DC doubles to save his energy for the second singles rubber. Several times after a Davis Cup tie, he was out for a while to reload his batteries.
That sounds like the Becker we knew...never a gazelle around the court, needing to dive for volleys.
 

TTMR

Hall of Fame
Yes, that's the career head-to-head. 12-7 to Sampras. 7-6 to Becker indoors, 6-0 to Sampras outdoors.

This kind of demonstrates my point. In the 90s, Becker was a carpet specialist. That's a very impressive resume against peak Sampras.
 

UnderratedSlam

G.O.A.T.
Starting in 1990 at Wimbledon, Becker went finals, finals, quarters, semis, semis, finals, third round, quarters, fourth round.

Granted no wins but not exactly what I would call “terrible at Wimbledon”
Terrible = doesn't win it

For some people at least.

Also, comparing B03 with B05 is kinda strange. Perhaps Becker struggled more with fitness in his later career years and won more easily the BO3 events.

W 1996 he was a top favourite to win, but had a bad wrist injury.
 

timnz

Legend
Seems odd that Becker continued to be one of the best carpet players well past the mid-90s, yet no good at Wimbledon after the 80s. Was there just a stronger field at Wimbledon? Some of the carpet events he won were very selective and would have had tougher matchups than some of the 90s Wimbledon draws.
Made 3
Seems odd that Becker continued to be one of the best carpet players well past the mid-90s, yet no good at Wimbledon after the 80s. Was there just a stronger field at Wimbledon? Some of the carpet events he won were very selective and would have had tougher matchups than some of the 90s Wimbledon draws.
I hardly think that making 3 finals (1990, 1991, 1995) is being 'terrible'. Sometimes it is not about your level but your opponents. In 1990 Edberg barely won in 5 sets, in 1991 Stich was playing inspired tennis and 1995 it was against Sampras, who brought things up to a new level. He was was most unlucky in 1996. I feel he had a chance to win Wimbledon again but he injured his wrist. The reason I think that is that he won the Australian Open on slow hard court in January and once he healed his wrist in the late part of the year he had a superior H2H over Sampras during that period. Also won the Grand Slam Cup (ITF’s season end final) So in 1996 outside of Injury he was in top form.
 
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UnderratedSlam

G.O.A.T.
Lendl blows doors off Pete's stats on carpet. He won 34 tournaments on carpet, Sampras won 16. And the the 2 matches they played on carpet, Ivan won both, in Milan in 1990 and Philly in 1991.
You shouldn't have said this.

Now there will be 15 threads comparing Lendl prime vs Sampras peak.
 

BorgTheGOAT

Legend
Lendl blows doors off Pete's stats on carpet. He won 34 tournaments on carpet, Sampras won 16. And the the 2 matches they played on carpet, Ivan won both, in Milan in 1990 and Philly in 1991.
You should have read and quoted my whole post before jumping on it. I said peak wise Pete is arguably carpet GOAT but he has several odd losses especially in smaller tournaments. Lendl - among Mac - is arguably the most successful player on carpet, I give you that (9 consecutive YEC finals are tough to beat), but his is not what I was talking about. I cannot see any version of Lendl beating Pete from 96 and 99 YEC final or from the 97 GSC match against Rafter.
 

thrust

Legend
Played Sampras at Wimbledon in 93, 95 and 97, won 2 out of 11 sets and never broke serve. Indoors between 1994-1996, H2H was 4-4 vs Sampras.

No, he was not terrible at Wimbledon but was a step behind Pete. But played him straight up during fall indoor season during same period.
Perhaps it was the indoor surfaces and other conditions that suited Becker's game more than grass or hard courts, at that time?
 

travlerajm

Talk Tennis Guru
You shouldn't have said this.

Now there will be 15 threads comparing Lendl prime vs Sampras peak.
I recall watching Sampras beat Lendl in the summer of 1992. I remember being unsure at the time if Sampras was really good, because mainly I felt sad that Lendl was clearly on the decline.
 

Mustard

Bionic Poster
Yes but to be fair, while peak wise Pete is arguably the carpet GOAT, consistency wise he was not quite as dominant as in Wimbledon but had the tendency to lose some matches here and there outside of the big ones (in all his 5 YEC wins he has a RR loss, lost against Muster in Essen etc). Becker’s wins against Pete are mostly from RR matches or tournaments outside the YEC, in YEC finals he is 0-2.
The 1996 Stuttgart Indoor final (a Super 9 final) Becker won in 5 sets against Sampras.

Very interesting. Sampras vs Becker at Wimbledon, Pete leads 3-0
And Becker never broke the Sampras serve at Wimbledon, despite winning 2 out of 11 sets. Sampras broke the Becker serve 12 times over the 3 matches.
 
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thrust

Legend
Lendl blows doors off Pete's stats on carpet. He won 34 tournaments on carpet, Sampras won 16. And the the 2 matches they played on carpet, Ivan won both, in Milan in 1990 and Philly in 1991.
Pete was not at his peak level in 90-91. Though Pete did win the 90 USO he did not win his next slams, Wimbledon and USO, until 93
 

travlerajm

Talk Tennis Guru
Starting in 1990 at Wimbledon, Becker went finals, finals, quarters, semis, semis, finals, third round, quarters, fourth round.

Granted no wins but not exactly what I would call “terrible at Wimbledon”
Yes. But that stretch started with age 22, which should have been his peak.

It is indeed interesting that he was relatively superior as a 17yo man-child. Maybe he was simply more focused on the tennis as a teenager and too distracted after he peeked into his bank account as a playboy in his 20s?
 

BorgTheGOAT

Legend
The 1996 Stuttgart Indoor final (a Super 9 final) Becker won in 5 sets against Sampras.
I know that of course therefore I wrote “mostly”. Other than the Stuttgart final, Becker won three YEC RR matches, two semis in Stockholm in 90 and 94 as well as a Quarter in 91. Sampras also won their Paris final in 95 (best of five), which means he leads Becker 3-1 in finals on carpet. I still stand by what I said that peak-wise Sampras was better even though Boris leads him 7-6 overall on carpet.
 

TheFifthSet

Legend
Becker’s serving numbers improved indoors far beyond what the change in conditions would predict (grass, career ace % - 11.1 / carpet, career ace % - 16.5. +5.4 on carpet, Ivanisevic was +2.6, Krajicek +2.5, Sampras +0.3). He was a terminator indoors.
 
H

Herald

Guest
Becker’s serving numbers improved indoors far beyond what the change in conditions would predict (grass, career ace % - 11.1 / carpet, career ace % - 16.5. +5.4 on carpet, Ivanisevic was +2.6, Krajicek +2.5, Sampras +0.3). He was a terminator indoors.
Peak Uncle Bob. Unfortunately PETE was the T-1000, minus the losing part.
 
Starting in 1990 at Wimbledon, Becker went finals, finals, quarters, semis, semis, finals, third round, quarters, fourth round.

Granted no wins but not exactly what I would call “terrible at Wimbledon”

Yeah I did not understand this thread at all after reading the title. BTW Becker was stopped by only Sampras at Wimbledon in 93, 95, and 97. h he beat peak Agassi in the semis. He lost to Stich in the finals in 91, lost to eventual winner Agassi in 5 sets in the 92 quarters, and lost to a zoning Ivanisevic in the 94 semis.

He couldn't beat Sampras in a big match anywhere by that point, not indoors either. He won the 95 YEC since Chang took out Sampras in the semis. He lost in an amazing match in the 96 final, but Sampras was out of his reach anywhere in a big match 93 onwards. He could beat in a Masters final, a 500 tournament, or even a RR non elimination match at the YEC, but that was it.
 
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