Why does someone choose a Western grip?

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by acintya, May 16, 2018.

  1. acintya

    acintya Hall of Fame

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    Do you also think there is at once a odd but also a satisfiing feel when you try to hit with western forehand? Its kinda you can "lock" it in some way - and that makes it more reliable - for me. I have hit all my life with SW but now I am trying extreme sw and western. not so bad

    I wonder what makes pro players choose western grip?
     
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  2. Chas Tennis

    Chas Tennis Legend

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    I don't know.

    Speculation - But if we had overhead videos of forehands I believe that one thing that we would notice is that the forearm-to-racket angle would be smaller at impact for the Western Grips. ?

    The effectiveness of any grip depends on the forehand technique so first observe your technique with high speed video.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2018
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  3. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    How many high bouncing balls do you hit compared with how many low' short balls do you play?
     
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  4. Dartagnan64

    Dartagnan64 Legend

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    At our tennis club bounces tend to be lower (moist heavy sea level air and slippery hard courts) so Western grips don't work so well. I hit with a conservative SW grip. But if I go down south to Palm Desert, bounces are higher and I naturally gravitate to a stronger SW grip.
     
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  5. jhick

    jhick Professional

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    I'm old school but prefer an eastern grip. I feel like it's the most versatile. I tend to be a flat hitter but can also hit topspin when needed. Semiwestern I can understand, but I have no idea how you hit a low ball using a full western. If I'm playing an opponent with a western grip, I'll try to hit low balls, with lots of backhand slices.
     
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  6. weelie

    weelie Rookie

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    Pros start very young, might be that western works well as a kid, when all balls a high and high percentage wins?
     
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  7. dman72

    dman72 Hall of Fame

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    There is something tremendously fiendish about taking someones semi attempted moonball, switching from my normal semi to a full western, and launching a ball 30 feet into the air, having it hit 2 feet from the baseline, and the opponent having no chance of returning it as it bounces over their heads.

    Other than that, I don't get full western either.
     
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  8. tlm

    tlm G.O.A.T.

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    I love using full western grip. I think the advantage is that you can swing away and still keep most of your shots in.
     
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  9. FailBetter

    FailBetter Rookie

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    its the western grip which chooses you
     
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  10. Pete Player

    Pete Player Hall of Fame

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    Could you explain ”swing away” in detail?


    ——————————
    On pain meds - all contributed matter and anti-matter subject to disclaimer
     
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  11. TennisCJC

    TennisCJC Legend

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    main reason player select W grip is they don't know how to hit topspin or they are really short and make contact on a lot of FH above their shoulders. I think it is a poor grip for 99% of the tennis playing public.
     
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  12. Raul_SJ

    Raul_SJ Hall of Fame

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    I dont know about pros but I played a 3.5 doubles player that was hitting lobs that would suddenly kick up and bounce over your head. It was ridiculous. Nobody could return them (3.5 players). I wish I had that specialty shot.

    Asked him how he did it and he says he uses a Western grip to hit that shot and brushes up severely.
     
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  13. tlm

    tlm G.O.A.T.

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    That must be why Joker uses it. Lol
     
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  14. tlm

    tlm G.O.A.T.

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    Swing away means being able to take big cuts and hard swings. With a western grip it’s easier to take big swings and keep the ball in because you can put so much spin on the ball plus it’s hard to have the racket open to much.
     
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  15. nytennisaddict

    nytennisaddict Legend

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    lol, main reason is because they are receiving alot of moonballs, ie. juniors,... and realize it's easier to counter moonballs with topspin, with a more vertical swing path (which stays more in line with the ball they are receiving).
    if there's anything they don't know how to do (they do know how to hit topspin)... it's being able to move into position correctly to drive the ball on the rise.
    i use a more E/SW grip (converted from hawaiian)... and even when i play moonballers, i find my grip migrating more towards SW during neutral moonball rallies.
     
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  16. MasturB

    MasturB Legend

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    Western grips and the double bend forehand are destroying elbows.
     
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  17. tlm

    tlm G.O.A.T.

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    How do you know this? With all the discussion on TE on this site I can’t recall any of the players that had TE saying they use a western grip. The majority of rec players use SW or Eastern grip.
     
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  18. nytennisaddict

    nytennisaddict Legend

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    late contact destroys elbows, not the grip itself.
     
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  19. Chas Tennis

    Chas Tennis Legend

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    Post #16 - "Western grips and the double bend forehand are destroying elbows."

    I believe that I have read that Golfer's Elbow is associated with serves and forehands, not Tennis Elbow. Are you guys talking about GE?

    Tennis Elbow is definitely associated with the one hand backhand.

    I believe I read that Tennis Elbow is more common in Golf than Golfer's Elbow. Very uncertain - but if you drive a golf club into the ground that impact may cause a GE tendon tear.

    When first injured stop stressing the torn tendon immediately (and for a long time) and see a well qualified Dr. Stressing the torn tissue is said to lead to tendinosis very quickly, 2-3 weeks was one estimate. Tendinosis is defectively healed tendon tissue. See Tendon Injury Nuthouse.

    Any references?
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2018
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  20. nytennisaddict

    nytennisaddict Legend

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    golfer's elbow = medial epicondylitis = i've gotten tihs from late contact on the fh side (never from the serve)
    tennis elbow = lateral epicondylitis = i've gotten this from hitting 1hbh topspin and/or slice.

    while rest helps, you need to address the root cause (usually technique (timing is part of technique)), or it just comes back... softer strings IMO makes you more tolerant to poor technique... better to fix the technique.
     
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  21. WesternCK

    WesternCK Rookie

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    It's been touched on throughout the thread but while I don't have a single student I would overtly teach the western grip, it can generate more top spin and handle higher bouncing balls with more efficiency than say an eastern forehand. Assuming mechanics are relaxed, the correct contact point is naturally higher simply because of the grip. Since the pros are facing high ball bouncing balls quite often, and want to generate an excessive amount of topspin, the grip has creeped itself into players' games.
     
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  22. MasturB

    MasturB Legend

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    You realize the people posting on this site are a small fraction of people who play tennis all around the world?

    I apologize for responding late, as I've been busy traveling the last week.

    I know golfers elbow and tennis elbow are two different things and two different ligaments being affected. When I say tennis elbow I usually refer to common elbow injuries in tennis in general rather than differentiating between the two. Tennis Elbow is just a generic phrase I use (and some others) to describe either golfers and tennis elbow (sort of like how the term man can be used as a plural world to describe men and women generically).

    Hitting with a double bend/extreme western is so unnatural to any human activity we do. And to me it's obvious that it causes injury when you see how many elbow/wrist injuries have been racked up just amongst the top players the last few years.

    Murray - Complained of elbow pain last year.
    Nole - Complained of elbow pain for a while (says it's been 2 years but that has been disputed by Becker)
    Stan - Has complained of elbow pain at certain times the last few years.
    Raonic - Has complained of elbow pain (and Gilbert said on-air that Milos has said the sleeve he wears has somewhat helped relieve some pain)
    Nishikori - Elbow issues previously, actually had surgery.
    Querrey - Had elbow surgery previously.
    Tsonga - Several documented complaints of elbow pain.

    I could continue naming more of these.

    Meanwhile, when you look at guys who hit predominantly straight arm forehands (which is way more natural to normal human activities), there's rarely issues with elbows and wrists.
     
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  23. Bender

    Bender G.O.A.T.

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    Most amateurs with TE have eastern grips and use 1HBHs, and often are already using softer and heavier frames.

    But for whatever reason they look at all these factors and go "yes, it must be the equipment, I blame Babolat for this".

    Granted, stiff racquets do play some part and can't be ignored, but really...?
     
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  24. Chas Tennis

    Chas Tennis Legend

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    When I first started reading about elbow injuries I became familiar with using the term 'Tennis Elbow' to describe both 'Tennis Elbow' & 'Golfer's Elbow'. I have found that it is rarely done in the US and on the forum. That two-meaning usage of 'Tennis Elbow' is ambiguous. I avoid using the term 'Tennis Elbow' that way because it is ambiguous for readers.

    The locations of the pain identify 'Tennis Elbow' from 'Golfer's Elbow', it's clear. TE & GE are tendon injuries at opposite sides of the elbow. Identifying the injured tendon for the elbow is not simple because more than one tendon attaches to the lateral epicondyle (for TE) or the medial epicondyle (for GE).The finger tendons and wrist tendons and maybe others attach near the same spots on the epicondyles.

    Always start research by searching for pictures - Google: Tennis Elbow pictures or Golfer's Elbow pictures

    Ligaments attach a bone to a bone and tend to be located near joints to limit the movements of the bones.

    Tendons attach muscles to bones and exert forces on the bone in one direction only.

    Ligaments and tendons are located close to one another at the elbow. Baseball pitchers get a lot of ligament injuries relative to tennis players.

    I gave myself a GE injury 10-12 years ago. I did not see a Dr for a diagnosis. I still believe that it was a GE because of where it was located but I have learned that there is also a ligament injury that baseball pitchers get that is very close to the GE injury area. I have a little doubt now but still believe that it was a GE injury. I have had the GE injury very briefly return and also in the left elbow (once from moving logs). Any pain I stop stressing the elbow and have done so for about 3 months. I am not young and that increases risk for tendon injury.

    You should identify the injury diagnoses of the elbow injuries that you list. There's GE, TE and ligament injuries possible to start so a Dr's diagnosis is necessary.

    A player that I played doubles against had a bent elbow forehand and hit very hard. His stroke looked stressful. He complained of pain at the GE location. Another player that played singles on my 4.0 USTA team, had a similar appearing stroke and hit hard. He did not have issues but his elbow use looked stressful to me.

    Injuries to tendons are much more likely to develop tendinosis if stressed while healing. Stop stressing your new injury immediately when injured. Tendinosis is defectively healed tissue, possibly a permanent degradation of the tendon, and it may be getting worse....... Search forum or Google: Tendon Injury Nuthouse

    The first paper in the thread says that Tendinosis can have formed within 2-3 weeks of first injury.

    There are many publications available on line describing elbow injuries in tennis. Many have stroke associations. Search: Ellenbecker Elbow Tendon Injury review
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2018
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  25. zaph

    zaph Semi-Pro

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    It how I learnt how to do it when I first start playing when I was a kid. Nobody taught me it, it is just how I picked a racket up.

    The only disadvantage I see to it is having to switch grips for volleys and backhands. Can make return of serves tricky. I don't have any problems with low balls, I can even hit slice with that grip. It is what you're use to.
     
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  26. moonballs

    moonballs Hall of Fame

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    I feel GE pain and soreness from serving. My forehand used to cause GE but after I improved the technique it is good.
     
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