Why do people blatantly assume Federer has more talent than Nadal?

VivalaVida

VivalaVida

Banned
I hear this argument all the time! People say federer is the "artist" "maestro" and "most talented player tennis has ever seen". People dismiss nadal as a robot who is programmed to make people miss their shots. I love watching both fed and nadal. Fed indeed produces beautiful tennis but Nadal sometimes produces shots those are just as or even more impressive than federer and to top it all of, Nadal is 22 and has 6 Grand Slams! IMO talent cannot be measured by anyone and federer is not in anyway way more talented than Nadal.
 
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Probably it has something to do with Fed's fluid grace and his ability to change the pace of the ball, good serving, all around play etc.

I dont necessarily belief that. But to each is own. Nadal has devloped in a great player and has tweeked his game nice to help him on all surfaces. Nadal has beaten Fed too many times to make me believe he isnt better than Fed at this point. of course thats really all talent.


Nalbandian and Safin have a ton of talent. Unfortunately they have done nothing with it
 
Nadal is way more talented than Federer. Here's why:

Federer left school at 12 to train at a tennis academy. He received the best coaching and devoted his entire time to honing his skills.
Nadal shunned the academies and learned to play on an island being coached by a family member with no other coaching credentials.

Because of this, Nadal never learned proper technique and now hits forehands with his off hand. He was forced to invent his own array of strokes while Federer copied his from Cliff Notes. He has succeeded with a very weak serve. If Nadal had any semblance of the kind of serve you would expect from a 6'1" top-10 player, I would have been unbeatable awhile ago. Serving is the opposite of talent. Look at Andy Roddick.

With talent alone, Federer was able to reach the top 10. His talent wasn't enough to crack the glass ceiling. He needed more help and more time to reach the top.
With talent alone, Nadal crushed the tour and crushed Federer. He straight-setted prime Fed in 2004. Only now, after reaching the top spot, is he beginning to refine his game and make the same adjustments that Fed had to make.
 
Why do people blatantly assume Federer has more talent than Nadal?

Because he does, and it's not an assumption.

Just like McEnroe had more talent than Lendl even though Lendl owned McEnroe.
 
Nadal is way more talented than Federer. Here's why:

Federer left school at 12 to train at a tennis academy. He received the best coaching and devoted his entire time to honing his skills.
Nadal shunned the academies and learned to play on an island being coached by a family member with no other coaching credentials.

Because of this, Nadal never learned proper technique and now hits forehands with his off hand. He was forced to invent his own array of strokes while Federer copied his from Cliff Notes. He has succeeded with a very weak serve. If Nadal had any semblance of the kind of serve you would expect from a 6'1" top-10 player, I would have been unbeatable awhile ago. Serving is the opposite of talent. Look at Andy Roddick.

With talent alone, Federer was able to reach the top 10. His talent wasn't enough to crack the glass ceiling. He needed more help and more time to reach the top.
With talent alone, Nadal crushed the tour and crushed Federer. He straight-setted prime Fed in 2004. Only now, after reaching the top spot, is he beginning to refine his game and make the same adjustments that Fed had to make.
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Weird western spinny forehands and an underemphasizing of serve are trademarks of the "Spanish school" of tennis, which have led Spanish players to clay domination over and over. That "island" already produced a switch-hitting World No. 1 in recent times --- Moyà.
 
BreakPoint said:
Why do people blatantly assume Federer has more talent than Nadal?

Because he does, and it's not an assumption.

Just like McEnroe had more talent than Lendl even though Lendl owned McEnroe.
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good point.
historical cross referencing always gets me.
mcenroe had hands of gold, lendl had hands of steel.
 
The majority of Nadal's shots are based on consistent and raw power, not on pure shotmaking ability.

He's the best player right now because no one can clubber the ball as hard and consistently as he does and because he's mentally very strong (unlike Fed and Djokovic), not because he's more talented.
 
Fed has more talent on the serve, Nadal ihas more talent everywhere else.
 
Federer is more talented than Nadal because of the god like shots he makes. In comparison to Nadal Federer has more options to make,

Although Fed is more talented he is not the better player atm. Nadal is stronger mentally and imo more consistent this out weighs Feds talent to Nadal which is why Nadal is no.1 and not Fed
 
rubberduckies said:
Nadal is way more talented than Federer. Here's why:

Federer left school at 12 to train at a tennis academy. He received the best coaching and devoted his entire time to honing his skills.
Nadal shunned the academies and learned to play on an island being coached by a family member with no other coaching credentials.

Because of this, Nadal never learned proper technique and now hits forehands with his off hand. He was forced to invent his own array of strokes while Federer copied his from Cliff Notes. He has succeeded with a very weak serve. If Nadal had any semblance of the kind of serve you would expect from a 6'1" top-10 player, I would have been unbeatable awhile ago. Serving is the opposite of talent. Look at Andy Roddick.

With talent alone, Federer was able to reach the top 10. His talent wasn't enough to crack the glass ceiling. He needed more help and more time to reach the top.
With talent alone, Nadal crushed the tour and crushed Federer. He straight-setted prime Fed in 2004. Only now, after reaching the top spot, is he beginning to refine his game and make the same adjustments that Fed had to make.
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Do you know Nadal is from a rich family...dosen't matter if they lived on a small island, they were still pretty rich and uncle toni was a famous soccer player...Im sure he had good coaching

Are you trying to say all of Nadal's shots are invented by him...If Fed copied his shots from some notes (which is your assumtion), then Nadal must've copied them from someone else or by looking at old tapes...everybody gets inspired by someone...

Isn't a good serve part of the same tennis talent?

It is mental strength that is winning Nadal matches against Fed whether you like it or not because tennis wise they are the same on all surfaces exxcept clay...

In the end I really don't believe in natural talent...what you guys call talent is an excuse for other people to dismiss all the years of hard work these guys have put in to develop their tennis skills, which makes them look naturally talented. Nobody is born with a tennis gene...It is how hard and how smart you work on your game...So IMO it all boils down to commitment and determination in the end!
 
rubberduckies said:
Nadal is way more talented than Federer. Here's why:

Federer left school at 12 to train at a tennis academy. He received the best coaching and devoted his entire time to honing his skills.
Nadal shunned the academies and learned to play on an island being coached by a family member with no other coaching credentials.

Because of this, Nadal never learned proper technique and now hits forehands with his off hand. He was forced to invent his own array of strokes while Federer copied his from Cliff Notes. He has succeeded with a very weak serve. If Nadal had any semblance of the kind of serve you would expect from a 6'1" top-10 player, I would have been unbeatable awhile ago. Serving is the opposite of talent. Look at Andy Roddick.

With talent alone, Federer was able to reach the top 10. His talent wasn't enough to crack the glass ceiling. He needed more help and more time to reach the top.
With talent alone, Nadal crushed the tour and crushed Federer. He straight-setted prime Fed in 2004. Only now, after reaching the top spot, is he beginning to refine his game and make the same adjustments that Fed had to make.
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An interesting take. I agree with most of this ducks statement.
 
vtmike said:
Do you know Nadal is from a rich family...dosen't matter if they lived on a small island, they were still pretty rich and uncle toni was a famous soccer player...Im sure he had good coaching

Are you trying to say all of Nadal's shots are invented by him...If Fed copied his shots from some notes (which is your assumtion), then Nadal must've copied them from someone else or by looking at old tapes...everybody gets inspired by someone...

Isn't a good serve part of the same tennis talent?

It is mental strength that is winning Nadal matches against Fed whether you like it or not because tennis wise they are the same on all surfaces exxcept clay...

In the end I really don't believe in natural talent...what you guys call talent is an excuse for other people to dismiss all the years of hard work these guys have put in to develop their tennis skills, which makes them look naturally talented. Nobody is born with a tennis gene...It is how hard and how smart you work on your game...So IMO it all boils down to commitment and determination in the end!
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I agree completely with your last paragraph.

Uncle Toni wasn't the famous soccer player. Rafa's other uncle was. He has good genes. Talented genes :).
 
Maybe because Federer is more sublime, fluid and has natural shot making capabilities. It is the kind of tennis that does not require me to bulk up on steroids and outmuscle my opponent, which is unnatural.

He has a great serve motion, beautiful forehand and backhand and is a pleasure to watch even when he looses.

Nadal on the other hand looks like up a juiced , steroid freak. Reminds me of ben Johnson .His unnatural shots are only due to his steroid strength which no normal unjuiced person can hit.


This may explain why
 
Safinator_1 said:
Federer is more talented than Nadal because of the god like shots he makes. In comparison to Nadal Federer has more options to make,

Although Fed is more talented he is not the better player atm. Nadal is stronger mentally and imo more consistent this out weighs Feds talent to Nadal which is why Nadal is no.1 and not Fed
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Nadal is more talented than Fed because his shotmaking abilities are far superior. He can come up with impossible winners. Federer is great at finishing the point once his opponent has set up a nice short ball for him. Most of his highlights are of this nature. Many of Nadal's highlights are winners from neutral or defensive positions. Case in point: 4th set TB Wimbledon 2008. Nadal creates a match point off an incredible running forehand passing shot. On the next point, Nadal sets up Fed for a backhand pass by hitting a terrible cc approach.

I agree with you that consistency often outweighs talent. That is how Fed retained his number 1 ranking during Nadal's early years. Fed was already a finished product. His trainers had mined every ounce of talent from his body just to give him a chance of keeping up. Nadal was still developing and learning to harness his unrivaled talent.
 
I'll agree for the most part. While Roger does have the fluid strokes that one could use for teaching tennis in any generation--Rafa has the one variable that no one mentions: heart of a lion--which is talent in itself.
 
Nadal is more talented. Fed's inability to evolve his backhand, return and volleys puts him behind Nadal on the talent scale.
 
it's part of the anti-nadal conspiracy...

i know there are tests being conducted in area 61 on order to develop a mutant to retire nadal from the number one spot....
 
You can only tell if someone has talent if you watch them hit a ball for the very first time in their life, otherwise it is shrouded by years of practice and dedication.
 
I think the uneducated fan, they look at Nadal, a hulking, very athletic figure and assume he will be powerful, durable and fast... They look at federer and think of their slightly geeky buddy. From watching Nadal looks a lil more 'herky jerky' with his shots, while federers seem effortless and smooth, although the 2 techniques bring almost equal success...

For me they have equal abilities, wat nadal has that makes him so difficult for federer is that he can frustrate him, nadal for his excellent shotmaking, speed and stamina has incredible patience, and will generally keep the ball in play more then federer, and this is quite a talent...
 
Federer is technically a better player than Nadal in that he is the complete package (with a slight weakness in his backhand, however that was only exposed by a very select few players during Federer's prime).


Nadal is mentally stronger, and more athletic than Federer. I'd say he's also more open to utilizing new strategies than Federer is. Only recently have I seen Federer really start to add new things to his game (such as increased netplay, more aggressive serving, etc.)
 
As soon as the subject under discussion is 'talent', all objectivity vanishes. There is no way to demonstrate that one player is more 'talented' than another as 'talent' is such a subjective concept.
 
batz said:
As soon as the subject under discussion is 'talent', all objectivity vanishes. There is no way to demonstrate that one player is more 'talented' than another as 'talent' is such a subjective concept.
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Thank you...should we close the topic now?
 
rubberduckies said:
Nadal is more talented than Fed because his shotmaking abilities are far superior. He can come up with impossible winners. Federer is great at finishing the point once his opponent has set up a nice short ball for him. Most of his highlights are of this nature. Many of Nadal's highlights are winners from neutral or defensive positions. Case in point: 4th set TB Wimbledon 2008. Nadal creates a match point off an incredible running forehand passing shot. On the next point, Nadal sets up Fed for a backhand pass by hitting a terrible cc approach.
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Maybe Nadal is the king of winners from defensive positions, but Fed was the king of winners from neutral positions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpflSU_Yvps&fmt=18
 
Fed is like a poor man's Sampras and a poor man's Nadal wrapped in 1.
 
VivalaVida said:
I hear this argument all the time! People say federer is the "artist" "maestro" and "most talented player tennis has ever seen". People dismiss nadal as a robot who is programmed to make people miss their shots. I love watching both fed and nadal. Fed indeed produces beautiful tennis but Nadal sometimes produces shots those are just as or even more impressive than federer and to top it all of, Nadal is 22 and has 6 Grand Slams! IMO talent cannot be measured by anyone and federer is not in anyway way more talented than Nadal.
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Nadal is doesn't have a lot of natural talent. Out of the top 4, Nadal is the least talented player. You have to understand that natural talent has very little to do with results. Look at Gasquet, the guy has tons of talent, but he's doing nothing with it. Talent is about 10% of how good a player is, and while Nadal doesn't have a lot of natural talent, he has agility, mental toughness, movement, and consistency that many dream of, thus he is the best in the world today.
 
TheNatural said:
Fed is like a poor man's Sampras and a poor man's Nadal wrapped in 1.
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rubberduckies said:
Nadal is more talented than Fed because his shotmaking abilities are far superior. He can come up with impossible winners. Federer is great at finishing the point once his opponent has set up a nice short ball for him. Most of his highlights are of this nature. Many of Nadal's highlights are winners from neutral or defensive positions. Case in point: 4th set TB Wimbledon 2008. Nadal creates a match point off an incredible running forehand passing shot. On the next point, Nadal sets up Fed for a backhand pass by hitting a terrible cc approach.

I agree with you that consistency often outweighs talent. That is how Fed retained his number 1 ranking during Nadal's early years. Fed was already a finished product. His trainers had mined every ounce of talent from his body just to give him a chance of keeping up. Nadal was still developing and learning to harness his unrivaled talent.
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millionaire_idiot_fail.jpg
 
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P_Agony said:
Nadal is doesn't have a lot of natural talent. Out of the top 4, Nadal is the least talented player. You have to understand that natural talent has very little to do with results. Look at Gasquet, the guy has tons of talent, but he's doing nothing with it. Talent is about 10% of how good a player is, and while Nadal doesn't have a lot of natural talent, he has agility, mental toughness, movement, and consistency that many dream of, thus he is the best in the world today.
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This is as much an epic fail as the previous post. Adapting to various surfaces and improving continuously are not talents ? How about hitting shots on the run like few can ?
 
They're exactly the talents that Fed mostly relies on when he beats guys like Berdych and safin. The tables are turned when he Plays Nadal. When Fed plays Nadal, his game looks like Berdych's and Safin's when they play Fed.





P_Agony said:
Nadal is doesn't have a lot of natural talent. Out of the top 4, Nadal is the least talented player. You have to understand that natural talent has very little to do with results. Look at Gasquet, the guy has tons of talent, but he's doing nothing with it. Talent is about 10% of how good a player is, and while Nadal doesn't have a lot of natural talent, he has agility, mental toughness, movement, and consistency that many dream of, thus he is the best in the world today.
Click to expand...
 
TheNatural said:
They're exactly the talents that Fed mostly relies on when he beats guys like Berdych and safin. The tables are turned when he Plays Nadal. When Fed plays Nadal, his game looks like Berdych's and Safin's when they play Fed.
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Sure, that happened in miami 2005 and wimbledon 2007, no ? :oops:

I could keep on blowing more holes into your troll posts, but I'll let this one be for now ...
 
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TheNatural said:
They're exactly the talents that Fed mostly relies on when he beats guys like Berdych and safin. The tables are turned when he Plays Nadal. When Fed plays Nadal, his game looks like Berdych's and Safin's when they play Fed.
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Except that those aren't the talents people refer to. I think they refer to natural touch, creativity, etc.. Let me explain: when Fed dominated he didn't have to work very hard most of the time. His game, along with his natural talent, were enough to cover for his mental weakness and get him to the top of every surface (except clay, but even there nobody other than Nadal could beat him consistetnly). He didn't even need a coach most of the time because his game was just so complete it was scary at times. Nadal had to work very hard, he needed to improve his game, to make it more effective outside of clay. He's been at the top of the game (#2 and higher) for quite some time and was never able to shine outside of clay until last year. For that to happen, he had to work on his serve, on his strokes, on his volley, stuff that come very naturally for Federer. You truly have to admire Nadal's will to improve and fight for every win. Federer didn't have to fight most of the time - not because he had weak competitors (like many falsely clame), but because he was just too good. Federer's talent is still there, but his game has declined, and his mental weakness is still there. It's still enough to beat almost everybody, but for the likes of Nadal and Murray he needs to change his game a bit, because the current stuff is not enough.
 
TheNatural said:
They're exactly the talents that Fed mostly relies on when he beats guys like Berdych and safin. The tables are turned when he Plays Nadal. When Fed plays Nadal, his game looks like Berdych's and Safin's when they play Fed.
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I agree. But don't forget the same talents he not only used to beat Berdych and Safin, but also Sampras.
 
P_Agony said:
For that to happen, he had to work on his serve, on his strokes, on his volley, stuff that come very naturally for Federer.
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I think this post gets to the bottom of the issue. Federer fans think that Federer's pretty strokes came to him naturally without hard work, probably because he looks so natural hitting them, and that's why they think he is more talented. Of course this is BS, he had to work long and hard to aquire the skills and in fact it took him longer than Nadal to reign in the power.
 
Because Federer became a media idol first and they built his reputation. Nadal came second and they couldn't give him the "same talent" coz that would have been boring. So they stirred the pot and fed the public with other ideas to which people so blindly follow.
 
tahiti said:
Because Federer became a media idol first and they built his reputation. Nadal came second and they couldn't give him the "same talent" coz that would have been boring. So they stirred the pot and fed the public with other ideas to which people so blindly follow.
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:roll:

10 char
 
makes sense. after all we are al blind and we dont see what we see. we follow comentators chunky parangons!
 
vtmike said:
In the end I really don't believe in natural talent...what you guys call talent is an excuse for other people to dismiss all the years of hard work these guys have put in to develop their tennis skills, which makes them look naturally talented. Nobody is born with a tennis gene...It is how hard and how smart you work on your game...So IMO it all boils down to commitment and determination in the end!
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JediMindTrick said:
I think this post gets to the bottom of the issue. Federer fans think that Federer's pretty strokes came to him naturally without hard work, probably because he looks so natural hitting them, and that's why they think he is more talented. Of course this is BS, he had to work long and hard to aquire the skills and in fact it took him longer than Nadal to reign in the power.
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My point exactly...Agree +1
 
JediMindTrick said:
I think this post gets to the bottom of the issue. Federer fans think that Federer's pretty strokes came to him naturally without hard work, probably because he looks so natural hitting them, and that's why they think he is more talented. Of course this is BS, he had to work long and hard to aquire the skills and in fact it took him longer than Nadal to reign in the power.
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If you had actually read my posts you should know better. I stated time and time again natural talent is not even close to being the most important thing about a player. A player can have little to no talent and have great results. Of course Federer had to work hard and practice his whole life. However, when he started dominating, everything suddenly looked very easy for him. He could beat anybody on any given day, and without a coach in his corner. Nadal, on the other hand, knew the game he had was not enough to get great results out of clay, so he went and worked on stuff that didn't come naturally to him, such as his serve. Look how easily Fed hits a great serve, and how long it takes Nadal to even prepare for a decent one.
 
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