Why do kids play Jr. USTA tournaments instead of UTR matches?

[topspinnerMN]

I signed my kid for a USTA tournament not knowing what to expect. They seem to take your entire weekend. He plays a match on Friday. Then he has to wait a few hours for the next round. Then come back the next day for another round or two. Then come back again on Sunday for the semi finals / finals. That was his first and last USTA tournament as it seemed like a huge waste of his time and my time. I just take him to UTR matches where he plays 2 matches in 4 hours, back to back and we are done.
I know kids play these tournaments to get their ranking but none of these kids are in the national top 2000 for their age. Why not just play UTR matches till they get their rating high enough to match the kids in top 500 for their age and then play USTA tournaments instead of wasting their weekends just waiting for their turn? Am I missing something?

 

[J011yroger]

I'm sorry that your child's tennis is wasting your time.

Most tennis players enjoy playing several days in a row, and require recovery time between matches.

J

 

[LOBALOT]

I signed my kid for a USTA tournament not knowing what to expect. They seem to take your entire weekend. He plays a match on Friday. Then he has to wait a few hours for the next round. Then come back the next day for another round or two. Then come back again on Sunday for the semi finals / finals. That was his first and last USTA tournament as it seemed like a huge waste of his time and my time. I just take him to UTR matches where he plays 2 matches in 4 hours, back to back and we are done.
I know kids play these tournaments to get their ranking but none of these kids are in the national top 2000 for their age. Why not just play UTR matches till they get their rating high enough to match the kids in top 500 for their age and then play USTA tournaments instead of wasting their weekends just waiting for their turn? Am I missing something?

We had a blast with it. I would enjoy every minute of it as "poof" before you know it they are grown and out of the house. I miss those times and some of the best times our family had. My son developed so much confidence and independence and ability to problem solve out of adversity.

You don't find competition like that in UTR tournaments.

 

[topspinnerMN]

I'm sorry that your child's tennis is wasting your time.

Most tennis players enjoy playing several days in a row, and require recovery time between matches.

J

How am I supposed to keep him busy for 3 hours before the next round? He has others things like school assignments, play dates, birthday parties, basket ball matches etc.

 

[LOBALOT]

How am I supposed to keep him busy for 3 hours before the next round? He has others things like school assignments, play dates, birthday parties, basket ball matches etc.

Golly, it was simple. I assume your son is in school. Bring homework!!!

We traveled a lot to tournaments leaving and driving until late into the evening on Friday so after his Saturday morning first round match I would take a nap and he would do homework. He would then loosen up perhaps on the hotel treadmill and then we would get to the club about 1/2 an hour early for his next match. We would then repeat.

I just posted on another thread he ended up with a 4.0+ GPA in high school and we would travel to 2 or more tournaments a month. It worked.

 

[travlerajm]

30+ years ago, I played usta juniors. I only played 2 years of it - 2nd year 16s and 1st year 18s - those were great times. I learned how to compete, and how to win and lose gracefully. Lessons that keep giving in other areas of life.

 

[J011yroger]

How am I supposed to keep him busy for 3 hours before the next round? He has others things like school assignments, play dates, birthday parties, basket ball matches etc.

Come off the court, talk while you cool down, stretch a little, grab a snack, do some homework and talk to friends and pretty soon it's time to start warming up for the next match.

I've flown somewhere for a week to play 4 matches. Loved every minute, (in the moment I didn't love the backhand volley I dumped in the net on match point) this is why we play, to go do things.

J

 

[Friedman Whip]

I signed my kid for a USTA tournament not knowing what to expect. They seem to take your entire weekend. He plays a match on Friday. Then he has to wait a few hours for the next round. Then come back the next day for another round or two. Then come back again on Sunday for the semi finals / finals. That was his first and last USTA tournament as it seemed like a huge waste of his time and my time. I just take him to UTR matches where he plays 2 matches in 4 hours, back to back and we are done.
I know kids play these tournaments to get their ranking but none of these kids are in the national top 2000 for their age. Why not just play UTR matches till they get their rating high enough to match the kids in top 500 for their age and then play USTA tournaments instead of wasting their weekends just waiting for their turn? Am I missing something?

Well at least your son will be retiring as a finalist (or winner?) in his one and only USTA tournament.

 

[ktx]

Some of my fondest childhood memories are spending time with my dad at tournaments. And then getting older and traveling with friends and our pros. It’s very formative if you’re serious about tennis. Also it’s fun to watch your friends play. For local tournaments we just got dropped off all day with a bunch of water and snacks but idk if that’s allowed anymore.

 

[Bud]

I signed my kid for a USTA tournament not knowing what to expect. They seem to take your entire weekend. He plays a match on Friday. Then he has to wait a few hours for the next round. Then come back the next day for another round or two. Then come back again on Sunday for the semi finals / finals. That was his first and last USTA tournament as it seemed like a huge waste of his time and my time. I just take him to UTR matches where he plays 2 matches in 4 hours, back to back and we are done.
I know kids play these tournaments to get their ranking but none of these kids are in the national top 2000 for their age. Why not just play UTR matches till they get their rating high enough to match the kids in top 500 for their age and then play USTA tournaments instead of wasting their weekends just waiting for their turn? Am I missing something?

Try the other approach with UTR.

Also, find a variety of other players in your area that are slightly better than your son and set up matches or hitting sessions - even if you have to pay. It's worth it for the experience and you're not spending so much time playing tournaments. There are many ways to improve.

I've hit with kids that are really good and enjoy it. I'm impressed when a youngster half my size can go toe to toe with me.

 

[LOBALOT]

Try the other approach with UTR.

Also, find a variety of other players in your area that are slightly better than your son and set up matches or hitting sessions - even if you have to pay. It's worth it for the experience and you're not spending so much time playing tournaments. There are many ways to improve.

I've hit with kids that are really good and enjoy it. I'm impressed when a youngster half my size can go toe to toe with me.

The problem with UTR in our area is the top out at about 4-5 UTR.

The Summer ITAs which are UTR are very good but those are designed for college kids although some future college kids enter them. These though have higher UTRs.

 

[mcs1970]

Richard Williams didn’t go the USTA route when his kids were really young. It worked out for him. So there are alternate paths.

However note that for every Richard Williams there are many, many other parents who try to chart a course for their child to achieve athletic greatness but fail.

OP you are a 5.5 and your child seems talented but listen carefully as to what he wants too than let your expectations guide.

He is still a child. You might think you are listening but in the other thread you mentioned your child quits when faced with adversity. He is telling you indirectly that he would rather not be there even though you claim how he loves to play and is always ready. There you decided what age group was best for him even though he seems totally ill equipped mentally to handle adversity ( no surprise. He is a 9 year old child). Now you are deciding what type of tournaments are best for him.

Ask him what he prefers when it comes to 3 day tournaments than ask us or decide for him. Don’t look at it strictly in terms of what it would get for him in terms of tennis rankings or look at it is a waste of time, as much as you doing your part to help him enjoy what he is currently doing. A couple of years from now he might not even be interested in tennis. Just provide support for whatever he wants to do when it comes to extracurricular activities.

Ethics and respect for elders are the only things you shouldn’t compromise on.

 

[LOBALOT]

Richard Williams didn’t go the USTA route when his kids were really young. It worked out for him. So there are alternate paths.

However note that for every Richard Williams there are many, many other parents who try to chart a course for their child to achieve athletic greatness but fail.

OP you are a 5.5 and your child seems talented but listen carefully as to what he wants too than let your expectations guide.

He is still a child. You might think you are listening but in the other thread you mentioned your child quits when faced with adversity. He is telling you indirectly that he would rather not be there even though you claim how he loves to play and is always ready. There you decided what age group was best for him even though he seems totally ill equipped mentally to handle adversity ( no surprise. He is a 9 year old child). Now you are deciding what type of tournaments are best for him.

Ask him what he prefers when it comes to 3 day tournaments than ask us or decide for him. Don’t look at it strictly in terms of what it would get for him in terms of tennis rankings or look at it is a waste of time, as much as you doing your part to help him enjoy what he is currently doing. A couple of years from now he might not even be interested in tennis. Just provide support for whatever he wants to do when it comes to extracurricular activities.

Ethics and respect for elders are the only things you shouldn’t compromise on.

Right, but then Mr. Williams stole time and never paid the pros that taught them so maybe that is a workable approach.

I do agree it is the kids choice vs. asking here or deciding for him as there is nothing worse than watching a USTA match where one of the kids does not want to be there. It is very sad to see.

 

[TennisCJC]

Compromise is a great tool. Would it be possible to play a few tournaments and UTR matches as a compromise. If you kid loves the game and has talent, my opinion is they should play tournaments to play against the best competition and get involved in a junior "academy" of some sort where they hit a lot with juniors at their level. Most of the local public and private facilities in my city have junior programs with fairly decent coaching. These groups meet several days a week but the kids live at home and don't require you to send little junior off to an IMG type academy to live.

 

[topspinnerMN]

Compromise is a great tool. Would it be possible to play a few tournaments and UTR matches as a compromise. If you kid loves the game and has talent, my opinion is they should play tournaments to play against the best competition and get involved in a junior "academy" of some sort where they hit a lot with juniors at their level. Most of the local public and private facilities in my city have junior programs with fairly decent coaching. These groups meet several days a week but the kids live at home and don't require you to send little junior off to an IMG type academy to live.

How is a USTA tournament different from UTR? He plays weekly UTR matches. That helps him identify the weakness in his game and has a full week to work on that. Rinse and repeat weekly. He already spends 14 hours a week on tennis courts. So spending a whole weekend on a USTA tournament will be taking time away from his other activities. He knows where he stands compared to other players based on UTR ratings so we don't care about USTA rankings. Most of the kids who play USTA do play UTR matches too here in MN. So he still gets to play everyone at his level.

 

[LOBALOT]

How is a USTA tournament different from UTR? He plays weekly UTR matches. That helps him identify the weakness in his game and has a full week to work on that. Rinse and repeat weekly. He already spends 14 hours a week on tennis courts. So spending a whole weekend on a USTA tournament will be taking time away from his other activities. He knows where he stands compared to other players based on UTR ratings so we don't care about USTA rankings. Most of the kids who play USTA do play UTR matches too here in MN. So he still gets to play everyone at his level.

The level of play is better. There is no limit to ones UTR that enters for a particular age group. However, it is your kid.

You have convinced me. Stick with UTR and enjoy your weekends.

 

[Chas Tennis]

What are the costs of UTR tournaments vs USTA tournaments?

Are there consolation rounds?

 

[topspinnerMN]

What are the costs of UTR tournaments vs USTA tournaments?

Are there consolation rounds?

UTR is cheaper but you only get to play 2 matches back to back for $35. USTA is $65 but you get to play 3 matches (sometimes 4) depending on the draw size. UTR doesn't have consolation rounds. USTA does.

 

[Sea70]

There’s a big difference between utr matches and tournaments. Whether it be usta or utr tournaments.

Utr matches are more practice matches.

Let him play a few tournaments where he will be seeded number 1 or 2. This might be some pressure for him where he’s expected to do well but if he’s a decent player, he’s going to have to eventually learn this. Also see how he does deeper in the tournament like semi or finals. You can explain this over and over but alot of junior players don’t understand the importance of conditioning until they start getting deeper into tournaments and not having the mental or physical energy to close.

If he walks right through this, age him up to 12s or play a higher level In his age group.

 

[nyta2]

I just take him to UTR matches where he plays 2 matches in 4 hours, back to back and we are done.

makes sense for low level players (eg. utr1-4), especially if you or your child are committed to playing tennis full time (like high level kids are). low level utr players can probably play even 3-4 matches in a day (if enough people), as they are doing more missing than running.
higher level utr tournaments (eg. utr5+) are typically 2 matches in early rounds, and 1 match in later rounds...

guessing you're comparing tennis to your local rec activities (eg. basketball, soccer, baseball, etc...) where you're committed for about an hour and you're done.... but even as the "rec" players in these sports, transition to "travel" (eg. "serious") the time commitments double or triple as you need to travel, play "double headers", tournaments, etc... perhaps usta needs a "rec" level tournament system for "local"/"not serious" players (aka beginners)... but most kids doing tournaments have already committed to being "serious"... (unless it just happens to be conveniently located near their house)

 

[Crocodile]

Some of the players I have spoken to do not like the UTR system. They don’t like how the algorithm works.
Many prefer to play traditional tournaments with rankings and points race. They also have commented that the prefer traditional categories like women’s events and men’s events, age events and not just not mixed up in one hodge podge arrangement The teenagers want to play with and against their own age group, not against a whole lot of senior citizens and I say fair enough.

 

[topspinnerMN]

makes sense for low level players (eg. utr1-4), especially if you or your child are committed to playing tennis full time (like high level kids are). low level utr players can probably play even 3-4 matches in a day (if enough people), as they are doing more missing than running.
higher level utr tournaments (eg. utr5+) are typically 2 matches in early rounds, and 1 match in later rounds...

guessing you're comparing tennis to your local rec activities (eg. basketball, soccer, baseball, etc...) where you're committed for about an hour and you're done.... but even as the "rec" players in these sports, transition to "travel" (eg. "serious") the time commitments double or triple as you need to travel, play "double headers", tournaments, etc... perhaps usta needs a "rec" level tournament system for "local"/"not serious" players (aka beginners)... but most kids doing tournaments have already committed to being "serious"... (unless it just happens to be conveniently located near their house)

My kid isn't at UTR 5 yet. There are many weekly UTR matches between levels 3-5. So when he outgrows those( UTR > 5), USTA tournaments makes sense for me as there are very few players at UTRs 5+ junior matches.

 

[tlsmikey]

Having a couple of kids playing juniors, I will say the one really large downside of UTR is that there is no competitive body that governs sportsmanship and cheating. The USTA does an absolutely **** poor job of punishing cheaters, but at least there is a grievance form and some sort of oversight. UTR does nothing other than take your money and setup a match.

I do like the UTR rating system though. It is slow to change, but is a much better indicator of level vs kids that game the points system.

 

[LOBALOT]

Having a couple of kids playing juniors, I will say the one really large downside of UTR is that there is no competitive body that governs sportsmanship and cheating. The USTA does an absolutely **** poor job of punishing cheaters, but at least there is a grievance form and some sort of oversight. UTR does nothing other than take your money and setup a match.

I do like the UTR rating system though. It is slow to change, but is a much better indicator of level vs kids that game the points system.

I agree with all this.

I was reading the posters previous threads about his kids ability though and just wondering if he is going to see the type of competition but I have already provided this feedback...

 

[Physical_Current]

My 2 cents about USTA vs UTR, I have a 11 years old daughter that plays both, we had to stop UTR after she played someone way older than her, she was overpowered, got a shoulder pain and played the whole game in defense. Is a difference between a 4 UTR at 11 and same utr at 40. USTA is the evil twin, cheating is rampart, parents behaving badly, last weekend , one of the parents start yelling at my girl that she's a cheater, calling a ball out, on clay with a clear mark. You know why? I just left for water and she was unattended, she was up 3-0 and that was just a way to presure her, bully her. And I have 100 stories like that, but...you need USTA for the damn points, to play the best kids in your area, even to have something to brag about on Monday at school. Better solution is to have a network of parents, call them an play every time you can or some academies have afternoons game play, USTA is our area has Friday play. Now with the world ranking number , UTR slowly will fade away in the junior world , like tennisrecruting did.

 

[topspinnerMN]

My 2 cents about USTA vs UTR, I have a 11 years old daughter that plays both, we had to stop UTR after she played someone way older than her, she was overpowered, got a shoulder pain and played the whole game in defense. Is a difference between a 4 UTR at 11 and same utr at 40. USTA is the evil twin, cheating is rampart, parents behaving badly, last weekend , one of the parents start yelling at my girl that she's a cheater, calling a ball out, on clay with a clear mark. You know why? I just left for water and she was unattended, she was up 3-0 and that was just a way to presure her, bully her. And I have 100 stories like that, but...you need USTA for the damn points, to play the best kids in your area, even to have something to brag about on Monday at school. Better solution is to have a network of parents, call them an play every time you can or some academies have afternoons game play, USTA is our area has Friday play. Now with the world ranking number , UTR slowly will fade away in the junior world , like tennisrecruting did.

So far he hasn't encountered parents like that here. I do reach out to other parents asking for more matches but very few of them are interested. Most are interested playing only UTR and USTA tournaments, group and private lessons.

 

[ChaelAZ]

Having had my boys in baseball, basketball, tennis, soccer, any time you get to tournament situations it is multi-match and multi-day scenarios, and most of my parenting life was spent doing it or helping coach it. Heck, robotics club and my son's competitive dance was the same too. Just part of the experience for the kids and helping them learn some life skill. That said, if you want more recreational aspects then other sports might be better, but in our area they had plenty of single day Jr tournaments, though I haven't checked post Cvid to see how things are anymore.

In any case, We always found things to do either at location, or even away/close to the location to pass time.