Why is Britain so bad at Tennis?

[Hyde]

If you look at the Top-100 rankings in ATP and WTA, you will notice that there are very few british players. If we look at the five most populous countries in Europe, these are the total amounts of ATP and WTA players these countries have in the Top-100 right now:


In total (2023):

France: 14
Spain: 11
Italy: 11
Germany: 8
Britain: 6

And honestly, that’s the best state British Tennis has been in in a long time. If we go 10 years back (so back to 2013), the totals (male and female) look like this:


Totals (2013):

Spain: 18
France: 16
Germany: 14
Italy: 9
Britain: 2

If we go another 10 years back (so 2003), the totals look like this:


Totals (2003):

Spain: 24
France: 15
Italy: 8
Germany: 7
Britain: 0


If we sum that up (so the totals in Top-100 from 2023, 2013 & 2003 together), it looks like this:


Totals in ATP & WTA Top-100 (2023 + 2013 + 2003):

Spain: 53
France: 45
Germany: 29
Italy: 28
Britain: 8


So if you see that list, it’s not even close how bad the British are compared to these other european nations.

For me, this is especially surprising because UK is one of the countries where Tennis is fairly popular and there is a great Tennis tradition.

For example, even in my country (Germany), there is always that complaint that „we are bad at Tennis“ and that Germany doesn’t produce enough good Tennis players. But if you look at this list, the situation is even FAR worse in UK, even though Tennis is more niche in Germany than in UK (Germany doesn’t have a Slam or Masters 1000 tournament, and so there is very little interest in Germany to watch ATP & WTA, very few here care about Tennis).

So with the UK having a great Tennis tradition and a good interest in Tennis, why is Great Britain so bad at producing pro tennis players compared to the other big european nations? What’s going on in the UK?

 

[Krish872007]

It's not just tennis, it's sports in general.
Our system promotes and celebrates mediocrity. Difficult one to explain
Only the swimming programme is pretty rigorous - they instil a "must win" mindset into young up and coming athletes, sessions are extremely taxing, facilities are well-funded, nutrition is strictly observed

 

[ojo rojo]

@TimHenmanATG

 

[junior74]

Hard to move well in those jolly outfits

 

[Deleted member 758560]

coz why even trying to prove sth to someone if you are already confident in your superiority, regardless of the result

 

[Automatix]

...

Totals (2003):

Spain: 24
France: 15
Italy: 8
Germany: 7
Britain: 0

...

As mentioned above... Tim Henman? This puts in doubt your stats big time...

 

[MichaelNadal]

Bc they have beans for breakfast

 

[Hyde]

It's not just tennis, it's sports in general.
Our system promotes and celebrates mediocrity. Difficult one to explain
Only the swimming programme is pretty rigorous - they instil a "must win" mindset into young up and coming athletes, sessions are extremely taxing, facilities are well-funded, nutrition is strictly observed

But you are good at Olympics and even at producing football players lately. But Tennis, not so much.

 

[michael valek]

because tennis is a social activity mainly in the uk, with a social club culture which doesn't exist in other countries because, well, it just doesn't. Plus tennis clubs and coaching are ridiculously expensive in the UK compared to sending your kids to football / rugby / swimming / athletics.

 

[Terenigma]

I'm not sure we could really pinpoint it down to a straight forward reason. I personally blame the lack of coverage tennis gets in comparison to other popular sports in the UK and from what I gather from other posters from other countries, you guys seem to get decent tennis coverage for all the major events such as masters/slams. We don't, not unless it's a specific paid for channel and even then most masters are not covered. Wimbledon is the only slam we get decent coverage off and predictably it's because it's a UK event.

Also our media (Especially the BBC) are god awful at promoting the "sport" of tennis unless there is a Brit involved which is why we constantly see stories about Dan Evans losing or Raducanu being injured yet again just because they're Brits and who is going to be inspired to become the next tennis star by that? Enough of these non-stories, show coverage of Zverev's awesome BH winner vs Alcaraz. Show highlights of Djokovic vs Rublev at Paris, show the damn ATP finals on normal TV!

 

[albertobra]

Brits are just behind in tennis.

It took a helluvatime to get rid of white balls.
It took a helluvatime to apply tiebreak on normal sets
It took a helluvatime to apply tiebreak on fifth set
It will take a helluvatime to accept outfits other than white
It will take a helluvatime to accept that tennis today is mainly hitting hard from baseline
It will take a helluvatime to leave grass courts as main practice courts.

 

[jl809]

It's not just tennis, it's sports in general.
Our system promotes and celebrates mediocrity. Difficult one to explain
Only the swimming programme is pretty rigorous - they instil a "must win" mindset into young up and coming athletes, sessions are extremely taxing, facilities are well-funded, nutrition is strictly observed

I’d disagree here, we have absolutely dominated the last 3 Olympic Games considering our size. We have only finished behind the US or China each time overall, with world class cycling, rowing etc as well as the swimming like you say.

I think the National Lottery money goes towards our sport or something like that. It must be the coaching which is letting down the tennis… we’ve always been good at “sitting down” sports, but we also had some of the best cricket teams in the world until recently too and are really good at stuff like squash, so it’s not like Brits suck at hand eye coordination (sadly I certainly do, but anyway)

 

[AO13]

Like Krish said, it's not just tennis, Brits are generally bad in almost all sports.

Maybe it's lack of talent.

 

[Grafil Injection]

Because for 7 months of the year, outdoor play is not consistently available due to cold, wind, rain, snow, fog etc. And there aren't enough indoor courts in most towns. Take a look at the UTR Progress Tour currently going on in Norwich. It's at the only indoor facility in that City, so about 1/2 million people in the catchment area this week are reliant on good weather, which we aren't having. In contrast, in France (southern half), Spain, Italy, Switzerland (flat bits), Germany (good indoor facilities), you can play all year.

 

[accidental]

Even with those numbers, Britain has still won more grand slams than Italy, France, Germany over the last 20 years

 

[Hyde]

Because for 7 months of the year, outdoor play is not consistently available due to cold, wind, rain, snow, fog etc. And there aren't enough indoor courts in most towns. Take a look at the UTR Progress Tour currently going on in Norwich. It's at the only indoor facility in that City, so about 1/2 million people in the catchment area this week are reliant on good weather, which we aren't having. In contrast, in France (southern half), Spain, Italy, Switzerland (flat bits), Germany (good indoor facilities), you can play all year.

So since Tennis is relatively popular in the UK and the UK is a wealthy country, why don’t they build more Tennis indoor facilities?

 

[Grafil Injection]

Regarding all sports, and ignoring our hopeless 50-overs cricket team, Britain is in the top-4 of many global sports and above other European countries at the Olympics. Indeed if you aggregated the European countries up to the same population as the US, say UK + Germany + France + Spain + Italy, they would be top of everything.

 

[Wurm]

It's a cold, wet and windy country that has almost no affordable indoor tennis facilities unless you're rich enough to not care about being fleeced by an over-subscribed David Lloyd centre that expects you to pay for gym facilities you never use.

Football is the national sport, anyway, and hoovers up the vast majority of kids with the kind of body and athletic ability that might produce a good tennis player - even Andy Murray might've ended up playing football for a living instead of tennis - without having anything like the same cost (nor ability level to turn pro) barrier in place.

 

[Grafil Injection]

So since Tennis is relatively popular in the UK and the UK is a wealthy country, why don’t they build more Tennis indoor facilities?

Tennis is relatively popular, but not super-popular compared to football, rugby, cricket and golf. Due to the weather issues, it's still considered a bit of a fun social sport apart from for 2 months of the year around Wimbledon. So taking the plunge to build an indoor facility (£1m+) is a risky business. Also, I think we like to play sports outside, and for low cost, so we're in a bit of a bind.

 

[RS]

I’d disagree here, we have absolutely dominated the last 3 Olympic Games considering our size. We have only finished behind the US or China each time overall, with world class cycling, rowing etc as well as the swimming like you say.

I think the National Lottery money goes towards our sport or something like that. It must be the coaching which is letting down the tennis… we’ve always been good at “sitting down” sports, but we also had some of the best cricket teams in the world until recently too and are really good at stuff like squash, so it’s not like Brits suck at hand eye coordination (sadly I certainly do, but anyway)

Yeah adjusted for country size is good point for UK.

 

[Hyde]

Also, I think we like to play sports outside

I noticed that too, indoor sports like Volleyball, Handball, Basketball and Ice Hockey are very popular in continental Europe (those are the main sports after Football in Continental Europe), but they aren’t popular at all in the UK.

 

[Grafil Injection]

I noticed that too, indoor sports like Volleyball, Handball, Basketball and Ice Hockey are very popular in continental Europe (those are the main sports after Football in Continental Europe), but they aren’t popular at all in the UK.

Yeah, with our dodgy weather we should be good at badminton too, but I think we just like going outdoors and having something to complain about.

 

[Jonesy]

Because of the fog. People can't see thing after thing, so it makes it impossible to play tennis.

 

[Sudacafan]

Why is Britain so bad at Tennis?​

That's a totally wrong an unfounded perception that keeps @TimHenmanATG busy fighting against, day in, day out.

 

[Bill Lobsalot]

Yeah, with our dodgy weather we should be good at badminton too, but I think we just like going outdoors and having something to complain about.

UK golfers cope with the weather just fine.

 

[Deleted member 629564]

[content deleted by user]

 

[michael valek]

I noticed that too, indoor sports like Volleyball, Handball, Basketball and Ice Hockey are very popular in continental Europe (those are the main sports after Football in Continental Europe), but they aren’t popular at all in the UK.

indoor sports are popular in europe.........here in slovakia, as soon as summer ends, almost noone goes out if its cloudy. In wales, we had winter leagues in tennis in rain, sleet, storms etc. people are just different.

 

[KantenKlaar]

British media is the culprit. If someone so much as take one breath on a tennis court they run with it and immediately the pressure is on... Raducanu, Draper etc. And the silly tennis players also fall for it. They believe they have made it before they have achieved anything. Ask Murray, you actually have to work for it and earn it. Tennis is not charity, not being on the dole.

 

[KantenKlaar]

Look where their rugby and cricket are. Luckily they cannot fire Eddy Jones twice. Go Bokke!

 

[junior74]

Britain is good at rock n roll

Beatles, Stones, The Who, Led Zep, Black Sabbath, Pink Floyd, Queen, Kinks, Joy Division, Deep Purple, Jethro Tull, Genesis, Iron Maiden, The Police, Dire Straits, Sex Pistols, Radiohead, Belle & Sebastian, The Cure, Depeche Mode, The Smiths, T-Rex, Bowie, Roxy Music, The Clash, The Stone Roses, Oasis, Blur, Pulp, Franz Ferdinand, Muse, Def Leppard, Judas Priest...

 

[Rafa4LifeEver]

If you look at the Top-100 rankings in ATP and WTA, you will notice that there are very few british players. If we look at the five most populous countries in Europe, these are the total amounts of ATP and WTA players these countries have in the Top-100 right now:


In total (2023):

France: 14
Spain: 11
Italy: 11
Germany: 8
Britain: 6

And honestly, that’s the best state British Tennis has been in in a long time. If we go 10 years back (so back to 2013), the totals (male and female) look like this:


Totals (2013):

Spain: 18
France: 16
Germany: 14
Italy: 9
Britain: 2

If we go another 10 years back (so 2003), the totals look like this:


Totals (2003):

Spain: 24
France: 15
Italy: 8
Germany: 7
Britain: 0


If we sum that up (so the totals in Top-100 from 2023, 2013 & 2003 together), it looks like this:


Totals in ATP & WTA Top-100 (2023 + 2013 + 2003):

Spain: 53
France: 45
Germany: 29
Italy: 28
Britain: 8


So if you see that list, it’s not even close how bad the British are compared to these other european nations.

For me, this is especially surprising because UK is one of the countries where Tennis is fairly popular and there is a great Tennis tradition.

For example, even in my country (Germany), there is always that complaint that „we are bad at Tennis“ and that Germany doesn’t produce enough good Tennis players. But if you look at this list, the situation is even FAR worse in UK, even though Tennis is more niche in Germany than in UK (Germany doesn’t have a Slam or Masters 1000 tournament, and so there is very little interest in Germany to watch ATP & WTA, very few here care about Tennis).

So with the UK having a great Tennis tradition and a good interest in Tennis, why is Great Britain so bad at producing pro tennis players compared to the other big european nations? What’s going on in the UK?

The heights started with Murray and ended with Murray.

 

[chrischris]

It's not just tennis, it's sports in general.
Our system promotes and celebrates mediocrity. Difficult one to explain
Only the swimming programme is pretty rigorous - they instil a "must win" mindset into young up and coming athletes, sessions are extremely taxing, facilities are well-funded, nutrition is strictly observed

Class hierarchy maybe..?

 

[chrischris]

British media is the culprit. If someone so much as take one breath on a tennis court they run with it and immediately the pressure is on... Raducanu, Draper etc. And the silly tennis players also fall for it. They believe they have made it before they have achieved anything. Ask Murray, you actually have to work for it and earn it. Tennis is not charity, not being on the dole.

Who owns the Tabloids?

 

[ActualTennisPlayer]

Maybe it’s the terrible weather? Who wants to play lots of tennis in that weather? Also explains why Italy, Spain and France are better than Germany

And yes as other have said Britain is not that good at sports in general.
Even at the Olympics, Britain was not that good until they put loads of money for their home Olympics 2012. And at the Winter Olympics they are terrible.

 

[Musterrific]

Doesn't help that their best best player for generations, Andy Murray, is a Scottish nationalist

 

[Fabresque]

It's pretty simple. It's a thing called "British mentality".

As children and even adults, they are coddled and treated like the greatest athletes ever for simply turning up. "We invented the sport coorrrrrr". They build a spoiled, entitled attitude like the whole world revolves around them and they have to be the greatest.

Then, when another nationality starts competing with them, instead of competing back they start crying. This is the "British mentality" and it's rife in football. How many times are Premier League clubs absolutely carried by foreign players on their backs, whilst it's the British dross getting paid the most to not perform?

At the very least, Sir Andy didn't conform to this stereotype. He was a hard worker, his mom made sure of it. No "British mentality" in sight, he hated Britain and was a proper Scot.

 

[weakera]

 

[Mainad]

Britain is good at rock n roll

Beatles, Stones, The Who, Led Zep, Black Sabbath, Pink Floyd, Queen, Kinks, Joy Division, Deep Purple, Jethro Tull, Genesis, Iron Maiden, The Police, Dire Straits, Sex Pistols, Radiohead, Belle & Sebastian, The Cure, Depeche Mode, The Smiths, T-Rex, Bowie, Roxy Music, The Clash, The Stone Roses, Oasis, Blur, Pulp, Franz Ferdinand, Muse, Def Leppard, Judas Priest...

Funny, because some observers won't even allow us that. I recall 1 commentator at CNN saying that Britain was a country "not noted for its music". I kid you not!

 

[Mainad]

It's pretty simple. It's a thing called "British mentality".

As children and even adults, they are coddled and treated like the greatest athletes ever for simply turning up. "We invented the sport coorrrrrr". They build a spoiled, entitled attitude like the whole world revolves around them and they have to be the greatest.

Then, when another nationality starts competing with them, instead of competing back they start crying. This is the "British mentality" and it's rife in football. How many times are Premier League clubs absolutely carried by foreign players on their backs, whilst it's the British dross getting paid the most to not perform?

At the very least, Sir Andy didn't conform to this stereotype. He was a hard worker, his mom made sure of it. No "British mentality" in sight, he hated Britain and was a proper Scot.

We'll always have Andy, thank goodness. BTW he doesn't hate Britain at all, he's married to an English wife and lives in England. He was proud to carry the Union Flag at the Olympics. Of course, he's a proud Scot too!

 

[Connor35]

Even with those numbers, Britain has still won more grand slams than Italy, France, Germany over the last 20 years

But would you take that bet for the next 20?

 

[junior74]

Funny, because some observers won't even allow us that. I recall 1 commentator at CNN saying that Britain was a country "not noted for its music". I kid you not!

Hahaha!

Should be "stuff you only hear on Talk Tennis" - and CNN!

Total and utter madness!

 

[Grafil Injection]

UK golfers cope with the weather just fine.

I'm almost 100% certain that I'd be a scratch golfer, if it wasn't for our pesky weather.

 

[fedfan24]

Britain is good at rock n roll

Beatles, Stones, The Who, Led Zep, Black Sabbath, Pink Floyd, Queen, Kinks, Joy Division, Deep Purple, Jethro Tull, Genesis, Iron Maiden, The Police, Dire Straits, Sex Pistols, Radiohead, Belle & Sebastian, The Cure, Depeche Mode, The Smiths, T-Rex, Bowie, Roxy Music, The Clash, The Stone Roses, Oasis, Blur, Pulp, Franz Ferdinand, Muse, Def Leppard, Judas Priest...

What a list. Britain it at the very top when it comes to rock and pop music.

 

[michael valek]

Some of these comments are hilarious

 

[Grafil Injection]

This is so true, but very understandable from the economic theory of opportunity cost. I could buy about 500 tennis rackets for the price of teeth straightening.

 

[JasonZ]

It's not just tennis, it's sports in general.
Our system promotes and celebrates mediocrity. Difficult one to explain
Only the swimming programme is pretty rigorous - they instil a "must win" mindset into young up and coming athletes, sessions are extremely taxing, facilities are well-funded, nutrition is strictly observed

in football england was overhyped for decades in the past. however they are really strong since 2018 and very strong since 2021, maybe they win the euro next year.

 

[BeatlesFan]

Bc they have beans for breakfast

A full English breakfast is even more cholesterol-dangerous than a typical American breakfast.

English breakfast:

American breakfast:

@MichaelNadal Denny's grand slam!

 

[BeatlesFan]

@Mainad - what are those round black things on the plate? Not bangers, but... What?

 

[Mainad]

A full English breakfast is even more cholesterol-dangerous than a typical American breakfast.

English breakfast:

American breakfast:

@MichaelNadal Denny's grand slam!

A little bit of what you fancy never does any harm providing you're not allergic to anything and you're not eating these meals every day.

I love a full English breakfast (which is almost universally popular here except with vegetarians and food fetishists of course). Far tastier than any other kind of breakfast IMO.

 

[-snake-]

They only care about acting and playing guitar.