Discussion in 'Adult League & Tournament Talk' started by christo, May 10, 2009.
I have only had ONLY 1 person that I felt was hooking me on purpose...Everything that hit a line....even drop shots, he called out. After the match, he told me that he called them that way because he though I was hooking him....weird....all perception. I filed a grievance to no avail. If I am not 100% sure that a ball is out, I play it....PERIOD! When I am serving, about half of the balls I serve that I see 2-6 inches out are not called out. I TRULY believe that 99.9% of the people are honest with calls. The ones that I think missed calls, truly beleive that they made the right call.
Sometimes people have no clue...they have not been properly calibrated. With that I mean that, at practice, whenever there is a close call, we all talk about it and make sure that we are all in agreement. sometimes we find that 1 guy might have been miscalibrated by 2-3 inches....It happens. But it's all good.
And these are the people I call friends. The ones you can depend on?
in my games during league play i use the real rules, if i cant call it out i play the ball, but many times i play a ball and my opponent stops and watches me hit a shot right by him. he then says omg dude, the ball was out. wtf.. and gets upset, its a lose lose situation
Yeah, like he lost the point twice.
Ok how about another twist, on this..
according to the rules as far as I know, the oppenent gets to make the calls on his side... So theoretically a ball could be in the middle of the court and still be called out...
Which got me thinking... what if one guy calls a ball in the middle of the court "out" then the other guy does the same thing to get even and they continue this on every point... how would one of them win?
The last man standing cuz somebody's going down. And saw this in dubs. Guy calls the ball out. Guy serves the next ball in the middle of the box, it is out. Serves agin, it is outski. He and his partner and everyone watching gets the point. They take one, you take two.
Lots of hooking when I played USTA league tennis. It's very dishonest. But so is tournament play - if its not being officiated (obviously).
I actually tried to change my game up and go for less so players would feel less guilty about hooking. I'd say that the players that don't experience any hooking are likely playing up at a higher level of tennis then I was.
I supsect most good players don't really feel the need to hook because they have confidence in their game. Raiden plays what in the 5.0s? Am I right?
at a tournament you call a line judge. Simple solution.
At some club match, well never in my life have i had someone cheat me on purpose when there was nothing at stake. An honest mistake here and there is no big deal.
I think the other thing that hasn't been brought up yet is, how many times does one or two close line calls determine a match? It's pretty rare.
When I play a match, I can usually tell if the ball I hit was out or in, 99% of the time. There are a few that I have no clue, and have to rely on my opponent to make the correct (and honest) call. If he decides to cheat me on all of them (which I've never yet run into)....? Well, even so, most matches aren't SO close that those calls will make a win into a loss, or vice versa. And if he's honest, and just misses a few calls...well, he'll likely honestly miss a couple of calls in your favour, too, so theoretically it should even out.
And if there is a match that hinges on a couple of line calls....well, if the match is important enough to really care about in the grand scheme of life, then there'd be linesmen and umpires present, right?
I played a doubles match against a strong team a few years ago. My partner was playing great and we were up a set and a break with my partner serving. I watched one of our opponents (the other was fine) make 4 bad line calls in that one game to take the break back in the second. Twice he called serves wide from all the way across the court, that I knew for a fact were in since I was right in front of them.
My partner crumbled after that game and we lost the 2nd set and were bageled in the 3rd. We could have gotten a line judge after that game and it wouldn't have mattered, since the damage was done and so was my partner.
Some people want to win too badly. The rule is, if you are 99% sure the ball was out, then it was IN. Has to be 100% out, and no hesitation or discussion about the call. Whatever you do, don't become a "hooker". Always give your opponent the benefit of the doubt, otherwise people won't play with you.
On most hard courts, there will be a mark left by the ball, just like clay. If they call it out, I say "show me the mark". If they can't, then I know one of two things. One, they are blind. Or two, they are deliberately hooking you. Unfortunately, where I play, it is usually the later, even so bad that anything within 3 inches of the line is called out. It comes down to this: If they are going to call tight lines, then you have to do the same. If they are blatant about it and there is no umpire available, then you have to make it clear to them that their line calling is unacceptable. You can usually tell by their reaction to your remark on whether they are doing it deliberately or not. If they are indignant about it, then it is deliberate, and, unfortunately, the only way to get them to stop is to call one of their shots that lands in the middle of the court out. That will usually stop it. You have to let them know that they can't get away with it and that you will do everything it takes to make sure it doesn't happen again. If he argues, then make the offer to him that everything that looks close will be considered "in". If he refuses, then he is absolutely trying to hook you.
NOPE, not really a good rule of thumb. Quite often, the player closest to the ball has the worst vantage point, not the best as many people assume. If you are too close to the bounce event, your eyes cannot track the ball accurately. In these situations, that player's partner often has a better vantage point. Even the opponents may have a better vantage point than a player that is too close to the ball.
Quite often a player is focused on either the ball or on an expected contact zone and not on the lines at all. Often, that person cannot make an accurate call.
On the other hand, if their eyes & head are still and they are focused on the line, they can make an accurate call but may be unable to make a clean contact, if needed. I spoke a lot about these matters on page 1 of this thread:
I played a match recently where my opponent called every shot on the line out. He even called shots a few inches inside of the line out. I realized during the first set (that I won) that this was his strategy to try and hook me on the calls and also to upset me by a pattern of disrespectful things. (After the points are over on my serve, not hitting me the balls back but spraying them all over the court, quickly serving when I'm not in position etc...)
I don't know if these things worked on other people but I picked up my game and bageled him the second set. I'd love a rematch so I could double bagel him.
"Called every shot on the line out". How many shots of yours landed right on the line? You must be a pretty good player to have so many balls land there.
Personally, I only have a few land on the lines and I have been playing 4.5 and 5.0 league and tourneys for years.
I am in complete agreement with OrangePower on this one. As others have stated, my USTA experiences in both league and tournament play have shown that most players are fair, and yes, even "more than fair."
As a spectator, I've seen far more players who play the "just long" ball on the baseline than I've seen players who call a shot "on" the baseline out. As a player, my experience is that most players will play a questionable ball rather than call it out. Always? No. But usually.
I see this a lot on serves that are just long. This is perhaps the most "missed" call in all of tennis. It's especially prevalent with a player who serves hard and fast. Of course playing an "out" serve can create problems as well, but for the purposes of this conversation, it serves as a good example of how most players will give their opponent the benefit of the doubt.
OrangePower is correct in this respect as well: The opponent's baseline is a long way from where you are, and determining whether or not your ball hit the baseline on the opposite side of the court is difficult at best, if not impossible.
I hit with lots of topspin. so my ball tend to dip quickly as it falls. Therefor a ball that looks (in the air) to be going long, often dips in. OFTEN, but not always. I've had many opponents "leave" a ball that appears to be on its way out only to end up hitting or catching the baseline concede the point as a good shot. This happens FAR more often than having such a player on such a shot call the ball out.
OrangePower is correct in this respect as well. Line judges stare at lines, and yet even they sometimes make poor calls. Calling lines while actually playing can sometimes be extremely trying. That's not an excuse for bad calls, it's just a fact. Again in my experience, most players give their opponents the benefit of the doubt.
To the original poster: We all know how infuriating it can be to have a good shot called out, so I can empathize with you there. BUT, maybe, just maybe, the shots are "just" out and the calls are good. "Just missing" a shot is nearly as infuriating, but the fault lies not with my opponent but rather with me.
And yes, as other have said, some players have poor eyesight. That sucks, but ... When it comes to outright cheaters, my experience has shown me that such players are VERY rare.
When in doubt............call it out
And if you do, prepare to get screwed.
Guy at my club calls it out before it hits the ground...the closer the shot, the louder he yells.
Over and over again. Can remember a player that never finished a match. Guys would just quit after some of his calls.
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