Why did Roger Quickly dismiss the tuxedo RF97?

SinneGOAT

Hall of Fame
It is kinda ugly the more I watch it on tv, the white sticks out like a sore thumb on any surface, especially clay or grass. He said I think that it was very bright and distracted him so he stuck with all black.
 

jarko111

Hall of Fame
It never really worked or looked good on camera. Funny, since there are plenty of racquets that use just those two colors. I've hit with some of the KfActor racquets, Speeds and of course the o3 whites and the TexTreme Warrior... and they all look great. IMO
 

Tennease

Legend
Maybe the Titanium dioxide in the white paint gave the racquet different feel. Maybe the Carbon black in the black paint has better feel.
 

AceyMan

Semi-Pro
It was visual, tantamount to epilleptic triggers in strobe lights. His hand eye coordination was thrown off at contact by the sharp contrast
RF, like many players, twirls his racquet when he's receiving serves and other times as well.

The bright white bars create a strobe effect that's visually disconcerting as Ben noted.

/Acey

Wilson needs to just bag that whole graphics design. It's not flattering / boring af / and poorly distinguishes the various model lines. Compare it with previous frames like the BLX / nCode / Hyper Carbon, etc. Those were some nice PJs. They need to get their artistic sh** together, imho.
 

Benben245

Banned
RF, like many players, twirls his racquet when he's receiving serves and other times as well.

The bright white bars create a strobe effect that's visually disconcerting as Ben noted.

/Acey

Wilson needs to just bag that whole graphics design. It's not flattering / boring af / and poorly distinguishes the various model lines. Compare it with previous frames like the BLX / nCode / Hyper Carbon, etc. Those were some nice PJs. They need to get their artistic sh** together, imho.
Incorrect assessment . At a 2018 USopen practice session at Arthur Ashe with Wawrinka, Wawrinka talks to Federer about how a paint job caused him to shank balls on the frame similar to what Roger went through. This convo starts at 19.57
 

TnsGuru

Professional
I heard he was shanking balls with the tuxedo 97 RF. With the all-black, it's easier to center the ball on the sweet spot, whereas with the white on the sides of the tuxedo layout could make it harder to see the ball.

It could be that he is superstitious; most athletes are when it comes to their equipment. I have friends who play the RF 97 and prefer all black vs the tuxedo.
 

lelopez

Semi-Pro
I heard he was shanking balls with the tuxedo 97 RF. With the all-black, it's easier to center the ball on the sweet spot, whereas with the white on the sides of the tuxedo layout could make it harder to see the ball.

It could be that he is superstitious; most athletes are when it comes to their equipment. I have friends who play the RF 97 and prefer all black vs the tuxedo.
Possibly, but I'm not buying it. He had battled some hand issues at the same time he was using the tuxedo and perhaps blamed the results on the PJ. Plus, the nCode pj with his old 90 had the gloss white at 3 and 9, though the rest of the racquet was red and not black, and he was Goaterer with that racquet.
 

ron schaap

Hall of Fame
Possibly, but I'm not buying it. He had battled some hand issues at the same time he was using the tuxedo and perhaps blamed the results on the PJ. Plus, the nCode pj with his old 90 had the gloss white at 3 and 9, though the rest of the racquet was red and not black, and he was Goaterer with that racquet.
You r right. I m so tired about this paint job nonsense. Since when does a great player looks at his own racquet when the ball is in play?
If the white is distracting than its for his opponents which is good. @_@
 

FedrMatt

Semi-Pro
Possibly, but I'm not buying it. He had battled some hand issues at the same time he was using the tuxedo and perhaps blamed the results on the PJ. Plus, the nCode pj with his old 90 had the gloss white at 3 and 9, though the rest of the racquet was red and not black, and he was Goaterer with that racquet.
I thought about this, but I've played with the tuxedo and the ncode 90. The red is lighter and brighter, so the white blends into the racquet colour more and it's easier to ignore. The white on the tuxedo was contrasted with the black and I hated it personally.

I can see how the PJ was a problem with the tuxedo but not with the ncode.
 

penguin

Professional
What I reckon, based on no evidence, is that he finally got the racquet dialled in with the black paint job in the run up to his ao win, and adding the white flashes on the sides confused his brain into thinking he was back with the n90 for momentary blips. Not saying he's stupid or something, just that that level of tennis is so reliant on deep reflexes and conditioning that it could matter. So he's sticking with the black for his tennis brain. Maybe having black is an advantage by helping you focus and not have your eye drawn to the colours of the racquet. Perhaps that is why Sampras wouldn't let them paint job his ps85, maybe that's why racquet companies that want pros to try and like their new frames black them out. Maybe that's why Nadal switched from bright yellow strings to black strings, maybe that's why so many young players were successful with the Wilson blade which has had a mostly black pj in the majority of iterations I will paint your racquet a special grade of pro-black that is almost invisible for a small fee of $4000- no time wasters I know what I have here
 

Rabbit

G.O.A.T.
Truth be told, it's in the video posted by TW. Roger liked the all black paint job. I can't blame him it is classy as hell. And it's the reason I opted for the Yonex VCore 98 Galaxy over the red paint.
 

wangs78

Hall of Fame
I thought about this, but I've played with the tuxedo and the ncode 90. The red is lighter and brighter, so the white blends into the racquet colour more and it's easier to ignore. The white on the tuxedo was contrasted with the black and I hated it personally.

I can see how the PJ was a problem with the tuxedo but not with the ncode.
Completely agree. I love the ncode paintjob. But the tuxedo RF97 just looked clunky.
 

galain

Hall of Fame
Wilson needs to just bag that whole graphics design. It's not flattering / boring af / and poorly distinguishes the various model lines. Compare it with previous frames like the BLX / nCode / Hyper Carbon, etc. Those were some nice PJs. They need to get their artistic sh** together, imho.
I couldn't agree with this more. This cosmetic style just looks lazy. I'm all for having a simple elegant paintjob - this aint that.

And the tuxedo paintjob on the ProStaff is the laziest $hittiest version of them all. "Let's see....what colour will go well with black...? Hmm - how about white!" Black and white? You couldn't do better than that Wilson? (I thought the original Hammer was also ugly but this ProStaff is worse).

If Fed likes his all black ninja frame, more power to him. It looks classy.
 

AceyMan

Semi-Pro
I'm all for having a simple elegant paintjob - this aint that.
Truer words were never spoken.

If Fed likes his all black ninja frame, more power to him. It looks classy.
I have one "standard" v11 Pro Staff (non-CV) black-on-black. It's been tuned with leather & lead, courtesy of moi, and now it weighs more than an RF97 (pansie) ... but I get an RA two points lower.
That's win-win, as I see it—and now I wish I had picked up another when TW had them in all sizes for $99. D'oh.
/AC
 

Aretium

Hall of Fame
I actually prefer the tuxedo. The white accented the rackets movement. The all black is just dull and unoriginal imo. Still looks good.
 
I couldn't agree with this more. This cosmetic style just looks lazy. I'm all for having a simple elegant paintjob - this aint that.

And the tuxedo paintjob on the ProStaff is the laziest $hittiest version of them all. "Let's see....what colour will go well with black...? Hmm - how about white!" Black and white? You couldn't do better than that Wilson? (I thought the original Hammer was also ugly but this ProStaff is worse).

If Fed likes his all black ninja frame, more power to him. It looks classy.
Nevermind *delete this post*
 

John

Semi-Pro
Anyone know why Roger never liked the black/white version of the RF97? Was it really as simple as the white paint feeling different?
wilson had a very bad quality on the tuxedo racquets. i don’t know exactly what was the issue but over all bad quality even for the general public.
so Wilson switch back to all black immediate. It’s not just roger having issue.

the while paint also use different material than the black, it also made the racquet different and Roger was too good to feel it.

but for chinese, it’s a no brainer.. white and black means funeral.... no wonder roger lost match.
 

ron schaap

Hall of Fame
wilson had a very bad quality on the tuxedo racquets. i don’t know exactly what was the issue but over all bad quality even for the general public.
so Wilson switch back to all black immediate. It’s not just roger having issue.

the while paint also use different material than the black, it also made the racquet different and Roger was too good to feel it.

but for chinese, it’s a no brainer.. white and black means funeral.... no wonder roger lost match.
Not so bad for Kohlschreiber who was even in first round Roland Garris. There was also this Spanish Wta player who used a tuxedo with good results. I think concerning paint, some pros are too superstitious
 

AceyMan

Semi-Pro
Incorrect assessment . At a 2018 USopen practice session at Arthur Ashe with Wawrinka, Wawrinka talks to Federer about how a paint job caused him to shank balls on the frame similar to what Roger went through. This convo starts at 19.57
Well,

Was this talk among pros a *comprehensive discussion* of the racquet, in every detail?—or was this clip with Stan, Ashe & Roger part of a varied discussion touching on several topics?

Hmmph. Thought so.

If so, your truth doesn't/cannot negate my statement.

/Acey

But we both agree it sucks, even tho only one of us studied formal logic <nods across the card table>.

[edit for name goof]
 
Last edited:

Bender

G.O.A.T.
I will have to say that I strung a couple of the Tuxedo's for one of my mates. They do look better in person than on TV.
Agree, looks really nice in person--father was gifted one by his tennis group.

It's CV right? It may have looked nice but it played like ass
 

AceyMan

Semi-Pro
Incorrect assessment . At a 2018 USopen practice session at Arthur Ashe with Wawrinka, Wawrinka talks to Federer about how a paint job caused him to shank balls on the frame similar to what Roger went through. This convo starts at 19.57
Assuming the anecdote between Stan and RF is as you say: did they discuss the racquet in precise detail?—outlining every positive and negative of the frame?

Unless they did, what *you* reported doesn't invalidate my statements. (That's fancy for, "Acey is not incorrect.")

In fact, I suspect it likely was more of a nerdy chat between pros that touched on various subjects; the RF97 livery being one of several.

/Acey

One thing we can agree on, is that the tuxedo scheme was a total WTF, even if only one of us studied formal logic in uni.
 

jxs653

Semi-Pro
Not sure how true but I read it here. It seems the white paint distracted Roger when playing in the sun.
It was visual, tantamount to epilleptic triggers in strobe lights. His hand eye coordination was thrown off at contact by the sharp contrast
Is this for real? Maybe someone say something out of imagination and then it spreads like a fact? I couldn't conceive that color of racquet can have that kind of influence.
 

John

Semi-Pro
Not so bad for Kohlschreiber who was even in first round Roland Garris. There was also this Spanish Wta player who used a tuxedo with good results. I think concerning paint, some pros are too superstitious
Roger literally said he felt the difference in one of the interview.
you know who informed me the bad quality of the Black and white and urged me to wait for later batches.

as for other pro Player like dimetrov who already had paint job done, they don’t bother to chante and they don’t have to since it’s the latest cosmetic.
for those pros, they never use the real thing... just pj.

what I think people should guess there might be material or manufacturing issues but those information was never released to public.
its ridiculous to pull off a batch because federer refused to use. But on the other side, imagine federer was under so much pressure but insist to switch back. it also means he really got a good reason not to use or can’t use.
 

ron schaap

Hall of Fame
Roger literally said he felt the difference in one of the interview.
you know who informed me the bad quality of the Black and white and urged me to wait for later batches.

as for other pro Player like dimetrov who already had paint job done, they don’t bother to chante and they don’t have to since it’s the latest cosmetic.
for those pros, they never use the real thing... just pj.

what I think people should guess there might be material or manufacturing issues but those information was never released to public.
its ridiculous to pull off a batch because federer refused to use. But on the other side, imagine federer was under so much pressure but insist to switch back. it also means he really got a good reason not to use or can’t use.
maybe some played pj but dont tell me Kohlschreiber is using only a tuxedo paintjob of a racquet model today that is no longer being sold and or appearantly has had quality problem status. Would be bad publicity for Wilson. Wilson would than paint his racquets in the colors of the latest racquet model that it wants to sell. So concluding some pros do play the tuxedo and dont care if Fed and baby Fed are being so superstitious about it.
 

jmacdaununder2

Hall of Fame
Assuming you aren’t trolling ‘Schaapstradamus‘ style; isn’t Kohlschreiber still using an extended H22? Probably ranking and COVID have resulted in repaint delays. Don’t recall Grigor having any issues with the tuxedo; he used the cosmetic extensively.
 
Last edited:
In a presser around the time he went back to the black, he said something like "I just played so well with the black".
In an extended interview a bit earlier, he said that changing to the all black (from the 2014 red/black) required some adjustment, but he had time for it. It was during the injury lay off before the infamous '17 AO. He added that the change to the tuxedo was no problem, since it was only the colour/paint. But after a couple of losses, he changed back. I am sure Wilson was not pleased, but I suppose it turned out ok for them as well.
 

KYHacker

Professional
Agree, looks really nice in person--father was gifted one by his tennis group.

It's CV right? It may have looked nice but it played like ass
I have the Tuxedo. I wasn’t a super fan when I bought them, but now it’s my favorite cosmetic. It looks way better in person and I actually find that the white sides help me frame the ball juat like the Prince Diablo MP paint job did.

I haven’t played with other versions but I do remember that there was a discussion that there was a slight (VERY slight) change in the flex in the head on the Tuxedo versions. Probably enough to bother Fed, but probably too subtle for regular joe’s to notice.
 

Crashbaby

Semi-Pro
My theory..... it highlights the racquets’ position, speed and path, instead of being virtually invisible (all black) to the opponent. It is not rocket science, it was a bad idea. And that’s on top of it being a distraction to Roger himself. I still fell for the bs advertising from Roger at time and bought one, because I’m a fan and always will be :)
 

Oval_Solid

Semi-Pro
the white part is glossy white paint but the black is velvet/rubbery paint
so in bright sunlight u get some sun reflection from the glossy white
 
Top