why does murray struggle with berdych?

[mike danny]

i know it is a bit late but i rewatched hightlights form their cincy match and i remebered to post this.

murray and djokovic have similar games so how come djokovic owns berdych while murray struggles with him? berdych has won their last 2 matches on 2 different surfaces. i mean ok at madrid it was clay which murray does not like but when i saw him lose to berd in straights i was thinking: why does this guy keep losing to berd? i know he peaks only for the slams now but doesn't he have a bit of pride to not lose to this guy?

i know murray won their most important match at the USO last year but the wind did play a huge part in his win. not looking for excuses but you can see the difference in berdch's game without wind. before the wind started to increase berdych had won the first set. they are scheduled to meet in the quarters. i think berdych will reach the quarters he is in pretty good form. i want to see if murray beats berdych time without any wind.

by the way things are looking their QF match smells like upset to me. if murray plays like he did in their last 2 matches i see berdych wrapping it up in 4

so again? why does murray struggle with berd while nole not?

 

[fastgrass]

because his pushing style doesn't work for flat hitters
Definitely murra will lose 1640 points at USO may fall in rankings if berd make it to we quarters

 

[Candide]

That's an easy one. It's because Berdych is a very good tennis player. Hasn't anyone noticed this before?

 

[josofo]

berdych is capable of playing some incredible tennis.

if berdych plays a really good match he is a better player than murray.

he can serve better. he can attack virtually every ball, he can get to net and knock off the volley winners.

djokovic and nadal generally have been better players than murray so its not really stunning they do better vs him in than murray does.

 

[kalyan4fedever]

Duh, everyone knows the answer. Berdych can punish pushing style of murra with some aggressive shots, unless the court is very slow berdych does have a huge advantage over him

 

[mike danny]

i still think murray will have his hands full with berdych before meeting novak. even if he gets past berdych djokovic will be fresher than him now that delpo is out

 

[tennis_pro]

I also think that if there's no wind and Berdych beats Wawrinka (he trails in the h2h btw), he's got a very good chance of upseting Murray in the quarters. If it wasn't for wind last year Berdych would probably lead the h2h 7-3.

 

[Homeboy Hotel]

Just like how Federer struggles, Berdych hits big and goes for broke - sometimes it pays off, sometimes not.

 

[Nathaniel_Near]

Berdych has very impressive offensive weaponry and Murray feeds him balls that are asking to be smacked around like they are Poland. Djokovic and Nadal get away with it more because they tend to hit a heavier ball which is a little harder to attack along with the fact that they are clearly superior athletes and can cover the ground more efficiently for longer periods of time. As excellent as Murray's ability is to soak up aggression, he often doesn't pass the required threshold to hold off the juggernaut that is Berdych.

 

[Fedex]

berdych is capable of playing some incredible tennis.

if berdych plays a really good match he is a better player than murray

You don't think Murray can play incredible tennis then with Wimbledon, USO, Olympic Gold and 9 Masters titles?

Check out Berdych's 1 Masters title to give you a clue as to who might be the better player?

I also think that if there's no wind and Berdych beats Wawrinka (he trails in the h2h btw), he's got a very good chance of upseting Murray in the quarters. If it wasn't for wind last year Berdych would probably lead the h2h 7-3.

Must have been very windy at last years WTF?

 

[Warmaster]

Berdych likes to attack the second serve for one.

Berdych's mentality is the biggest factor though. He really believes he can win against Murray and Federer (now at least).

 

[Sim]

I think because Murray doesn't abuse Berdych's weaker movement enough. When you watch Nadal and Djokovic play Berdych, they keep moving him, hitting angled shots and/or side to side. So Berdych doesn't get a clean attempt for a winner very often, and trying to do so is a low percentage play. Win situation for Nadal/Djokovic.

Whereas Murray doesn't move Berdych well enough, perhaps by not going down the line enough. If Murray wants to beat Berdych, he can only if he keeps moving him side to side because Berdych is not the greatest mover or defender. However, Berdych is a great ballstriker, and if Murray is going to hit passive shots during a rally, Berdych has a great chance to win. I believe it's the same for Wawrinka as he's beaten Murray before in the USO as well. Hopefully, Lendl makes Murray play more aggressive since this is the only time I enjoy watching Murray play.

 

[tennis_pro]

Must have been very windy at last years WTF?

Ehmmm I didn't say that Berdych would win every match, I said that the wind screwed him up in the US Open SF against Murray cause he was in hot form. Even with the wind he almost pushed it to a 5th set.

 

[TTMR]

Murray tends to struggle against players with talent.

 

[The_Begum_of_Bhopal]

Murray generally hits flat with medium pace. Berdych eats this kind of ball for breakfast so he can always put Murray on the defensive with undisrupted big hitting. However, Djokovic hit's much more heavier balls with more topspin. These disrupt Berdychs ball striking meaning that he cannot put Djokovic on the defensive as much as he can with Murray.

 

[djokovic2008]

I think because Murray doesn't abuse Berdych's weaker movement enough. When you watch Nadal and Djokovic play Berdych, they keep moving him, hitting angled shots and/or side to side. So Berdych doesn't get a clean attempt for a winner very often, and trying to do so is a low percentage play. Win situation for Nadal/Djokovic.Whereas Murray doesn't move Berdych well enough, perhaps by not going down the line enough. If Murray wants to beat Berdych, he can only if he keeps moving him side to side because Berdych is not the greatest mover or defender. However, Berdych is a great ballstriker, and if Murray is going to hit passive shots during a rally, Berdych has a great chance to win. I believe it's the same for Wawrinka as he's beaten Murray before in the USO as well. Hopefully, Lendl makes Murray play more aggressive since this is the only time I enjoy watching Murray play.

Good post, if you let Berdych set up he can hit through ANYONE, murray could be in big trouble if the conditions are right.

 

[josofo]

You don't think Murray can play incredible tennis then with Wimbledon, USO, Olympic Gold and 9 Masters titles?

Check out Berdych's 1 Masters title to give you a clue as to who might be the better player?



Must have been very windy at last years WTF?

the seeding helps murray.


berdych has gone through some periods where he was rallying with people to much. he plays his best when he is hitting as big as he can at the lines.

 

[augustobt]

Only on clay.

 

[als47]

the seeding helps murray.

And how is seeding determined?

 

[josofo]

And how is seeding determined?

by earlier tournaments with similar seeding.

 

[tennis_pro]

Only on clay.

Apart from winning all 3 clay matches:

The only straight set win for Murray was in Dubai 2012 which still was pretty close - 6-3 7-5.

 

[augustobt]

Oh, but come on, I see Murray clearly tanking that match in Cinci earlier this year. But on clay theres nothing to debate, Birdman beat the hell out of murray. Their match in Monte Carlo last year showed this pretty clearly. Murray strugled to hold serve every single service game.

 

[TheF1Bob]

Berdych only lost to Murray last year thanks to the tornadoes. Hopefully it will be a calm sunny day when they meet this time around.

 

[tennis_pro]

Oh, but come on, I see Murray clearly tanking that match in Cinci earlier this year. But on clay theres nothing to debate, Birdman beat the hell out of murray. Their match in Monte Carlo last year showed this pretty clearly. Murray strugled to hold serve every single service game.

If Berrdych beats Wawrinka, I expect to him to give Murray hell in the QF.

 

[Sreeram]

Most of the comments are BS. Murray is way better player than Berdych hands down. All the wind thing in last year Us open is just an excuse given by Murray haters. Berdych has only one style of play, such a player depends heavily for his game to click. But murray is more versatile and can win a match in more than one way. Berdych just got lucky with murray few times where he was able to get his game going thats all. This also increased his confidence against Murray. He believes he can bring it again each time they meet. The wind excuse given by Berd after losing to Murray last year is a clear fact that he imagines himself to be a better player. Sadly his career speaks for his lack of talent. Anyone can bash the ball and live a life out of luck.

 

[Mainad]

Murray tends to struggle against players with talent.

That's very true. But I wonder why the obviously more talented Berdych has won 20 less titles than the obviously less talented Murray and is the only one of the current top 10 players not to win a single title this year when he is up against players who are mostly less talented than him?

 

[granddog29]

That's very true. But I wonder why the obviously more talented Berdych has won 20 less titles than the obviously less talented Murray and is the only one of the current top 10 players not to win a single title this year when he is up against players who are mostly less talented than him?

Not that I would say Berdych is more talented than Berdych but there is alot more than talent that goes into success. David Nalbandian is far more talented than Andy Roddick for instance. Yet who has had the better career. Marat Safin is leaps above Lleyton Hewitt in talent, yet Hewitt has achieved more. There are some people who think half of the top 100 is more talented than Nadal yet Nadal's achievements gulf all but Federer at this point.

I would say in terms of talent Berdych and Murray are both above Djokovic, yet both have achieved considerably less.

 

[Mainad]

Not that I would say Berdych is more talented than Berdych but there is alot more than talent that goes into success. David Nalbandian is far more talented than Andy Roddick for instance. Yet who has had the better career. Marat Safin is leaps above Lleyton Hewitt in talent, yet Hewitt has achieved more. There are some people who think half of the top 100 is more talented than Nadal yet Nadal's achievements gulf all but Federer at this point.

IMO it's difficult to split 'talent' from 'success'. It's all very well to say so-and-so is more talented than so-and-so but if the supposedly lesser talented one has had heaps more success, it begs a few questions as to how exactly you define talent.

I would say in terms of talent Berdych and Murray are both above Djokovic, yet both have achieved considerably less.

Yes, but I think you'd have to agree that Berdych's considerably less is infinitesimally considerably lesser than is Murray's considerably less.

 

[granddog29]

IMO it's difficult to split 'talent' from 'success'. It's all very well to say so-and-so is more talented than so-and-so but if the supposedly lesser talented one has had heaps more success, it begs a few questions as to how exactly you define talent.

That is a good point. I find too many people use their definitions of what they like to watch as talent. I also find it ridiculous people exclude things like natural ability to hit with power, physical abilities, speed, and a natural hunger to win, as part of talent. Those are things you are born with more than others and so are definitely part of talent. That is why the talent of someone like Nadal is underrated and the talent of someone like Gasquet is grossly overrated since he plays a "pretty" game.

Yes, but I think you'd have to agree that Berdych's considerably less is infinitesimally considerably lesser than is Murray's considerably less.

Beyond a doubt. Both still should have achieved more than they have though. For Berdych to have only 1 slam final and 1 Masters title way back in 2005 when nobody played is disgraceful for his abilities.

 

[fastgrass]

Murra got variety in game?
I think he is just ugly pusher!!
murra is the player in big four who can be easily outclassed
by attacking opponent as he has not weapons at all which
can save him against attackers . he is the guy who is having
lesser DR 1.64 old fed got 1.98 !!
That shows how he lacks of weapons .
HE WILL LOSE 1640 POINTS THIS USO

 

[rdis10093]

berdych will struggle to take murray out in a best of five set match. his redline game is much better for three sets as it is much harder to hit the lines for five hours.

 

[Mainad]

Match-ups can be really curious things.

Berdych v Murray: 6-4 (won last 2 matches, both played this year).
Simon v Berdych: 5-2 (won last 3 matches, last one played 2012).
Murray v Simon: 11-1 (won last 10 matches, last 2 played this year).

Simon is supposed by many on here to be Murray-lite, so how come he can handle Berdych so much better than Murray can himself, a player he has lost their last 10 matches to?

 

[TTMR]

Match-ups can be really curious things.

Berdych v Murray: 6-4 (won last 2 matches, both played this year).
Simon v Berdych: 5-2 (won last 3 matches, last one played 2012).
Murray v Simon: 11-1 (won last 10 matches, last 2 played this year).

Simon is supposed by many on here to be Murray-lite, so how come he can handle Berdych so much better than Murray can himself, a player he has lost their last 10 matches to?

Absurd argument. Yes, Simon, like Murray, has no talent; but, unlike Murray, Simon doesn't struggle against players with talent. Ergo, Simon can compete with players like Berdych who have talent, contra Murray.

 

[tmc5005]

because Murray has never been as good as Nadal or Djocovich until recently, so I doubt he will have as much trouble in the future

 

[Mainad]

Absurd argument. Yes, Simon, like Murray, has no talent; but, unlike Murray, Simon doesn't struggle against players with talent. Ergo, Simon can compete with players like Berdych who have talent, contra Murray.

So your point is that Simon only struggles against players who have no talent whilst being able to handle the talented ones with ease? In which case, why doesn't he have a better record against the likes of Federer, Nadal and Djokovic and beat them all in Slam finals? Or, are you saying that those 3 players have no talent either?

 

[granddog29]

Match-ups can be really curious things.

Berdych v Murray: 6-4 (won last 2 matches, both played this year).
Simon v Berdych: 5-2 (won last 3 matches, last one played 2012).
Murray v Simon: 11-1 (won last 10 matches, last 2 played this year).

Simon is supposed by many on here to be Murray-lite, so how come he can handle Berdych so much better than Murray can himself, a player he has lost their last 10 matches to?

Simon isnt that much like Murray. That is a lazy stereotype. The only similarility is both are viewed as predominantly defensive baseliners. However Simon is truly a pusher in the truest sense of the word. Murray is more of a shotmaker, with more variety, and alot more power in his game. Which is why he is a much better player.

Simon though is incredibly consistent, even more than Murray who himself is extremely consistent, and is willing to do whatever it takes, even hitting down the centre of the court to expose sluggish footwork (eg- Berdych) for an entire match if needed. The matches I saw he also infuriated Berdych by literally giving him no pace to work with, which is obviously not the case with Murray who does hit the ball with considerable pace atleast some of the time. Simon's strokes also can be very hard to read, especialy for a relatively slow player without great anticipation like Berdych.


The matchup combination that confounds me the most is the Davydenko vs Gonzalez vs Blake one. Blake totally owns Davydenko who totally owns Gonzalez who totally owns Blake. Extreme ownage too, I think combined the loser in each of those matchups has won only 1 match. While none of the three are exactly the same I would figure if Blake can beat Davydenko everytime out by overpowering him (really the only way he could beat him) why would Gonzalez not be able to do so even once.

 

[Feña14]

Apart from winning all 3 clay matches:

The only straight set win for Murray was in Dubai 2012 which still was pretty close - 6-3 7-5.

That's interesting, Berdych is clearly a better clay court player so that's no surprise.

Murray has won the big matches (US Open and WTF's), whilst Berdych won twice in Masters events (Paris 2011 was after Murray won Shaghai the week before, very difficult to win both of those back-to-back, whilst he was also injured and had to withdraw from the WTF's a week later, Cincy a couple of weeks ago Murray was more focused on defending the US Open title).

As a Murray fan, seeing Berdych as his opponent definitely has me worried, but looking at those results it's not as bad as I thought.

 

[fastgrass]

Match-ups can be really curious things.

Berdych v Murray: 6-4 (won last 2 matches, both played this year).
Simon v Berdych: 5-2 (won last 3 matches, last one played 2012).
Murray v Simon: 11-1 (won last 10 matches, last 2 played this year).

Simon is supposed by many on here to be Murray-lite, so how come he can handle Berdych so much better than Murray can himself, a player he has lost their last 10 matches to?

what a stupid argument!!
berdych is more talented than murra . everybody knows that .

 

[NJ1]

what a stupid argument!!
berdych is more talented than murra . everybody knows that .

Poor attempt at trolling.

 

[Rob31]

Simon isnt that much like Murray. That is a lazy stereotype. The only similarility is both are viewed as predominantly defensive baseliners. However Simon is truly a pusher in the truest sense of the word. Murray is more of a shotmaker, with more variety, and alot more power in his game. Which is why he is a much better player.

Simon though is incredibly consistent, even more than Murray who himself is extremely consistent, and is willing to do whatever it takes, even hitting down the centre of the court to expose sluggish footwork (eg- Berdych) for an entire match if needed. The matches I saw he also infuriated Berdych by literally giving him no pace to work with, which is obviously not the case with Murray who does hit the ball with considerable pace atleast some of the time. Simon's strokes also can be very hard to read, especialy for a relatively slow player without great anticipation like Berdych.


The matchup combination that confounds me the most is the Davydenko vs Gonzalez vs Blake one. Blake totally owns Davydenko who totally owns Gonzalez who totally owns Blake. Extreme ownage too, I think combined the loser in each of those matchups has won only 1 match. While none of the three are exactly the same I would figure if Blake can beat Davydenko everytime out by overpowering him (really the only way he could beat him) why would Gonzalez not be able to do so even once.

http://youtu.be/_nDqHvgq6sE
This is not pushing, he varies the pace of the ball/ waits for the right ball to attack with flat penetrating shots.
And Simon is not that consistent anyway, he makes way more Ues (and has more off-days) than Murray in his matches, generally and is much more injury-prone.
Plus, the frenchman should (i know, should, could etc) have beaten Murray in Madrid this year with a 6-2,2-0 lead but choked badly.

You can't be a top 20 player with highest ranking as n°6 and be "truly a pusher in the truest sense of the word", it's complete nonsense.
Vs Nadal:
http://youtu.be/5XQqU-h7VPk
http://youtu.be/0uiJ5NKK4ns
http://youtu.be/BA1oDo3soCg

Vs Del Potro:
http://youtu.be/NB9ONOL5hKk

I clearly don't know what you're talking about, he can play with good pace and is deceptively powerful when he goes for his shots when he's healthy and confident.
This guy has always been underrated anyway so...

 

[President]

Simon isnt that much like Murray. That is a lazy stereotype. The only similarility is both are viewed as predominantly defensive baseliners. However Simon is truly a pusher in the truest sense of the word. Murray is more of a shotmaker, with more variety, and alot more power in his game. Which is why he is a much better player.

Simon though is incredibly consistent, even more than Murray who himself is extremely consistent, and is willing to do whatever it takes, even hitting down the centre of the court to expose sluggish footwork (eg- Berdych) for an entire match if needed. The matches I saw he also infuriated Berdych by literally giving him no pace to work with, which is obviously not the case with Murray who does hit the ball with considerable pace atleast some of the time. Simon's strokes also can be very hard to read, especialy for a relatively slow player without great anticipation like Berdych.


The matchup combination that confounds me the most is the Davydenko vs Gonzalez vs Blake one. Blake totally owns Davydenko who totally owns Gonzalez who totally owns Blake. Extreme ownage too, I think combined the loser in each of those matchups has won only 1 match. While none of the three are exactly the same I would figure if Blake can beat Davydenko everytime out by overpowering him (really the only way he could beat him) why would Gonzalez not be able to do so even once.

I agree with your analysis. As for Davy vs Blake vs Gonzo, I think that Gonzales and Blake are actually pretty different players. Blake takes the ball very early and hits flat, Gonzales liked to wait deeper behind the baseline and unleash a huge forehand with big topspin and pace. He used a pretty extreme grip on his FH too, he is almost like a more aggressive Nadal in that sense. IMO Davydenko and Blake have more in common with each other than Gonzales, Davydenko was confounded by Blake's ability to take time away from him with his great speed, ability to take the ball early, and huge power (kind of like his matchup problem with Robin Soderling except Blake has speed too). It's also the same problem Davydenko had with Federer, Gonzales didn't really take Davy's time away because he didn't take the ball early enough.

 

[Rob31]

Your "analysis" are often biased, President.