Why Do Junior Girls Avoid the Net?

[Tcbtennis]

First of all I miss the Junior Section of TT. But anyway, how do you encourage (or force) the girls to come forward to net to close out points. Of course I'm generalizing when I just mention girls but I see it so often in junior tennis. Girls struggle with this more than boys.

My daughter has transformed into an awesome aggressive baseliner since we changed coaches a year ago. She easily comes to the net when she generates a short ball from her opponent or if the opponent brings her forward with a drop shot or short slice. The problem occurs when she hits a really good shot that pulls her opponent off the court and the opponent has to resort to defensive manuvers (defensive slice, throwing the ball up) to stay in the point. I can literally see my daughter's mental battle with herself at this point. She wants to move forward but she hesitates, let's the ball drop and starts the point all over again. There are multiple points like this in her matches. She practices swinging volleys and traditional volleys all the time in practice but the moment the match starts (even practice matches) she just can't make herself do it. When we discuss this she says that she knows but she is too scared to do it. I repeatedly tell her that we don't care if she loses the point but she won't feel comfortable doing it in matches until she starts doing it in matches. Any thoughts anyone? If she could overcome this mental block it would take her to another level.

 

[Jay_The_Nomad]

They don't want to get lobbed. Get them to practise lots of smashes.

 

[LuckyR]

First of all I miss the Junior Section of TT. But anyway, how do you encourage (or force) the girls to come forward to net to close out points. Of course I'm generalizing when I just mention girls but I see it so often in junior tennis. Girls struggle with this more than boys.

My daughter has transformed into an awesome aggressive baseliner since we changed coaches a year ago. She easily comes to the net when she generates a short ball from her opponent or if the opponent brings her forward with a drop shot or short slice. The problem occurs when she hits a really good shot that pulls her opponent off the court and the opponent has to resort to defensive manuvers (defensive slice, throwing the ball up) to stay in the point. I can literally see my daughter's mental battle with herself at this point. She wants to move forward but she hesitates, let's the ball drop and starts the point all over again. There are multiple points like this in her matches. She practices swinging volleys and traditional volleys all the time in practice but the moment the match starts (even practice matches) she just can't make herself do it. When we discuss this she says that she knows but she is too scared to do it. I repeatedly tell her that we don't care if she loses the point but she won't feel comfortable doing it in matches until she starts doing it in matches. Any thoughts anyone? If she could overcome this mental block it would take her to another level.

You do get that tennis is a Mental game, right?

 

[TennisCJC]

It isn't just junior girls who have net phobia. Novak Djokovic will move into the court, smoke a shot into the corner that puts his opponent on the run, and then proceed to back up behind the baseline. He and Andy Murray do this more than any "great" player I can remember.

Have your daughter play competitive doubles matches might help her feel confident in her net game. In doubles: Have her poach when she starts at net whenever she can. Have her return weak 2nd serves and move in to volley. Have her move in behind the 1st weak ball when she is serving - she doesn't have to play S&V. Doubles rewards the good volley more than singles and might make her see the reward to risk benefit. In singles, she subconsciously decide the risk is not worth the possible reward. In other words, why take a risk where I might get passed, when I can stay back and likely get a weak return to keep the point going.

You might also want to talk to her or have her coach talk to her about percentage tennis. If I can win 70% of the points coming in when I hurt my opponent with an aggressive shot, why should I stay back. Who cares if they pass me 30% of the time.

Also, if she ever plays an attacking player who comes in and defeats her. Use that as an example of what "net pressure" can do. No one like having a good attacking player coming in and forcing them to hit a difficult pass or lob. Sometimes, just their presence at the net forces errors once they have established they can volley and hit overheads.

 

[TCF]

Yup, this is very, very common with both boys and girls. There is no easy answer besides the basics....keep drilling it, play more doubles, the next match she plays have her focus mainly on it, and reward her for doing it when she does. In the end, like anything, it will be up to her to make it part of her game or not.

 

[HoyaPride]

I don't think that's an issue with just juniors. Or that's an issue with just girls for that matter. I think all players are more reluctant to close in at a net compared to players from a generation ago. Women, however, are still less likely to finish at net than men.

IMO, it's largely related to the 2HBH. Like all things in life, the 2HBH comes with a tradeoff. You get better consistency and power from the baseline, but with that consistency comes a tendency to stay put on the baseline. I would even go as far as calling it a complaceny rather than a tendency.

So, in sum, you can't have it all. To my knowledge, there is no NFL QB with Mike Vick speed, Peyton Manning's intelligence and Tom Brady's accuracy. Nor is there a basketball player with Michael Jordan's killer scoring instict and Magic Johnson's point guard skills. There's always a tradeoff in everything.

 

[tennis_ocd]

They don't want to get lobbed. Get them to practise lots of smashes.

Might be part of it.... Surely different reasons for different players but by coming to the net you've suddenly and drastically taken the initiative and (in a somewhat ironic twist of thinking) all pressure is now on you to win the point. Good lob isn't feared as it relieves pressure; soft passing attempt is concern. Need confidence in volley to overcome... or a strong desire to shorten points.

But we're talking junior girl tennis where anything is possible. Much easier to teach a backhand smash or rote practice in following to the net deep bh balls than figure out what they're thinking.

 

[HoyaPride]

It isn't just junior girls who have net phobia. Novak Djokovic will move into the court, smoke a shot into the corner that puts his opponent on the run, and then proceed to back up behind the baseline. He and Andy Murray do this more than any "great" player I can remember.

Have your daughter play competitive doubles matches might help her feel confident in her net game. In doubles: Have her poach when she starts at net whenever she can. Have her return weak 2nd serves and move in to volley. Have her move in behind the 1st weak ball when she is serving - she doesn't have to play S&V. Doubles rewards the good volley more than singles and might make her see the reward to risk benefit. In singles, she subconsciously decide the risk is not worth the possible reward. In other words, why take a risk where I might get passed, when I can stay back and likely get a weak return to keep the point going.

You might also want to talk to her or have her coach talk to her about percentage tennis. If I can win 70% of the points coming in when I hurt my opponent with an aggressive shot, why should I stay back. Who cares if they pass me 30% of the time.

Also, if she ever plays an attacking player who comes in and defeats her. Use that as an example of what "net pressure" can do. No one like having a good attacking player coming in and forcing them to hit a difficult pass or lob. Sometimes, just their presence at the net forces errors once they have established they can volley and hit overheads.

I was just making this same point. Most player seem to have net phobia these days, not just 12 year old girls.

I agree with you on doubles. I think it definitely helps you become more comfortable at net. However, you still see a lot of successful doubles players on the WTA tour that rarely venture into net in their singles matches. The Williams Sisters have won how many Slams in doubles now? But when you watch Serena at net in her singles matches, you would never think that.

There's a difference between playing doubles where you're already standing at net and expected to hit volleys and playing singles where you have to figure out how to work your way to the front of the court.

 

[tennis_ocd]

But when you watch Serena at net in her singles matches, you would never think that.

At *this* level concern over the lob is real. Even most high level women doubles play one up/one back.

For kids I see (hs level stuff), emphasis is on groundstrokes and serve; service winners and who can push the other around on the BL is the goal. Coming to the net to win a point is considered almost a desperation move; essentially conceding the other is a stronger player.

 

[HoyaPride]

At *this* level concern over the lob is real. Even most high level women doubles play one up/one back.

For kids I see (hs level stuff), emphasis is on groundstrokes and serve; service winners and who can push the other around on the BL is the goal. Coming to the net to win a point is considered almost a desperation move; essentially conceding the other is a stronger player.

If I had a daughter, I would use Martina Hingis as a model. She could hang with the big babes on the baseline but possessed much better touch up at net. Just a crafty player all around who was brilliant at constructing points.

Ultimately, though, the player chooses what style of play they want to adopt. But Hingis is not a bad model, imo.

 

[MurrayMyInspiration]

Volleying is really hard for weak girls.
Smashing is really hard for weak girls.
It is much easier to hit groundstrokes than volleys for young girls. They dont have the wrist strength to handle powerful passing shots.

 

[dufferok]

I've been to several 10 and Under tennis tournaments in my area. The top three 10 and Under female players in our state, come to the net far more often than any of the other players. That's how they've been taught and how they have been trained...all three are members at the same facility. The remaining female junior players rarely come to the net. So I would venture to say that for some (not all) it is a reflection of how they are taught and trained. Personally, when I take my daughters out to hit, we spend equal time at the net as we do on baseline drills. As a result, they have no fear or hesitation to approach the net.

 

[HoyaPride]

Volleying is really hard for weak girls.
Smashing is really hard for weak girls.
It is much easier to hit groundstrokes than volleys for young girls. They dont have the wrist strength to handle powerful passing shots.

They can hit powerful groundstrokes off of serves but they can't hit volleys?:-?

You don't need great wrist strength to have a proficient volley and overhead. Martina Hingis was not a big, strong girl.

 

[MurrayMyInspiration]

They can hit powerful groundstrokes off of serves but they can't hit volleys?:-?

You don't need great wrist strength to have a proficient volley and overhead. Martina Hingis was not a big, strong girl.

Yes, groundstrokes are easy to hit hard. Volleys are difficult control, you need a lot of wrist strength.

I coach young kids and it is very hard for young girls especially to hit deep volleys when the ball is blasted at them at the net.

You need a very strong wrist to punch volleys when you are young, and with hard yellow balls it is even harder for them to control it.

 

[GuyClinch]

Juniors play the style that gets them wins. This thread reminds me of the people that thought that Roddick should come in behind his big serve..

 

[TCF]

I've been to several 10 and Under tennis tournaments in my area. The top three 10 and Under female players in our state, come to the net far more often than any of the other players. That's how they've been taught and how they have been trained...all three are members at the same facility. The remaining female junior players rarely come to the net. So I would venture to say that for some (not all) it is a reflection of how they are taught and trained. Personally, when I take my daughters out to hit, we spend equal time at the net as we do on baseline drills. As a result, they have no fear or hesitation to approach the net.

Very true about the 10 and unders. Especially with the green dots, the girls who come to the T or net can dominate and can be 'top 10s' for whatever that is worth. But that changes quickly as they age up. By the 12s the girls who grow quickly are so big, strong, and accurate that they will hit screaming passing shots.

So the 'top 10s' are rarely the top 12s and top 14s. It is what it is, the reason many players do not come to the net is the equipment and sheer power of the players do not reward that style enough. Down here in SE FL the top 12 girls are so dang big and strong and powerful. The girls who think the 10s style of playing from inside the baseline will work, attacking balls at the T or net, get crushed by the 12s-14s.

In almost every case so far the 10s green dot queens end up faltering badly in the 12s.

 

[HoyaPride]

Yes, groundstrokes are easy to hit hard. Volleys are difficult control, you need a lot of wrist strength.

You don't need a lot of wrist strength. You just need good reflexes and proper technique. It's not like young girls are facing Andre Agassi passing shots every time they come into net anyway. You don't need much wrist strength to punch away a floater.

I coach young kids and it is very hard for young girls especially to hit deep volleys when the ball is blasted at them at the net.

How many times does Martina Hingis have the ball blasted at her at net in this video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9A_L8xyg8g

Closing in at net to finish the point is an alternative to waiting for the ball to float back and hit another groundstroke. Nobody's talking about going full blown Pat Rafter mode.

 

[NLBwell]

1) Because they aren't taught how to play at the net properly from an early age.
2) Because it is a losing proposition until they become older, taller, and stronger.

This is a case where it must be practiced and used in practice matches. If the player is focused on winning their matches (or, more likely, not losing them) rather than improving, they will not want to come to the net.

 

[barringer97]

TCF:

I have a question for you. I think our daughters are relatively close in age, my daughter turns 9 soon and is in the 3rd grade.

We are in NorCal. The only ten and under is Orange. She has done well in some Green Dot 12 and under. In 3 of the last 4 tourneys, she has lost in the finals twice and semi's the other time. The other time she got smoked.

She only practices with yellow, so a lot of the shots she misses are the short green dot shots that she would usually get with yellow.

In Norcal, the break it down:

12 and under novice (green)
12 and under challenger (yellow)
12 and under open (yellow)

I've seen some challenger level play and they are pretty good, my daughter wouldn't do well, but she might learn a lot. The only thing is the size of some of these girls, just a lot bigger then my daughter.

I'm kind of lost on what to do. Keep her playing the green 12 and under or just say f it and move up to challenger and start taking the beatings.

After watching the "green dot winners" over and over last weekend, it really ticked me off.

 

[MurrayMyInspiration]

You don't need a lot of wrist strength. You just need good reflexes and proper technique. It's not like young girls are facing Andre Agassi passing shots every time they come into net anyway. You don't need much wrist strength to punch away a floater.



How many times does Martina Hingis have the ball blasted at her at net in this video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9A_L8xyg8g

Closing in at net to finish the point is an alternative to waiting for the ball to float back and hit another groundstroke. Nobody's talking about going full blown Pat Rafter mode.

She is a multiple grand slam champion. The discussion is about a young junior girl.

Have you ever seen a young girl play tennis?
No young girl has the strength to (EASILY AND CONSISTENTLY) guide groundstrokes deep in the court and then move back swiftly to smash away the lob. If you dont know that you need to watch more junior girl tennis.

 

[TCF]

I also have not found that to be the case on volleys. We have 7-8-9 year old girls who volley great.

I went to a Russian academy this summer and saw a girl 2 weeks past her 6th birthday having balls shot at her with a Playmate machine. She hit great voileys.

It sounds more like a technique or training issue. You should have the kids use the conti grip for a while first. Have them hit hundreds of ups and downs, catch balls, do wrist snaps, etc....all with the conti grip. In a few weeks they will volley just fine.

 

[MurrayMyInspiration]

2) Because it is a losing proposition until they become older, taller, and stronger.

This X10 . Pay attention the guy I was discussing junior girl volleys with!

 

[TCF]

TCF:

I have a question for you. I think our daughters are relatively close in age, my daughter turns 9 soon and is in the 3rd grade.

We are in NorCal. The only ten and under is Orange. She has done well in some Green Dot 12 and under. In 3 of the last 4 tourneys, she has lost in the finals twice and semi's the other time. The other time she got smoked.

She only practices with yellow, so a lot of the shots she misses are the short green dot shots that she would usually get with yellow.

In Norcal, the break it down:

12 and under novice (green)
12 and under challenger (yellow)
12 and under open (yellow)

I've seen some challenger level play and they are pretty good, my daughter wouldn't do well, but she might learn a lot. The only thing is the size of some of these girls, just a lot bigger then my daughter.

I'm kind of lost on what to do. Keep her playing the green 12 and under or just say f it and move up to challenger and start taking the beatings.

After watching the "green dot winners" over and over last weekend, it really ticked me off.

Play the yellows. I made that mistake and played 3 green dots 10s. My girl went 9-2 in singles, but the girls she lost to were 'green dot queens'.

Its a different game. These girls ruling green dots are using short balls or lobs or taking balls out of the air from all over the court. But when these girls play yellow, they get smoked. My kid got crushed in a green dot match by a girl she beats 6-0 in yellows.

That being said, they have to have proper technique before doing yellows. If you use green dots as a technique builder, great. But forget about who is dominating the 10s, its worthless.

We played a G12 last week. She won the first match and lost the second....the girl she lost to turns 13 in 6 weeks so the age difference was huge. But she got to battle for 2.5 hours and play real tennis, not the silliness that is most green dots.

Also down here they play on clay. So the green dots get ridiculous after a few games and at that point its really a game unlike the yellows at all.

 

[HoyaPride]

This X10 . Pay attention the guy I was discussing junior girl volleys with!

He said "until they become older, taller and stronger." So if your priority is winning matcher right now, then yes, it's easier hanging around the baseline. Then again, nobody's suggesting that 12-year old girls become Boris Becker. I'm saying that the earlier you can get them in the habit of moving forward into the court, the better it is for their long-term development.

In fact, I think moving forward is even good in the short term. At my club, I hit with a lot of girls who hit very well when given pace. But once you start slowballing them, they become much less effective. For some reason, however, all girls get out on court and blast away from the baseline. There's something to be learned from that old, arthritic guy who busts apart good rhythm players using little dinks and short slices. Those are the balls you want to come in on, not cross court forehands hit at 75 mph.

Most people fail at net simply because they don't know which shots to come in on in the first place. Yeah, if you come behind a hard hit cross court backhand, the chances of you getting passed (or getting a ball at your feet) is high. If you come into net behind a well-disguised drop shot, it's a completely different story. When you look at someone like Martina Hingis, she's coming in off of drop shots and short slices, not powerful groundies.

 

[TCF]

He said "until they become older, taller and stronger." So if your priority is winning matcher right now, then yes, it's easier hanging around the baseline. Then again, nobody's suggesting that 12-year old girls become Boris Becker. I'm saying that the earlier you can get them in the habit of moving forward into the court, the better it is for their long-term development.

In fact, I think moving forward is even good in the short term. At my club, I hit with a lot of girls who hit very well when given pace. But once you start slowballing them, they become much less effective. For some reason, however, all girls get out on court and blast away from the baseline. There's something to be learned from that old, arthritic guy who busts apart good rhythm players using little dinks and short slices. Those are the balls you want to come in on, not cross court forehands hit at 75 mph.

Most people fail at net simply because they don't know which shots to come in on in the first place. Yeah, if you come behind a hard hit cross court backhand, the chances of you getting passed (or getting a ball at your feet) is high. If you come into net behind a well-disguised drop shot, it's a completely different story. When you look at someone like Martina Hingis, she's coming in off of drop shots and short slices, not powerful groundies.

Its all about tennis levels and the future. Hingis likely would not play the same way if she played at the top of the WTA today. She would not get enough balls to do her thing with. The equipment has changed, the power and accuracy of the top women has changed.

Same with what you describe. True, at the lower junior levels, they would have huge problems with junk balls and short balls. So your style could eat them up.

But not at the higher levels. Hurricane Black hits screaming deep top spin from corner to corner. Its impossible to get enough balls to do what you would like to do with them. You can not hit a disguised drop shot when you are running to the corner trying to catch up to a high, deep, spinning screamer.

But yeah, low level juniors/adults it would work.

 

[HoyaPride]

I also have not found that to be the case on volleys. We have 7-8-9 year old girls who volley great.

I went to a Russian academy this summer and saw a girl 2 weeks past her 6th birthday having balls shot at her with a Playmate machine. She hit great voileys.

It sounds more like a technique or training issue. You should have the kids use the conti grip for a while first. Have them hit hundreds of ups and downs, catch balls, do wrist snaps, etc....all with the conti grip. In a few weeks they will volley just fine.

Yeah. I don't think wrist strength has anything to do with it. I see young girls (and boys) who hit very good volleys from a stationary position. But moving into position to use that technique within the context of a singles match is a very different thing.

The fact of the matter is that most people suck at volleying and overheads. It's not just young girls. Most people will come out to the club and just rally. They might play a set or two. And the points will feature quite a bit of good hitting until it's time to move up to net. 9 times out of 10, the point will end with a pass (because the net rusher made himself a sitting duck), a badly botched volley or a badly botched overhead. The player who can follow behind shortballs and put away volleys and overheads consistently is rare (among men and women).

 

[TCF]

Yeah. I don't think wrist strength has anything to do with it. I see young girls (and boys) who hit very good volleys from a stationary position. But moving into position to use that technique within the context of a singles match is a very different thing.

The fact of the matter is that most people suck at volleying and overheads. It's not just young girls. Most people will come out to the club and just rally. They might play a set or two. And the points will feature quite a bit of good hitting until it's time to move up to net. 9 times out of 10, the point will end with a pass (because the net rusher made himself a sitting duck), a badly botched volley or a badly botched overhead. The player who can follow behind shortballs and put away volleys and overheads consistently is rare (among men and women).

Agree 100%

 

[HoyaPride]

Its all about tennis levels and the future. Hingis likely would not play the same way if she played at the top of the WTA today. She would not get enough balls to do her thing with. The equipment has changed, the power and accuracy of the top women has changed.

I don't know if I agree with that. Hingis, imo, was a breath of fresh air because the game seemed to be moving in the direction of the Davenports, Williamses and Mauresmos. She was able to neutralize their power by using her variety and good court tactics. She was really the Roger Federer of the women's game (but with the coke, injuries and bad attitude).

Same with what you describe. True, at the lower junior levels, they would have huge problems with junk balls and short balls. So your style could eat them up.

But not at the higher levels. Hurricane Black hits screaming deep top spin from corner to corner. Its impossible to get enough balls to do what you would like to do with them. You can not hit a disguised drop shot when you are running to the corner trying to catch up to a high, deep, spinning screamer.

I actually got to see Tornado Black play at the ITFs in Maryland this summer.

I think those shots work at all levels. Federer puts balls in places where it's difficult for guys to attack them effectively. I felt Hingis did the same thing. It's hard to believe that's the case until someone actually comes along and does it.

 

[HoyaPride]

Not to get too far off topic, but if Hingis had stayed healthy (and stayed off the coke), who on the modern tour would be able to consistently beat her other than Serena?

 

[TCF]

I hear you Hoya. I agree there no doubt is room for more variety and all court tennis.

My girl is learning a low slice that skids very low on the court. Amazing how many easy points she is starting to win from the deep baseliners.

 

[TCF]

Not to get too far off topic, but if Hingis had stayed healthy (and stayed off the coke), who on the modern tour would be able to consistently beat her other than Serena?

I would have loved to see her play the 6 foot ball bashers week after week. It would have been a refreshing change of style. Also maybe more young girls would give it a try.

 

[HoyaPride]

I hear you Hoya. I agree there no doubt is room for more variety and all court tennis.

My girl is learning a low slice that skids very low on the court. Amazing how many easy points she is starting to win from the deep baseliners.

Oh yeah. If she can learn to move girls from front to back with those low, short slices, then she'll have a major advantage. It's the front-to-back, not so much the side-to-side lateral movement that gives most players problems.

An even bigger advantage is actually learning when to come into net (and being able to execute when you're there). I only see a handful of players like that. For most players (talking club and junior level), the net rush is mostly a bluff. But when a guy has a really good volley and overhead, it's intimidating because your passing shots and lobs have to be precise. You just can't hit the ball up in the air and hope that he misses. Psychologically, you feel like he's all over you, much like a fighter stalking you around the ring and not giving you a chance to breathe.

 

[barringer97]

Play the yellows. I made that mistake and played 3 green dots 10s. My girl went 9-2 in singles, but the girls she lost to were 'green dot queens'.

Its a different game. These girls ruling green dots are using short balls or lobs or taking balls out of the air from all over the court. But when these girls play yellow, they get smoked. My kid got crushed in a green dot match by a girl she beats 6-0 in yellows.

That being said, they have to have proper technique before doing yellows. If you use green dots as a technique builder, great. But forget about who is dominating the 10s, its worthless.

We played a G12 last week. She won the first match and lost the second....the girl she lost to turns 13 in 6 weeks so the age difference was huge. But she got to battle for 2.5 hours and play real tennis, not the silliness that is most green dots.

Also down here they play on clay. So the green dots get ridiculous after a few games and at that point its really a game unlike the yellows at all.

Thanks, that is what my gut is telling me.

 

[HoyaPride]

I would have loved to see her play the 6 foot ball bashers week after week. It would have been a refreshing change of style. Also maybe more young girls would give it a try.

Yeah, she had a nice game. They must be doing something right in Switzerland. When Federer first started winning Slams, I remember some people referring to him as the male version of the Swiss Miss. The comparison is a good one, imo, because they both bust up players with bigger games through variety.

I think Justine Henin is another good player to model your game on (for men and women). Small woman, but technically excellent strokes and volleys. She was also good at picking the right balls to come in on. The days of Edberg-Becker net rushing may be over, but that doesn't mean you have to sit and watch ball after ball float back to the baseline. I see that a lot even on the men's side (and I hate it).

 

[TCF]

Oh yeah. If she can learn to move girls from front to back with those low, short slices, then she'll have a major advantage. It's the front-to-back, not so much the side-to-side lateral movement that gives most players problems.

An even bigger advantage is actually learning when to come into net (and being able to execute when you're there). I only see a handful of players like that. For most players (talking club and junior level), the net rush is mostly a bluff. But when a guy has a really good volley and overhead, it's intimidating because your passing shots and lobs have to be precise. You just can't hit the ball up in the air and hope that he misses. Psychologically, you feel like he's all over you, much like a fighter stalking you around the ring and not giving you a chance to breathe.

Good stuff Hoya. Its funny how her slice came about. There are 2 older guys from India who play in our neighborhood. They both have the most amazing low slices. At first we would kind of chuckle as thats all they do.

Then one day on our ball machine my kid started to try them. After a few weeks she developed a super low skidding slice. No coaching, just watching and trail and error.

She tried it recently in a match and won some easy points. so now its a matter of learning the proper disguise and when to use it.

 

[Tcbtennis]

Thanks for the great replies. I've read some very helpful things. Just to expand a bit, my daughter is 16 years old. She is 5'10", strong and athletic. With the coaching change she has been transformed from a brainless ball basher to a player who dictates with her forehand. All credit to her new coach who added topspin to her groundstrokes. He has also improved her volleying technique that had her go from losing 80-90% net points to winning 70-75% of the points when she is on top of the net. It's that mid court ball when her opponent is scrambling on defense that causes her to freeze and hesitate. And, yes it is seen in boys as well and in some pros too.

She is average doubles player because she is the one who will stay at the baseline and will only venture forward when she gets a short ball. She is an OK poacher when she is at the net. It's definitely a mindset that she has that needs to change. At practice when the coaches tell her to serve and volley she does so but she's not comfortable with it.

It was a match that she played this weekend in the finals of a local tournament that prompted me to start this thread. She played so well and lost in a third set supertiebreak. She played against an excellent player and stood toe to toe with her. As my daughter was bigger and stronger she had many opportunities to take control of some rallies but that hesitation with the defensive mid court balls maybe was difference between winning and losing. It's a recurring problem that needs to get fixed.

 

[TCF]

Thanks, that is what my gut is telling me.

You know your kid barringer. If she can handle the losses and would rather play vs stronger kids, go for it.

We did 3 green dots and accomplished very little. But in the yellow balls she played an 11 year old excellent player and they battled for 2 hours. The next day like I said she played a nice older player for 2.5 hours.

They do take their lumps in the 12s when they are so young, but they hit hard, cover the court, and play real tennis.

 

[TCF]

Thanks for the great replies. I've read some very helpful things. Just to expand a bit, my daughter is 16 years old. She is 5'10", strong and athletic. With the coaching change she has been transformed from a brainless ball basher to a player who dictates with her forehand. All credit to her new coach who added topspin to her groundstrokes. He has also improved her volleying technique that had her go from losing 80-90% net points to winning 70-75% of the points when she is on top of the net. It's that mid court ball when her opponent is scrambling on defense that causes her to freeze and hesitate. And, yes it is seen in boys as well and in some pros too.

She is average doubles player because she is the one who will stay at the baseline and will only venture forward when she gets a short ball. She is an OK poacher when she is at the net. It's definitely a mindset that she has that needs to change. At practice when the coaches tell her to serve and volley she does so but she's not comfortable with it.

It was a match that she played this weekend in the finals of a local tournament that prompted me to start this thread. She played so well and lost in a third set supertiebreak. She played against an excellent player and stood toe to toe with her. As my daughter was bigger and stronger she had many opportunities to take control of some rallies but that hesitation with the defensive mid court balls maybe was difference between winning and losing. It's a recurring problem that needs to get fixed.

Good luck. Design some drills that make her come up and attack over and over. I know exactly what you mean. So many times they hesitate when they could come in and put away an easy point. Instead they prolonged the rallies, sometimes going 20-30 balls.

 

[wannabe good]

Thanks for the great replies. I've read some very helpful things. Just to expand a bit, my daughter is 16 years old. She is 5'10", strong and athletic. With the coaching change she has been transformed from a brainless ball basher to a player who dictates with her forehand. All credit to her new coach who added topspin to her groundstrokes. He has also improved her volleying technique that had her go from losing 80-90% net points to winning 70-75% of the points when she is on top of the net. It's that mid court ball when her opponent is scrambling on defense that causes her to freeze and hesitate. And, yes it is seen in boys as well and in some pros too.

She is average doubles player because she is the one who will stay at the baseline and will only venture forward when she gets a short ball. She is an OK poacher when she is at the net. It's definitely a mindset that she has that needs to change. At practice when the coaches tell her to serve and volley she does so but she's not comfortable with it.

It was a match that she played this weekend in the finals of a local tournament that prompted me to start this thread. She played so well and lost in a third set supertiebreak. She played against an excellent player and stood toe to toe with her. As my daughter was bigger and stronger she had many opportunities to take control of some rallies but that hesitation with the defensive mid court balls maybe was difference between winning and losing. It's a recurring problem that needs to get fixed.

Have her play points against another girl where a wining a point while behind a baseline is worth 1, inside of the baseline 2, and inside the service line - 3 points.

 

[5263]

confidence........

 

[coaching32yrs]

Tcb. Problem with your girl and most juniors is that they are nervous at the net, which makes muscles tense. Tense muscles cannot move, they cannot split step on balls of feet and move quickly. Doesn't matter how good they volley if they can't move at the net- they will get passed (see pg 49-50 of "Winning Ugly"). I have seen this many times with my students. Have your daughter drop down 1 or 2 USTA levels and come to the net a lot against the weaker players.

 

[Timbo's hopeless slice]

i am a little surprised nobody has mentioned the obvious, height and reach..

factor in the reality that decent juniors can all hit a genuine topspin lob off either wing and the net becomes a very risky place to be..

no point having flawless volleys if the ball is ten feet over your head...

 

[TCF]

i am a little surprised nobody has mentioned the obvious, height and reach..

factor in the reality that decent juniors can all hit a genuine topspin lob off either wing and the net becomes a very risky place to be..

no point having flawless volleys if the ball is ten feet over your head...

Height and reach? Thats not the issue. He said his daughter is 5'10".....not sure how much taller she would need to be in juniors, she is as tall as most women pros already.

Obviously as others said, you only go in behind strong balls that have a low percentage of being returned 10 feet over your head. Thats net rushing 101.....you go in behind balls that have a good chance of being returned where you can volley them, if they are returned at all.

 

[Timbo's hopeless slice]

oh, my bad, but that is a specific case in a general discussion?

(ie, 'why do junior girls avoid the net')

edit, finally found the post to which you refer, apparently she is also 16!!

that's a rather different discussion, surely? I can see why someone mentioned Hingis, now, she won Wimbledon at a similar age!

and if you can't hit a fast paced topspin lob ten feet over teh head of a 'normal human'. I suggest you need to work on your topspin lob!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5PyPDCCAaE

look at the one over Safin at 0:38, that's a long way over a very tall guy...

 

[TCF]

oh, my bad, but that is a specific case in a general discussion?

(ie, 'why do junior girls avoid the net')

Yes, but even in general terms its not height if they come in behind strong balls. They should only go in behind balls that have low probabilities of the opponent hitting a great shot. Our issue is juniors do not even come in behind balls that most likely will result in an easy short put away.

If you come in behind a weak ball, you will get lobbed, no matter if you are 4'9" or 6'4".

 

[Timbo's hopeless slice]

Yes I get it, perhaps I have too many Sampras obsessed clients who want their children to 'rush the net 'cos it worked for pistol Pete and Pat Rafter'

because those guys are totally typical...

Coach your damn kids yourself, then... lol

 

[spaceman_spiff]

The problem occurs when she hits a really good shot that pulls her opponent off the court and the opponent has to resort to defensive manuvers (defensive slice, throwing the ball up) to stay in the point. I can literally see my daughter's mental battle with herself at this point. She wants to move forward but she hesitates, let's the ball drop and starts the point all over again. There are multiple points like this in her matches. She practices swinging volleys and traditional volleys all the time in practice but the moment the match starts (even practice matches) she just can't make herself do it.

You say that your daughter practices traditional volleys and swinging volleys. Does she do this in a situation where she stands in one spot and hits these shots over and over? Or, does she do a drill that makes her start from the baseline, move in, and hit a volley to finish off the point?

I didn't really learn how to finish off points with high volleys until I started playing practice sets with unwritten rules for myself that forced me to move in to the net. For example, against one practice buddy, I didn't allow myself to go for any winners from the baseline (unless he came to net). Against another buddy, I had to go S&V on every serve.

This forced me to learn how to pull my opponent out of position, force a weak shot, and finish off while moving in. Now, when I'm having one of those nervy days where I'm hesitant to go for winners from the baseline, I know I can just work my opponent around until I can get a weak ball and finish with a volley.

 

[Tcbtennis]

You say that your daughter practices traditional volleys and swinging volleys. Does she do this in a situation where she stands in one spot and hits these shots over and over? Or, does she do a drill that makes her start from the baseline, move in, and hit a volley to finish off the point?

I didn't really learn how to finish off points with high volleys until I started playing practice sets with unwritten rules for myself that forced me to move in to the net. For example, against one practice buddy, I didn't allow myself to go for any winners from the baseline (unless he came to net). Against another buddy, I had to go S&V on every serve.

This forced me to learn how to pull my opponent out of position, force a weak shot, and finish off while moving in. Now, when I'm having one of those nervy days where I'm hesitant to go for winners from the baseline, I know I can just work my opponent around until I can get a weak ball and finish with a volley.

She does both drills where her coach feeds balls from the basket to fine tune her technique and live ball where he rallies with her and unexpectedly throws up a floaty ball which she has to recognize as the ball to take out of the air.

She is going to have to force herself during training to come forward when she has her practice partner on defense and forget about winning or losing the point. I keep telling her that it doesn't come via osmosis.

 

[Tcbtennis]

Tcb. Problem with your girl and most juniors is that they are nervous at the net, which makes muscles tense. Tense muscles cannot move, they cannot split step on balls of feet and move quickly. Doesn't matter how good they volley if they can't move at the net- they will get passed (see pg 49-50 of "Winning Ugly"). I have seen this many times with my students. Have your daughter drop down 1 or 2 USTA levels and come to the net a lot against the weaker players.

She is definitely nervous. And your right, the best way to overcome this nervousness during matches is to have her come in a lot against girls who she doesn't think that she'll lose to. It's that fear of not just losing the point but also losing the match that prevents her from doing what she needs to do.

 

[EP1998]

Try to build this into her practices in a different way, with pressure. For example, play practice sets and if she comes in successfully at any point in the game, she wins that game. If she gets rewarded in a big way it might encourage her more. Part of it is that she needs to see it in a point, and get rewarded for acting on it in a no pressure situation. Also practice the swinging volley over and over again, being able to hit that from the mid-court is the best shot for many girls who feel less confident at the net and will build confidence moving forward. Also, watch youtube of the player that beat Wozinacki in the US Open. She did a nice job of attacking the net using the swinging volley.