Why does Zverev try to play 'tennis'? Why doesn't he play his game?

REKX

REKX

Semi-Pro
As a Federer and Nadal fan, I'm really disappointed with what I've seen with Zverev in the big grand slam matches. I don't understand why he tries to play a game that he's not suited for. He hasn't got the fluidity of movement to construct points like we've seen in past great matches like Wimbledon 2008.

When his game is on, it's very nice to watch. He hits hard, deep penetrating shots of both sides and really pushes the opponent back - backed up by a very good serve. That's his game, why or who has suggested to him to not play this way in big matches? Who is suggesting to him that it's a good idea to play high percentage side to side points when it's not his game??

I'm watching him today on grass. He is hitting such conservative shots with a lot less power, and it's often landing perfectly in the opponents hitting zone. He doesn't have the speed or footwork to rally and play the classic tennis we saw with the Big 3. That's not his game, I can't see how he will ever become a multi grand slam champion by playing this way. His opponent today, Rinnerknech, was targeting his forehand in a lot points and finding success.

Yes he will most likely come back and beat him tomorrow, but unless he changes something, he won't go as far as he could. He's seeded third and on grass it should be his game.

Maybe playing that way will use up too much energy? I don't know, he can do a lot better - he has the ability and shows it at times, but not when it matters the most.
 
REKX said:
As a Federer and Nadal fan, I'm really disappointed with what I've seen with Zverev in the big grand slam matches. I don't understand why he tries to play a game that he's not suited for. He hasn't got the fluidity of movement to construct points like we've seen in past great matches like Wimbledon 2008.

When his game is on, it's very nice to watch. He hits hard, deep penetrating shots of both sides and really pushes the opponent back - backed up by a very good serve. That's his game, why or who has suggested to him to not play this way in big matches? Who is suggesting to him that it's a good idea to play high percentage side to side points when it's not his game??

I'm watching him today on grass. He is hitting such conservative shots with a lot less power, and it's often landing perfectly in the opponents hitting zone. He doesn't have the speed or footwork to rally and play the classic tennis we saw with the Big 3. That's not his game, I can't see how he will ever become a multi grand slam champion by playing this way. His opponent today, Rinnerknech, was targeting his forehand in a lot points and finding success.

Yes he will most likely come back and beat him tomorrow, but unless he changes something, he won't go as far as he could. He's seeded third and on grass it should be his game.

Maybe playing that way will use up too much energy? I don't know, he can do a lot better - he has the ability and shows it at times, but not when it matters the most.
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we have people here calling for coaching changes for Alcaraz and Sinner

here's where we talk about coaching change....has to get it out of his family
 
marc45 said:
we have people here calling for coaching changes for Alcaraz and Sinner

here's where we talk about coaching change....has to get it out of his family
Click to expand...
I think he should go to Andy Murray as coach, if they get on. Murray was hampered by a tendency to play passively in big matches and a reluctance to attack his forehand. Zverev has similar issues and basically needs someone who'll rip into him every time he plays a match where he's negative off the forehand wing, which has been nearly every grand slam match he's played since his career began.
 
TheGoldenEra1990’s said:
Who knows what going through his mind . What goes through mind of a fly before it hits the windshield?.... It's rear end. He should have always been an attacker. He's just way too big and slow to push. Plus indoors he shows he has game to be a nice attacker
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I told you this the last time this came up, but Zod is too big to play the way you guys want him to. When you’re that tall and lanky you don’t have the explosive movement of a Carlos or Pete or Fed so it’s not as easy as you think for him to just flatten out his shots and explode into them more. He really doesn’t get off his feet when he hits groundies

He’s a bit disproportionate already, he could probably be one of those guys who gets in an Alien or Predator suit for a movie.
 
Rosstour said:
I told you this the last time this came up, but Zod is too big to play the way you guys want him to. When you’re that tall and lanky you don’t have the explosive movement of a Carlos or Pete or Fed so it’s not as easy as you think for him to just flatten out his shots and explode into them more. He really doesn’t get off his feet when he hits groundies

He’s a bit disproportionate already, he could probably be one of those guys who gets in an Alien or Predator suit for a movie.
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There's been a clear difference between the way he's played BO3 and BO5 matches throughout his career. He was beating the best in BO3 before he could make a slam 1/4 final. That might be explained by stamina were he not winning the 1st set in his BO3 matches, but losing it in BO5. I'm not saying there are no physical limitations to his game, but the biggest issues are mental.
 
reaper said:
There's been a clear difference between the way he's played BO3 and BO5 matches throughout his career. He was beating the best in BO3 before he could make a slam 1/4 final. That might be explained by stamina were he not winning the 1st set in his BO3 matches, but losing it in BO5. I'm not saying there are no physical limitations to his game, but the biggest issues are mental.
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I agree with that, but he still isn’t gonna be the guy jumping into his shots. He’s at his best when he overwhelms with depth, spin, pace and forces errors. Going for quick winners isn’t really his game aside from the serve. He’s an offensive grinder who gets passive when in winning positions.
 
I personally have given up on him winning slams. It’s obvious he has physical and mental limitations, plus he’s diabetic. Even with insulin, he has 10 years shorter life expectancy than other people, let alone his hampered physical performance. It’s already a miracle that he’s in the top 5. Leave this guy alone.
 
Yea. Its too late in his career to be trying to make changes now. Hes already 28. Now sure maybe lightning could strike like Goran circa 2001, but odds are it won't. He blew too much time.
 
reaper said:
There's been a clear difference between the way he's played BO3 and BO5 matches throughout his career. He was beating the best in BO3 before he could make a slam 1/4 final. That might be explained by stamina were he not winning the 1st set in his BO3 matches, but losing it in BO5. I'm not saying there are no physical limitations to his game, but the biggest issues are mental.
Click to expand...

To me, the most plausible explanation for that massive early career discrepancy is indeed physical: struggling to control his blood sugar over the course of a long match. This would be an explanation of the difference that doesn't rely on him starting well but letting it slip away in longer matches, because the point is that as he's insulin-dependent, he struggled to dose in such a way that his energy levels wouldn't be negatively affected at some point in a long match, even if not necessarily the end of the match.

Tennfan123 said:
I wouldn’t be surprised once he’s retired if he said he was on a strong ssri dosage most of his career.
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What are the visible symptoms of this?
 
d
marc45 said:
we have people here calling for coaching changes for Alcaraz and Sinner

here's where we talk about coaching change....has to get it out of his family
Click to expand...
Don't you think it's strange that his brother was one of the best volleyers of the last 30 years, and is embedded in Zod's coaching team, and yet Zod still volleys like a complete and utter mug? I know it's only one piece of the puzzle, but it's bizarre how little forecourt acumen Mischa has actually managed to pass on to him.
 
helterskelter said:
To me, the most plausible explanation for that massive early career discrepancy is indeed physical: struggling to control his blood sugar over the course of a long match. This would be an explanation of the difference that doesn't rely on him starting well but letting it slip away in longer matches, because the point is that as he's insulin-dependent, he struggled to dose in such a way that his energy levels wouldn't be negatively affected at some point in a long match, even if not necessarily the end of the match.



What are the visible symptoms of this?
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It’s more the emotional blunting.
 
Shaolin said:
No one likes Zod.

Go Rinderneck. Much more interesting game and better human being as well.
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shawn-michaels-sweet-chin-music.gif
 
helterskelter said:
To me, the most plausible explanation for that massive early career discrepancy is indeed physical: struggling to control his blood sugar over the course of a long match. This would be an explanation of the difference that doesn't rely on him starting well but letting it slip away in longer matches, because the point is that as he's insulin-dependent, he struggled to dose in such a way that his energy levels wouldn't be negatively affected at some point in a long match, even if not necessarily the end of the match.



What are the visible symptoms of this?
Click to expand...
He struggled from the start of the matches, not really as they became long. It may have been an attempt to conserve energy that caused him to struggle, but it didn't just happen when he fatigued.
 
Subway Tennis said:
Don't you think it's strange that his brother was one of the best volleyers of the last 30 years, and is embedded in Zod's coaching team, and yet Zod still volleys like a complete and utter mug? I know it's only one piece of the puzzle, but it's bizarre how little forecourt acumen Mischa has actually managed to pass on to him.
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No, because his brother is several inches shorter than him and doesn't have long flappy wrists. Medvedev is a similarly bad, relatively speaking, volleyer for exactly the same reasons. IIRC around the 2018/19 period the brothers Z played a lot of doubles together, presumably to try and tune the younger Zverev's volleys and it didn't do him much good.

All the best volleyers at my local club are easily below 6' and that's in no small part because it's a lot easier to have quick feet and quick hands when you've got less limb to sort out and less body weight to redirect.
 
reaper said:
I think he should go to Andy Murray as coach, if they get on. Murray was hampered by a tendency to play passively in big matches and a reluctance to attack his forehand. Zverev has similar issues and basically needs someone who'll rip into him every time he plays a match where he's negative off the forehand wing, which has been nearly every grand slam match he's played since his career began.
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Murray hired Lendl and followed his commands.
Zverev hired Lendl and basically ignored him. Same as he did with Ferrero, etc. He only listen to his dad.
 
reaper said:
He struggled from the start of the matches, not really as they became long. It may have been an attempt to conserve energy that caused him to struggle, but it didn't just happen when he fatigued.
Click to expand...

As I said, when someone is reliant on insulin, that is totally explicable as a physical phenomenon.
 
helterskelter said:
As I said, when someone is reliant on insulin, that is totally explicable as a physical phenomenon.
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Well only if insulin is infused with AI such that it can delineate between the start of a 3 set match and the start of a 5 set match. Otherwise the the relevant factor is something other than insulin.
 
reaper said:
Well only if insulin is infused with AI such that it can delineate between the start of a 3 set match and the start of a 5 set match. Otherwise the the relevant factor is something other than insulin.
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You are wrong about this. Diabetics constantly have to balance their blood sugar to avoid both it getting too high and it getting too low. There is quite a narrow sweet spot. In a best-of-five match, Zverev might well have not been able to find the right balance such that unless his blood sugar was higher than ideal early on, he risked it getting dangerously low late in the match. This could mean he would not have sufficient energy early in the match.
 
helterskelter said:
You are wrong about this. Diabetics constantly have to balance their blood sugar to avoid both it getting too high and it getting too low. There is quite a narrow sweet spot. In a best-of-five match, Zverev might well have not been able to find the right balance such that unless his blood sugar was higher than ideal early on, he risked it getting dangerously low late in the match. This could mean he would not have sufficient energy early in the match.
Click to expand...
Zverev's playing a 3 set match today. Let's see if he comes out breathing fire!
 
REKX said:
As a Federer and Nadal fan, I'm really disappointed with what I've seen with Zverev in the big grand slam matches. I don't understand why he tries to play a game that he's not suited for. He hasn't got the fluidity of movement to construct points like we've seen in past great matches like Wimbledon 2008.
Click to expand...
Idk how one can be a fan of Fedal but also be a fan of Zverev? Doesn’t add up :unsure:
 
reaper said:
I think he should go to Andy Murray as coach, if they get on.
Click to expand...

Do you realize who Andy Murray is, and what his sociopolitical beliefs are? He would not soil his beliefs and reputation associating with some violent offender.

Third Serve said:
To the contrary I’d rather him not play tennis
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Agreed. That would be great for the sport, along with this being his fate:

l2XGGdY.jpg



Shaolin said:
No one likes Zod.
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Except those who turn a blind eye to his criminal acts.
 
reaper said:
Zverev's playing a 3 set match today. Let's see if he comes out breathing fire!
Click to expand...

He hasn't done but he's always been fairly rubbish on grass.

I spent most of the morning watching other matches on outer courts - they are more interesting to me. I have watched the last few games. I like the way Rinderknech plays. He's got something of a lefty style game, even though he's a righty, if that makes sense.
 
REKX said:
As a Federer and Nadal fan, I'm really disappointed with what I've seen with Zverev in the big grand slam matches. I don't understand why he tries to play a game that he's not suited for. He hasn't got the fluidity of movement to construct points like we've seen in past great matches like Wimbledon 2008.

When his game is on, it's very nice to watch. He hits hard, deep penetrating shots of both sides and really pushes the opponent back - backed up by a very good serve. That's his game, why or who has suggested to him to not play this way in big matches? Who is suggesting to him that it's a good idea to play high percentage side to side points when it's not his game??

I'm watching him today on grass. He is hitting such conservative shots with a lot less power, and it's often landing perfectly in the opponents hitting zone. He doesn't have the speed or footwork to rally and play the classic tennis we saw with the Big 3. That's not his game, I can't see how he will ever become a multi grand slam champion by playing this way. His opponent today, Rinnerknech, was targeting his forehand in a lot points and finding success.

Yes he will most likely come back and beat him tomorrow, but unless he changes something, he won't go as far as he could. He's seeded third and on grass it should be his game.

Maybe playing that way will use up too much energy? I don't know, he can do a lot better - he has the ability and shows it at times, but not when it matters the most.
Click to expand...
Did you see his match against a 38 year old Djokovic 1 month ago? I think anyone who had watched that match will understand why he will never win a major
 
Wurm said:
No, because his brother is several inches shorter than him and doesn't have long flappy wrists. Medvedev is a similarly bad, relatively speaking, volleyer for exactly the same reasons. IIRC around the 2018/19 period the brothers Z played a lot of doubles together, presumably to try and tune the younger Zverev's volleys and it didn't do him much good.

All the best volleyers at my local club are easily below 6' and that's in no small part because it's a lot easier to have quick feet and quick hands when you've got less limb to sort out and less body weight to redirect.
Click to expand...
Can't say I agree with this. Being disproportionately long limbed (relative to total height) is a physical gift that some of the best volleyers ever have been able to weaponise.

Being able to cloak the net with extra coverage thanks to the gift of elongated wingspan is what encouraged some of the greatest volleyers to exploit the net in the first place.
 
alright, after listening to his post-match press conference I feel for the guy...he basically admitted he's suffering from depression....says he's alone and doesn't want to get out of bed....needs professional help and maybe a break from tennis
 
marc45 said:
alright, after listening to his post-match press conference I feel for the guy...he basically admitted he's suffering from depression....says he's alone and doesn't want to get out of bed....needs professional help and maybe a break from tennis
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Yeah the 90's gen are such a sad case man. I even feel for Tsitsipas. They've all had their souls ripped out multiple times
 
dking68 said:
Sinner
Alcaraz
Djokovic
Musetti
Tiafoe
Ruud

Unlikeable:
Tsitsipas
Zverev
Rune
Fritz
De Minaur

In between:
Medvedev
Rublev
Paul
Shelton
Click to expand...

You have six people in your five-person likable list, so you should drop Djokovic from it to cut to size. Djokovic is not likable.

I'm also not sure what's "in between" about Medvedev and Rublev. I can see that Rublev's self-harming is somewhat pitiable, but it's not at all likable.
 
ruripi said:
Height cannot be a reason to play passively.
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A crippling lack of confidence in, or lack of a consistent ability to do damage with the forehand was never a concern for big JM.

Agassi, recently, commenting on a point in the Z-Djokovic RG match: 'See, this is what drives me up the wall, he sits back and waits for that ball to come to him.' That summed up Z's biggest issue quite neatly.
 
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