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Why do we suck?
- Thread starter user92626
- Start date
10sbeast888
Professional
So I just practiced hitting a bunch of volley shots (in my backyard) Contact and power is generally good, but how do you guys direct the ball to a place you want?
I notice great volleyers don't just catch, contact the ball well but also place it great (eg close at opp's feet, sidelines, at body). Amazing.
relaxed grip, with grip pressure 2 out of 10. squeeze the handle on contact.
user92626
G.O.A.T.
Agreed. Im rarely wrong so it's quite significant when it happens
ballmachineguy
Hall of Fame
For padded walls they seem to have clearly defined corners. I assume that isn’t real glass in the windows.Mate, don’t ask people who can’t make a living room video!
Anyway this is the third crucial item. Also addresses your how to direct the ball question if you think about it.
Morch Us
Hall of Fame
Tons of professional tennis players in this range also knowlgly decide to not get to their full potential, since in the end they have to decide "is it worth it for the returns"
This guy is a doubles player.
A lot of ATP pros (singles or doubles) in the 100-300 range probably has the potential to get to top20 (but no guarantees).
A lot of ATP pros (singles or doubles) in the 100-300 range probably has the potential to get to top20 (but no guarantees).
Daniel Andrade
Hall of Fame
Lack of deliberate practice I think
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
@user92626
When did SUCKNESS sneak into the language? I see references from 2023. SUCKINESS is a word that's been around for quite a while. Spellcheck flags SUCKNESS but not SUCKINESS
When did SUCKNESS sneak into the language? I see references from 2023. SUCKINESS is a word that's been around for quite a while. Spellcheck flags SUCKNESS but not SUCKINESS
user92626
G.O.A.T.
When suckness doesn't stop at tennis.
user92626
G.O.A.T.
In other words we don't wanna admit that we suck.
We can't reach certain levels (without ridiculous costs) while others do it with ease.
user92626
G.O.A.T.
That's actually a good point. I suppose quality requires seriousness, structured practice.
So i play w this guy. He's pretty good. I didn't understand how he got there.
Last week he and I played against each other in a dubs which is rare. Then I kinda got the picture.
He requested a good long time for warmup. Very deliberate with everything..groundstrokes, volley, etc.
For me I rallyed for 5 mins or less just to feel looseness in my legs/knees, then asked others if they were ready. Lol.
user92626
G.O.A.T.
Nice. Get the whole racket moving inthe direction.Mate, don’t ask people who can’t make a living room video!
Anyway this is the third crucial item. Also addresses your how to direct the ball question if you think about it.
Curious
G.O.A.T.
A good player can send the ball where he wants to with the amount of spin and pace he intends for. You and I can do this sometimes but they do it most of the time. Why? It’s actually a ‘feel’ that they have developed, a feel of racket face angle and swing path through contact. There are no secrets. Let’s just continue developing that feel. The problem is we get distracted by too many things and neglect those two most crucial things: racket face angle and swing path through contact.
Curious
G.O.A.T.
Absolutely!
zill
Legend
Feel as a junior yes. As an adult picking up the game after 30 I was also looking for feel but also strategy and physics with the racquet action and body as well as they work in sync. The two different approaches acts as a check and have to align and then we have found it.
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
Huh?
user92626
G.O.A.T.
You questioned my spelling... well I suck at everything, not just tennis.
Curious
G.O.A.T.
What do you do differently in 10% of the time?
What happens in the 80% failure?
The other 10% is retrieving a difficult ball and doing whatever to put it back in.
80% is me sending the ball into the net or out the court, of course. But you're not really asking about that, right?
What I meant is that I am usually overhitting or trying to play above my skill level (which is what I think is almost as good as it can be with the little I play).
Curious
G.O.A.T.
That’s pretty much what I was asking. As 20% is very low percentage there’s a problem there. Clearly you don’t have the skills to afford hitting big. Maybe you shouldn’t.
I can hit big not not bigger, which is what I always wantThat’s pretty much what I was asking. As 20% is very low percentage there’s a problem there. Clearly you don’t have the skills to afford hitting big. Maybe you shouldn’t.
Curious
G.O.A.T.
I’m opening a new brave chapter in my tennis. No matter what, I’m swinging fast from now on! Just like my both serves. No neutral shots unless I’m clearly in a defensive position. Every other ball that I’m not really forced I’ll try to cause damage. I don’t mean trying to hit a winner every time but will always try to force the opponent to either make an error or hit a weak shot. I will never wait for the opponent to make an unforced error in a nutshell. Life is too short to do that, especially at my age. This way I won’t have any nerves anymore as I know what I’m doing and accept the consequences.
Dragy
Legend
How shots being neutral (shot selection, tactical decision) is related to swinging fast (technique, execution, confidence)? Why cannot you swing fast while hitting neutral rally ball?
I’m asking because it resonates with me, trying to “swing fast to do something more” for me personally creates harmful expectations and vortex of doom… Trying to swing fast, because it’s best way to make quality shots, on the other hand, is fundamentally solid and helpful, any day any time (not talking drop shots or block volleys, just drive shots from the baseline).
And if I’m set and confident to swing fast, I then decide on what I want from this particular shot. Target, shape, speed, goal to achieve. Pattern to enter.
Curious
G.O.A.T.
Think about your second serve. Any time you hesitate to swing fast you double fault or hit a very weak serve. Something like that. Anyway it’s a general strategy or mindset. Maybe it’s just me, I hit too many tentative shots. Maybe other people don’t.
Dragy
Legend
Yeah I get it with the serve. Some days I feel like I'm attacking with my second serve. But on other, or against stronger opponents, it's definitely a neutral shot. I swing full and free at my 2nd serve, but I intend it as neutral shot, keeping me out of trouble, challenging my opponent somewhat, maybe putting first brick into constructing a point to my liking... but neutral - is the best word for my second serve it competitive, tight match.
Curious
G.O.A.T.
Ok, swing freely and fast on neutral balls like a second serve then we’re on the same page. Not swinging fast due to fear of missing. That’s what I want to get rid of completely.
Dragy
Legend
I returned to playing some competitive tennis after a break. Played first match yesterday, won 7:5, 6:4 after being 2:5 behind initially... Congrats me!
Poor ball recognition is hurting. Against short and weak balls - in particular. Lack of loading caused instances where I had to arm the ball, which is slower. It appears to me bravery shall come much earlier than the swing itself
I turned the match around when I started blasting his second serves. They were really weak and slow and short. I had to step inside the baseline, approach the ball to take it at peak, and hit it fast. Missed some, but made like 80% for clean winners or unreturned shots.
But rallies, it's a mess, so much movement and different balls... You kind of see a great ball to run around, you do hustle and prepare, but it goes a bit deeper, a bit higher bounce, gets too close to your nose, and you want to swing fast... but need to adapt somehow. Rec tennis is pure joy!
socallefty
G.O.A.T.
That is how you should play in practice - swinging freely and hitting harder without fear. Over time your stroke will be grooved and you can play like that in matches. Start with big targets initially at the higher swing speed in practice and then start aiming for targets closer to the lines. Then do the same in matches.
The few times I’ve watched your match video, I think a bigger issue for you is that you hit late off your back foot leaning back and you mostly hit into the middle third of the court. You can swing freely and hit hard consistently if you hit more shots with weight transfer and extension forward or even stepping in. And if you hit hard only into the middle of the court, you won’t trouble your better opponents much - you’ve got to learn to hit closer to the sidelines in match play. I don’t know if you serve closer to the lines, but that’s important also.
Also I seem to recall you slicing your BH too much. Try and get to the ball earlier and hit topspin drives more - over time, you can swing faster.
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ballmachineguy
Hall of Fame
I love people chiming in in support of Curious’ new strategy. Socallefty spent more time writing about it than C will spend time committed to it.
travlerajm
Talk Tennis Guru
I don’t think expect this chapter will will end well.
Do you ever wonder why when you watch tournaments of old singles guys in their 60s, that no one hits very hard?
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
No, I wasn’t questioning your spelling. It appears that both spellings show up in urban dictionaries & possibly elsewhere. SUCKINESS has been around for a while & shows in some regular English dictionaries. SUCKNESS appears to have come into use more recently.You questioned my spelling... well I suck at everything, not just tennis.
Curious
G.O.A.T.
What’s hitting hard? I didn’t say that! Swing fast I said. @socallefty lefty understands my point I believe. He actually recommended this to me before but I chickened out because of two things: not trusting my stroke and spin to keep the ball in and the ego fearing to lose/miss shots. Not anymore.
ballmachineguy
Hall of Fame
You shouldn’t
Curious
G.O.A.T.
I still don’t on the backhand but I do on my forehand.
socallefty
G.O.A.T.
I recommended to do it in practice setting up target cones in the deep corners and also trying out some short angle targets (where service box meets sideline). I don’t recommend to start doing it in matches as you will miss more, lose quicker and stop doing it after a while. Swing speed has to be increased in practice first as you will need to make some swing path adjustments including more forward contact point to get more spin and keep the ball in.
travlerajm
Talk Tennis Guru
I think it is certainly a viable approach. But in general it requires a stroke technique that makes swinging free a high-margin stroke.
For a fh, this means a stronger grip usually.
Not sure if your fh is designed for it without some adjustment. It’s certainly not a natural way for me to play, having not learned a semi-western fh as a youth.
Swinging freely on a spin serve does come naturally to me, but I learned to do that with a strong spin grip at a relatively young age.
Curious
G.O.A.T.
My forehand feels much more solid and reliable lately after starting to use a proper semi western grip. It was a weaker version before with the heel pad more on bevel 3. Now both index knuckle and heel pad are fully on bevel 4.
ballmachineguy
Hall of Fame
If you had to label your fh as ATP, WTA or OTHER, which would you choose?
Curious
G.O.A.T.
Curious forehand. More like ATP as I don’t take the racket much behind my back.
You're lucky. For me it's usually the opposite.
user92626
G.O.A.T.
That's nice to hear.
It's refreshing to hear that you're still tweaking your FH. Same as me!!!!
It's fun isn't it?Over the weekend I rallied with this one guy whose shots were extraordinary fast. Eventually I had to move back 4 feet behind the baseline. I complimented his power and to my surprise he said he was only doing half of his power!
Anyway, I kinda spotted my gravest error! All of my tweaking on the takeback/backswing has screwed my FH/BH. It felt very unfamiliar and I was lost.
Toward the end of the day I revert back to my familiar compact backswing and things started to look up!!!
user92626
G.O.A.T.
You mean you cannot hit like that in matches?
If you cannot it's probably due to broken timing at somewhere in the long chain of actions.
Sometimes we are just too focused on one or two things and totally oblivious to the rest!
user92626
G.O.A.T.
Curious might have a point though, travlerajm
I notice in ATP, WTA matches they all try to accelerate (swinging fast) on every shot!!!
ballmachineguy
Hall of Fame
It certainly is!
travlerajm
Talk Tennis Guru
Well… of course aspiring to do it like the pros do is a logical goal.
But if it were easy, we wouldn’t find so many “pushers” dominating the lower to mid level rec level leagues around world.
user92626
G.O.A.T.
So what to do?
Aim to be a successful pusher or aim to be much better with high probability of failure?
Curious
G.O.A.T.
Exactly!
I believe the reasons why it doesn't happen at lower levels are not trusting the swing, not developing the skill to create topspin, the ego worrying about losing/missing hence trying to just keep the ball in. Do you swing slower on second serves? No. You trust your swing path and the spin and it goes in. Do you fail sometimes doing that? Yes and you accept that it will happen. Same mindset on groundstrokes now for me.
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