Why do you think Murray didn't make the jump in sucess the top-3 did?

steenkash

Hall of Fame
There was a time where Murray was expected to have much more success than Novak, but Novak has since surpassed him, and Murray's chase of the top-3 was halted. Murray by his own right is an imperious player, but it's just sad to see that he would reach double figures as I hoped he would.
 
Murray is like Lendl without Lendl's talent
Lendl is Murray playing in Big 3 less era.

There was a time where Murray was expected to have much more success than Novak, but Novak has since surpassed him, and Murray's chase of the top-3 was halted. Murray by his own right is an imperious player, but it's just sad to see that he would reach double figures as I hoped he would.

Primarily an underpowered forehand and a weaker 2nd serve. People talk the most about his 2nd serve but I think the forehand was actually a bigger issue. There's also a movement issue that he didn't slide on HC so while he was faster than Djokovic, he defended less efficiently.
 
Murray switched to lighter frame due to his shoulder problems early on, so he lost that "zing" he had on his shots. I think that is the main reason why he lost domination over big 3.
 
Because he wasn't good enough mentally do compete at the highest level. I remember the pre-Lendl Murray, he brought the A game in best of 3 matches but in best of 5 emotional roller coasters took place.
 
He was the one that is hardest to beat from the rest of the tour. He should be best example how good big 3 actually are.
 
prob that lendl got lucky wasn't playing against big 3

Lendl would have done great in any era, especially Lendl! He was the first guy to analyze and prepare his diet and workout plans based on modern science. He was the quickest to adapt on modern technology too. If Lendl played in 2019 we would call them the Big 4, not just the big 4 out of hype, like they did with Murray.
 
Lendl would have done great in any era, especially Lendl! He was the first guy to analyze and prepare his diet and workout plans based on modern science. He was the quickest to adapt on modern technology too. If Lendl played in 2019 we would call them the Big 4, not just the big 4 out of hype, like they did with Murray.
you actually should have addressed this to red rick, if my assumption about his notion was correct
 
I think he actually overachieved . He won slams and OG that he perhaps should never have won, but he deserved to on the day.

He pushed his limited talent as far as he could by becoming a physical beast.

If he had a forehand that wasn't mostly a push, then he becomes an even bigger threat for the other 3.
That was all he was lacking IMO to be as good as Djokovic . But obviously it was a big weakness.
I don't think mentally there was a problem as someone has mentioned.
It was purely skill he lacked in some areas.
But what a great competitor.
 
The answer to the question lies in his first 4 slam finales. He was cowardly, too nervous, had no confidence. You go into a slam finale with that attitude and you can barely win a set against the Big 3.
 
Murray was born as a defensive type of player and hats off to him for going against his nature and bagging the GS and no 1 spot. It’s not been easy winning GS even if you’re in the same ballpark of talent and dedication as Roger/Rafa/Nole when you just don’t have that offensive killer instinct. That’s why he’ll retire with the same amount of big ones as Stan the Man.

Amazing tactician, though.
 
Murray is more talented than Lendl.

The 80s were more competitive than the Big 3 era. Otherwise Lendl, Becker and others would have each won double-digit slams. None of them did. Simple maths.

Murray has pea sized balls.
Did you ever see Lendl moan like a 3 year old at his box, clutch his leg when things went pear shaped and cry when he lost ??? That’s the real difference.
 
Murray has pea sized balls.
Did you ever see Lendl moan like a 3 year old at his box, clutch his leg when things went pear shaped and cry when he lost ??? That’s the real difference.
It's a generational thing too, definitely. Plus Lendl grew up in harsher conditions than Murray who had everything served to him on a plate in a sense.

Murray is a feminist, too. That might explain a few things...
 
What has his hygiene got to do with this?

Haha touché but i still firmly stand behind what i said. I think Murray had the game to compete with the other 3 and i don't think his FH nor his mental focus was a big problem at all. His second serve WAS a problem because too many players attacked it and put him on the back foot immediately but again, his all-round game was fine in my view. I've been watching Murray his entire career and despite obviously being one of the fittest players on the tour, he would consistently tire out faster than the other 3 and i refuse to accept its his game-style. Federer you could maybe dismiss because he plays aggressive quick fire tennis but Nadal and Djokovic have a way more grindy physical game yet barely tire and seemingly have unlimited stamina.

Also i'm not saying Murray's comparatively low slam count is completely dependant on possible cheating by the others. His serve became garbage in the latter 1/3 of his career and he seemingly never fixed it, possibly due to his back issues and he would often refuse to pull the trigger during rallies when he should of but he showed time and time again that he can compete with them yet couldn't outlast them in the same way almost every other player on the tour can't, even now. I find that suspicious even if noone else does.
 
Personally I felt that Murray's build and physical fitness weren't good enough for the long haul and that has been proven true. I like Murray but never believed the "big 4" hype. There is a BIG 3, that's for sure! (:
 
Personally I felt that Murray's build and physical fitness weren't good enough for the long haul and that has been proven true. I like Murray but never believed the "big 4" hype. There is a BIG 3, that's for sure! :)
His build?

He's got two arms and two legs, hasn't he?

He's 190, not too tall.

He's not obese, nor is he devoid of muscle.

The reason he never fulfilled his potential is because of his confidence. It is much smaller than that of the Big 3.
 
They are simply better than him.
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Murray is just too mentally weak. Shanghai 2012 final tells us everything we need to know. For me that was the moment when I knew Murray will never become an all time great. He was coming from having lots of success in 2012, winning Olympics gold and USO. But then this choke happened and it brought him down once and for all.
 
Haha touché but i still firmly stand behind what i said. I think Murray had the game to compete with the other 3 and i don't think his FH nor his mental focus was a big problem at all. His second serve WAS a problem because too many players attacked it and put him on the back foot immediately but again, his all-round game was fine in my view. I've been watching Murray his entire career and despite obviously being one of the fittest players on the tour, he would consistently tire out faster than the other 3 and i refuse to accept its his game-style. Federer you could maybe dismiss because he plays aggressive quick fire tennis but Nadal and Djokovic have a way more grindy physical game yet barely tire and seemingly have unlimited stamina.

Also i'm not saying Murray's comparatively low slam count is completely dependant on possible cheating by the others. His serve became garbage in the latter 1/3 of his career and he seemingly never fixed it, possibly due to his back issues and he would often refuse to pull the trigger during rallies when he should of but he showed time and time again that he can compete with them yet couldn't outlast them in the same way almost every other player on the tour can't, even now. I find that suspicious even if noone else does.

I think Murray's injuries is what killed his game, I don't at all believe that Novak or Rafa has cheated and taken performance-enhancing drugs, Murray was on the same wavelength as them in terms of having unlimited stamina. I think in the end he just did not have the same mental drive as the two mentioned. I would have loved andy to win 10
 
I think Murray's injuries is what killed his game, I don't at all believe that Novak or Rafa has cheated and taken performance-enhancing drugs, Murray was on the same wavelength as them in terms of having unlimited stamina. I think in the end he just did not have the same mental drive as the two mentioned. I would have loved andy to win 10
RF fans think that somehow RF would be the only clean one if everyone else was doping.

How naive.
 
Murray is just too mentally weak. Shanghai 2012 final tells us everything we need to know. For me that was the moment when I knew Murray will never become an all time great. He was coming from having lots of success in 2012, winning Olympics gold and USO. But then this choke happened and it brought him down once and for all.
But he then beat Novak at Wimby half a year later...
 
Simply, and purely from watching him over the years on the boob tube, he’s not that good. That’s not to say he isn’t a ‘great’ player...just not in the same way everybody is who isn’t a (current) Big 3. The world needs Harold Solomon’s too.
 
Simply, and purely from watching him over the years on the boob tube, he’s not that good. That’s not to say he isn’t a ‘great’ player...just not in the same way everybody is who isn’t a (current) Big 3. The world needs Harold Solomon’s too.
People often connect talent to success, failing to realize that many great talents fail or underachieve.

Murray is just as talented as the other three, or at least Novak and Rafa. But because he won 3 instead of 15 slams people tend to diminish his potential.
 
Yeah, it's like saying Lance Armstrong was the only one doping during his wins
Literally every cyclist was doping. Probably still is.

When there is massive doping then everybody does it.

But somehow RF fans believe RF is a saint, a divine being that gets his power from the cosmic center of Theravada.
 
Simply because he is just not ATG player material. He could have won more though, maybe 5-6 slams if he had more luck.
 
Simply because he is just not ATG player material. He could have won more though, maybe 5-6 slams if he had more luck.

Well, make your mind up. If you think he could have won 5-6 Slams (as most of us do), then he must be ATG player material (unless you don't subscribe to the generally held opinion that guys such as Becker and Edberg are ATGs).
 
Murray is just too mentally weak. Shanghai 2012 final tells us everything we need to know. For me that was the moment when I knew Murray will never become an all time great. He was coming from having lots of success in 2012, winning Olympics gold and USO. But then this choke happened and it brought him down once and for all.

Well, let's not go that far (he did go on to win more Slams and other big titles and make #1 after all) but I agree with you that it was an infamous and pointless choke and one that put a spoke in a nice little run of wins he had been building up against Djokovic. Had he converted any of those 5 match points he would likely have got into Djokovic's head with a 3rd straight victory over him that year and it would, in all likelihood, have set him up nicely for their next encounter in the 2013 AO final. I still feel furious when I think of that match and what, by implication, he squandered.
 
Yeah, Murray is a great guy. It's just sad that he never got to be as good as the top-3, I remember him hitting that around the court shot against Gasquet, when he came back from 2 sets down.

He hit another amazing round-the-net shot against Cilic at 2010 AO. Always makes me laugh when detractors claim he is dull and incapable of hitting spectacular shots. :cool:
 
Technically he wasn't as complete as them and he's not the same level of natural athlete IMO.
 
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