Why fed serves well against everyone but Djoker.

[djokovic2008]

I wish people on here especially in the match forums would stop asking why fed is serving badly against djoker when they play finals. It was the same at Wimbledon when he served great vs murray but not against djoker. The pressure fed feels against djoker when serving is immense not too much the quality of return of djokovic. It's ok serving well vs wawrinka but 1st serves won and first serves in will ALWAYS be low vs the greatest returner of all time!

 

[Tennisanity]

Maybe true about the serve, but not the BH. So many weak UEs today.

 

[BeatlesFan]

Murray is arguably a better returner than Djoker (both are fantastic). Roger usually plays very well against Murray and beats him in most of their big matches.

Federer chokes against Djoker, he doesn't choke against Murray and never has. That is the difference and why Rogers usually serves like crap against Nole post-2010.

And many would argue Agassi and Connors had greater ROS's than Djoker or Muzz.

 

[uscwang]

I wish people on here especially in the match forums would stop asking why fed is serving badly against djoker when they play finals. It was the same at Wimbledon when he served great vs murray but not against djoker. The pressure fed feels against djoker when serving is immense not too much the quality of return of djokovic. It's ok serving well vs wawrinka but 1st serves won and first serves in will ALWAYS be low vs the greatest returner of all time!

Nobody, who plays more than 10 matches with Novak, serves well against him anymore.
Novak is a great returner and good learner.

 

[Inanimate_object]

Murray is arguably a better returner than Djoker (both are fantastic). Roger usually plays very well against Murray and beats him in most of their big matches.

Federer chokes against Djoker, he doesn't choke against Murray and never has. That is the difference and why Rogers usually serves like crap against Nole post-2010.

And many would argue Agassi and Connors had greater ROS's than Djoker or Muzz.

There is no way Murray is a better returner than Djokovic. Connors? Maybe.

 

[djokovic2008]

Murray is arguably a better returner than Djoker (both are fantastic). Roger usually plays very well against Murray and beats him in most of their big matches.

Federer chokes against Djoker, he doesn't choke against Murray and never has. That is the difference and why Rogers usually serves like crap against Nole post-2010.

And many would argue Agassi and Connors had greater ROS's than Djoker or Muzz.

I'm sorry Murray is a fantastic returner but Novak is now a different level on the return.

 

[dr325i]

Roger does not choke. Djokovic makes him look like he chokes (and vice versa)

 

[mattosgrant]

Novak has probably gotten in his head somewhat by now. The same way he has gotten in Nadal's since 2011, and Nadal has gotten in Federer's. It happens when you have a streak of losses to someone. Federer still wins his share of matches vs Djokovic, but no longer when it really matters (slam finals or WTF finals) and both know that going in. Had Federer won say the 5 setter at Wimbledon 2014 things could be quite different.

Novak also is the best returner in tennis. Yes better than even Murray, there isnt really much doubt. Murray is a strong 2nd best.

 

[Jaitock1991]

I agree. Djoker puts enormous pressure on Fed. He knows that he has to serve perfect to win. Especially on a surface like this.

People argue that Murray is arguably as good a returner as Djoker, and that I also agree with. However, the difference is that Djokovic>>>>Murray from the baseline. Federer knows that serving perfect against Andy is not as crucial because he can still beat Andy from the baseline. Not the case against Djoker.

 

[Steve0904]

Fed serves well against Djokovic in general so I don't think this idea holds much water. His problem is that he can't break serve to save his life anymore which is a consequence of his declined ground game.

 

[djokovic2008]

Fed serves well against Djokovic in general so I don't think this idea holds much water. His problem is that he can't break serve to save his life anymore which is a consequence of his declined ground game.

Erm... you need to go by the serve stats before making that statement then you realise what's happening.

 

[Steve0904]

Erm... you need to go by the serve stats before making that statement then you realise what's happening.

He's had great serving performances against Novak before though. RG 2011, Wimbledon 2012, Cincy 12, Dubai 14-15 Wimbledon '14. Cincy 15. It's no coincidence he won all but one of those. The stats might show a slight drop, but that's to be expected exactly because he IS playing Novak. It doesn't mean he doesn't serve well against Novak generally. That's where you're going wrong here.

 

[djokovic2008]

You

He's had great serving performances against Novak before though. RG 2011, Wimbledon 2012, Cincy 12, Dubai 14-15 Wimbledon '14. Cincy 15. It's no coincidence he won all but one of those. The stats might show a slight drop, but that's to be expected exactly because he IS playing Novak. It doesn't mean he doesn't serve well against Novak generally. That's where you're going wrong here.

You don't go from serving like a god vs murray at Wimbledon one day then serving nearly 20% worse two days later. And it was the same today vs djoker after serving well vs wawrinka yesterday.

 

[Steve0904]

You


You don't go from serving like a god vs murray at Wimbledon one day then serving nearly 20% worse two days later. And it was the same today vs djoker after serving well vs wawrinka yesterday.

You can if your serve is off on that day. Plus, I think Djokovic is in Federer's head these days and causes him to get nervous in finals. Even last year, Federer played some good/great SF's only to play a crappy final. Serve is generally a day form shot. Some days it's on and some days it's not. Not denying Djokovic returned great that day and perhaps affected the Federer serve, (I said as much when other Federer fans were griping about it on that day) but again how do you explain the matches I pointed out? Clearly Federer served very well in those matches. It's not the serve that's letting Federer down in general. Again, it wasn't great today, but there have been plenty of matches against Djokovic where it was awesome.

 

[CYGS]

Djokovic's aura scares the **** out of Fed, maybe.

 

[Chanwan]

Nobody, who plays more than 10 matches with Novak, serves well against him anymore.
Novak is a great returner and good learner.

iirc, neither Muzz nor Djoko saw a BP vs Fed this year at Cincinatti. Court speed matters too

 

[Steve0904]

iirc, neither Muzz nor Djoko saw a BP vs Fed this year at Cincinatti. Court speed matters too

Court speed is huge, as you can see by the speed of the courts on which Federer has won the last few years. Even at RG 2011 they used lighter balls IIRC.

 

[Chanwan]

Fed serves well against Djokovic in general so I don't think this idea holds much water. His problem is that he can't break serve to save his life anymore which is a consequence of his declined ground game.

I think it varies very much how well he serves vs. Djoko.
OP is def. on to something in the sense that when Fed's serve is somewhat off, it often becomes more off vs. Djoko because of his great return.
But that said, there's been plenty of great serving performances from Fed in this match-up, including in recent years as you mentioned.

And if OP doesn't understand that a serve can be super great one day (vs. Murray) and so and so two days later vs. Djoko without it primarily being caused by Djoko, then I don't know if he plays tennis or has watched competitive tennis for long. Serving performances vary greatly from match to match, sometimes partly due to the opponent, sometimes not at all.

on the return - Fed's been returning great all weak AND breaking serve on 65 % of his BP's. And then this rubbish winning 16 % on Djoko's 2nd serve.
SMH.

Court speed is huge, as you can see by the speed of the courts on which Federer has won the last few years. Even at RG 2011 they used lighter balls IIRC.

indeed they did, his last great year at the FO.