Why did Djokovic choke away so many slam finals and semi finals from 2012-2014?

Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil said:
They did not dominate from 2001 to 2010. Federer arrived in 2003 and became number 1 in 2004 while Nadal introduced himself in 2005 and became number 1 in 2008. Djokovic became that in 2011 and hardly ever looked back. If you want to pick the most dominant player in the entire previous decade, you have to pick one. That one is Federer. Since 2011 Djokovic has been the best, and chances of someone having better results in 2016-2020 than he had in 2011-2015, with the chance of extending that dominance, are 1%.
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Then it is Nadal..2005-2015 is a decade. You do the Math, Nadal won the most Majors... and got Olympic Singles Gold. Lockdown!
 
Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil said:
They did not dominate from 2001 to 2010. Federer arrived in 2003 and became number 1 in 2004 while Nadal introduced himself in 2005 and became number 1 in 2008. Djokovic became that in 2011 and hardly ever looked back. If you want to pick the most dominant player in the entire previous decade, you have to pick one. That one is Federer. Since 2011 Djokovic has been the best, and chances of someone having better results in 2016-2020 than he had in 2011-2015, with the chance of extending that dominance, are 1%.
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In that case Nadal is my pick. 2005-2015 is 10 years, i.e a dcade, Nadal won the most Majors and got an Olympic singles Gold. Its a lockdown for rafa.

As an aside, you seem a bit obsessed by me.
 
Nishikori is a joke, sorry. Nole lost to a joke, it doesn't sting, I was angry for MONTHS.
 
Nachiket Nolefam said:
Nishikori is a joke, sorry. Nole lost to a joke, it doesn't sting, I was angry for MONTHS.
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Wouldn't say Nishikori is a joke, he is just a Ferrer level player. But he could be even better.

Certainly though he's a cut below who Federer beat in his pomp. So you can see why people would think it's pretty stupid to elevate Djokovic above Federer when he is susceptible to these kind of upsets in majors.

My feelings on the Djokovic - Federer GOAT discussion remind me of the Kobe Bryant - Michael Jordan comparison. Not accomplished enough yet to take the mantle, and might never end up becoming accomplished enough.

 
Gary20 said:
Then it is Nadal..2005-2015 is a decade. You do the Math, Nadal won the most Majors... and got Olympic Singles Gold. Lockdown!
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You trolling? A year when we are entering a new decade is dividable by 10. That is why it is called a decade. The previous decade did not end in 1995, 2005, 2015. It ended in 1990, 2000, 2010. Just like the new millennium was celebrated in 2000 and not any other year. Why? Because 2000 is dividable by 1000.
Never thought that maths is that big of a problem for some people.
 
Sabratha said:
Wouldn't say Nishikori is a joke, he is just a Ferrer level player. But he could be even better.

Certainly though he's a cut below who Federer beat in his pomp. So you can see why people would think it's pretty stupid to elevate Djokovic above Federer when he is susceptible to these kind of upsets in majors.

My feelings on the Djokovic - Federer GOAT discussion remind me of the Kobe Bryant - Michael Jordan comparison. Not accomplished enough yet to take the mantle, and might never end up becoming accomplished enough.

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Surprisingly that is never applied for Nadal GOAT claim who has been losing to many people in slams, even at top 4. I don't think future generations will care about present ones. Federer/Djokovic name would be as relevant as Borg/Sampras.
Nishikori is a joke not like Fogna, he is certianly a B+ player, but he can't beat Nole's best. Although it doesn't matter at the end of the day, just wanted to point out.
 
Gary20 said:
In that case Nadal is my pick. 2005-2015 is 10 years, i.e a dcade, Nadal won the most Majors and got an Olympic singles Gold. Its a lockdown for rafa.

As an aside, you seem a bit obsessed by me.
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No obsession. My only rule is:"Disrespect, underrate or insult any top player, especially Novak, you will be countered." The same rule is applied to everyone else. If you think your statements are making me angry or wasting my time or anything like that, you are quite delusional. I have seen worse.
 
Sabratha said:
Wouldn't say Nishikori is a joke, he is just a Ferrer level player. But he could be even better.

Certainly though he's a cut below who Federer beat in his pomp.
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That all depends which players you're referring to Saby. No way would I say Nishikori is a worse player than every opponent Federer beat in GS semis/finals between 03-07.
 
Djokovic played bad in USO12, Wimby13, USO13, USO14, and also in many RGs. I'll not use the "magic" word, but that was just that!

Djokovic was unbeaten for so long in MS1000 finals, and similarly he has been the dominant best player (out of slams) ever since 2011. Still, he only won two AOs and granpa-slam in three years 2012-2014. If that's not underachieving then Nalby is GOAT LOL.
 
Djokovic2011 said:
That all depends which players you're referring to Saby. No way would I say Nishikori is a worse player than every opponent Federer beat in GS semis/finals between 03-07.
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Worse than Roddick/Hewitt.
 
Nachiket Nolefam said:
Surprisingly that is never applied for Nadal GOAT claim who has been losing to many people in slams, even at top 4. I don't think future generations will care about present ones. Federer/Djokovic name would be as relevant as Borg/Sampras.
Nishikori is a joke not like Fogna, he is certianly a B+ player, but he can't beat Nole's best. Although it doesn't matter at the end of the day, just wanted to point out.
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I don't think Nadal is the GOAT either. Not even Federer.

The GOAT is probably Laver.
 
Sabratha said:
I don't think Nadal is the GOAT either. Not even Federer.

The GOAT is probably Laver.
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I don't know that. But I am saying a single instance can't tarnish legacy. Djokovic 2014 semis was worst loss of his career since 2011, but definitely not most agonizing. He didn't even care it seemed to me.
 
Nachiket Nolefam said:
I don't know that. But I am saying a single instance can't tarnish legacy. Djokovic 2014 semis was worst loss of his career since 2011, but definitely not most agonizing. He didn't even care it seemed to me.
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That single instance never happened to Federer during 2004-2007, or if it did it came at the hands of Kuerten who is a very accomplished player himself.

Djokovic is a great player, but we don't know how good he truly is yet. Career evaluations are better left for a finished career, not an ongoing super successful one.
 
Sabratha said:
That single instance never happened to Federer during 2004-2007, or if it did it came at the hands of Kuerten who is a very accomplished player himself.

Djokovic is a great player, but we don't know how good he truly is yet. Career evaluations are better left for a finished career, not an ongoing super successful one.
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Hmm, I don't lose sleep over it, as you can't help someone who don't want it. Whole summer harcourt he was in honeymoon phase. People thought he would lose even earlier.
 
I am so glad Novak won Wimbledon 2014 final because if he went on to lose that, I don't know what would have happened to him. He was losing in GS finals + he lost his pet slam at the AO, and lost to Nadal, AGAIN, at the French Open. Safe to say the Wimby 2014 final was a big turning point in his career also and not just 2011.

Yes he didn't win the USO after but Becker's coaching and the belief he gained from the Wimby final payed off for the results he obtained in 2015 and in a way the losses he inccured previously (apart from the FO) were rectified this year like winning the AO again, winning the 2nd US Open, otherwise he'd be 1-5 in US Open finals etc​
 
Nachiket Nolefam said:
Hmm, I don't lose sleep over it, as you can't help someone who don't want it. Whole summer harcourt he was in honeymoon phase. People thought he would lose even earlier.
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To be honest I expected Nole to win the whole thing. And after he was knocked out, I expected Federer to win the whole thing. Neither happened. It's history, that's all there is to it.

At least we got a good player out of Nishikori during/after it. He's ranked around where Berdych is now, and that's a huge accomplishment for Japan's greatest tennis player.
 
Doflamingo said:
I am so glad Novak won Wimbledon 2014 final because if he went on to lose that, I don't know what would have happened to him. He was losing in GS finals + he lost his pet slam at the AO, and lost to Nadal, AGAIN, at the French Open. Safe to say the Wimby 2014 final was a big turning point in his career also and not just 2011.

Yes he didn't win the USO after but Becker's coaching and the belief he gained from the Wimby final payed off for the results he obtained in 2015 and in a way the losses he inccured previously (apart from the FO) were rectified this year like winning the AO again, winning the 2nd US Open, otherwise he'd be 1-5 in US Open finals etc​
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Davis Cup 2010 and Wimbledon 2014 were the most important titles for him when talking of how big effect they had on his future.
Watching the highlights of that 5th set still make me nervous.
 
How the hell is Laver the greatest player, that is very disrespectful to the likes of the big three trio of today. Laver won 200 career titles, that is inconceivable in today's game. There is no way the likes of Fed, Nadal and Djokovic as well as the tour in general can match those types of number because the tour does not allow you to simply play random events whenever. The tour is structured in a logical and precise way similar to how other major sports are. There are the Slams, Masters 1000, 500 series, 250 series, Davis Cup..No exhibition tournaments that actually count as official titles and no random tournaments that actually count towards the atp rankings and so on. Lavers numbers are hugely inflated and to be honest if he was playing in todays game he would most likely be a fringe contender with at least 1 title to his name. He achieved a lot in his era and was the greatest no doubt but to say he is the greatest of all time is very misleading as modern players do not get the chance to play random tournaments and such. They play the ATP's sanctioned tournaments plus the majors, make of it what you will but a 5'8 laver is not the GOAT, if that was the case then the likes of Fed, Nadal and Nole could never compete with numbers such as Lavers like 19 tournament wins in a year, the tour just simply does not allow that. His grand slam is a great achievement in this era but there is a reason why it has not been achieved since as we have four different surfaces and even the likes of the big three who came the closest actually achieving it never did. Make of it what you will but Laver is not the GOAT if there ever was one.
 
torpantennis said:
Yes, because Murray/Nadal, the real rivals of Djokovic from his own generation have been cr@p from early 2014 on. That's the difference.
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Why? Because Djokovic has owned them 9-1 and 5-1 respectively since the beginning of 2014? It is the the only period in which he was the best player. And their peaks are not better than his, except Nadal at RG, where he triumphed most of the time anyway.
Nice try.
 
Jokervich said:
From FO12 to USO14, he won just 2 slams, losing in 5 finals, 3 semi finals and 1 quarter final.
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I think he couldn't handle the pressure of being top-dog, and it affected his physical game. The winning instinct he showed in 2011 (and is showing in 2015) went AWOL.
 
Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil said:
Why? Because Djokovic has owned them 9-1 and 5-1 respectively since the beginning of 2014? It is the the only period in which he was the best player. And their peaks are not better than his, except Nadal at RG, where he triumphed most of the time anyway.
Nice try.
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Then why else if not choking did Djokovic lose to Murray/Nadal in slams in 2012-2014, if "their peaks are not better than his"?

And that Nishikori loss. That ain't choking??
 
Why is it always a choke when a player loses in here? Dont know how Many times you Hear this Every Day.

What happened in the past happened, you cannot change the outcome.
 
Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil said:
You trolling? A year when we are entering a new decade is dividable by 10. That is why it is called a decade. The previous decade did not end in 1995, 2005, 2015. It ended in 1990, 2000, 2010. Just like the new millennium was celebrated in 2000 and not any other year. Why? Because 2000 is dividable by 1000.
Never thought that maths is that big of a problem for some people.
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A decade is 10 years!! last decade is 2005-2015!! Problem is facts are facts, in those 10 years (a decade look it up in the dictionary) Nadal has 14 Majors, Federer 13. Djokovic on 10, quite a way behind...as usual.
 
Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil said:
No obsession. My only rule is:"Disrespect, underrate or insult any top player, especially Novak, you will be countered." The same rule is applied to everyone else. If you think your statements are making me angry or wasting my time or anything like that, you are quite delusional. I have seen worse.
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Countered? Im still waiting for a vaild counter from you. All you do is whine about irrelevant points. Not one productive point have you yet made. Not one.
 
Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil said:
Davis Cup 2010 and Wimbledon 2014 were the most important titles for him when talking of how big effect they had on his future.
Watching the highlights of that 5th set still make me nervous.
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How upset does watchin USO 2013 F make you feel? I love that match, in the Nadal/Djokovic rivalry it is the pivotal match. FO 2012 Final however their most historic match. its always Nadal who wins these type of HUGE clashes. Wonder why?
 
Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil said:
Why? Because Djokovic has owned them 9-1 and 5-1 respectively since the beginning of 2014? It is the the only period in which he was the best player. And their peaks are not better than his, except Nadal at RG, where he triumphed most of the time anyway.
Nice try.
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Nadal's peak is better than Djokovic's on any surface except possibly Plexicushion. Nadal beat the GOAT of grass in 2008 at or near his peak. Djokovic barely bets an old way past his best Federer on grass.

On american HC, outside Miami there is no difference hardly. At the big HC even Nadal holds a 2-1 Final h2h advantage. Not sure what planet you are on if im honest.
 
Some of you saying Novak didnt choke? Well, he choked in several very important matches he could have won if he didn't choke those crucial moment. But he didn't choke in all of the important matches he lost, most of the matches he just wasn't the best player on court.

Why players choke is obvious isn't it?
 
I am honestly convinced Gary20 is not a Nadal fan, but a pretend Nadal fan/troll who is trying to get people here to hate Nadal even more than this forum generally already does. If so he is doing a good job.
 
Gary20 said:
Nadal's peak is better than Djokovic's on any surface except possibly Plexicushion. Nadal beat the GOAT of grass in 2008 at or near his peak. Djokovic barely bets an old way past his best Federer on grass.

On american HC, outside Miami there is no difference hardly. At the big HC even Nadal holds a 2-1 Final h2h advantage. Not sure what planet you are on if I'm honest.
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I was thinking exactly the same thing after reading this post. ;)
 
Gary20 said:
Nadal's peak is better than Djokovic's on any surface except possibly Plexicushion. Nadal beat the GOAT of grass in 2008 at or near his peak. Djokovic barely bets an old way past his best Federer on grass.

On american HC, outside Miami there is no difference hardly. At the big HC even Nadal holds a 2-1 Final h2h advantage. Not sure what planet you are on if im honest.
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Only better peak on clay. We mentioned this before, I have no intention to run in circles.
 
Gary20 said:
How upset does watchin USO 2013 F make you feel? I love that match, in the Nadal/Djokovic rivalry it is the pivotal match. FO 2012 Final however their most historic match. its always Nadal who wins these type of HUGE clashes. Wonder why?
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What does that final have to do anything with my post you quoted?
What an attention seeker. :rolleyes:
 
torpantennis said:
Then why else if not choking did Djokovic lose to Murray/Nadal in slams in 2012-2014, if "their peaks are not better than his"?

And that Nishikori loss. That ain't choking??
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You do know Djokovic did not play every match at his highest level, right? Do I have to draw stuff to you so you could understand?
 
Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil said:
Only better peak on clay. We mentioned this before, I have no intention to run in circles.
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2-1 at USO where they have same amunt of wins, and W is very close, AO is in Djokovic favour. But overall apart from AO, Nadal's best is better everywhere else. FO and USO are easy and locked down, as for W, i refer you to W2008.
 
Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil said:
That is you. Not me. You. Everyone will agree with me on this.
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You are so mentally weak and unsure of yourself you need your mates to back you up. I actually feel sorry for you, have some strength of character and stand by your arguments with reasons, not seek support from an anti-Nadal brigade.
 
Gary20 said:
2-1 at USO where they have same amunt of wins, and W is very close, AO is in Djokovic favour. But overall apart from AO, Nadal's best is better everywhere else. FO and USO are easy and locked down, as for W, i refer you to W2008.
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Sorry, but Djokovic is better at 3 Majors. Only Nadal's incredible superiority at RG is making the difference between him and Djokovic and keeping him close to Federer, who is also better at all other 3 Majors.
Gary20 said:
You are so mentally weak and unsure of yourself you need your mates to back you up. I actually feel sorry for you, have some strength of character and stand by your arguments with reasons, not seek support from an anti-Nadal brigade.
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My point is that you do not have an issue with me only. You have an issue with everyone else here. I do not need their back-up at all, everything I have personally been through gave me very good mental strength. When someone somehow connects 2013 US Open with my statement about DC 2010 and Wimbledon 2014 and is acting like that is the only US Open tournament ever played, it tells that guy is obsessed with Nadal, or maybe wants to see Djokovic lose so badly every time possible.
 
Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil said:
Sorry, but Djokovic is better at 3 Majors. Only Nadal's incredible superiority at RG is making the difference between him and Djokovic and keeping him close to Federer, who is also better at all other 3 Majors.

My point is that you do not have an issue with me only. You have an issue with everyone else here. I do not need their back-up at all, everything I have personally been through gave me very good mental strength. When someone somehow connects 2013 US Open with my statement about DC 2010 and Wimbledon 2014 and is acting like that is the only US Open tournament ever played, it tells that guy is obsessed with Nadal, or maybe wants to see Djokovic lose so badly every time possible.
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You come across very mentally weak as you seek reassurance from others. I can se why you like Djokovic, perhaps you see something in him you can relate to as he too is a bit soft.

It was proven a while back i was right that at USO Nadal is better than Djokovic. Apart from Djokovic fanboys, everyone else acknowledged that where two players are tied, it is necesary to look at their match ups to determine top dog. Nadal has that status, even Boris becker said djokovic was third best current active player at USo so i dont see why you seek to argue with your own man's coach.

As for Federer, different discussion. He is an all time great as Nadal is and worthy of comparison and clearly is better at 3 Majors. Nadal and Federer are at the same table. Tier 1 ATG's. Djokovic a Tier 2 ATG. You should be comparing him to Connors and McEnroe. Dont elevate him above his station.
 
Gary20 said:
You come across very mentally weak as you seek reassurance from others. I can se why you like Djokovic, perhaps you see something in him you can relate to as he too is a bit soft.

It was proven a while back i was right that at USO Nadal is better than Djokovic. Apart from Djokovic fanboys, everyone else acknowledged that where two players are tied, it is necesary to look at their match ups to determine top dog. Nadal has that status, even Boris becker said djokovic was third best current active player at USo so i dont see why you seek to argue with your own man's coach.

As for Federer, different discussion. He is an all time great as Nadal is and worthy of comparison and clearly is better at 3 Majors. Nadal and Federer are at the same table. Tier 1 ATG's. Djokovic a Tier 2 ATG. You should be comparing him to Connors and McEnroe. Dont elevate him above his station.
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Ok now, if you are going to make this personal with mental strength claims, at least spare other posters watching this forum.
Nadal was better at USO until this year. Now that Djokovic is tied in terms of titles, combined with his amazing overall US Open results, he is the better player. If Nadal led the match up by 7-1 or something it would be a strong claim he is better. But that is not the case so he is not.
Comparing Djokovic with Connors and McEnroe? Interesting story dude...
 
Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil said:
Ok now, if you are going to make this personal with mental strength claims, at least spare other posters watching this forum.
Nadal was better at USO until this year. Now that Djokovic is tied in terms of titles, combined with his amazing overall US Open results, he is the better player. If Nadal led the match up by 7-1 or something it would be a strong claim he is better. But that is not the case so he is not.
Comparing Djokovic with Connors and McEnroe? Interesting story dude...
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This is sport, the highest stakes. 3 finals, Nadal has a 2-1 lead suposedly on Djokovic's favourite surface!! It isnt amazing keep getting to the final only to lose. Connors by your own arguments has to be ahead of Djokovic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! McEnroe as well!
 
Gary20 said:
This is sport, the highest stakes. 3 finals, Nadal has a 2-1 lead suposedly on Djokovic's favourite surface!! It isnt amazing keep getting to the final only to lose. Connors by your own arguments has to be ahead of Djokovic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! McEnroe as well!
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Well, at US Open Connors and McEnroe are better than both Djokovic and Nadal. But overall, Djokovic and Nadal are much better than the other two.
 
Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil said:
Well, at US Open Connors and McEnroe are better than both Djokovic and Nadal. But overall, Djokovic and Nadal are much better than the other two.
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If you are comparing those four, you cannot count the AO. Connors and Mcenroe hardly played there!! So at the three historically most important Majors we have Nadal 13, Connors 8, McEnroe 7, Djokovic 5.
 
Gary20 said:
If you are comparing those four, you cannot count the AO. Connors and Mcenroe hardly played there!! So at the three historically most important Majors we have Nadal 13, Connors 8, McEnroe 7, Djokovic 5.
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So you saying I should take away Australian Opens Novak won (and oh what a coincidence, he has 5 of those) because some two Americans from decades ago did not bother showing up in Melbourne? You amaze me more and more...
 
Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil said:
So you saying I should take away Australian Opens Novak won (and oh what a coincidence, he has 5 of those) because some two Americans from decades ago did not bother showing up in Melbourne? You amaze me more and more...
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Absolutely i am. In their day the AO was not important. Even Pat cash says that and he is Australian!!
 
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