Why did Djokovic choke away so many slam finals and semi finals from 2012-2014?

Jokervich

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There are a lot of threads on TW forums about Djokovic at the moment, and rightly so. He is by far the best player in the world at the moment - head and shoulders above his competition. However, it wasn't always this way. His slam record is surprisingly poor during the years he should have been winning many more. From FO12 to USO14, he won just 2 slams, losing in 5 finals, 3 semi finals and 1 quarter final. He choked away matches to Nadal and Federer, a USO semi final to Nishikori, and even losing twice to Murray ffs. He was even close to choking away Wimbledon 2014, with that match going to 5 sets.

I want to know why he had such a poor conversion rate into slam titles during this period and how he got his act together to dominate 2015 after this rather dry 3 year period. And do you believe he should have won more between 2012 and 2014?
 
He didn't choke, he was beaten fair and square.

And no, he's won what he has won. He's lost what he's supposed to lose. Things happen for a reason, and Djokovic's career trajectory is one of those things.
 
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No idea what was the reason behind those losses. He won 4 finals in a row, then won 1 out of next 5, and now won 4 out of last 5. The only time he was inches away was at FO 2013 which was a final before final.
 
In several of those matches he lost, he was frankly just outplayed fair and square by opponents who were playing extremely good tennis and were all time greats themselves. RG 2012, Wimbledon 2012, RG 2013, USO 2013 (the only one that is perhaps debatable, but Nadal was playing stunning tennis throughout that whole US swing, sweeping all 3 big events), and RG 2014 all come to mind. He was completely outplayed in all of those matches (bar the one I mentioned). Would you really expect him to beat Nadal playing at/close to his best on clay or Federer turning back the clock and playing stunning grass court tennis? That's not logical, Djokovic isn't unbeatable and Nadal and Federer are on at least the same plane of talent as Djokovic. There were matches that he could have won or at least played noticeably below his abilities though. Djokovic was clearly lackluster in Wimbledon 2013 for whatever reason (the pressure after RG, the crowd, etc.), and the USO final in 2012 was a strange match overall from both players but to Murray's credit he was able to deal with conditions better.
 
For every slam match Djokovic has choked since 2011, he has had a comeback win. Choking the US Open final in 2013 evened out by Tsonga RG 2012. Choking RG 2013 evened out by Fed US 2011. Such is life, it evens out and you cannot always get it your way..
I would rather say it was USO 2011 evened out by USO 2013, because the match he lost happened after.
The RG 2012 escape was really unexpected, but for the net touch in 2013 to be evened out he should win RG after a very tight win.
 
He was probably back on the gluten-rich pizzas and kebabs during that period. IMO that's the only possible reason to account for him losing to the likes of Federer, Nadal, Nishikori and TWICE to a scrub like Murray! :eek:

As soon as Boris 'Call-Me-Mr-Healthy' Becker came on board he forced Novak to put a stop to all that nonsense and forced him back onto his gluten-free diet and ordered him to cut down on the booze and the birds! :)

The rest, as they say, is history!!! ;)
 
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Can't have it all otherwise we'd be calling his opponents at those finals chokers too if Novak won them all. If he was to win the matches he lost between 2012 - 2014, there's no telling if he would have had 2015's success.


Things have a way of working out at the end.
 
He was probably back on the gluten-rich pizzas and kebabs during that period. IMO that's the only possible reason to account for him losing to the likes of Federer, Nadal, Nishikori and TWICE to a scrub like Murray! :eek:

Yes, Murray especially.
 
Just a couple of points made the current standings.
If we would project Novak and how it could have been better... If just a couple of points were played and ended differently at RG and USO 2013 he and Nadal would have had 12 Slams each.
But, if he never hit that all-time greatest return against Federer at USO 2011, he would have been without USO until this year. Or if he did not manage to save BPs vs Stan in the 5th set at 4-4 at AO 2013 he would have gone that year Slamless.
We should all be happy with how things have turned out so far.
 
There are a lot of threads on TW forums about Djokovic at the moment, and rightly so. He is by far the best player in the world at the moment - head and shoulders above his competition. However, it wasn't always this way. His slam record is surprisingly poor during the years he should have been winning many more. From FO12 to USO14, he won just 2 slams, losing in 5 finals, 3 semi finals and 1 quarter final. He choked away matches to Nadal and Federer, a USO semi final to Nishikori, and even losing twice to Murray ffs. He was even close to choking away Wimbledon 2014, with that match going to 5 sets.

I want to know why he had such a poor conversion rate into slam titles during this period and how he got his act together to dominate 2015 after this rather dry 3 year period. And do you believe he should have won more between 2012 and 2014?
How do you know he chocked these matches? Perhaps the other player simply played better on the day? Knowing the results ie loss in semi-'s or quarters - gives you absolutely no information at all about whether a player chocked or not.

"He choked away matches to Nadal and Federer" - you realise that these two are better than average players right? Why assume he chocked losing to them?
 
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There are a lot of threads on TW forums about Djokovic at the moment, and rightly so. He is by far the best player in the world at the moment - head and shoulders above his competition. However, it wasn't always this way. His slam record is surprisingly poor during the years he should have been winning many more. From FO12 to USO14, he won just 2 slams, losing in 5 finals, 3 semi finals and 1 quarter final. He choked away matches to Nadal and Federer, a USO semi final to Nishikori, and even losing twice to Murray ffs. He was even close to choking away Wimbledon 2014, with that match going to 5 sets.

I want to know why he had such a poor conversion rate into slam titles during this period and how he got his act together to dominate 2015 after this rather dry 3 year period. And do you believe he should have won more between 2012 and 2014?

Under pressure he isnt as strong as Nadal or Federer. His best isnt as good as Fedal hence his inferior record. Djokovic needs to win a Major next season to be considered truly dominant. He has only won a Major 4 years consecutively so needs a couple of more years doing it.
 
Under pressure he isnt as strong as Nadal or Federer. His best isnt as good as Fedal hence his inferior record. Djokovic needs to win a Major next season to be considered truly dominant. He has only won a Major 4 years consecutively so needs a couple of more years doing it.
5 consecutive years. Two 3 Slam seasons as well. He is very dominant.
 
It happens ebs and flows. His 2011 form started to go 4th set ao 2012. FO 2012 nadal took the momentum of their rivalry. US open is the only one he should have bagged during that time. He sucked in the wind and started with the negative attitude after getting Murray on the ropes. Then things started going downhill mentally in the finals after that. That Time Frame Would of been a success if he bagged that us open 2012.
 
Under pressure he isnt as strong as Nadal or Federer. His best isnt as good as Fedal hence his inferior record. Djokovic needs to win a Major next season to be considered truly dominant. He has only won a Major 4 years consecutively so needs a couple of more years doing it.

Nadal is surely clutch player and all time greatest under presure (well at least he used to be).

Federer is somewhat different story. Different match dynamics.
Players need to hold firm early in a match against Federer if they ever have any chance to win against him.

He hates pressure. He wants to be pressure free as early as possible.
Federer is such a splinter. He draws 1st blood and run away with match.
Djokovic needs to pressure Federer right from the get go and hold steady.
Whenever Djokovic fails to hold steady 1st or 2nd set against Federer, he loses.
 
It happens ebs and flows. His 2011 form started to go 4th set ao 2012. FO 2012 nadal took the momentum of their rivalry. US open is the only one he should have bagged during that time. He sucked in the wind and started with the negative attitude after getting Murray on the ropes. Then things started going downhill mentally in the finals after that. That Time Frame Would of been a success if he bagged that us open 2012.

Lol....why should he have got a negative attitude after getting Murray on the ropes? Enquiring minds are eager to know! :D
 
Lol....why should he have got a negative attitude after getting Murray on the ropes? Enquiring minds are eager to know! :D

Ferrer crap weather and wind. Murray needed to send David a rolex watch for christmas and an all expense paid vaca with the family to show his undying gratitude.
 
He didnt choke per say in many of those. That is the wrong word. In many of them he simply underperformed, or was outplayed.

RG 2012- Nadal on fire that season, one of his best clay seasons. Djokovic struggling after his grandfather's death. Realistically this one is a write off, was never winning this one.

Wimbledon 2012- Played a pretty mediocre to average match against Federer in the semis. I think he even had many more groundstroke unforced errors than Federer which is kind of comical. Federer in good form, not quite as good as the final but good enough. Pretty straightforward.

U.S Open 2012- Struggled with the conditions more than Murray it seemed. Was a shame as this was the first time since the winter hard court season he looked to really be back in form.

French 2013- Was outplayed. The match stats clearly show that. Still might have stolen the win if it wasnt for that overhead, but this is a shot he had trouble with until recently and finally seems to have fixed completely. He also blew an overhead on match point down against Nadal at the 08 Olympics and some other crucial times. Maybe this was the moment he decided to work on it in practice to master the shot since I dont recall any problems since.

Wimbledon 2013- Just a horrible performance. Not sure what to speak to this. Nothing against Murray who played well and could well have won anyway, but wow this was just bad. No way a choke though, just a really bad day for whatever reason.

U.S Open 2013- This is the first one he might have "choked" in the true sense. He got himself in a potential winning position late in the 3rd set and blew it.

Australian 2014- Tough match, could have gone either way like most of his matches with Stan in slams. Usually he wins out in these, today he didnt.

French 2014- Was sick which undoubtably affected his performance, too bad as Nadal was beatable here.

U.S Open 2014- Came up surprisingly flat against a very in form Nishikori who played maybe his best match ever to date.

Honestly U.S Open 2013 is really the only true "choke" with what happened at the end of the 3rd set. The others whether through his opponents play, his own, or whatever factor, he just wasnt the better player on court that day regardless.

Djokovic was never a Novotna or Sabatini like choker. What is more correct to say is from 2012-2014 he had trouble bringing his very best when it mattered most, outside of Australia. He also was not able to carry the full confidence and momentum of 2011 forward, and was having trouble living up the pressure he maybe put on himself to duplicate 2011. That is a totally different thing than choking though IMO.
 
Ferrer crap weather and wind. Murray needed to send David a rolex watch for christmas and an all expense paid vaca with the family to show his undying gratitude.

Lol...yeah because Daveed is SUCH a threat to Djoko and Murray at the Slams, isn't he? They both tremble with fear every time they see him in their half of the draw! :p
 
Lol...yeah because Daveed is SUCH a threat to Djoko and Murray at the Slams, isn't he? They both tremble with fear every time they see him in their half of the draw! :p

Until this year Ferrer is someone Murray would have never wanted to see on the other side at RG. Their rivalry has been pretty straight forward. Ferrer on clay, Murray almost always everywhere else. However now that Murray has improved further on clay, and old Ferrer has predictably declined (on clay and elsewhere), Murray should win most future clay meetings too now. It would have been interesting to see them play on clay in 2011.

Ferrer also owned Djokovic on clay prior to 2011 interestingly.
 
He didnt choke per say in many of those. That is the wrong word. In many of them he simply underperformed, or was outplayed.

RG 2012- Nadal on fire that season, one of his best clay seasons. Djokovic struggling after his grandfather's death. Realistically this one is a write off, was never winning this one.

Wimbledon 2012- Played a pretty mediocre to average match against Federer in the semis. I think he even had many more groundstroke unforced errors than Federer which is kind of comical. Federer in good form, not quite as good as the final but good enough. Pretty straightforward.

U.S Open 2012- Struggled with the conditions more than Murray it seemed. Was a shame as this was the first time since the winter hard court season he looked to really be back in form.

French 2013- Was outplayed. The match stats clearly show that. Still might have stolen the win if it wasnt for that overhead, but this is a shot he had trouble with until recently and finally seems to have fixed completely. He also blew an overhead on match point down against Nadal at the 08 Olympics and some other crucial times. Maybe this was the moment he decided to work on it in practice to master the shot since I dont recall any problems since.

Wimbledon 2013- Just a horrible performance. Not sure what to speak to this. Nothing against Murray who played well and could well have won anyway, but wow this was just bad. No way a choke though, just a really bad day for whatever reason.

U.S Open 2013- This is the first one he might have "choked" in the true sense. He got himself in a potential winning position late in the 3rd set and blew it.

Australian 2014- Tough match, could have gone either way like most of his matches with Stan in slams. Usually he wins out in these, today he didnt.

French 2014- Was sick which undoubtably affected his performance, too bad as Nadal was beatable here.

U.S Open 2014- Came up surprisingly flat against a very in form Nishikori who played maybe his best match ever to date.

Honestly U.S Open 2013 is really the only true "choke" with what happened at the end of the 3rd set. The others whether through his opponents play, his own, or whatever factor, he just wasnt the better player on court that day regardless.

Djokovic was never a Novotna or Sabatini like choker. What is more correct to say is from 2012-2014 he had trouble bringing his very best when it mattered most, outside of Australia. He also was not able to carry the full confidence and momentum of 2011 forward, and was having trouble living up the pressure he maybe put on himself to duplicate 2011. That is a totally different thing than choking though IMO.
AO 2014 was probably the one I regret the most alongside RG 2013. Those were probably the only two times he ever lost a match while having a break in the final set. At AO it hurts more, big chance that he would have had 5 titles in a row if he did not lose that. Still, you can't will them all.
 
He didnt choke per say in many of those. That is the wrong word. In many of them he simply underperformed, or was outplayed.

...

Australian 2014- Tough match, could have gone either way like most of his matches with Stan in slams. Usually he wins out in these, today he didnt.

U.S Open 2014- Came up surprisingly flat against a very in form Nishikori who played maybe his best match ever to date.

Agree for the most part. Although, those two matches above I think he should have won. Wasn't playing his best game, but probably was a better player in both matches. Just look at total points won, break points etc. You could say he kind of choked the most important points. Still, no guarantee he would go and win the whole thing.
 
Lol...yeah because Daveed is SUCH a threat to Djoko and Murray at the Slams, isn't he? They both tremble with fear every time they see him in their half of the draw! :p

Ferrer and Djokovic were battling it out on Sunday 3 days straight of play while Murray chilled out in his hotel room playing playstation.
 
Ferrer and Djokovic were battling it out on Sunday 3 days straight of play while Murray chilled out in his hotel room playing playstation.

Battling it out? Djokovic won 1,4 and 2! I expect he was back home in time for a nice, hot bath and and took in one of the New York shows with Jelena and the team! :D
 
Umm he lost the first set 2-6. So real world reality with historic facts like the player who has the crappy schedule usually loses is not legit however a back surgery over 2 years ago is still used as an excuse every time said player loses. However when said player wins he is "Back". Then loses he is not back and the back injury is back.
 
Umm he lost the first set 2-6. So real world reality with historic facts like the player who has the crappy schedule usually loses is not legit however a back surgery over 2 years ago is still used as an excuse every time said player loses. However when said player wins he is "Back". Then loses he is not back and the back injury is back.

There are no excuses for losing a match unless a player is clearly injured and has to withdraw. Weather, conditions etc. are the same for both players. Scheduling can be unfair but is nearly always balanced out throughout the course of a career. If a player sets foot on court to play a match then he or she is declaring they are fit and ready to do so otherwise they should withdraw. End of.

My comments about the long-term effects of Murray's back injury and surgery are to do with his overall level over the season compared to before they happened. To the best of my knowledge I have never used it as an excuse for him losing any specific match except maybe a shock loss to a much lower ranked player shortly after he returned to the tour.
 
There are no excuses for losing a match unless a player is clearly injured and has to withdraw. Weather, conditions etc. are the same for both players. Scheduling can be unfair but is nearly always balanced out throughout the course of a career. If a player sets foot on court to play a match then he or she is declaring they are fit and ready to do so otherwise they should withdraw. End of.

My comments about the long-term effects of Murray's back injury and surgery are to do with his overall level over the season compared to before they happened. To the best of my knowledge I have never used it as an excuse for him losing any specific match except maybe a shock loss to a much lower ranked player shortly after he returned to the tour.

Murray has declined. :cool:
 
He should have won at least one FO and two more USO by now.
It's easy to play this should or shouldn't have won game.

He should have lost 2010 and 2011 USO semifinals(match points saved in the 4th set)
He should have lost 2012 AO final(missing easy bh put away when leading 4-2 in the fifth set)
He should have lost 2013 AO R4(bad line call that cost Stan a break and serve out for the match)
 
He didnt choke per say in many of those. That is the wrong word. In many of them he simply underperformed, or was outplayed.

RG 2012- Nadal on fire that season, one of his best clay seasons. Djokovic struggling after his grandfather's death. Realistically this one is a write off, was never winning this one.

Wimbledon 2012- Played a pretty mediocre to average match against Federer in the semis. I think he even had many more groundstroke unforced errors than Federer which is kind of comical. Federer in good form, not quite as good as the final but good enough. Pretty straightforward.

U.S Open 2012- Struggled with the conditions more than Murray it seemed. Was a shame as this was the first time since the winter hard court season he looked to really be back in form.

French 2013- Was outplayed. The match stats clearly show that. Still might have stolen the win if it wasnt for that overhead, but this is a shot he had trouble with until recently and finally seems to have fixed completely. He also blew an overhead on match point down against Nadal at the 08 Olympics and some other crucial times. Maybe this was the moment he decided to work on it in practice to master the shot since I dont recall any problems since.

Wimbledon 2013- Just a horrible performance. Not sure what to speak to this. Nothing against Murray who played well and could well have won anyway, but wow this was just bad. No way a choke though, just a really bad day for whatever reason.

U.S Open 2013- This is the first one he might have "choked" in the true sense. He got himself in a potential winning position late in the 3rd set and blew it.

Australian 2014- Tough match, could have gone either way like most of his matches with Stan in slams. Usually he wins out in these, today he didnt.

French 2014- Was sick which undoubtably affected his performance, too bad as Nadal was beatable here.

U.S Open 2014- Came up surprisingly flat against a very in form Nishikori who played maybe his best match ever to date.

Honestly U.S Open 2013 is really the only true "choke" with what happened at the end of the 3rd set. The others whether through his opponents play, his own, or whatever factor, he just wasnt the better player on court that day regardless.

Djokovic was never a Novotna or Sabatini like choker. What is more correct to say is from 2012-2014 he had trouble bringing his very best when it mattered most, outside of Australia. He also was not able to carry the full confidence and momentum of 2011 forward, and was having trouble living up the pressure he maybe put on himself to duplicate 2011. That is a totally different thing than choking though IMO.
Plus he played 3 sets a day before USO12 final, given the physicality of their matches, Nole withered in the end, he struglled with wind in first two sets but its not like he has never come back from 0-2 down. He beat the crap of Murray in set 3/4 and then was done physically.

7-6(10) 7-5 2-6 3-6 6-2. Props for Andy to take a 2-0 lead as he has never beaten Nole without taking 2-0 lead.

So, of all the matches he lost this and USO13 were winnable, from tennis standpoint.

Wimby13, wimby12 was just lower than usual performances. No way he was winning those matches playing the way he played.
 
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His most bad slam is USO because technically he is superior to all since USO11 and has lost 2 finals and a semi in those 5 years. I am sure that is most on his mind than AO14 or FO14
 
I am sure TW must have been filled with Nole ruling HC slams after his USO final/AO win between 2007/08. He did well in AO and should have done well in USO as well as was expected from him. Hopefully the disappointments are thing of past now.

WHEN BIG DOG PLAYS LIKE BIG DOG.
novak-djokovic-091315-getty-ftrjpg_17tet7ireqb6v1u5kit3yzf3za.jpg


PS the dude in blue is pumped, I mean in the audience.
 
Djokovic had some good competition in those matches. Nadal obviously way better than he was now, Federer in great form in Wimbledon 2012 (much better than 2015 imo) Murray who had more of an edge in big matches than he does now, Wawrinka who has a legit claim as one of the best AO performers in the last few years (gave Djokovic the hardest match in 2013 even though it was only 4th round)

Djokovic could have done better himself in some of those matches, but he was still a very successful player. Weaker competition and fine tuning of his own game means he doesn't really have that problem this year..
 
I agree he underperformed in Slam Finals during that period for various reasons but all of those weren't chokes really.

USO 2013- Yes, mentally collapsed. Lead third set 4-2. Had 3 BPs to serve for set. Outplayed Nadal for two sets only to gift one away. From being 4-2 up ended with winning just one game out of next 8.

Wimbledon 2013- Below average performance. Deserved to lose but sudden drop in form from SF to Final was inexplicable. A truly shameful straight set defeat to Murray who wasn't even playing anything better than his average.

USO 2012- Unlucky due to extreme windy conditions. He would been winner if there was roof four years ago.

RG 2012- Nadal had an upper hand on clay in that season.
 
Inconceivable isn't it? I mean, you could at least understand the odd loss to a future GOAT like Nishikori, couldn't you? :p
You should stop defending Murray in every single thread and get your head out his ass, because he really isn't that good. Last time I checked, 2 < 10 (and counting) slams, 2 < 14 slams and 2 < 17 slams. And please don't talk about his M1000 wins, no one apart from tennis forum nerds give a damn about those wins. ;)
 
You should stop defending Murray in every single thread and get your head out his ass, because he really isn't that good. Last time I checked, 2 < 10 (and counting) slams, 2 < 14 slams and 2 < 17 slams. And please don't talk about his M1000 wins, no one apart from tennis forum nerds give a damn about those wins. ;)

I don't agree with Mainad's post-skip surgery stuff but we shouldn't start to discount Master1000s too just because Djokovic is winning alot of slams lately otherwise this will come back to bite us where the sun don't shine. M1000 is also important, not on the same level as slams obviously but the point is don't get ahead of yourself just because Novak is winning multiple slams. ;)

Remember, 2012-2014 wasn't a good period for most of us Novak fans.
 
Most of the losses in 2012-14 were more bad management than choking.
2012 Wimby probably still stings , as the momentum turned against him from there. 2012 USO could have gone either way, but can't win 'em all.
2013 was a very frustrating year, apart from the AO and fall seasons, but Nadal lifted to another level.
2014, his AO loss to Stan was not totally out of the blue, but 2014 RG was very punishing, and not helped by the fact he was sick in the final -still did not play well.
Perhaps the 2014 USO Semi loss was the real one that got away, he was underdone in the lead up, but still should have aimed up for that.
He still needs at least one more USO imo, to secure his hard court legacy.
 
You should stop defending Murray in every single thread and get your head out his ass, because he really isn't that good. Last time I checked, 2 < 10 (and counting) slams, 2 < 14 slams and 2 < 17 slams. And please don't talk about his M1000 wins, no one apart from tennis forum nerds give a damn about those wins. ;)

You should stop attacking Murray in every single thread and get your head out of your ass, because he really is that good. Last time I checked, 2 Slams (and maybe counting) < better than anyone else has done apart from the Big 3 and Stan and I will talk about his M1000 wins because we tennis nerds and the ATP definitely give a damn about them and suspect you only don't give a damn about them when you have to consider how many of them Murray has won compared to any other player not named Fed, Rafa or Djoko. If you were discussing any of THEIR achievements you would definitely be mentioning their M1000 wins so spare me your pathetic hypocrisy. Murray is the number #2 player in the world. Get over it!
 
With hindsight I don't think winning "only" one major in both 2012 and 13 was that bad because the level of the big 4 was extremely high in those two years. Having said that, 2014 was inexcusable and that loss to Nishikori at the USO was a shocker, probably the worst match he's played at GS level in the past five years. I often watch highlights of Djokovic's matches, even the ones he lost but I can honestly say I've never watched highlights of that semifinal atrocity and never will for as long as I live. :D
 
Nadal is surely clutch player and all time greatest under presure (well at least he used to be).

Federer is somewhat different story. Different match dynamics.
Players need to hold firm early in a match against Federer if they ever have any chance to win against him.

He hates pressure. He wants to be pressure free as early as possible.
Federer is such a splinter. He draws 1st blood and run away with match.
Djokovic needs to pressure Federer right from the get go and hold steady.
Whenever Djokovic fails to hold steady 1st or 2nd set against Federer, he loses.
Good post
 
Not compared to Fedal. Both locked tennis down for a decade. Djokovic has another 5 years to go.
They did not dominate from 2001 to 2010. Federer arrived in 2003 and became number 1 in 2004 while Nadal introduced himself in 2005 and became number 1 in 2008. Djokovic became that in 2011 and hardly ever looked back. If you want to pick the most dominant player in the entire previous decade, you have to pick one. That one is Federer. Since 2011 Djokovic has been the best, and chances of someone having better results in 2016-2020 than he had in 2011-2015, with the chance of extending that dominance, are 1%.
 
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