Why do players approach on Nadal's FH?

[monfed]

I was seeing this gif of Ralph's rather over the top celebration v/s Dimitrov but what was particularly striking about that gif was that Dimi approached the net on a short ball to Ralph's FH and Ralph predictably passed him DTL, Dimi did the stretch volley which just bubbled up to Nadal's BH which he easily put away DTL in the open court. I see this pattern of Nadal's points WAY too often. Do these players learn from their mistakes?

Do these players even study and discuss what tactics they need to use against Nadal? I mean how many times will they get burned at the net to realise that approaching Nadal on his FH is an extremely low percentage play and will most likely end up losing the point? If Fed's done his homework he'd know that approaching on Nadal's FH is a recipe for disaster, not only does he win the point but it gives him a chance to win a dramatic point and thus raise his spirit. How many times have we seen this happen?

Why not approach on Nadal's BH and atleast him make him use some effort to pass and that pass wouldn't be as hard as his FH anyway so the volleyer has a better chance. If Nadal makes a great pass from his BH then fine, you gotta put your hand up and say too good but CONTINUE approaching on Nadal's BH! Don't stop doing it just because Nadal made a great BH pass.

Baffles me that at such a high level, top players use tactics of club players. Why not just make up your mind that "If I'm gonna approach the net, it won't be on Nadal's FH?"

Thoughts?

 

[Solo]

It's different when you are actually playing it and analysing it. It's like a football match, during the half time the pundits are analysing where team A should have passed the ball, where player A should have run etc

 

[monfed]

It's different when you are actually playing it and analysing it. It's like a football match, during the half time the pundits are analysing where team A should have passed the ball, where player A should have run etc

I see your point but it happens far too often and on easy balls to approach the net on. I really cannot understand why such a simple thing like approaching the net on Nadal's FH just BEGGING to be passed? Seriously Nadal never misses a FH pass, and what's worse is it's hard to tell if he'll go DTL or CC with it. Atleast with his BH pass you can be assured he'll make a CC jab so you can cover the net better. You can in anycase will have more time to react with Ralph's BH pass and thus make a more succesful volley.

In that GIF, Dimitrov had the whole court open and had the ball on his FH, yet he approached on Nadal's FH. With a tactic like that he clearly doesn't deserve to win.

 

[SStrikerR]

Because approaching crosscourt gives Nadal way too many angles with the backhand. His forehand passes are better for sure, but his backhand ones are great as well and he can hit the crosscourt all day.

Basically, imo, you're picking a lethal poison no matter which way you approach. What players need to do to successfully approach is have great DEPTH on their approach shots. A ball that isn't deep enough will bounce up, allowing Nadal to rip it with supreme spin and accuracy. It's much harder for him (and anybody else) to do that when the ball is very deep.

 

[Solo]

Because it's impossible to think like that with a 100% commitment in a game, impossible for any human in any subject. Also, your movement may already be positioned to go towards Blisterdal's forehand so instead of doing something stupid, you might as well roll with it.

I know what you mean, don't get me wrong. I ask myself the same questions about Novak going to Stan's backhand and other stuff but it's hard to put ourselves in their shoes. Your mind is racing.

 

[monfed]

Because approaching crosscourt gives Nadal way too many angles with the backhand. His forehand passes are better for sure, but his backhand ones are great as well and he can hit the crosscourt all day.

Basically, imo, you're picking a lethal poison no matter which way you approach. What players need to do to successfully approach is have great DEPTH on their approach shots. A ball that isn't deep enough will bounce up, allowing Nadal to rip it with supreme spin and accuracy. It's much harder for him (and anybody else) to do that when the ball is very deep.

Nadal can hit his BH CC pass all he wants, it won't be nearly as lethal as as his FH CC pass because his opponent will be better prepared to react to it. It's all about percentages, the likelihood of Nadal making a BH DTL pass is way lower than him making a DTL FH one so that means you know what to expect from Nadal passing from his BH compared to his FH.

Again I never said Ralph can't make a BH DTL pass, but the odds of that are very low. If you approach Nadal on his FH, basically you've lost the point. No way he ever misses those and he literally rifles those passes from almost any position in the court and the opponent is either not close to it or has to make shoe lace volleys which Nadal comes forward and dumps them in the open court.

 

[SStrikerR]

Nadal can hit his BH CC pass all he wants, it won't be nearly as lethal as as his FH CC pass because his opponent will be better prepared to react to it. It's all about percentages, the likelihood of Nadal making a BH DTL pass is way lower than him making a DTL FH one so that means you know what to expect from Nadal passing from his BH.

Again I never said Ralph can't make a BH DTL pass, but the odds of that are very low. If you approach Nadal on his FH, basically you've lost the point. No way he ever misses those and he literally rifles those passes from almost any position in the court and the opponent is either not close to it or has to make shoe lace volleys which Nadal comes forward and dumps them in the open court.

Well, I disagree. Like I said, depth is key. No matter what side you get it to, if you can hit it deep and with pace, you have a much better chance. If your approach is subpar then sure, approach to his backhand and test your luck. But if you want to consistently come in and win a good percentage of points at the net, you better be hitting deep.

ALSO, hitting behind Nadal when possible is a good idea. Or, keep him pinned to the forehand side, THEN approach to the backhand if it's possible. He's much less likely to hit a backhand pass on a sprint than a forehand one. Basically, my point is that a lot more goes into approaching the net than "hmmm which side should I pick?"

 

[joeri888]

Nadal makes 5 amazing passes a match with it. Just suck it up and if the courts open just go there again. The approach just needs to be real good.

 

[aldeayeah]

Because Nadal's BH passing shot is the best on tour?

 

[NatF]

Because Nadal's BH passing shot is the best on tour?

But it's still weaker than his FH. Which is the point. As good as the backhand pass is the forehand is even better. Go there at your own peril.

 

[Bobby Jr]

...Do these players even study and discuss what tactics they need to use against Nadal? I mean how many times will they get burned at the net to realise that approaching Nadal on his FH is an extremely low percentage play and will most likely end up losing the point? If Fed's done his homework he'd know that approaching on Nadal's FH is a recipe for disaster...

It's simple - because they attempt to set the point up by pulling Nadal wide on his backhand until he hits a short/high cc shot they can pounce on with a dtl shot. That is a great play against Nadal - and one which works. BUT, it depends how well the opponent hits that approach. Done well approaching down the line is usually a better tactic than coming in crosscourt which is what they'd usually need to do given their own backhand down the line is half as good/reliable as their forehand.

Nadal, like most players camps slightly to his backhand corner too, and he struggles when rushed on his forehand.

The execution is where most of the approaches fail. They hit them, see they're in the right ballpark and come in... too late to realise the approach wasn't quite as good as they thought.

 

[MichaelNadal]

But it's still weaker than his FH. Which is the point. As good as the backhand pass is the forehand is even better. Go there at your own peril.

Nadal's forehand is blistering indeed #GOAThand

 

[RogerRacket111]

Simple answer you don't play lefties all the time. They are used to going to backhand of righties. As easy as it sounds to make the switch they play by instincts and get burned.

 

[Manus Domini]

Because cross court approach shots are generally bad ideas...

 

[Bobby Jr]

Because cross court approach shots are generally bad ideas...

Winner winner chicken dinner. ^

Basic approaching the net protocol is dtl - the ball is lower, the time the person on the baseline has is less and their passing options fewer and generally trickier.

The players who've had the most success vs Nadal have done so by playing to his backhand over and over until he throws a short reply and then hammering it to his forehand corner.

 

[LeeD]

In my humble opinion, poster #9 nailed it.
No matter which is DTL, which you hit better (the approach), or which is intellectually thought of as "weaker", the fact remains that Nadal's 2hbh hit with almost an eastern right hand goes lower, faster, and is more consistent.
His 1hForehand might be stronger, might kill you from the baseline, but chances are, that PASSING shot has a chance to go up higher, allowing you a better chance to put away the volley. A chance is all you can hope for. Little chance approaching Nadal's backhand side. And, he's been working on a 2hbh topspin lob CC.

 

[The-Champ]

IMO, Nadal is most dangerous on his second attempt to a pass. His bh passing shot, phenomenal as it is, is a lot weaker than his fh passing shot. Therefore If I were to attack him, I'd go for a very good approach shot to the fh, hopes that he goes for a dtl pass with high net clearance, knock the volley to the open court for a winner or let him pass me with his backhand. If he however goes crosscourt with that fh pass on my approach, I'm toast.

 

[monfed]

IMO, Nadal is most dangerous on his second attempt to a pass. His bh passing shot, phenomenal as it is, is a lot weaker than his fh passing shot. Therefore If I were to attack him, I'd go for a very good approach shot to the fh, hopes that he goes for a dtl pass with high net clearance, knock the volley to the open court for a winner or let him pass me with his backhand. If he however goes crosscourt with that fh pass on my approach, I'm toast.

That's precisely why I would avoid approaching Nadal on his FH side, he can go CC, DTL with it and it's tough to say which way he'll go because he hits it sideon. On his BH you can know with greater certainty that he'll go CC,that's higher percentage for him, so the volleyer can cover the net. The odds of Nadal making a BH DTL pass are very slim, that's a low percentage shot for him and he won't take that route unless it's his only option.

Quite a few folks have said a good approach shot, that's certainly important, but let's be honest, it's not easy to have a very good approach all the time. At times the approach will be mediocre and that's when you're better off approaching to Nadal's BH than FH, the latter you're guaranteed to get burned.

 

[edberg volleys]

Winner winner chicken dinner. ^

Basic approaching the net protocol is dtl - the ball is lower, the time the person on the baseline has is less and their passing options fewer and generally trickier.

The players who've had the most success vs Nadal have done so by playing to his backhand over and over until he throws a short reply and then hammering it to his forehand corner.

This. Agreed 100%.

 

[Manus Domini]

So, basically what y'all are saying is--only approach the net against Rafa when you get a short ball on the ad side of the court and you can hit it DTL towards his backhand?

A good approach shot goes DTL. Cross-court approach shots are generally inviting your opponent to pass you. It's like "Hey, here's a free point!" (There are exceptions, but they should be treated as such: exceptions.)

 

[The-Champ]

That's precisely why I would avoid approaching Nadal on his FH side, he can go CC, DTL with it and it's tough to say which way he'll go because he hits it sideon. On his BH you can know with greater certainty that he'll go CC,that's higher percentage for him, so the volleyer can cover the net. The odds of Nadal making a BH DTL pass are very slim, that's a low percentage shot for him and he won't take that route unless it's his only option.

Quite a few folks have said a good approach shot, that's certainly important, but let's be honest, it's not easy to have a very good approach all the time. At times the approach will be mediocre and that's when you're better off approaching to Nadal's BH than FH, the latter you're guaranteed to get burned.

But Rafa most of the time goes dtl with that fh pass with a very high net clearance. Example 1: http://youtu.be/iyrBLWyJh4s?t=13m5s

A good volleyer with good net instinct would not have failed like Isner did. And it's true what you said about "a good approach shot", this is where most of them fail, like Isner did in that particular point.

 

[checkmilu]

Players have problem with Nadal flat cross court bh pass because they use their fh top spin to Nadal bh corner. If they use a slice fh to Nadal bh then Nadal has to hit a high bh top spin which is much weaker...

 

[raisethe3]

That's precisely why I would avoid approaching Nadal on his FH side, he can go CC, DTL with it and it's tough to say which way he'll go because he hits it sideon. On his BH you can know with greater certainty that he'll go CC,that's higher percentage for him, so the volleyer can cover the net. The odds of Nadal making a BH DTL pass are very slim, that's a low percentage shot for him and he won't take that route unless it's his only option.

Quite a few folks have said a good approach shot, that's certainly important, but let's be honest, it's not easy to have a very good approach all the time. At times the approach will be mediocre and that's when you're better off approaching to Nadal's BH than FH, the latter you're guaranteed to get burned.

Spot on. Also the net is a little bit lower in the center/middle if I am not mistaken.

 

[monfed]

Spot on. Also the net is a little bit lower in the center/middle if I am not mistaken.

Just noticed your location. Wow I'm jealous, are your folks billionaires or something?

You're right about the net height.

 

[citybert]

Really? I thought people always hit to the FH so they could see that nice finish up close and personal.

On a serious note. These are all really good points.

 

[swordtennis]

I agree with this premise.
Going in on the Nadal forehand always has seemed like a weird thing to do to me. You have to have an all round constant attack on the Nadal backhand. Baseline, lobs, drop shots, fh, bh, vollies everything. lt Seems players do not understand this and or have a weak all round attack.

 

[monfed]

I agree with this premise.
Going in on the Nadal forehand always has seemed like a weird thing to do to me. You have to have an all round constant attack on the Nadal backhand. Baseline, lobs, drop shots, fh, bh, vollies everything. lt Seems players do not understand this and or have a weak all round attack.

I agree, just stick to Nadal's BH at all times and not try to get cheeky. Nole was doing this a lot in 2011 and it paid major dividends. Fed should do the same.

 

[AM95]

Approaching the net against Nadal is a risk period. I've seen him hit amazing passing shots off of both sides.

However, one needs to remember that Nadal can't do this EVERY SINGLE TIME. If he can, then you just have to say "too good."

 

[Bud]

Nadal's forehand is blistering indeed #GOAThand

 

[monfed]

Approaching the net against Nadal is a risk period. I've seen him hit amazing passing shots off of both sides.

However, one needs to remember that Nadal can't do this EVERY SINGLE TIME. If he can, then you just have to say "too good."

From what I've seen, he wins the big points(generally BPs) hitting passing shots. So, taking that away from him might prove fatal for Nadal. I don't think Fed should approach the net when he's trying to save BP, that's asking for trouble.

 

[swordtennis]

I agree, just stick to Nadal's BH at all times and not try to get cheeky. Nole was doing this a lot in 2011 and it paid major dividends. Fed should do the same.

He was doing a good job that year. Very aggressive on the Backhand side. He is not hitting those sharp angled fh's to Nadals backhand anymore. He has lost a bit of confidence off both wings. I think more solid net play on the Nadal BH side is needed for any player to succeed against him. Maybe his volley fumbles at the end at the end of the AO was Novak Djokovic trying to finish off big points at the net. It is still early with Becker he was great with some aggressive net play in his time.
I hope see some change up in all players tactics.

 

[Manus Domini]

But Rafa most of the time goes dtl with that fh pass with a very high net clearance. Example 1: http://youtu.be/iyrBLWyJh4s?t=13m5s

A good volleyer with good net instinct would not have failed like Isner did. And it's true what you said about "a good approach shot", this is where most of them fail, like Isner did in that particular point.

A good volleyer would have hit a far better approach shot...

Not even Edberg or JMac would have been able to get that.

 

[Manus Domini]

Players have problem with Nadal flat cross court bh pass because they use their fh top spin to Nadal bh corner. If they use a slice fh to Nadal bh then Nadal has to hit a high bh top spin which is much weaker...

Because Nadal won't just run around his backhand. :roll:

But even if he does, he has two options very easily: cc or dtl (which you can't defend) if you are hitting cc.

 

[aldeayeah]

Because Nadal won't just run around his backhand. :roll:

Exactly my thoughts; instead of a pass, you'd be setting him up for a huge deuce court FH. That could go DTL or inside-out.

 

[Egoista]

I think one should literally slice the ball on both the forehand and the backhand side and approach the net with that slice on nadals backhand that is the best thing.........with a slice....you wil then see he wont have any pace with which to hit those "beautiful" passes