Return_Ace
Hall of Fame
A lot vs. the number of people that post on this message board, sure.
A lot vs. the total number of people buying tennis rackets, minuscule.
Why don't companies sell the actual racquets used by the players?
- Thread starter MiamiWeekendWarrior
- Start date
A lot vs. the number of people that post on this message board, sure.
A lot vs. the total number of people buying tennis rackets, minuscule.
Rabbit
G.O.A.T.
WIlson did market a racket built to Pete Sampras' specs. It was the KPS88. Have you seen the new model? No? There's a reason for that. For every 1 KPS88 Wilson sold, they sold 1000 Blades. There's a reason the ProStaff 85 is a special order for TW. For every 1 of those that are sold, 1000 Clash frames are sold.
Spalding marketed a line of frames that were pro spec. They were heavy, had smallish heads (95 or less) and were flexible. Have you seen the new Spalding line? Neither has anyone else.....
Bottom line is: if building rackets weighted like the pros and with layups like the pros was profitable, Wilson would beat Babolat to market. But, as soon as they put something like that out there, they don't sell. I am a bit of a racket collector. I bought a Puma Boris Becker Super a couple of years ago. I restrung it and took it out for a hit. My strokes have changed so much from that time to now as to render that frame largely unplayable. Today's rackets are imminently more playable for the Average Joe.
Now if you are a superior player, you can still use the Wilson ProStaff RF Auto. But before you go out there and buy one, do yourself a favor and watch this video:
Pay attention to around 19 minutes in.
Spalding marketed a line of frames that were pro spec. They were heavy, had smallish heads (95 or less) and were flexible. Have you seen the new Spalding line? Neither has anyone else.....
Bottom line is: if building rackets weighted like the pros and with layups like the pros was profitable, Wilson would beat Babolat to market. But, as soon as they put something like that out there, they don't sell. I am a bit of a racket collector. I bought a Puma Boris Becker Super a couple of years ago. I restrung it and took it out for a hit. My strokes have changed so much from that time to now as to render that frame largely unplayable. Today's rackets are imminently more playable for the Average Joe.
Now if you are a superior player, you can still use the Wilson ProStaff RF Auto. But before you go out there and buy one, do yourself a favor and watch this video:
Pay attention to around 19 minutes in.
Rosstour
G.O.A.T.
The amount of rec hackers swinging RF97A suggests that Head and Babylot are leaving money on the table.
am1899
Legend
Not enough to make it worth their while, which is why in most cases they’re not doing so. Racquet mfg’s are in business to make money. If something isn’t going to make money, its unlikely to be produced. Simple supply and demand. You being so sure is not a compelling reason for racquet mfg’s to change course.
Username checks
You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but that doesn't mean it's right. Maybe you can try writing the big racquet companies and explain the facts behind your marketing beliefs.
Booger
Hall of Fame
I was actually thinking about that. One of the best parts of F1 is that the cars are slightly different every year and the drivers have to suck it up and adapt.
This year they are bouncing all over the track lol.
Clay lover
Legend
I think @Curtennis is right on the mark. Most pros only use one or two racquets during their entire career. By only selling the racquets used by pro players you are encouraging customers to do the same - swing the same racquet for the rest of their lives much like their idol - not very good for business.
Leaving customisations aside, racquet companies may have sold the pros' racquets at one point when the pro happened to choose that line, but subsequent lines will continue to be marketed as the pros' when actually he never switched racquets. So it's not they're deliberately making the racquets unavailable - they may have been available at some point - it's just that after making them available they'll continue to make imposters and market them as the pros' racquets.
I see it as less a matter of accomodating the players - if they made the most money selling pro specs racquets they would have done so.
Leaving customisations aside, racquet companies may have sold the pros' racquets at one point when the pro happened to choose that line, but subsequent lines will continue to be marketed as the pros' when actually he never switched racquets. So it's not they're deliberately making the racquets unavailable - they may have been available at some point - it's just that after making them available they'll continue to make imposters and market them as the pros' racquets.
I see it as less a matter of accomodating the players - if they made the most money selling pro specs racquets they would have done so.
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dr325i
G.O.A.T.
No it does not.
first, if they made a frying pan with RF logo on it, recreational players would be buying it. Not so much the one with the ND or the Bull Sign. Federer has been unofficially retired for a while now and is still and will be for a loooooong time the highest paid tennis player.
Also, W sells many many more Blades and Clashes than the RF97A.
Speed is Heads best selling line right now.
Keizer
Hall of Fame
I’m actually curious about this phenomenon (people buying sticks that their favorite pros use). With racket prices trending up, I’d imagine regular people (not racketholics like those on here) carefully consider the purchase of $250 sticks and pick the ones suited to their game. I imagine the Federer and Nadal branding probably help sell the cheaper, Walmart lines from these manufacturers rather than the top-line models….
Crazy Finn
Hall of Fame
Well, you can get the 85 that Sampras, Edberg, and Federer used for a number of his early years.
Wilson Pro Staff 6.0 85 Racquet | Tennis Warehouse
www.tennis-warehouse.com
Icsa
Semi-Pro
It is a genius marketing ploy - make racquets that look identical to a top player's but with specs suitable for the regular folk. The majority will never think of or question the specs. And to make it even better, keep changing the paint every year or so and the folk will rush to buy the "new and updated". Repeat.
RF97A is a "mistake" that will not last. The regular folk doesn't know that even RF97A is customized before it reaches Roger's hands: lead at 12, handle replaced etc.
RF97A is a "mistake" that will not last. The regular folk doesn't know that even RF97A is customized before it reaches Roger's hands: lead at 12, handle replaced etc.
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TennisLogic
Semi-Pro
The truth is the differences between the pure aero sold to the retail public and Nadal’s racquet are so minor and imperceptible to the average weekend warrior.
Nadal, like other pros, rarely changes racquets because he wants to control the number of variables that impact his game. Otherwise, I’m confident that Nadal could play with any of the pure aero versions as long as his desired specs are reflected.
You have no idea of what you're talking about. The difference in specs are huge and evident to anyone.
TennisLogic
Semi-Pro
To racquet nerds those differences are likely major. To most other players, they’re insignificant.
Crazy Finn
Hall of Fame
Are they? The original APD and the current Pure Aero are somewhat different - different dampening and tech, different stiffness, but it's not that different unless you're really a connoisseur. To most, they won't know.
People play on my APD GT and my 2019 Pure Aero. They usually can't tell the difference. I can, but it's not a lot.
Rafa's actual swingweight is obviously too much for most people.
dr325i
G.O.A.T.
There is a significant difference between Nadals stick and current PA sold in the stores
Different stiffness and 25+ points of SW difference would be felt by everyone.
TennisLogic
Semi-Pro
Other than the customization done by Rafa, which I understand is the addition of weight to change swing weight, twist weight, balance, static weight etc, there’s not that much of a difference, for the average player, between a 20XX pure aero and the original aero pro.
Actually, there’s not much difference between this line and the pure drive. We’re talking about minutia here.
amateurs care about this stuff more than advanced level players.
if the pure aero ceased to exist, you could just put a customized pure drive in Nadal’s hands and he’ll do just fine. He won’t complain, but a 4.0 will keep switching racquets and tensions mid play because they think it makes a huge difference…. It’s all in their minds.
IMO
Actually, there’s not much difference between this line and the pure drive. We’re talking about minutia here.
amateurs care about this stuff more than advanced level players.
if the pure aero ceased to exist, you could just put a customized pure drive in Nadal’s hands and he’ll do just fine. He won’t complain, but a 4.0 will keep switching racquets and tensions mid play because they think it makes a huge difference…. It’s all in their minds.
IMO
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d-quik
Hall of Fame
I am certain the 12 year old version of Federer, Djokovic, and Nadal will make it. Just watch
vsbabolat
G.O.A.T.
Welcome back!
WacTennis2017
Semi-Pro
to add to your thought:
How well did the Wilson Steam 100 16x20 sell 8-10 years ago? My guess is not great because Wilson stopped mainstream production. Now you see it used many WTA players (Badosa, Raducanu, and more).
professional players do not want to switch racquets…..many play with the racket/model that was available during that time of their career.
am1899
Legend
Lol.
Subjective.
Advanced level players care plenty. (What exactly they care about is likely different than the avg amateur).
Ok.
am1899
Legend
Great advice. I acquired a couple this summer. They are amazing.
Babolat sold and would still sell a tonne of APD? ND's stick gets the SW with lead- so why not sell that, unleaded?
I think they would if they could- and that the real reason for the technologies is because of fluctuating supplies and cost of different types of graphite making different layups more profitable that require different tech to work and will feel a bit different. Cheaper to make than trying to keep it as consistent as Budweiser beer like they did with (for example) the psc6.1 over an extended period with different factories and production changing countries. Just say, "ah this batch is a bit more like this let's market that."
Speculation: racquets got a bit nicer in more recent years because of massive purchases of graphite for energy storage and other green tech, (where different properties are favoured from aerospace that liked more and more stiff and more and more light) lowered the price of graphite with good properties for racquets.
BlueB
Legend
Yeah right, how much at $100 / gram?
Unless a bit of graphene dust added to the resin counts...
dr325i
G.O.A.T.
You obviously have no idea what you’re talking about so let me help you here by asking a question: Have you ever used the ND Pt346.1 or the 113.B? I assume not. Those layups and weight distribution are designed around the pros and made to perform better at higher static weight and SW, something that none of us would be able to handle for a long time. I have multiple Novaks frames and every time I strung them and modify them to my spec, they feel just blah and clumsy. When I use them at heavier spec, they feel great…but only for 15 minutes when I start falling behind.
So, the option would be to introduce the TK346 mold with a different, mass friendly, layup. Then…it is not what you’re asking for again…
Head is sourcing the graphite from the same source they did last 10+ years. Not much has changed. What has changed really is the layup
dr325i
G.O.A.T.
Of course, about 2-3g but yes, there is Graphene in there
,
If you're even remotely familiar with what graphene is, you'll realize that it's very unlikely that racquets have graphene and even if they did, it wouldn't be doing anything at all.
dr325i
G.O.A.T.
I am very familiar with Graphene and yes, they do have it. What it does in it…I don’t know
am1899
Legend
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10853-015-9705-6
TLDR? There is indeed Graphene in there.
Thanks. There is Graphene but not clear if it does anything.
BlueB
Legend
Considering the price, more likely like 2-3 mg, just to be able to say they have it.
dr325i
G.O.A.T.
“Pricing today for graphene powder ranges between US$50-$200/kg, depending on quality and volume of purchase”
assume $200/kg, 3g is negligible cost adder to the racket.
am1899
Legend
“Resin-rich regions have been found in the area where the head of the racquet is joined to the handle. It appears that this area, which is a point of potential of weakness in the racquet, has been reinforced with graphene in form of graphite nanoplatelets.”
'It was not possible, however, to evaluate the effect of the addition of the graphite nanoplatelets to the resin-rich region in the absence of equivalent samples without graphite nanoplatelets added.'
Let me know if you'd like me to out that in bold. Underline also available upon request.
am1899
Legend
I forget, who was it that said they weren’t really putting graphene in racquets?
Let me go back and put my post on bold to see if you get it.
am1899
Legend
Please underline and italicize it as well. Want to make sure I don’t miss it.
From the paper it certainly looks like they got their samples from Head. Do you think Head would send them a graphene racquet without graphene?
am1899
Legend
That’s it, it’s a conspiracy! Head sent these guys a racquet for their study that they doctored up with Graphene!
Or some have it and some don't. Or some markets get it and others don't. But I'll be sure to break out my Raman spectrometer next time I buy a Head.
am1899
Legend
LOL
drakulie
Talk Tennis Guru
I see things haven’t changed much around here. Anyway, Hope you’re doing well.
jmacdaununder2
Legend
'It is also found that graphene-based nanoparticles are used to reinforce resin-rich regions in the shaft of the racquet at the discontinuity in the fibre tows, where the handle is joined to the racquet head.'
A cheap form of Graphene used to bandaid the gaps in the resin between the tows - move along folks, nothing to see here...
A cheap form of Graphene used to bandaid the gaps in the resin between the tows - move along folks, nothing to see here...
jmacdaununder2
Legend
Actually things have been pretty quiet since the 'demise' of Tennis Hands & Rafa Boy; occasionally the good dr. has to come down hard on those who dare to question the Headmaster...
jmacdaununder2
Legend
Probably should mention that Prince is experiencing something of a dead cat bounce with their ATS Tours.
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