Why does the PS 6.0 85 swing so much easier than K90/N90/PS90??

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Gabs011

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Out of the whole prostaff 6.0 line I first tried the PS90. I was amazed at how heavy it was to swing. I came from using a PC600 was seemed MUCH easier to use in comparison.....I then tried the N90 - which turned out to be a little easier to swing but alot less solid than the PS90. I then tried the K90 which was better than both the PS90 and the N90 but still felt like an absolute log.

I finally tried the PS 6.0 85 and it was so smooth and fluid in comparison it its newer incarnations. It literally cut through the air like a knife through butter. Don't get me wrong - I could still feel the weight but - it was definitely easy to manage. How come All the newer versions seem so heavy and unwieldy??

All opinions/answers are much appreciated.....
 
It depends on which 6.0 85 you use. I have a st vincent and it swings heavier than a k90. With the k90 you have to have a fluid swing, You really have to use the shoulder to swing it rather than the arm. If you like to muscle the ball the k90 will wear you out in one set. You sort of have to make your arm into a whip completely passive if you want to reap teh true benefits of a k90.
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Gabs011 said:
Out of the whole prostaff 6.0 line I first tried the PS90. I was amazed at how heavy it was to swing. I came from using a PC600 was seemed MUCH easier to use in comparison.....I then tried the N90 - which turned out to be a little easier to swing but alot less solid than the PS90. I then tried the K90 which was better than both the PS90 and the N90 but still felt like an absolute log.

I finally tried the PS 6.0 85 and it was so smooth and fluid in comparison it its newer incarnations. It literally cut through the air like a knife through butter. Don't get me wrong - I could still feel the weight but - it was definitely easy to manage. How come All the newer versions seem so heavy and unwieldy??

All opinions/answers are much appreciated.....
Click to expand...

Because the head size is so much smaller. Less wind resistance.
 
What I don't understand is why people think the "newer versions" should swing just the same. Why should they? They are different rackets.

Most changes in rackets don't involve increasing the head size like with these Wilsons... There are more than changes in the layup and composition, the physical size of the racket has changed.

These are different rackets with higher static weights and higher swingweights, so of course the N90 and K90's swing heavier. Why shouldn't they?
 
The SW is lower - even on the St. Vincents. All the 10-12 PS 85s I've owned (different models) have swingweights below 330 while the tour 90s have a SW closer to 335-340. Also, the composition is different. I don't know what all nonsense they put into racquets now but the 85 is just kevlar/graphite.
 
What I have noticed that is different between the 85 and the newer 90 sized head versions is that the 85 is more headlight than the PS Tour 90, Ncode90 or K90. When I am swinging PS85 the more headlight balance makes it feel lighter as opposed to the newer 90 versions where more weight is in the head.
 
BreakPoint said:
Not according to TW:

http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/descpageRCWILSON-WN61T.html

http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/descpageRCWILSON-60.html

nCode 90: SW=326
PS 6.0 85: SW=329 (And that's the China version, which is the easiest to swing of the four versions of the PS 6.0 85).
Click to expand...

Since when do the TW specs represent the rackets that we actually get our hands on? Just doesn't mean much, even for the sake of comparison.

If I got a K90 or a K95 that matched the tennis warehouse specs, it would be the first.

The reality is that every PS 85 I have had in my hands has weighed less and had a lower swingweight than every N90 and K90 that I have owned. Whether Wilson meant for that to be doesn't matter if it never ends up being that way.
 
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Bottle Rocket said:
The reality is that every PS 85 I have had in my hands has weighed less and had a lower swingweight than every N90 and K90 that I have owned. Whether Wilson meant for that to be doesn't matter if it never ends up being that way.
Click to expand...
Well, every PS 6.0 85 I have had my hands on weighed more and swung heavier than every K90 and nCode90 that I have owned or had my hands on. BTW, I weigh all my racquets myself so I know.
 
RoddickistheMan said:
It depends on which 6.0 85 you use. I have a st vincent and it swings heavier than a k90. With the k90 you have to have a fluid swing, You really have to use the shoulder to swing it rather than the arm. If you like to muscle the ball the k90 will wear you out in one set. You sort of have to make your arm into a whip completely passive if you want to reap teh true benefits of a k90.
Click to expand...
2nd here! Relax and let the weight of the racquet do the job then you'll appreciate it a lot!
 
honestly the k90 feels lighter than the 85.

the 85 is less headlight and feels more solid. you also dont have to swing as fast to get the same amount of power because of that.

because the k90 is the most headlight of all of these racquets you have to swing faster. doing so allows for more spin among other things. the advantage i've found is you can take balls immediately after the bounce if your opponent is hitting very deep. but yes it is harder to swing if you don't have a very full swing.

i did try the us and asian n90 and i thought they were horrible.
 
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Bottle Rocket said:
Since when do the TW specs represent the rackets that we actually get our hands on? Just doesn't mean much, even for the sake of comparison.
Click to expand...

Wait a minute, I thought TW took 2 or 3 frames from their actual retail stock, strung them with 16g syn gut, and averaged the results.

Wouldn't that be a pretty good representation of what we get?
 
southpaw said:
Wait a minute, I thought TW took 2 or 3 frames from their actual retail stock, strung them with 16g syn gut, and averaged the results.

Wouldn't that be a pretty good representation of what we get?
Click to expand...
TW takes more than 2 or 3, they take more like 6-10 frames from their stock and measure them then average the results.
 
I wonder if you used the lighter-head Taiwan-made which is lighter head. I have a PS85, I think it's made in Chicago ("midsize" w/ worn-out bumper) which is hefty/comparatively heavier and weight-balanced than the Taiwan-made PS85. I'd tried K90 and the latter felt heavier and felt the 4-3/8 grip seems to me slightly bigger than the PS85s. BTW lately I've been using my PS95 because I went back to my 2h-backhand but still use slice both (and topspin) especially for low balls. I tried the Chicago PS85 w/ my 2h-backhand this weekend and I thought it was working okay but the string broke. Looking forward to using my PS 85 w/ renewed confidence.
 
10islobber said:
I wonder if you used the lighter-head Taiwan-made which is lighter head. I have a PS85, I think it's made in Chicago ("midsize" w/ worn-out bumper) which is hefty/comparatively heavier and weight-balanced than the Taiwan-made PS85. I'd tried K90 and the latter felt heavier and felt the 4-3/8 grip seems to me slightly bigger than the PS85s. BTW lately I've been using my PS95 because I went back to my 2h-backhand but still use slice both (and topspin) especially for low balls. I tried the Chicago PS85 w/ my 2h-backhand this weekend and I thought it was working okay but the string broke. Looking forward to using my PS 85 w/ renewed confidence.
Click to expand...

The Chicago PS85 frames were all bumperless.
 
psp2 said:
The Chicago PS85 frames were all bumperless.
Click to expand...

Thanks psp2 for correcting me. Now you've made me wonder what I've got. It has "midsize" on it and the 3 whatchamacallit at the bottom of the head where the strings are inserted. The letters at the bottom are illegible though I could see parts of the etchings. It's definitely not the lighter-head Taiwan. so it can only be China-made or something else? PS I bought it second-hand from a tennis acquaintance and rarely drops by at the courts and not even to play ever since his son was born. Oh, well, I reckon it doesn't really matter -- though it would be nice to know. :confused:
 
10islobber said:
Thanks psp2 for correcting me. Now you've made me wonder what I've got. It has "midsize" on it and the 3 whatchamacallit at the bottom of the head where the strings are inserted. The letters at the bottom are illegible though I could see parts of the etchings. It's definitely not the lighter-head Taiwan. so it can only be China-made or something else? PS I bought it second-hand from a tennis acquaintance and rarely drops by at the courts and not even to play ever since his son was born. Oh, well, I reckon it doesn't really matter -- though it would be nice to know. :confused:
Click to expand...

If it doesn't have a bumperguard it's most likely a Chicago. Though I've know people to switch out the grommets... Chicago and St. Vincent can have grommets switched but the China/Taiwan versions have slightly different hole diameters (larger) and so their grommets/bumpers don't really fit the Chicago &/or St. Vincent's.

All that said, the current models are a bit lighter than the Chicago & St. Vincent's.
 
I play with a PS 85 China (current version) with the bumper cut off, a Gamma grip in stead of the leather grip, and about 12 grams of lead tape at the top of the grip. Weighs about the same as the stock 85, but certainly swings easy..
 
Sweet racquet

I was playing last night (not sure of version) PS60 85 with Fairway leather grip, white butcap with bumper guard and it swings easy. I love the laser like pinpoint accuracy the racquet provided. Overall, it's a sweet racquet.
 
Bubba said:
Actually, it does. But we're talking such small amounts the player would never really notice it. Larger frame = larger surface area = increased resistance.
Click to expand...

I believe you should be talking about the cross-sectional area.
The difference in cross-sectional area, even between a 85 sq. inch frame and a 125 sq. inch one is so minuscule, one does not need to think about that.
 
Bubba said:
If it doesn't have a bumperguard it's most likely a Chicago. Though I've know people to switch out the grommets... Chicago and St. Vincent can have grommets switched but the China/Taiwan versions have slightly different hole diameters (larger) and so their grommets/bumpers don't really fit the Chicago &/or St. Vincent's.

All that said, the current models are a bit lighter than the Chicago & St. Vincent's.
Click to expand...

Hmm... I was thinking of purchasing from **** a set of bumperguard w/ grommets to replace my hefty PS 85. Thanks for the tip. If the China/Taiwan versions are both not hefty, then maybe i've got the coveted St. Vincent! I reckon just thinking that maybe it is probably will not only help me take good care of it but perhaps also help my game... dream on! :)
 
Bubba said:
If it doesn't have a bumperguard it's most likely a Chicago. Though I've know people to switch out the grommets... Chicago and St. Vincent can have grommets switched but the China/Taiwan versions have slightly different hole diameters (larger) and so their grommets/bumpers don't really fit the Chicago &/or St. Vincent's.

All that said, the current models are a bit lighter than the Chicago & St. Vincent's.
Click to expand...

I saw on **** that "racketguy" was selling bumper guard & grommets for about $5 plus shipping. Do you know if they would fit the PS 6.0 85 St. Vincent? Thanks for any info and happy holidays!
 
hola bird sports rates the k90 at 324
mid west sports rates the k90 at 324
TW has it at 336.

hola bird sports rates the k95 at 322
mid west sports rates the k95 at 322
TW has it at 340

Although I've never questioned TW's specs maybe their machine has been off recently? I think that the k90 was pretty comparable to the 85 when I played with it (swing wise) and I also think that the k95 is nowhere close to 340.
 
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Coda said:
hola bird sports rates the k90 at 324
mid west sports rates the k90 at 324
TW has it at 336.

hola bird sports rates the k95 at 322
mid west sports rates the k95 at 322
TW has it at 340

Although I've never questioned TW's specs maybe their machine has been off recently? I think that the k90 was pretty comparable to the 85 when I played with it (swing wise) and I also think that the k95 is nowhere close to 340.
Click to expand...
Coda, I agree!

I don't think the K90 swings anywhere near 336. However, I think 324 may be a bit on the low side. Perhaps we should just split the difference and call it 330? ;) Although I have to say that with my experience with a few K90's, my guesstimate would be more around 328 or so.
 
Gabs011 said:
Out of the whole prostaff 6.0 line I first tried the PS90. I was amazed at how heavy it was to swing. I came from using a PC600 was seemed MUCH easier to use in comparison.....I then tried the N90 - which turned out to be a little easier to swing but alot less solid than the PS90. I then tried the K90 which was better than both the PS90 and the N90 but still felt like an absolute log.

I finally tried the PS 6.0 85 and it was so smooth and fluid in comparison it its newer incarnations. It literally cut through the air like a knife through butter. Don't get me wrong - I could still feel the weight but - it was definitely easy to manage. How come All the newer versions seem so heavy and unwieldy??

All opinions/answers are much appreciated.....
Click to expand...


I don't know exactly why PS85 swings easier than N61 and K61, but I totally agree with you. Not only mid-sized racquet, but I also have the same experience with Head Radical OS. My Head Radical Agassi LE swings much easier than those LM Radical OS and FlexPoint Radical OS. There must be an optimal point where weight, size, balance, frame geometry create such a wonderful feel. Racquet manufacturers today just focus too much on new material technology and leave all fundamental racquet engineering behind.
 
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Yes, all the PS85's I have (Chicago, Vincents, Taiwan, China) swing lighter than the K90, N90, and PS Tour 90.
 
Jonny S&V said:
Because the head size is so much smaller. Less wind resistance.
Click to expand...

lethalfang said:
Head size has no impact on wind resistance.
Click to expand...

lethalfang said:
I believe you should be talking about the cross-sectional area.
The difference in cross-sectional area, even between a 85 sq. inch frame and a 125 sq. inch one is so minuscule, one does not need to think about that.
Click to expand...

You're both right!

Let me add that, much of the wind resistance is done by the stringbed, lesser but not zero by the beam... 90 with 20mm beam may swing just the same as 90 17.5mmK90... considering they have the same weight and SW...
But since OSes have wider beams and K90's have smaller beams, then all votes go the K90 or mids...

The difference between 90 and 85 may not be due to wind resistance, more so, they may be caused by weight distribution(directly affecting SW)...
 
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