Why don't companies sell the actual racquets used by the players?

[MiamiWeekendWarrior]

Most of the top pro players who can afford it use custom-designed frames painted to look like the racquets people can by at stores. But they're hardly ever the same frame under the paint job. So why don't they simply market the actual frames the pros use with the pros' customizations simply being built in to the stock retail racquets?

I get the appeal of wanting to use a racquet that "looks" like Nadal's but why wouldn't the companies sell a frame that not only looks like Nadal's but is actually built the exact same way?

Would it make their prices be too expensive or are the pro's custom frames so different that the average player, even the higher level college players and many pros and other players who can't afford customized frames would have a hard time playing with them?

 

[jindra]

Because recreational players would have difficulty playing with pro spec racquets.

Also a very small percentage of rec players know that the racquets sold are not the same as what the pros use. I've had many people playing with Pure Aero tell me they had Nadal's racquet.

 

[Leen]

Also manufacturing so many different old models and variations of rackets to a mass scale or even custom ordered scale probably isn't very profitable.

 

[PaddyDutch]

To go short: it is not in the best interest of anyone (including players) to create pro-spec racquets for the masses.

The specs of the pro’s are specific to their needs, not to a broad target audience.
The average player would not play any better with a pro’s racquet, most likely worse.

 

[Deleted member 781523]

Because recreational players would have difficulty playing with pro spec racquets.

Also a very small percentage of rec players know that the racquets sold are not the same as what the pros use. I've had many people playing with Pure Aero tell me they had Nadal's racquet.

Agreed, it’s better financially long term to trick 70% of your userbase into thinking the racquet that they play their best with is also their favorite pro’s frame as opposed to being honest and selling a pro stock frame to 100% of your customers only to have them switch brands once their level of tennis drops as a result of a demanding frame.
Maybe they should start capitalizing on formerly marketable players at the end of their careers/relevancy (Del Po, Murray, Thiem, etc), by releasing at-spec versions of their frames, but it would be a mistake to do this for the players currently carrying your brand.

 

[Curtennis]

Several responses, but I think everyone missed the mark so far.
How can you possibly release a new racquet every 3-4 years if it's the same one the pro is using? Most pros go their entire careers without switching racquets more than once, maybe twice.
If Babolat introduced Rafas actual stick and spec when he first started using it, they wouldn't be able to shove another down our throat this entire time. Think about how much money they make on every new PA release. If it was the same stick for 10 years, it would be a fraction of the revenue.

 

[Weekendhacker]

To go short: it is not in the best interest of anyone (including players) to create pro-spec racquets for the masses.

The specs of the pro’s are specific to their needs, not to a broad target audience.
The average player would not play any better with a pro’s racquet, most likely worse.

Agreed. Wilson sold a lot of RF97 rackets but the vast majority of those people using them are not at the required level to reap its benefits.

 

[Say Chi Sin Lo]

Because people buy new shiny things and the marketing department figured out if you dangle something new and shiny, even if there's 0.01% difference than the old model, people will buy it.

Meanwhile, actual tennis players know constantly changing racquets is meaningless. Unlike the people on these forums. So, marketers decided to release a new paintjob and add several NASA inspired technology every 2 years or so, to get the idiots to keep buying new frames.

 

[vsbabolat]

Most of the top pro players who can afford it use custom-designed frames painted to look like the racquets people can by at stores. But they're hardly ever the same frame under the paint job. So why don't they simply market the actual frames the pros use with the pros' customizations simply being built in to the stock retail racquets?

I get the appeal of wanting to use a racquet that "looks" like Nadal's but why wouldn't the companies sell a frame that not only looks like Nadal's but is actually built the exact same way?

Would it make their prices be too expensive or are the pro's custom frames so different that the average player, even the higher level college players and many pros and other players who can't afford customized frames would have a hard time playing with them?

Who uses custom designed frames and what players can afford it? Your premise is inaccurate

 

[MiamiWeekendWarrior]

Who uses custom designed frames and what players can afford it? Your premise is inaccurate

Not sure what you mean. Top players, pick pretty much anyone in the top 50. They can either afford to pay companies to make them customized frames or get their frames for free through endorsements. Federer probably has enough free racquets to equip an entire small country.

As for who can't afford customized frames? Most recreational players, most of whom wouldn't even know who to contact at Wilson, etc, to request a custom frame. Most college players unless subsidized by their college or sponsored by a racquet company. Most junior players, most high school players, most Sunday morning champagne brunch league players, etc..etc...

What exactly is inaccurate about my premise? Or do you think I could go straight to Babolat and have them make me a custom frame for $150? And that's not taking into account how many frames they would have to make during the testing phase until we arrived at the right specs. That's not something that's available to most players who would normally buy a racquet off the shelf.

 

[recreationalplayer]

I agree with most of the previous comments and I may add Rafa, for example, is playing with a now almost decades old frame and has made few if any changes to any affixed customization. What drives the sale of racquets are new materials, weights, design and even color changes. They can't hang the same frame on the wall for a decade or more and say that's it.

 

[Grafil Injection]

They do. Some of the rackets being sold today will be the top Pro's rackets in 10-15 years time. Just a bit tricky knowing which 12 year-old is going to make it.

 

[dkmura]

Not sure what you mean. Top players, pick pretty much anyone in the top 50. They can either afford to pay companies to make them customized frames or get their frames for free through endorsements. Federer probably has enough free racquets to equip an entire small country.

As for who can't afford customized frames? Most recreational players, most of whom wouldn't even know who to contact at Wilson, etc, to request a custom frame. Most college players unless subsidized by their college or sponsored by a racquet company. Most junior players, most high school players, most Sunday morning champagne brunch league players, etc..etc...

What exactly is inaccurate about my premise? Or do you think I could go straight to Babolat and have them make me a custom frame for $150? And that's not taking into account how many frames they would have to make during the testing phase until we arrived at the right specs. That's not something that's available to most players who would normally buy a racquet off the shelf.

What's inaccurate about your initial premise is that 1) it wouldn't be profitable for racquet companies to produce pro models, 2) Most consumers wouldn't be able to play with frames the pros use, 3) Many consumers could actually injure themselves by trying to play with nodded frames that pros use, and 4) Offering racquets with special paint jobs is both easier and more economical than having to create a custom line of racquets for a small segment of consumers who might be interested.

 

[MiamiWeekendWarrior]

What's inaccurate about your initial premise is that 1) it wouldn't be profitable for racquet companies to produce pro models, 2) Most consumers wouldn't be able to play with frames the pros use, 3) Many consumers could actually injure themselves by trying to play with nodded frames that pros use, and 4) Offering racquets with special paint jobs is both easier and more economical than having to create a custom line of racquets for a small segment of consumers who might be interested.

Ok, I'm still confused.... I didn't make any claims based on a premise, I simply asked a few questions. Thanks for your answers.

 

[longtimelurker]

Many rec players still don't believe the amount of 95sq in frames are used on tour. Santa Claus will have less work every 2 or 3 years.

 

[Booger]

• Many pro frames have massive swing weight that would not be appreciated by noodle armed TT posters
• For some reason, it is still not illegal to lie to consumers and pretend pros are using retail frames
• Most importantly, pros do not change specs. Frames and fake marketing "technologies" have a 2 year product cycle.

Actually, it would be cool to force sponsored pros to play with new current retail frames every 2 years.

 

[dr325i]

Most of the top pro players who can afford it use custom-designed frames painted to look like the racquets people can by at stores. But they're hardly ever the same frame under the paint job. So why don't they simply market the actual frames the pros use with the pros' customizations simply being built in to the stock retail racquets?

I get the appeal of wanting to use a racquet that "looks" like Nadal's but why wouldn't the companies sell a frame that not only looks like Nadal's but is actually built the exact same way?

Would it make their prices be too expensive or are the pro's custom frames so different that the average player, even the higher level college players and many pros and other players who can't afford customized frames would have a hard time playing with them?

Why don’t the manufacturers sell us the nascar cars instead they paint them to look like Camry??

As answered below, most recreational players, including yourself, would not be able to handle NOVAK’s or Andy’s or most of the Pro stock spec frames

Also, every pro has his/her own spec, should the companies sell 400 different Spec’d frames?

 

[dr325i]

• Many pro frames have massive swing weight that would not be appreciated by noodle armed TT posters
• For some reason, it is still not illegal to lie to consumers and pretend pros are using retail frames
• Most importantly, pros do not change specs. Frames and fake marketing "technologies" have a 2 year product cycle.

Actually, it would be cool to force sponsored pros to play with new current retail frames every 2 years.

What are the “fake marketing technologies”??

 

[Icsa]

Agreed. Wilson sold a lot of RF97 rackets but the vast majority of those people using them are not at the required level to reap its benefits.

For a business goal/target, RF97 was a good thing for Wilson.

 

[Booger]

What are the “fake marketing technologies”??

Tennis frame manufacturing is 98% solved by now, so manufacturers invent fake technology to try to sell more frames by shortening the product cycle. They all do it, but Head is the most notorious in my opinion. Adaptive Racquets, Flexpoint™, Graphene 360+, Liquidmetal®, MicroGel, MXG, 360 Spin Grommets and YouTek.

You think there's actual graphene or lIqUiD mEtAl in a cheap retail frame?

As we know, Graphene technology has been a very successful element in Head racquets today. Graphene started getting integrated into Head racquets back in 2013. Graphene was a new technology that was super strong and lightweight. This allowed Head to shift the weight of the racquet from the shaft towards the grip and top of the racquet head. The redistribution of weight generated more kinetic energy with less effort for improved mobility and power.

......

The revolution begins with a new material never before used in modern racquet design: Liquidmetal®. HEAD revolutionizes tennis once again with Liquidmetal to change the game in every respect. Benefits are enhanced by the Total Sweetspot Construction, NoShox Dampening System and Integrated String Dampener.

 

[dr325i]

Tennis frame manufacturing is 98% solved by now, so manufacturers invent fake technology to try to sell more frames by shortening the product cycle. They all do it, but Head is the most notorious in my opinion. Adaptive Racquets, Flexpoint™, Graphene 360+, Liquidmetal®, MicroGel, MXG, 360 Spin Grommets and YouTek.

You think there's actual graphene or lIqUiD mEtAl in a cheap retail frame?

Ok, and you know that because you dissected frames and proven that the layup has no Graphene or Magnesium or spiral fibers??

 

[Booger]

Ok, and you know that because you dissected frames and proven that the layup has no Graphene or Magnesium or spiral fibers??

Yes exactly.

 

[saigonbond 2.0]

Umm, basic economics... demand, supply, manufacturing costs, labor costs, as well as duping the average joe into buying new BS technologies every year.

 

[dr325i]

Yes exactly.

You know nothing man, but it is good to think you do. The “technologies” exist. 360+ prestige Mp feels very different from the Auxetic Prestige Pro and that is because of the technology (as an example).
yes, there is Graphene in the Graphene sticks…

 

[Booger]

You know nothing man, but it is good to think you do. The “technologies” exist. 360+ prestige Mp feels very different from the Auxetic Prestige Pro and that is because of the technology (as an example).
yes, there is Graphene in the Graphene sticks…

 

[oldmanyellingatcloud]

Why don’t the manufacturers sell us the nascar cars instead they paint them to look like Camry??

As answered below, most recreational players, including yourself, would not be able to handle NOVAK’s or Andy’s or most of the Pro stock spec frames

Also, every pro has his/her own spec, should the companies sell 400 different Spec’d frames?

Next time you're in Austria remind them of the history of the M3. Started as a limited run because the model was to be used in racing and high performance applications. Became a fan favorite in its mass production and competitive car in professional racing.

 

[oldmanyellingatcloud]

EDIT: Instead of the latest technology, why not bring back the materials that people used without complaint of arm or hand issues

 

[tele]

For a business goal/target, RF97 was a good thing for Wilson.

At least the RF only has a SW in the 330s-340s. Don't Djokovic and Nadal have SW in the 360s?

I do wonder why wilson won't reissue the pro staff 90, though. It seems like a fairly limited run would sell out very quickly, even at an elevated price, with little marketing expenditure, and it does not seem like it would compete with any of the frames they currently have available. Maybe one will come out to commemorate Federer's retirement.

 

[Radicalized]

A consumer racquet must be accessible to enough of the masses to be successful. You can always lead up, but not down. Any current racquet technology may or may not help a player's game, but certainly will be used for marketing purposes. Like any other business, they'll drive sales. That doesn't mean that the engineers' attempt to modify the layup from release to release is false. As any engineering modifications would attempt to make the racquet easier to use/more comfortable/powerful/etc., the question is how much of an effect does it have? Whereas the average player is willing or wanting to look to something new, pros generally work around maintaining consistency, thus even the requirements for matching, stringing consistency, and every other factor TT members argue about.

This is coming from someone playing older racquets that I modify within reason myself to what I think works. Sometimes that changes slightly. But unlike pros, I'm not practicing and playing so much there is some monumental level of consistency involved.

 

[PaddyDutch]

it’s also interesting how, in this thread and in general, companies are blamed for pushing out new racquets and technology.

If a player does not want to spend money, then he/she should stay away from a new frame. If they’re after something new and can afford it, then go for it.

Just don’t blame “marketing” for your own choices.

 

[Jack the Hack]

Back in the day, the Babolat Pure Drive Roddick Plus was marketed as a production frame that matched Andy's specs. Being a plus, it was 0.5 inch longer and was heavier, giving it a decently high pro level swing weight. That said, I know Andy used an older version of the Pure Drive from around 1999 and just had them customized by Roman Prokes and painted to look like whatever the current model was. There's an article out there somewhere on the internet where Andy talked about his frames and he didn't seem to know much about the balance or weight. He said something to the effect that he let Roman worry about that and that he only cared that they were all exactly the same. At least he knew that they were 27.5 inches long, 4 1/2 grip, and a hybrid of poly and gut strings at anywhere from 58 to 65 lbs depending on the weather.

I played with the PDR+ for several years and they were a power beast.

 

[Booger]

it’s also interesting how, in this thread and in general, companies are blamed for pushing out new racquets and technology.

If a player does not want to spend money, then he/she should stay away from a new frame. If they’re after something new and can afford it, then go for it.

Just don’t blame “marketing” for your own choices.

I hate this attitude of shifting blame for manipulative, borderline fraudulent marketing practices onto the consumer.

All we're asking for is honesty. That should be the bare minimum, not some grandiose pipe dream.

 

[fox]

Actually many WTA players are using stock racquets, sometimes with lead at most.

 

[A_Instead]

I doubt there is a profitable market for manufacturers to sell the actual rackets that was used by professionals..
Likely the expensive of logistics and manpower to collect and prepare those returned for resale would be burdensome for the few that would returned.

 

[jmacdaununder2]

• Many pro frames have massive swing weight that would not be appreciated by noodle armed TT posters
• For some reason, it is still not illegal to lie to consumers and pretend pros are using retail frames
• Most importantly, pros do not change specs. Frames and fake marketing "technologies" have a 2 year product cycle.

Actually, it would be cool to force sponsored pros to play with new current retail frames every 2 years.

Yeah, kinda like F1!

 

[MiamiWeekendWarrior]

Why don’t the manufacturers sell us the nascar cars instead they paint them to look like Camry??

As answered below, most recreational players, including yourself, would not be able to handle NOVAK’s or Andy’s or most of the Pro stock spec frames

Also, every pro has his/her own spec, should the companies sell 400 different Spec’d frames?

Just my opinion but if a pro is going to endorse a particular model and the company's marketing makes it seem like that's really the racquet they use, it actually should be the same racquet, at least from an ethical point of view. It wouldn't really require having any more frames than they already have.

 

[MiamiWeekendWarrior]

I doubt there is a profitable market for manufacturers to sell the actual rackets that was used by professionals..
Likely the expensive of logistics and manpower to collect and prepare those returned for resale would be burdensome for the few that would returned.

That profitable market already exists. Most people who buy a racquet that has a player's name attached to it and looks exactly like the racquet the player is using think they are buying that same racquet.

 

[dr325i]

Just my opinion but if a pro is going to endorse a particular model and the company's marketing makes it seem like that's really the racquet they use, it actually should be the same racquet, at least from an ethical point of view. It wouldn't really require having any more frames than they already have.

And then they need to sell more when the initial excitement dies so two years later what??? The Pros will not change their racket every 2 years. Do you understand how consumer market works?

 

[dr325i]

That profitable market already exists. Most people who buy a racquet that has a player's name attached to it and looks exactly like the racquet the player is using think they are buying that same racquet.

That is incorrect. Most people do NOT buy the racket because of player name attached to it. What name is attached to Radical, Head’s second best selling line??? You think people buy Gravity because of Zverev or Rublev?

 

[Leen]

Just my opinion but if a pro is going to endorse a particular model and the company's marketing makes it seem like that's really the racquet they use, it actually should be the same racquet, at least from an ethical point of view. It wouldn't really require having any more frames than they already have.

Good luck telling Nadal to change rackets every 2 years lol.

And companies have now changed to phrase endorse versus I think saying they actually use the racket for that reason. It's all marketing and people need to stop fantasizing hitting like a pro just because they use the same gear.

 

[PrinceYonex]

I agree with everyone who is saying that it doesn’t make sense to sell pro player racquets— too many specifically customized specs, often too much for rec players to handle, etc.
Having said that, it would be a cool gesture if brands sponsoring a living legend released a special edition, limited release of an actual frame. Let’s say, a player with 20 or more slams. Wilson gave us signature frames for Serena and Fed. No question most rec players can’t handle those frames, and lighter and more forgiving models of those racquets are also out there.
Bab could give us a signature release for Nadal, and Head for Djoker. It’s not really about what any of us can actually play with, more like honoring the legend.

 

[MiamiWeekendWarrior]

And then they need to sell more when the initial excitement dies so two years later what??? The Pros will not change their racket every 2 years. Do you understand how consumer market works?

The consumer racquet market is not a static market. There are always new players moving in and out of the sport.

 

[MiamiWeekendWarrior]

That is incorrect. Most people do NOT buy the racket because of player name attached to it. What name is attached to Radical, Head’s second best selling line??? You think people buy Gravity because of Zverev or Rublev?

I never said that. Please read my post again. Never mind...I'll explain it. I thought it was very clear but I guess not.

Here is what I said " Most people who buy a racquet that has a player's name attached to it ...."

I did not say most people buy a racquet that has a player's name attached to it. I said that out of the people who select a racquet based on the fact that it has a player's name attached to it and is marketed in a way that leads people to believe that this is the same racquet the pro player uses, most of those people will be under the impression that they just bought the same racquet the player uses. They do not know they are buying a random racquet, completely unrelated to the pro player's racquet, but simply painted to look the same.

 

[am1899]

I said that out of the people who select a racquet based on the fact that it has a player's name attached to it

In the grand scheme of things, that’s a relatively small subset of racquet consumers.

and is marketed in a way that leads people to believe that this is the same racquet the pro player uses

Which is by design.

most of those people will be under the impression that they just bought the same racquet the player uses.They do not know they are buying a random racquet, completely unrelated to the pro player's racquet, but simply painted to look the same.

If said consumers paid attention to the fine print from mfg websites and literature, they would know. Regardless, for me you’re overselling how many of them would actually care.

 

[Nostradamus]

Most of the top pro players who can afford it use custom-designed frames painted to look like the racquets people can by at stores. But they're hardly ever the same frame under the paint job. So why don't they simply market the actual frames the pros use with the pros' customizations simply being built in to the stock retail racquets?

I get the appeal of wanting to use a racquet that "looks" like Nadal's but why wouldn't the companies sell a frame that not only looks like Nadal's but is actually built the exact same way?

Would it make their prices be too expensive or are the pro's custom frames so different that the average player, even the higher level college players and many pros and other players who can't afford customized frames would have a hard time playing with them?

LOL...... If the answer isn't obvious to you,,,, not sure what to say.... Racket companies make Money by selling rackets that fit amateur players specs, Not pro specs which is much much heavier with super high SW. Money is the only thing racket companies care about. Not you or people that want the exact same spec rackets as pros use.

 

[sportsfan1]

Just as a counterpoint - there are people who pay a lot of money to get pros used racquets off auction sites. There are others who'd like to have their pros racquet regardless of the level they play at. In the big picture even with customizations, collecting racquets is still within reach for many and isn't as expensive as other hobbies, say cars. Let's hypothetically say nadals actual racquet cost $500. Given the fanaticism, some fans would still buy that.

The racquet companies could have these nadal/Djokovic etc racquets like wilson did with Fed, and still have the current pro endorsed racquets.

 

[glenWs]

Most of the top pro players who can afford it use custom-designed frames painted to look like the racquets people can by at stores. But they're hardly ever the same frame under the paint job. So why don't they simply market the actual frames the pros use with the pros' customizations simply being built in to the stock retail racquets?

I get the appeal of wanting to use a racquet that "looks" like Nadal's but why wouldn't the companies sell a frame that not only looks like Nadal's but is actually built the exact same way?

Would it make their prices be too expensive or are the pro's custom frames so different that the average player, even the higher level college players and many pros and other players who can't afford customized frames would have a hard time playing with them?

Who is going to swing pro-spec'd rackets? I don't want to buy a racket weighted and balanced for Rafa, or any other pro. Why do I want that? How does that help anyone's game? Tennis rackets should be customized to the person using it, not the person they dream of playing like. It would be stupid for manufacturers to sell them, even through they would sell very few. Not worth it at all.

 

[dr325i]

The consumer racquet market is not a static market. There are always new players moving in and out of the sport.

Just like every other consumer market. You obviously don’t understand the basics…

 

[dr325i]

I never said that. Please read my post again. Never mind...I'll explain it. I thought it was very clear but I guess not.

Here is what I said " Most people who buy a racquet that has a player's name attached to it ...."

I did not say most people buy a racquet that has a player's name attached to it. I said that out of the people who select a racquet based on the fact that it has a player's name attached to it and is marketed in a way that leads people to believe that this is the same racquet the pro player uses, most of those people will be under the impression that they just bought the same racquet the player uses. They do not know they are buying a random racquet, completely unrelated to the pro player's racquet, but simply painted to look the same.

Again, you don’t understand the basics of consumer market. The % of all racket customers that purchase racket because Novak swings (the PJ) it is small to influence overall sales and profits. Just like us here are a small chunk of what is out there and if we are whining about the PT2.0 16x19 that absolutely does not mean that ahead should invest and produce it (and they won’t…)

 

[MiamiWeekendWarrior]

Who is going to swing pro-spec'd rackets? I don't want to buy a racket weighted and balanced for Rafa, or any other pro. Why do I want that? How does that help anyone's game? Tennis rackets should be customized to the person using it, not the person they dream of playing like. It would be stupid for manufacturers to sell them, even through they would sell very few. Not worth it at all.

I'm sure a lot of people would buy racquets with the identical specs of Nadal's, Fed's, etc.. racquets. Just because you wouldn't want one doesn't mean no one else will either.