BlueB
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We all are... but for wrong reasons...I'm not him but I'm his fan![]()
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We all are... but for wrong reasons...I'm not him but I'm his fan![]()
Looks like @oserver might be onto something. Unfortunately Thiem only good enough to do 180 serves...
time 2:12
lol. The way you word that is telling. Usually one would say "I am A fan" but here you say "his fan" indicating he only has ONE fan....I'm not him but I'm his fan![]()
Lol. Its a break through!! LMAO. And the serve like the ones in your vid was OUT.This is actually a break through at the elite level. Just ask yourself this: why Thiem tried this rotational serve? He must did it for some reasons!? Bored with the conventional way of serving? Needed to have more rotation to increase the pace and spin?
Now, think about this - what is the next step?
A. Go back to his old ways since his current rotational serve looked as if he drunk a little too much the night before!?
B. Stay the current way in practice to enjoy/feel the added power, and just make a wish that it can be used in the match
C. Explore some more to make it practical in a match situation.
The option C will be very interesting indeed. Some elite players will do it, no matter he will do it or not. I bet some elite players are doing it now. Just wait and see.
How to make good balance and get ready on time? Simple - open stance. The proof has been there since the beginning of the open stance forehand. My rotational serves and 360 degree serves were proof too in a small scale, since I'm just 4.0 player/coach. The reason is very straight forward - the closed stance is only good for maximizing linear momentum generation. One can do some rotational move but there is a limit. Exceed that limit then you loose the balance, or it takes too much time to get back to ready position. We saw this in the above video. That's why we need open stance or semi-open stance to increase the speed and the scale of rotation. The higher speed of rotation and the larger scale of rotation will solve the problems we saw here, doesn't matter one completes the 360 degree turn or not. Blow is a video I made in Aug 13, 2018
Open Forehand Tennis Serve Styles
Older video at beginning of 2017
What are you trying to imply? You think I'm oserver? lollol. The way you word that is telling. Usually one would say "I am A fan" but here you say "his fan" indicating he only has ONE fan....
No. I dont. I think you know he only has one fan.What are you trying to imply? You think I'm oserver? lol
Did you missed the two video links I provided?Lol. Its a break through!! LMAO. And the serve like the ones in your vid was OUT.
Anyhow if your 7c 720 open open omaha hut hut serve is the future, why are you not posting a vid in this thread?
https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/jollys-kick-serve-challenge.632110/
Guessing you can't get any topspin to hit that serve but you are welcome to try to prove me wrong and show us all how great your serve is.
Please read the linked thread it has specific instructions to hit this serve. Those vids do not satisfy the challenge. Not even close.Did you missed the two video links I provided?
Please read the linked thread it has specific instructions to hit this serve. Those vids do not satisfy the challenge. Not even close.
1st off thats a great dodge. Look forward to your video because i dont think you can actually hit the serve described which is feet 1’ from the center mark and the ball has to cross the baseline 2’ outside the doubles lineWow, I thought you were going to go against open stance serve forever!? Your Nov 27, 2018 video truly surprised me. What's the reason you chanced your heart to for go a fully opened stance to serve?
Now, maybe you are ready to try the rotational serve, perhaps just halfway kind, not 360 degree yet
1st off thats a great dodge. Look forward to your video because i dont think you can actually hit the serve described which is feet 1’ from the center mark and the ball has to cross the baseline 2’ outside the doubles line
Here is the vid i submitted. Lets see yours
2. You always get it wrong thinking that somehow the right foot in front of the left is an open stance
3. That vid is years old. I dont serve like that now and keep the right foot behind the left. So no embracing the open stance at all.
1. That serve is not openstance. And it was old anyhow. As I said I dont serve like that anymore. Its an old vidAre you serious? First, I was not discussion the Jolly Kick serve. I was commenting on your change of heart and the display of your open stance serve in the your Nov 27, 2018 video.
2. You are wrong to think open stance is "the right foot in front of the left". Did I even said that, or anyone who has some tennis knowledge said that. I had a article well back in April 2014 that documented what I think the open stance serves are -
Open Stance Tennis Serve Variations
3. "That vid is years old", really? It had "Jolly Challenge kick serve " on the screen and it was dated Nov 27, 2018. DO you need to to see a Dr. for memory problem?!
1. That serve is not openstance. And it was old anyhow. As I said I dont serve like that anymore. Its an old vid
2.none of your analysis makes any sense. What exactly in that vid of mine is open??
3. There is a difference when a vid is shot and when its uploaded. That vid was shot years ago but was edited and uploaded recently for the challenge. The original footage is nearly 2 years old.
As for memory I still remember that you havent made a vid for Jollys challenge. I think its because your serve technique doesnt allow you to hit that serve given the conditions Jolly set: 1’ from the center has and passing the baseline 2’ outside the doubles alley.
Its the perfect chance for you to showcase your revolutionary serve but no vid. Why??
Someone should really put some time into studying people like oserver, gregory diamond etc. It’s absolutely fascinating how the most useless and least significant inviduals sometimes make the biggest waves...
Someone should really put some time into studying people like oserver, gregory diamond etc. It’s absolutely fascinating how the most useless and least significant inviduals sometimes make the biggest waves...
this is some slippery slope reasoning and explains how your serve got WETS."The original footage is nearly 2 years old", if that was true, can you show the original youTube footage with the 2 years ago loading time?
Even you can backtrack and let everyone believe that video was two years back, then why you post it for the challenge as the first video. You liked it, didn't you. You were eager the show it off, forgetting you need to hide it so not to contradicting yourself then and now, right?
Remember, even two years ago, you were one of the most vocal posters who try to trash my open stance serve ideas and practices. This shows that you were/are not consistent between your mouth and your heart, very sad indeed
Don't change the subject. I'll do or not do the Jolly Kick serve challenge video if I like to do, not respond to someone's intimidation like yours for changing the subject.
one can't see what isnt there. Once again you were wrong....Why didn't you see the backtrack of one poster's videos and explanations to make the story whole? Is that something that "Someone should really put some time into studying people like" that poster?
this is some slippery slope reasoning and explains how your serve got WETS.
If you read that Kick Serve Challenge thread you will see that I was posting vids that were already made. Why shoot a new one if off the shelf content will suffice. The 1st vid was denied because I was too far from the hash mark and there was no target at the baseline. The one in question I took from 2 years ago and that was denied too because I was too far away from the center mark. So yes I was eager to win the contest using old vid. It didnt happen so I shot a new vid.
Dude you crack me up nothing in that vid or serve is open. There is no contradiciton. And for the record even if you are right and in your bizarro world that was some how open, its very consistent because I don;t serve like that now. The last thing I would ever want to do is serve like your vids.
And how dare you accuse me of being deceptive. Here is the original vid from almost 2 years ago. That serve is at 4:24:
I am totally consistent. Your serve concepts are wrong and don't work. That has remained consistent. My mouth has said that and my heart especially feels that.
And you are dodging the challenge. The only reason you don't produce a vid is because your technique wont allow you to hit that serve. If you could you would. It would go along way to proving your concept....if you can hit that serve. No one thinks you can. So you have to take up the challenge or the whole world will know how wrong you have been...
So many posters are 360 serve funs and and won't tolerate anything other than 3C serves.
If someone can do 360 serves with a closed stance, that will be real fun to watch. Anyone? I like to make some laughters too.
Looks like @oserver might be onto something. Unfortunately Thiem only good enough to do 180 serves...
time 2:12
Now, think about this - what is the next step?
A. Go back to his old ways since his current rotational serve looked as if he drunk a little too much the night before!?
B. Stay the current way in practice to enjoy/feel the added power, and just make a wish that it can be used in the match
C. Explore some more to make it practical in a match situation.
Why you practiced them only 30 times? I thought more would be required to perfect something new? Maybe do about 3000 at least?This is the reason I named my 3O serves the Forehand Serve, l
Apparently you don't know what the butterfly effect theory is, do you?! The start doesn't need to be significant, nor the starter. A chaos had been here already, it just need to be intensified. And Thiem's turning around serve practices just added some dry wood onto the insignificant fire...
"In chaos theory, the butterfly effect is the sensitive dependence on initial conditions in which a small change in one state of a deterministic nonlinear system can result in large differences in a later state.[1] "
Butterfly effect theory
“The butterfly effect refers to the exponential growth of any small perturbation. However, this exponential growth continues only so long as the disturbance remains very small compared to the size of the attractor. It then folds back onto the attractor. Unfortunately, most people miss this latter part and think that the small perturbation continues to grow until it is huge and has some large effect. The point of the effect is that it prevents us from making very detailed predictions at very small scales, but it does not have a significant effect at larger scales.”
Do you have any videos of this "added power" you talk about Gary? Have you thought about contacting Gunter Bresnik?
Why you practiced them only 30 times? I thought more would be required to perfect something new? Maybe do about 3000 at least?
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You tried to look smart by throwing some theory into the mix, but unfortunately you chose one that’s overused by people like you who don’t even understand what it means and try to apply it where it doesn’t even belong. Don’t worry, it’s one of the most common misconceptions, or rather theories wrongly used in discussion in other fields. Prof Richard Eykholt once gave some pretty good summary on this, had to dig it up but I hope it’s an accurate quote:
Since you chose an invalid argument you don’t even understand, I don’t feel obligated to try to debunk what you possibly had on your mind until you make another attempt.
My head hurts. All this theory and posting and oserver still can't serve years later.
If you had watched my videos three four years ago then you can conclude yourself in terms of "added power".
Now I'm working on more added spin using 3O (Open stance, Open grip, Open Wrist) serve. Here is the video. Notice that some of the topspin serves were one bouncers to the curtain; matching some of my flat serves three four years ago, and some serves can bounce 5 feet at the baseline.
Where do you get this stuff. Did you not read my replies or maybe you couldnt understand them? You saw, that vid was taken from nearly two year old footage and you are still trying to make up some backtrack story. You were the one who was wrong saying it was a recent vid and now you are still saying I somehow back tracked and there was a contradiction. Ha. You are a crack up Gary. Cant believe you cant understand this easy stuff. Its pretty easy to see I grabbed the old video and edited just that serve, slowed it down and submitted it for the challenge.Even you can backtrack and let everyone believe that video was two years back, then why you post it for the challenge as the first video. You liked it, didn't you. You were eager the show it off, forgetting you need to hide it so not to contradicting yourself then and now, right?
You tried to sidestep to answer my question directly.
1. If you didn't like your old video with the open stance serve, why you posted it. Whether it was accepted for the challenge or not is irrelevant.
2. You liked your old open stance serve but didn't realized that it was an open stance serve until I spotted it, true?
3. You were practicing open stance serve two years ago as you said, why you openly trash the open stance serve form that time openly and vigorously even many of nay sayers left the forum and never post anything again? Where were your mouth and heart two years ago?
That's the slowest "4.0" serve I have ever seen. A little bizarre to be giving serving tips to Dominic Thiem don't you think?![]()
Where do you get this stuff. Did you not read my replies or maybe you couldnt understand them? You saw, that vid was taken from nearly two year old footage and you are still trying to make up some backtrack story. You were the one who was wrong saying it was a recent vid and now you are still saying I somehow back tracked and there was a contradiction. Ha. You are a crack up Gary. Cant believe you cant understand this easy stuff. Its pretty easy to see I grabbed the old video and edited just that serve, slowed it down and submitted it for the challenge.
1. Where are you getting like or didnt like that vid? I simply saw a challenge post and thought I had an existing video that would satisfy the challenge and I could get an easy prize. So its very relevant whether it was accepted or not. Now maybe you are confusing the video with the serve. That serve in that video, no I did not like it and have spent years changing it. ITs better now than it has been in 20 years and is evolving all the time. Especially because I am doing the complete opposite of what you are saying.
2. Its not an open stance serve. Nothing about it is open stance. And no I have hours of vids changing that serve. Went from that to platform and then back to pinpoint but the right foot is behind the left instead of in front now.
3. No I wasnt because thats not open stance. Anyhow I changed it because it was a sucky serve...
Speaking of which where is your video for the Jolly Kick serve challange? You play indoors so thats not an excuse. If you can't hit that serve because you technique can't hit it just say so. We all know it anyhow. Given all the vids you post all the time you would think you would have already posted one. But you havent so there is only one conclusion....you can't do it.
So let me guess. More dodge posts coming my way because the 3O serve is a 3.0 serve and can't produce the RHS or topspin needed to hit the Jolly Challenge serve....
My Estimated Dynamic Rating by TennisRecord site is 3.8647 on 11/19/2018. It is in the high range of a computer rated 4.0 -
http://www.tennisrecord.com/adult/profile.aspx?playername=Gary Lou
You just don't know how to judge![]()
There are mostly 2 stances on the serve, pinpoint and platform. Your assumption that somehow the groundstoke stances and mechanics apply to the serve is what is messing you up here. They dont apply so there is nothing open about that serve.
"2. Its not an open stance serve. Nothing about it is open stance. And no I have hours of vids changing that serve. Went from that to platform and then back to pinpoint but the right foot is behind the left instead of in front now."
Haha, now you had it in writing: "Its not an open stance serve." So what it is?
A. A pinpoint serve?
B. A close stance serve?
C. A Shroud serve invention? If so, give it a name, please!
Its the vids he cant make that are telling too.Nothing to do with judgement. Your serve really is the slowest 4.0 serve I have ever seen but don't take my word for it. Let's look at the facts:
Your winning percentage has been steadily declining every year since you started your serving experiments. Your results back up what is already clear to everyone who has watched your videos.![]()
In butterfly effect theory, both starting event and the starter can be insignificant, but in order to create a much bigger event, there need to be a chaos at some point. Not every insignificant starting event or start can induce the chaos, otherwise we'll get too many hurricanes from butterfly flops from Brazil. A chaos is very hard to create. You can try to create one yourself, whatever subject you like to do.
My open tennis serve endeavor has some characteristic of insignificances that may lead to some chaos in the tennis world. It will take years to conclude whether it is or is not. We just need to wait and see.
If you had watched my videos three four years ago then you can conclude yourself in terms of "added power".
Now I'm working on more added spin using 3O (Open stance, Open grip, Open Wrist) serve. Here is the video. Notice that some of the topspin serves were one bouncers to the curtain; matching some of my flat serves three four years ago, and some serves can bounce 5 feet at the baseline.
Nothing to do with judgement. Your serve really is the slowest 4.0 serve I have ever seen but don't take my word for it. Let's look at the facts:
Your winning percentage has been steadily declining every year since you started your serving experiments. Your results back up what is already clear to everyone who has watched your videos.![]()
There are mostly 2 stances on the serve, pinpoint and platform. Your assumption that somehow the groundstoke stances and mechanics apply to the serve is what is messing you up here. They dont apply so there is nothing open about that serve.
So the answer is A. Pinpoint though a flawed one.
The 3rd one would be a middleground like what Roddick used. Where its a narrow platform.
Anyhow we will never agree on this. But hey its your reputation if you want to continue to dodge the serve challenge. We can agree that you cant pass the challenge. If you could there would be a vid. The challenge is a whole nother month. So make a video gary.
Can your technique pass that serve challenge??
Most top elite payers' winning percentage will steadily declining every year past thirty or so, Federer, Nadal and others a very few who did exceptional well to maintain their sharpness past thirty. At my retirement age, I'm pretty happy that I can still play at 4.0 level and rated as above average 4.0.
I don't know how old you are or what is your USTA rating. Can you share it so we can judge who well you maintain your playing ability.
You have no evidence that your "open wets" serve has any benefit at all. Gary, mate, why are you doing this?
Haha, may I ask: why were you just following others, just trying hard to post something interest, instead creating something interesting for others to follow?
As I said we will never agree because you think that the fh somehow applies to the serve. It doesnt. One example is that you say the "server's feet are roughly lining up with the ball path at loading stage," however the ball path on the serve is very different than a forehand. The ball path is either stationary or slightly coming down from right to left. So its a vertical incoming ball path not a horizontal. So pretty much any foot position is perpendicular to the incoming ball. Its why no coach talks about open or closed in reference to the serve. IMHO the big thing you are missing and a lot of rec players miss is that the serve is primarily hit UP at an angle into the court. Not down and horizontally. Thats why the forehand doesnt apply to the serve stances and no one but Gary calls serve stances open or closed, etc.Both pin-point stance and platform stance server's feet are roughly lining up with the ball path at loading stage, you feet is almost parallel to net, or perpendicular to the ball path, like a open stance forehand. Don't fool yourself by saying "So the answer is A. Pinpoint though a flawed one." Pin-point stance starts with the feet apart then back foot step forward behind and close to the front feet. Look at how wide open your feet are? Are you have\ing a flawed mind thinking that some clever words can fool everyone around.
As I said we will never agree because you think that the fh somehow applies to the serve. It doesnt. One example is that you say the "server's feet are roughly lining up with the ball path at loading stage," however the ball path on the serve is very different than a forehand. The ball path is either stationary or slightly coming down from right to left. So its a vertical incoming ball path not a horizontal. So pretty much any foot position is perpendicular to the incoming ball. Its why no coach talks about open or closed in reference to the serve. IMHO the big thing you are missing and a lot of rec players miss is that the serve is primarily hit UP at an angle into the court. Not down and horizontally. Thats why the forehand doesnt apply to the serve stances and no one but Gary calls serve stances open or closed, etc.
Anyhow it doesnt matter. If you want to say I hit openstance and somehow think my head and my heart were at odds and you want to think all kind of things, go ahead. All I can tell you is that no matter what you call that footwork I knew it was not efficient. I worked hard to change it precisely because hitting that way and even more with the nipples to the net as you advocate is just a bad way to serve.. If you need to think you taught me something go ahead.
Now can your serve pass the Jolly Challenge? Where is the video? Why is your technique incapable of passing that test?
Congrats man. DIdnt think you could do it. Would like to see more umph and some more kick off the court but good job winning the jolly prize.Here is the video:
And I passed the Jolly Challenge test - Jolly Challenge Thread
What would you say now @Shroud ?
Congrats man. DIdnt think you could do it. Would like to see more umph and some more kick off the court but good job winning the jolly prize.
Great pronation, didn't realize this was possible with flapjack grip. Some of those really close to net, prob unreturnable if opponent standing way back.How about we do the knee down version using the current Jolly Challenge rules as I suggest J011yroger.
Here is a video I did in 2014 -
Looks like @oserver might be onto something. Unfortunately Thiem only good enough to do 180 serves...
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