It may not need those things to make it important, but it is an important event for tennis anyway.
Which tournaments does tennis need to sell the game?
The fact is, the Olympics is bigger than tennis, and top tennis players want to be a part of it.
Why do Federer fans hate Nadal and Murray so much
- Thread starter ripitup
- Start date
The fact is, the Olympics is bigger than tennis, and top tennis players want to be a part of it.
tennisaddict
Bionic Poster
Roddick was a top 10 player for 10 years , major winner. Decided to skip.
Massu, Rosset all won Olympics.
redpurusha
Rookie
This man speaks the truth. Read this OP..eat it, digest slowly and we're done.
THUNDERVOLLEY
G.O.A.T.
The Olympics did not miss him, yet Federer and others wanted to win Olympic Gold in singles. There's no dancing around Federer's desire.
tennisaddict
Bionic Poster
Federer's desire is irrelevant to the discussion. Federer is greedy and he wants everything in the world.
There is a tennis body and it has decided 750 points is all what it is worth. So, you deal with it.
Whether Federer cried or Agassi winced are immaterial to the discussion. And in any case, Fed is a cry baby.
The Dark Knight
Legend
The reason Fed fans hate Murray and Nadal is because they both have one thing in common :
They both beat Federer more than anyone else .
tennisaddict
Bionic Poster
Common man will not even know what H2H means. The world cares just for who won most majors. Period.
The Dark Knight
Legend
And Nadal has more majors at 27 than Federer had at 27....
Despite Nadal missing 3 slams .
He also has won olynpics and I believe got his team to 4 Davis cup wins ?
Fed in more time has zero and zero
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ivan_the_terrible
Hall of Fame
Federer fans first and foremost hate Nadal-deluded fans. Nadal hate is just collateral damage. Humble Nadal (if he could read English) would be thoroughly disappointed in the behaviour of his 'fans' on these forums.
Antonio Puente
Hall of Fame
Nadal won his 13th in his 36th slam, Fed in his 38th.
Backspin1183
Talk Tennis Guru
RE OSG 750 points, I think part of the reason for it only 750 points is because the Games are played only once in 4 years and it's kinda unfair to the gold medalist if he is to lose his 1500 points the next year because he cannot defend it.
If I were a pro tennis player, I know I'd rather win a gold medal than a WTF. It's so much more prestigious. You help your country win a medal in the biggest sporting event in the world and also get rewarded for it. And it would be an amazing experience to share your moment with athletes from other sports.
If I were a pro tennis player, I know I'd rather win a gold medal than a WTF. It's so much more prestigious. You help your country win a medal in the biggest sporting event in the world and also get rewarded for it. And it would be an amazing experience to share your moment with athletes from other sports.
tennisaddict
Bionic Poster
Nice try..
What happens to a player who wins a WTF, but drops to 10th rank the following year. It is double whammy.
Backspin1183
Talk Tennis Guru
WTF happens every year. It's on your racquet! If you're one of the best performers of the season, you are there. The Olympic Games? It doesn't matter how good you are, you cannot defend your points.
Roddick85
Hall of Fame
I'll guess it depends in which part of the world you reside. Olympic games in general aren't exactly a big draw compared to professional sports in america in my opinion. Hockey being the #1 sport in Canada, if you ask a hockey buff what he finds the most prestigious, Stanley Cup or a Olympic gold? I think you'd hear Stanley Cup most of the time. Over time, Olympics have lost they're importance, they always require huge investments from the goverment hosting the games and most of the time the return on investment isn't exactly there (See London 2012). After those 2-3 weeks of competitions, all your left with is huge infrastructure that cost a ton to maintain and that aren't used to they're full potential...
Back to tennis the fact that the ATP gives only 750 points for OG let's me think that it's not as valued as some can think. It's less than a MS-1000.
If I were to compare Olympic Games, I'd say it's more on par with the Davis cup, because the main draw of both competition is to "represent your country". As a die hard tennis fan, I never understood the interest in both competitions, but then again I'm not a very "patriotic" person and I'm pretty sure many other feel the same. As a Federer fan, seeing him win a 7th Wimbledon and reclaim #1 was much more satisfying to me than him winning gold. What Roger accomplished last year is much more meaningful to me from a tennis stand point than whatever he did in the olympics/davis cup during his career. I know Roger wants to maybe play the 2016 olympics to try to win gold, not agreeing with him here but regardless of what he does, what he accomplishes on a professional level is what matters to me.
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Backspin1183
Talk Tennis Guru
I'm not comparing a slam with the Olympic Gold. I'd choose a Wimbledon or FO or USO or AO over OSG. But if it's between a olympic gold and wtf, I'm going with the gold.
And you may be right about the importance of the Games depending more on where you're coming from. Maybe most Americans don't feel as passionate about the Olympic medals (you guys win tons of 'em anyway with China!) as Roger Federer from Switzerland or those from other countries. It's a big thing for many of us from other countries. In my country New Zeland, most people won't care if a pro tennis player won a WTF but olympic gold? That's gets you more recognition. However slams are much bigger imo.
As for the points, if it were 1000 points for the Games, the medalists lose those points the following year without any chance to defend them. With other tourneys you always have a chance if you perform well.
No
I can't speak for all Federer fans. But what I have noticed in this forum is that they don't hate Nadal or Murray at all. What they get annoyed by though it some fans depreciating Federer's legitimate achievements eg the 6 WTF's he has won.
If there instead was an environment on these forums of congratulating both sides for their acheivements rather than using put-downs as a way of elevating the players they support - then it would be a much more positive environment.
I am a Federer fan, but I also think that Nadal is incredibly impressive in the way he goes about things. I have watched tennis for many years and I have never seen a player play with such intensity, and play every point as if the score is irrelevant.
I can't speak for all Federer fans. But what I have noticed in this forum is that they don't hate Nadal or Murray at all. What they get annoyed by though it some fans depreciating Federer's legitimate achievements eg the 6 WTF's he has won.
If there instead was an environment on these forums of congratulating both sides for their acheivements rather than using put-downs as a way of elevating the players they support - then it would be a much more positive environment.
I am a Federer fan, but I also think that Nadal is incredibly impressive in the way he goes about things. I have watched tennis for many years and I have never seen a player play with such intensity, and play every point as if the score is irrelevant.
Backspin1183
Talk Tennis Guru
I'm pretty sure that Federer, Nadal, Djokovic, Murray all will be competing at the Games even if there's zero points to gain from the event.
Can't say the same about the WTF. You don't offer tons of cash and ranking points, the top guys won't bother showing up.
Can't say the same about the WTF. You don't offer tons of cash and ranking points, the top guys won't bother showing up.
tennisaddict
Bionic Poster
Evidence points to the contrary. Players who qualified for olympics, skipped it . Players who made it to WTF consider their life time achievement.
Eg Mardy Fish, for both categories, Roddick for both.
tennisaddict
Bionic Poster
The regular year does not have olympics. So players know very well that in an olympic year they have an opportunity for additional points. So, it is viewed as a chance to get more points and not as a case for losing points. it is not based on your theory that ATP decided they should limit it to 750.
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Backspin1183
Talk Tennis Guru
Both American players. They win 100s of medals without those two.
If you're a Federer fan, you should know how happy he was to win his semi final at the Games vs Delpo and how disappointed he was to lose to Murray.
tennisaddict
Bionic Poster
Kohlscreiber skipped. He is not American. I can provide several more examples if you need.
tennisaddict
Bionic Poster
Kohlscreiber skipped. He is not American. I can provide several more examples if you need.
Mardy played once and got a medal as well. He said he knows what olympics is all about and he rather concenterate on Atlanta, Washington DC and the rest of the American swing.
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
It is really only this forum. Insight... The maturity level & fanaticism on this forum appears to be considerably lower than the other TW forums. Almost, but not quite, as bad as a large segment of those who comment on Youtube. Just an observation, mind you.
Backspin1183
Talk Tennis Guru
Andy Murray said he wouldn't trade his OSG for his first Wimbledon!
Federer wants to keep playing because he wants to compete at the Games in Rio in 2016!
Federer wants to keep playing because he wants to compete at the Games in Rio in 2016!
Drian Abara
New User
If Fed competes at Rio 2016, I will cut off my left testicle.
I am not a Fed hater, (in fact I like pretty much all the top 10, except for Berdych, but I still find him funny) but I just think that because of the way he's playing right now, he'll be playing even worse in 2016, no doubt.
Backspin1183
Talk Tennis Guru
You sure about cutting off your testicle? That's gonna hurt bad, man. :shock:
Finesse4sum
Semi-Pro
Well lets see
Murray - I dislike the way he carries himself. Hes obsessive about every single point making it seem like he only lost the rally or point because he made a mistake. He lacks any real composure and even now he gets down on himself even more than Djoker.
He has a bad habit of going down 2 sets to people that wouldnt put a dent in Djoker,Nadal, Fed on a 50-60% form day. He has to win some long convoluted cat and mouse rally to get himself motivated or pumped up. His first serve is so ugly looking even if it had a percentage closer to Nadal's average 1st serve %.
I watch a lot of Murray matches.
Nadal - I dislike the time wasting. Regardless of whether it was a fault or a 1-3 shot rally or an ace he always does it. Watching AO 2012 was like watching the movie Das Boot and less enjoyable. I dislike that it seems like in his early days that any mishit he ever hit went in.
I dislike that his evolution (if you want to call it that) of the game of tennis is going to immerse itself in every young boy's mind growing up right now and God forbid we WILL see a Dimitrov version of Nadal some day. Probably wont be anywhere near as successful but still.
I hate that unless the ball is dead skidding on the floor Nadal will pick it up with the same amount of topspin as usual. I hate that Nadal gets enough sidespin combined with his topspin to rival pro baseball pitches and pro snooker shots.
I hate the the legend that shrouds his persona that his fans shout all day long
about when he loses that it isnt legit and when he wins he beat the best in the world and that when he retires or talks of injury after the match fans automatically put a asterisk next to that player's name that defeated him.
If only Nadal wasnt a baby
If only Nadal wasnt injured
If only Nadal's parents stayed together
If only Nadal didnt skip USO 2012 and AO 2013
If only Nadal didnt have to wear special shoes
If only Wimbledon were put back another week
If only the ATP had a 2 year ranking system
I watch many Nadal matches.
Murray - I dislike the way he carries himself. Hes obsessive about every single point making it seem like he only lost the rally or point because he made a mistake. He lacks any real composure and even now he gets down on himself even more than Djoker.
He has a bad habit of going down 2 sets to people that wouldnt put a dent in Djoker,Nadal, Fed on a 50-60% form day. He has to win some long convoluted cat and mouse rally to get himself motivated or pumped up. His first serve is so ugly looking even if it had a percentage closer to Nadal's average 1st serve %.
I watch a lot of Murray matches.
Nadal - I dislike the time wasting. Regardless of whether it was a fault or a 1-3 shot rally or an ace he always does it. Watching AO 2012 was like watching the movie Das Boot and less enjoyable. I dislike that it seems like in his early days that any mishit he ever hit went in.
I dislike that his evolution (if you want to call it that) of the game of tennis is going to immerse itself in every young boy's mind growing up right now and God forbid we WILL see a Dimitrov version of Nadal some day. Probably wont be anywhere near as successful but still.
I hate that unless the ball is dead skidding on the floor Nadal will pick it up with the same amount of topspin as usual. I hate that Nadal gets enough sidespin combined with his topspin to rival pro baseball pitches and pro snooker shots.
I hate the the legend that shrouds his persona that his fans shout all day long
about when he loses that it isnt legit and when he wins he beat the best in the world and that when he retires or talks of injury after the match fans automatically put a asterisk next to that player's name that defeated him.
If only Nadal wasnt a baby
If only Nadal wasnt injured
If only Nadal's parents stayed together
If only Nadal didnt skip USO 2012 and AO 2013
If only Nadal didnt have to wear special shoes
If only Wimbledon were put back another week
If only the ATP had a 2 year ranking system
I watch many Nadal matches.
Thriller
Hall of Fame
Good question.
For most tennis fans, Roger Federer is a sublime tennis player, compelling to watch and they are happy to see him do well but not personally affected when he doesn’t.
For a minority of extremists for whom Roger Federer is “a religious experience”, they worship him like a God and behave like zealots towards anyone who refuses to worship at the altar.
They have told themselves and been told by people who really should know better that Roger has the complete game, has no weaknesses ... blah, blah, blah ... and they really believe this utter nonsense. No player is perfect and Federer obviously has weaknesses in his game that Rafa Nadal has been able to exploit, pretty much from their first match together in 2004.
Rather than face the reality that Federer is human and flawed like everyone else, these extremists looked for excuses. Rafa is a lefty ... has muscles ... is super-fit .... just an awkward match-up ..... blah, blah, blah .... but they really believed that Nadal was a blip and as soon as Federer figured him out, normal service would be resumed.
Federer has a lot to answer for with some of the statements he made about Nadal in the early days which reinforced the extremists total lack of respect for Nadal's abilities. For example, Federer said this about Nadal in 2006:
The more I play him, I think the better it is for me. That's just the way I see it when I play against him. Because he's quite one-dimensional with his game. I said after Dubai I actually felt pretty good playing against him. I thought I actually saw, you know, the way I should play against him.
http://www.asapsports.com/show_interview.php?id=35901
Well it didn't turn out like that at all did it. Instead of figuring out Nadal, it was Nadal who figured out how to beat Federer on grass, then on hardcourts to dominate in slams on all surfaces against his rival.
By 2007, a more respectful Federer was saying:
People forget it's not enough just to be able to run and be focused. You've got to be able to hit a tennis ball, and he (Nadal) does that pretty good.
http://www.asapsports.com/show_interview.php?id=44165
By 2011, at last, glowing praise from Roger:
Rafael and myself must have played so many times and so many times it has come down to a few shots here and there. He is an amazing shot-maker. Me as well, but today he got the better of me.
http://www.atpworldtour.com/news/t...i-saturday-nadal-beats-federer-in-final.aspx
The problem is that the extremists are still stuck in the past and faced with the choice of either changing their opinion of Nadal (as Federer has done, to his credit) or demonizing him, they invariably choose the latter.
Can they accept that Federer, for all his beauty and style is not and never was the perfect player, he has flaws in his game just like everyone else?
No. They have invested too heavily in the myth. When God wins, they win. When God loses, he must have been cheated by the Devil and they feel cheated too. They will cling to any “explanation” (PEDS, Negative play, Time wasting, Shorts adjusting, the weather, court speed, blah, blah, blah), no matter how ludicrous, than accept the obvious one: Nadal beats Federer a lot more often than Federer beats Nadal because Nadal is a better, more complete tennis player than Roger Federer. He isn't as stylish or as elegant but he is more effective i.e. better.
Nadal’s and Murray’s games are quite different but what they have in common (apart from the superior H2Hs) is that from the outset, neither player made the mistake of giving Federer too much respect when they stepped on court. Off court they have tremendous respect for Roger’s abilities and achievements but on court, he is just another guy. They have no fear and they walk on court expecting to win and when they are playing very well, they can also force a lot of errors and make Roger Federer look ordinary.
The extremists despise these two players for not only humbling Federer but showing the other players how it should be done. Get a good game plan, stick to it, don't panic and try to play better than you need to when you get your opportunities.
Now more and more players are following their example and are not playing as if they are already beaten before they step onto court. It could be argued that these two players more than any others have played a pivotal role in destroying the myth of Roger Federer by proving time and again that if you choose and execute the right gameplan, Roger Federer is far from unbeatable.
To the extremists, it is not supposed to be like that and what they have done is overthrow God, which is completely unforgiveable.
tennisaddict
Bionic Poster
In 2008,Fed said London is the goal. Fed earns 70 million every year, he is not going to say ' i will watch how i play this summer or indoor season and take a call'. He is always going to give long time frames to ensure media does not pose retirment questions after every match.
Andy's biggest win has not been Wimbledon or Olympics. It is USO. Till the time he won the 5th set there, he did not have any belief in himself.
T
TennisandMusic
Guest
Wow, completely on the ball post Thriller. Good to see a new user who sees things so clearly on the the psychological side of things.
D
Deleted member 307496
Guest
The fact that Nadal is chasing Federer's record. It is starting to look like Nadal will usurp Federer as the best of his generation (or between Sampras' time and now) before his career ends.
Luminaire
Semi-Pro
I hate neither Nadal or Murray.
THUNDERVOLLEY
G.O.A.T.
Fantastic, accurate assessment.
Yes, it appears the more he had his *** beat by Nadal, the more he had to put on the face of "respect."
Fascinating, and your description of their paltry "explanations" is right on target.
Solid observation; several years ago, some of his opponents acted like giddy fanboys, so they assumed a submissive position, rather than an offensive one as the opponent.
Heart of their delusion. Well said.
tennisaddict
Bionic Poster
All the points are being hashed over again and again.
Greatest = most majors.
The day Nadal gets 18 majors , he will be the GOAT. He is still 5 short of it, which is a huge number.
Nadal extremists know this and want to start building a case for their hero, even with a shortfall quoting olympics, h2h, FO mastery, double slam, davis cup, etc.,
That will simply not cut it.
The day Nadal gets 18 , he will be the GOAT. Till then Fed remains solely at the TOP.
Greatest = most majors.
The day Nadal gets 18 majors , he will be the GOAT. He is still 5 short of it, which is a huge number.
Nadal extremists know this and want to start building a case for their hero, even with a shortfall quoting olympics, h2h, FO mastery, double slam, davis cup, etc.,
That will simply not cut it.
The day Nadal gets 18 , he will be the GOAT. Till then Fed remains solely at the TOP.
Fedinkum
Legend
Please elaborate
Can you please elaborate? Federer won his 13th slam at the age of 27 years and 1 month, Nadal won his 13th slam at the age of 27 years 3 months old. Federer at the time had the opportunity of winning 3 more before his 28th birthday, Nadal has the opportunity of winning 1 more before his 28th birthday.
Can you please elaborate? Federer won his 13th slam at the age of 27 years and 1 month, Nadal won his 13th slam at the age of 27 years 3 months old. Federer at the time had the opportunity of winning 3 more before his 28th birthday, Nadal has the opportunity of winning 1 more before his 28th birthday.
FedExpress117
Rookie
First question people should be asking themselves: what's the point of "hating" players at all? Shouldn't we all be enjoying life?
I mean, really, what do you really gain from hating players anyways--does it make you happier by hating other players? We enjoy watching sports and our favorite players win--what does hating do to that? It diminishes the fun we get from watching sports.
Especially on this forum, people shouldn't spend countless hours trying to attack fans of other players--what does that really accomplish?
I mean, really, what do you really gain from hating players anyways--does it make you happier by hating other players? We enjoy watching sports and our favorite players win--what does hating do to that? It diminishes the fun we get from watching sports.
Especially on this forum, people shouldn't spend countless hours trying to attack fans of other players--what does that really accomplish?
Finesse4sum
Semi-Pro
I think it keeps the fire alive for some of these people. Some fans have nothing else in life and others have nothing truly interesting going on so they nerd out on tennis like Star Wars enthusiasts nerd out on Jedi fights and lore.
As someone who used to watch anime at one time or another people get all nasty and hateful even arguing about whos better in the Gundam or Dragon Ball Z universe as far as forums go.
Hell theres war between Harry Potter and Twilight fans.
I was a lurker for a long time on here and I remember lots of posts and I also remember the ********* / Nadal Slam King Era. He was the strongest troll ever with some wicked spin on any fact or conjecture ever found or fathomed.
Please elaborate
Can you please elaborate. Federer won his 13 slam at the age of 27 years and 1 month, Nadal won his 13th slam at the age of 27 years 3 months old.
Can you please elaborate. Federer won his 13 slam at the age of 27 years and 1 month, Nadal won his 13th slam at the age of 27 years 3 months old.
Russeljones
Talk Tennis Guru
Have you noticed the influx of new users though, all *********..
tipsa...don'tlikehim!
Talk Tennis Guru
tipsa...don'tlikehim!
Talk Tennis Guru
ask him the question, you can be 99% sure he'll not say his biggest win is the US open
But nice try, bro
Phoenix1983
G.O.A.T.
Oh look, it's a new poster who joined in August 2013....who sounds exactly like an existing poster. :-|
tipsa...don'tlikehim!
Talk Tennis Guru
tennisaddict
Bionic Poster
No, it is the same. In the medals tally, it is a silver no matter what.
T
TennisandMusic
Guest
I actually haven't noticed, aside from a few, but that only makes sense.
Nadal is successful right now, so he will have more band wagoners. But his fandom is not predicated on "peRFection" and "God mode".
Thriller was incredibly right on the money. An insanely good post.
THUNDERVOLLEY
G.O.A.T.
...and that cannot touch the usual Fed fan suspects who have 4 or 5 alternate user accounts--always appearing after a Fed loss to protect him.
Yes--a wealth of truth in that post.
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