Why do we tend to frame shots when we accelerate hard?

user92626

G.O.A.T.
I notice that.

When I see a ball set up too nice, too good not to smack it with forehand, I swing at it with much more acceleration than average, I tend to frame it!!!

I remember telling myself to look at the ball longer, to keep the shape of the swing nice and correct and everything.

So how do pro's accelerate their rackets, ie hitting winners, and never frame the shots? What's the check list for this?
 
Interesting. It’s when I don’t try to drive it and pull off the ball thinking it will help keep it from going long that I frame it.

Maybe in your attempt to hit it hard your muscles tighten. Recipe for disaster.
 

nyta2

Semi-Pro
things that make me frame when accelerating hard...
* over rotating
* not keepin g eyes on contact (head jerks up moving me off swing plane)
* popping up (vs. staying down) - which moves me off the proper swing plane
* not stayhing in balance (which makes it hard to stay on the proper swing path)
* being too tense (taking me off proper swing path)
 

AnyPUG

Semi-Pro
I notice that.

When I see a ball set up too nice, too good not to smack it with forehand, I swing at it with much more acceleration than average, I tend to frame it!!!

I remember telling myself to look at the ball longer, to keep the shape of the swing nice and correct and everything.

So how do pro's accelerate their rackets, ie hitting winners, and never frame the shots? What's the check list for this?
There's only one thing missing here - it's the dreaded forehand LAG!!!! If you have the correct lag, you can swing as hard as you can and you will never ever frame again (figuratively speaking, you might still occasionally).
My suggestion - learn to hit with lag - and when you accelerate, ensure that lag is there until it becomes a second nature.

And one last thing - don't listen to folks who tell you 100 different things to keep track - it's not easy to keep track of everything - just master the lag and your freedom to swing fast is secured like you never believe!
 

Dragy

Hall of Fame
Maybe in your attempt to hit it hard your muscles tighten. Recipe for disaster.
I guess this. It's typical to tense up trying to hit hard - you receive feedback and ingrain what is actually resisting acceleration... But arm feels STRONK so we continue doing it.
What actually works to hit harder is to:
- Coil better;
- Use leg drive more, push harder;
- Flatten the swingpath;
- Extend past the ball, avoid pulling the racquet away from contact.
 

Jake Speeed

Rookie
I notice that.

When I see a ball set up too nice, too good not to smack it with forehand, I swing at it with much more acceleration than average, I tend to frame it!!!

I remember telling myself to look at the ball longer, to keep the shape of the swing nice and correct and everything.

So how do pro's accelerate their rackets, ie hitting winners, and never frame the shots? What's the check list for this?
"Check list?" "Roads, where we're going we don't need roads." I'm being cute while I can, remember, I'm old.

Is there a "check list" in tennis? I never had one, but that's me. I've never thought about "framing the shot."

Can you say or spell "angles?"

Watch Pro level of play. If you say, "Gee, I never get angles like that when I play?" Or, "Gee, I'm never in that place on the court?"

I would dig in and find out why not? If you have time to "frame a shot" you have more time to give this hit a bit more consideration.

That is, more top spin or even side spin, better angle of placement, less speed, flatter hit, etc.

Tennis isn't just power and speed. The type of ball you hit and where you hit it has much to do with winning the point. This tactic is better than that put away or "framed shot" you don't always make.

Discipline. Always have it.

PURETENNISsense, has a post someplace about not taking that "end the point" shot all the time. See if I can find it.
 

LeeD

Bionic Poster
PRACTICE?
Maybe during practice hitting sessions, go all out and crush some shots, like that famous Monaco video with Monfils.
 

socallefty

Hall of Fame
practice.
If you practice mostly rally balls and you mostly hit rally balls. Then you want to hit a slap-shot winner, you're timing is off. All your references are off. You have no muscle-memory to prepare for and hit that shot.
I do a drill off baseline feeds with a hitting partner where we can win points only by hitting a winner. So, forced and unforced errors don’t count towards winning or losing points. Just winning 5 points each can take more than 30 minutes with an equal-level player. This drill is really great for promoting hitting out.

Usually, we will do this drill only after doing some consistency drills where we are trying to get to 30 or 50 shots in a cooperative rally a few times. That helps with shot tolerance.
 

TagUrIt

Hall of Fame
I was going to suggest practice match-like competitive rallies. You need to see and feel more balls that are struck for winners. My doubles partner and I play to ten. The only way to win a point is to hit a winner deep into the court (drop shots or balls that land before/near the service boxes don’t count) You can use whatever rules/guidelines you want, just make it competitive not cooperative.
 

fuzz nation

G.O.A.T.
things that make me frame when accelerating hard...
* over rotating
* not keepin g eyes on contact (head jerks up moving me off swing plane)
* popping up (vs. staying down) - which moves me off the proper swing plane

* not stayhing in balance (which makes it hard to stay on the proper swing path)
* being too tense (taking me off proper swing path)
Very often this is the culprit. When we swing at the ball, we've picked out a point in space relative to our head where the ball is headed. Moving our heads as we swing also moves that point of reference, so the ball catches the frame instead of the heart of the strings.

I notice that.

When I see a ball set up too nice, too good not to smack it with forehand, I swing at it with much more acceleration than average, I tend to frame it!!!

I remember telling myself to look at the ball longer, to keep the shape of the swing nice and correct and everything.

So how do pro's accelerate their rackets, ie hitting winners, and never frame the shots? What's the check list for this?
Think about what happens when driving a car. If I'm in town and pulling away from a stoplight in a Corolla, for this example I'll accelerate at a reasonable rate and get to perhaps 35 mph in 6 seconds. But if I'm accelerating onto a highway and need to get up to 65 mph to blend with traffic, my car doesn't magically turn into a Corvette that can get to that speed in the same 6 seconds. My Corolla will get to 65 just fine with a little extra time to speed up.

Compare that analogy in the car with swinging a racquet. Too often we can trick ourselves into waiting for the incoming ball to get to that same distance as when we're going to hit an average stroke. Since we don't have extra time to accelerate the racquet a little bit more (or maybe a lot more), we "floor it" in Corvette mode. That's when we have a lot less control.

So instead of waiting too long and mashing the gas pedal when trying to hit a harder shot, be a Corolla. Focus on loading into your swing and getting it going just slightly earlier. Compare some of your ghost strokes (practice swings including leg drive) where you take an average swing vs. a harder one. The harder swing can feel plenty smooth and consistent when we're not rushing to meet an incoming ball. We just need that extra fraction of a second to get it going.
 

user92626

G.O.A.T.
Thanks, everyone.

I just came back from a match where I lost, guess what, by framing too many shots. Even my friend commented about it. We went to a TB and a handful of framing really destroyed my chance.

I'm gonna take notes of everything you guys said.

But in the meantime I think i"m gonna learn how to play like a MEP. Gosh, so depressing. MEPs seem happy and oblivious to opponent's pain.
 

Ash_Smith

Legend
I notice that.

When I see a ball set up too nice, too good not to smack it with forehand, I swing at it with much more acceleration than average, I tend to frame it!!!

I remember telling myself to look at the ball longer, to keep the shape of the swing nice and correct and everything.

So how do pro's accelerate their rackets, ie hitting winners, and never frame the shots? What's the check list for this?
You're probably accelerating too early (trying to accelerate from too far away from the ball) - delay your acceleration until closer to the contact point
 

Fintft

Legend
Thanks, everyone.

I just came back from a match where I lost, guess what, by framing too many shots. Even my friend commented about it. We went to a TB and a handful of framing really destroyed my chance.

I'm gonna take notes of everything you guys said.

But in the meantime I think i"m gonna learn how to play like a MEP. Gosh, so depressing. MEPs seem happy and oblivious to opponent's pain.
What is a MEP?

And I don't think anyone mentioned breathing properly, like you inhale when the opponent is about to hit the ball and you start exhaling before the ball bounces (if I remember correctly).

Anyhow this really helped me today (on top of the other things that were suggested to you, such as keeping head still, proper swing path and so forth)...
 

user92626

G.O.A.T.
You're probably accelerating too early (trying to accelerate from too far away from the ball) - delay your acceleration until closer to the contact point
Thanks.

That's a new concept for me. So i think in all likelihood that is the culprit because I swear I tried to look at the ball harder, longer, keep my head steadier, pace well, keep the form right. It's frustrating.


Alright, back to the drawing table!! :giggle: :D
 

user92626

G.O.A.T.
What is a MEP?

And I don't think anyone mentioned breathing properly, like you inhale when the opponent is about to hit the ball and you start exhaling before the ball bounces (if I remember correctly).

Anyhow this really helped me today (on top of the other things that were suggested to you, such as keeping head still, proper swing path and so forth)...
MEP = Most Ennoying Player.

They're fearsome and disgusting at the same time to the general population. Like lepers. But I like them.
 

Fintft

Legend
Thanks.

That's a new concept for me. So i think in all likelihood that is the culprit because I swear I tried to look at the ball harder, longer, keep my head steadier, pace well, keep the form right. It's frustrating.


Alright, back to the drawing table!! :giggle: :D
So you sure that you are relaxed?
Again for me, a couple of hours ago, that didn't happen untill I made sure that I've started exhaling before swinging....
 

ByeByePoly

G.O.A.T.
Regarding this OP framing phenomenon ... did anyone mention the steep low to high thingy combined with the fast rhs thingy? That's when Fed does it ... once a year.
 

Curious

Legend
Regarding this OP framing phenomenon ... did anyone mention the steep low to high thingy combined with the fast rhs thingy? That's when Fed does it ... once a year.
Any rec player using a forehand grip more extreme than eastern and not having clean contact doesn’t surprise me. With those grips you have to hit the ball towards the end of forward swing for the racket face to be vertical to the ground-square with the ball. Even worse is that the racket is also going up steeply at that moment. Good luck with it.
 

Digital Atheist

Professional
Thanks.

That's a new concept for me. So i think in all likelihood that is the culprit because I swear I tried to look at the ball harder, longer, keep my head steadier, pace well, keep the form right. It's frustrating.


Alright, back to the drawing table!! :giggle: :D
Here's a video that might give you some ideas on how to avoid jerky, late, or early acceleration. Vrooooom!


I'm guessing in your situation this is happening more on shorter balls?


And +1 for not trying to smoke a winner on some of these shots. I'm sure you know that but find it hard to resist.
 
Last edited:

Traffic

Hall of Fame
I do a drill off baseline feeds with a hitting partner where we can win points only by hitting a winner. So, forced and unforced errors don’t count towards winning or losing points. Just winning 5 points each can take more than 30 minutes with an equal-level player. This drill is really great for promoting hitting out.

Usually, we will do this drill only after doing some consistency drills where we are trying to get to 30 or 50 shots in a cooperative rally a few times. That helps with shot tolerance.
During practice sessions, I'll always try unloading on a few shots. That way, I can use it in a match if the opportunity arises. So then it becomes a practiced shot.
 

ByeByePoly

G.O.A.T.
Anyone else not buying what the guy in this video is selling?
Yep ... but I would add more detail:

1) full torso/shoulder turn
2) start rotation forward ... hand traveling with shoulder line
3) boost acceleration with arm after initial forward shoulder rotation ... easy and smooth because jumping off momentum already started with shoulder rotation
4) ride that momentum through contact ... you aren't boosting anymore right before contact (imo this is the point he focused on).

So ... yep ... I'm buying his explanation of when we are adding acceleration and that we just ride that earlier acceleration through contact.
 
Yep ... but I would add more detail:

1) full torso/shoulder turn
2) start rotation forward ... hand traveling with shoulder line
3) boost acceleration with arm after initial forward shoulder rotation ... easy and smooth because jumping off momentum already started with shoulder rotation
4) ride that momentum through contact ... you aren't boosting anymore right before contact (imo this is the point he focused on).

So ... yep ... I'm buying his explanation of when we are adding acceleration and that we just ride that earlier acceleration through contact.
So at some point, while heading toward the ball, you have to “curb your acceleration?”
That’s pretty, that’s prettyyyy, prettyyyyy, pretty tough to do.

 

mnttlrg

Professional
OP:
Technique, timing, balance, and all the other boring stuff.

But mostly just because people don't know how to hit the ball correctly.
 
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