Crisstti
Legend
If you want to go there, Nadal is also treated differently because he's Spanish/Latin.
Why is Djokovic not as popular as Nadal? Federer...
- Thread starter Backspin1183
- Start date
If you want to go there, Nadal is also treated differently because he's Spanish/Latin.
Federer has never been as popular as Borg either. Borg was at the epicentre of Tennis when it was as big as any sport on the planet, including America. Nobody can match the sort of global frenzy Borg generated, because the popularity of the sport peaked in Borg's era, where several players were household names (not just one or two like today). Federer has also never been as popular as Agassi in America, so I don't really get your point.
Who said Federer is still at the top? You? The Federer Nation? He's defintely up there, but I'd say right now, today, Nadal is the most popular player in the sport. THe TV exec from ESPN said recently that in America, viewers only care about 4 players. The Williams sisters (obviously being American) and Federer and Nadal. He said Murray and Djokovic were non-factors when it came to ratings.
This year's US Open mens final was the highest rated in SIX YEARS! And that was because of Nadal, who as the exec stated, was the only factor for American TV audiences. Federer appeared in the 2008 and 2009 finals, yet he still couldn't top Nadal's 2013 final viewership. That's actual EVIDENCE. The empircal RATINGS of the US OPen final this year suggest Nadal has become more popular in America than Federer with TV viewers of the last few years.
Federer and Nadal both benefitted from their rivalry in terms of popularity. Before the 2008 Wimbledon final, Federer was actually seen as someone struggling to impact on American audiences. He couldn't even get on the cover of Sports Illustrated no matter how many slams he won. Being on the losing end of the "greatest match of all time" (Wimby 2008) finally got Fed his Sports Illustrated cover....which he had to share with Nadal.
Before Nadal, in America, Fed was just seen as some boring Swiss guy who won a lot of tennis matches. People knew him, but interest in him was much more limited. The Nadal rivalry sparked even greater interest in Federer.
Now that Nadal is getting serious GOAT talk, I imagine his popularity will continue to grow.
mandy01
G.O.A.T.
You wouldn't be saying that if you saw the crowds at USO this year but anyway, even without that your premise is SO DEBATABLE. As of today, Federer stands the most marketable player on tour and among the highest in all of sports. Afaik, his finals have also received higher ratings than Nadal-Djokovic. Borg's popularity was derived off of a bunch of American rivals he had at the time pulling in more people.
And anyway, America =/= the globe OR universal popularity. NOT even close. Ergo, your argument falls at its very outset.
Federer's endorsement, other awards, his winning the Fan favourite 11 straight times all stands testament to what I just said.
You've obviously gotten skewed statistics. This year's USO final ranked even lower than the women's final. Stop making up ****e and POST your links if you're so confident. Besides, the ratings weren't down to Nadal alone. Obviously his manufactured rivalry with Djokovic had something to do with it. Federer's had HIGHER ratings with people you consider as the 'members of the weak era.'
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Serena Williams is the most popular tennis player in America, genius. More popular than both Fed and Nadal. So it's obvious why the womens final was rated higher.
Still doesn't change the fact that Nadal's final (and we are talking about MENS TENNIS here) was rated higher than Fed's last two US open finals. To me that's actual evidence that Nadal is more popular in the biggest market in the world than Federer, right now, today. You can't keep living in the past, y'know.
And the ESPN TV executive recently said that Murray and Djokovic do not help ratings in America, so it's a fail to say Djokovic played a big part in the 6 year ratings high. It was all Nadal.
Federer got lots of awards and is still earning big money off endorsements he's gotten over the years....but so what? That's not empirical prooof that Federer is still the most popular player in the sport TODAY (worldwide or anywhere else). Nadal was treated like a God during the South American swing on his comeback....does that mean he's more popular than Fed in South America these days....no idea. It's anecdoatal evidence.
TV RATINGS are empirical evidence. TWITTER FOLLOWERS are empirical evidence (and Nadal has millions more of them today than Federer, as things currently stand).
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Anti-Fedal
Professional
Because he is a good person
mandy01
G.O.A.T.
Absolutely NOT. Nadal's ONE final rated above Federer's and that was directly a result of his current match-up with Novak. He has played a total of three finals there.
Djokovic INDIVIDUALLY doesn't play a big part of the ratings. His rivalry with the top guys has nothing to do with what was said on ESPN. We;re not discussing how much ratings his first-round matches fetch. Stop misrepresenting facts.
LOL, what rubbish is this? Where are YOU providing me with empirical evidence here?
FACT: Federer has the highest number of endorsements.
FACT: Federer has received 11 straight fan favourites till as recently as last year and numerous other awards.
FACT: Federer has better overall TV rating than Nadal (for whom you've provided nothing more than ONE sample-size).
And as for anecdotal evidence, it's not my fault you didn't read reports of Roger's South-American exhos or the way he was treated by the Chinese fans just THIS year. Not my problem your entire argument is based on a false, weak premise.
Now, let's see you provide some real evidence. I think you know you've lost the argument.
TV RATINGS OF ONE YEAR are not empirical evidence by any stretch of imagination (you obviously don't know how to present an argument at all) and like I said are tied to his rivalry. As an aside the TV ratings you've cited are conformed to the United States ONLY. No more, no less ergo by themselves, they hold little evidentiary value of global popularity.
As for twitter, Roger joined twitter in the second half of THIS year. I say we wait and watch.
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TheTruth
G.O.A.T.
You are so awesome, and a master at debunking.
All of this is so on point.
And speaking of that Sports Illustrated cover, it was the first time Federer made it and they only showed his back. Nadal was given the more recognizable body shot. That ought to tell you something, and that is that outside of that little clique, (which has been influential) real world evidence says otherwise.
I don't know where people get the notion that Federer is more popular, because I have not seen any evidence of it.
A few commentators saying that he's beloved everywhere is not proof. Those things are measured by the Q ratings and not one person has ever produced those stats, so it's just blowing smoke, until we actually see something to quantify it, the Federer is the most popular tennis player is just another subjective opinion.
I have seen Federer in person and I saw zero pandemonium regarding his appearance...
Rafa, Serena, and Pete, that's a whole 'nother can of worms.
Backspin1183
Talk Tennis Guru
WTF! How did this thread turn into another Nadal vs Federer thread????? Give Djokovic some respect, you crazy FeDal fans!
Federer and Nadal are highly popular, even my mom who isn't a tennis fan likes watching them. No need to discuss who's more popular of the two.
It's also true that Nadal's recent victory at the US Open has raised his popularity further in America.
But, I wonder why people don't enjoy Djokovic like they do Nadal and Federer. I'm not sure it's because he's Serbian.
I did ask mother why she doesn't watch Djokovic matches, she says it's because she finds Djokovic lacking grace on court and over-celebrates points. Wonder if more people feel that way too.
I personally don't find his celebrations over the top except a few matches like the AO 2012 final.
Sometimes I feel like maybe most casual fans don't see as equal to Federer and Nadal regardless of how successful the Serb has been in recent years.
Federer and Nadal are highly popular, even my mom who isn't a tennis fan likes watching them. No need to discuss who's more popular of the two.
It's also true that Nadal's recent victory at the US Open has raised his popularity further in America.
But, I wonder why people don't enjoy Djokovic like they do Nadal and Federer. I'm not sure it's because he's Serbian.
I did ask mother why she doesn't watch Djokovic matches, she says it's because she finds Djokovic lacking grace on court and over-celebrates points. Wonder if more people feel that way too.
I personally don't find his celebrations over the top except a few matches like the AO 2012 final.
Sometimes I feel like maybe most casual fans don't see as equal to Federer and Nadal regardless of how successful the Serb has been in recent years.
W
Wim
Guest
I agree! I live in an area with alot of tennis and mothers and fathers dont like their kids watching Novak. (I am talking small kids.. 3++) It is his behaviour on court. If you know what he is screaming in serbian aswell it is just a bit to odd to like him. He is to strange for many people. He is this guy who can bend alot and later in the match if he wins he is ripping of his shirt. Just strange...
clayqueen
Bionic Poster
Nadal is popular simply because he is so charismatic. Federer was dominant for a few years plus the fact that he is heavily marketed but, for some reason, no amount of marketing will do it for Djokovic. He doesn't have anything that Fedal doesn't have, so he just falls between the two stools.
Finally some evidence. Because some poster was claiming people like this style and long rallies more. I guess he was using personal opinion. At least now we know, that people want multidimensional style and more variety of styles and surfaces.
FreeBird
Legend
LOLLLLLLLL...... :lol:
JoshT
Semi-Pro
powerangle
Legend
Why do you people (and others) keep bringing up the shirt rips? You make it sound like he does it every other match. Um, news flash: he's maybe done it 3 times in the last 3 years??? (AO 2011 final after beating Murray, AO 2012 final after beating Nadal, and AO 2013 Rd 4 after beating Wawrinka).
In the case of AO 2012, and AO 2013, they were after EPIC matches with both players battling it out for hours. And in the case of 2011...it wasn't even a shirt rip, he just took his shirt off and tossed it in the crowd. Way to make a mountain out of a molehill. Maybe the two shirt rips (in 3 years) had a huge impact on you because he dared to beat Nadal and Wawrinka who were also playing well, and your dislike/hatred of Novak shines through. A rather benign shirt rip (again only two incidences in the last 3 years) just stings you that much more...
It's not like he tears his shirt off after every match win, calm down people. He doesn't even do it after every big/epic win (ie Wim 2013 semifinal, AO 2012 semifinal, etc). It's like some people just like to latch on to a rather uncommon/rare occurrence just so they can use it to denigrate Novak.
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Clarky21
Banned
Sorry, but one time is too many when it comes to behavior like that. Not to mention the constant obscenities he hurls at the crowd and at his opponent. He is also destructive on court as well, taking his over the top anger out on everything around him. Cvac is also a deadbeat who refuses to pay his bills. It's no wonder this guy is losing sponsors.
http://www.sportklub.rs/djokovic-ostaje-bez-teniskih-terena-zbog-neizmirenih-ugovornih-obaveza
FreeBird
Legend
swordtennis
G.O.A.T.
FreeBird
Legend
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powerangle
Legend
It is one too many times for you because you are sensitive to it. It's not right or wrong...it's just that YOU (and apparently some others have a problem with it). I was just talking about the shirt rips, which I disagree with you lot, and don't think it's such a big deal. Regarding the obscenities and destructive behavior...I agree those can be too much. Had the other posters talked about that...I would agree. But some of you are always harping on and focusing on the shirt rips....big whoop.
Where is your proof? Nice trying to go on a hyperbole there. Just because some defend his current behavior, doesn't mean they will defend him if he murders people. Just because you couldn't defend some of your points, you have to go and make that kind of an exaggeration, eh? Maybe it shows your own apparent mental problems to have to bring in the topic of murder when it comes to Novak. What's the matter, can't make a point without having to exaggerate?
Who Am I?
Banned
Not as much in denial as you Nadal fans are who think that he is the GOAT. :lol:
Clarky21
Banned
What the heck are you yammering on about? I provided proof that he is a deadbeat who won't pay his bills, and I can also show you where he has lost 2 of his biggest sponsors within the last week. Where's the lie there, genius?
His shirt rips, cursing, destructive behavior, and frightening outbursts are far worse than Nadal lining up his water bottles or tugging his shorts, but that doesn't stop people like you from making a huge deal out of it now does it? Nadal gets treated like dirt for doing things that hurt no one, yet Cvac can behave like a neanderthal and nothing is said. You and your ilk want people to just ignore it all as if it never happened. You're all just a bunch of hypocrites.
If you're talking about his lousy behavior, all you have to do is actually pay attention to what people are saying about him. Just because certain people on this forum try to sweep his bs under the rug doesn't mean everybody does.
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Clarky21
Banned
I never said that he was GOAT, troll. You are wasting your time responding to me because you just got slam dunked into my garbage can.
powerangle
Legend
Um, please learn to read. I did NOT disagree with any of those points you brought up. Yes, he didn't pay his bills, yes he has destructive behavior. Where did I excuse him for those things?? I only mentioned that people keep bringing up the SHIRT RIPS (to two other posters, before you decided to step in and reply to me, and bring up all these other examples of why he is horrible). My only disagreement is with why people keep bringing up the shirt rips as such a big deal. I agree (I'll state this again for you) that he has deplorable behavior in other cases (obscenities, etc). Do you need to clean those glasses of yours?
Nice try, trying to lump everyone together. I dare you to find ONE post of mine where I have "made a huge deal" out of Rafa's behavior LOL. Just because I disagree with you on Novak's shirt rips and happen to defend Novak on this...I must be a "Rafa hater" according to you, right? I have defended Nadal plenty, especially during those "GOAT" debates, and how he is already greater than Sampras, etc. I'm also a fan of Rafa, but you have your hater glasses on.
I have absolutely no problem with Rafa's superstitions and eccentric behavior...you must be hallucinating. Maybe you have me confused with some other posters...
That's the problem with this board (and you). If someone disagrees with you on a certain aspect of a player that you dislike, they must be "hating on your fave" and you automatically assume they are part of the "hater group".
Bobby Jr
G.O.A.T.
That is utterly terrible use of the available statistics which omits some major factors in the equation like year-on-year variations in the tournament popularity - which are affected by a myriad of details such as the weather (people get bored turning on the TV to find stuff delayed), who is playing when they turn the TV on, what else is on etc. Saying that because the 2013 (edit, or 2010) final had more viewers than the 2009 final demonstrates Nadal is more popular than Federer is spurious in the very least. To suggest it's empirical evidence is to be right at the fringes of reality when measured against others.
This is where you are treating the available data completey rear end-before-face. The value of endorsements is calculated on research which we're not privy to and the amount and value of them is actually a broadly reliable indicator of popularity at both local and global levels - much moreso than the viewership statistics of a single tennis match. Companies engage research to work out who best matches (aspirational or other) traits of their brand(s) and the reach (cross-cultural, by age, by sex, by income type etc) and the results of these efforts is generally reflected in the value of endorsements (because the player's management constantly track these things also - as is their role in keeping up to date on the value of their client).
All these things may be broadly indicative - but they are only broadly indicative. The twitter example you offered however shows the spurious efforts you will sink to to demonstrate something. Taken by itself it seems legit - but the fact Federer only joined Twitter a couple of months ago renders the comparison completely invalid. But I suspect you were well aware of that already so either you chose not to consider it or intentionally didn't mention such an obviously salient detail.
There is no way on Federer is less popular than Nadal on a general, global scale - no matter how popular Nadal is or may be in certain areas or age groups or other subset of the population. You may as well be arguing that Rory McIlroy is more popular than Tiger Woods based on recent tournament metrics.
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W
Wim
Guest
Why doesnt the umpire punish him for what he is screaming to the crowd on court? Because they dont understand serbian? Other players get told of with saying the f word.
The Isomotion31
Semi-Pro
I don't know. There is something about the guy I just can't root for him. Sometimes he seems forced or not genuine.
What does the link mean in English? Does it mention not paying money and losing sponsors? Is there a way to translate it?
Chico
Banned
Yet another Djokovic hate thread :roll:
It is indicative that Clarky can understand Serbian :shock:. The link has nothing to do with Djokovic or his sponsors. It is about the dispute between his family's company (father and uncle) and the city of Belgrade about paying expenses for the courts where former Serbia Open was played.
Another attempt to spread lies and misinformation about Djokovic.
It is indicative that Clarky can understand Serbian :shock:. The link has nothing to do with Djokovic or his sponsors. It is about the dispute between his family's company (father and uncle) and the city of Belgrade about paying expenses for the courts where former Serbia Open was played.
Another attempt to spread lies and misinformation about Djokovic.
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Novak had to front the money, his family owned a pizza shop when he was growing up.
Backspin1183
Talk Tennis Guru
That doesn't explain why Novak is not quite as popular as a dominant 6 time slam winner should be.
Backspin1183
Talk Tennis Guru
I don't know. You think it's insecurity, fear or attention seeking nature the reason for Novak not quite being that popular? Good point.
dominikk1985
Legend
I think part of that is because he is from serbia. I actually think that novak is a more interesting personality than nadal and fed but somehow he doesn't get as much praise for it like "humble nadal" and "gentleman fed".
Dedans Penthouse
Legend
Good question - Novak's a likeable, fun-loving dude.
My guess?
1. Chico.
2. Chico.
Forehand Of Doom
Banned
Yes, Chico is definitely part of the problem. 
But I also think people can't relate to Djokovic's character as easily. Seems to be a gracious loser but then rubs victories a little too much. Also, he seems to be a bit desperate for attention, and the public's love isn't something you can demand.
But I also think people can't relate to Djokovic's character as easily. Seems to be a gracious loser but then rubs victories a little too much. Also, he seems to be a bit desperate for attention, and the public's love isn't something you can demand.
Dedans Penthouse
Legend
I hear you FofD but even if Novak sometimes does try a little too hard overall he's a good guy which leaves Chico as the problem.Yes, Chico is definitely part of the problem.
But I also think people can't relate to Djokovic's character as easily. Seems to be a gracious loser but then rubs victories a little too much.
Also, he seems to be a bit desperate for attention, and the public's love isn't something you can demand.
Crose
Professional
It's marketing. It has nothing to with Novak, really. He seems like a good dude and should be popular.
It's just that Nadal and Federer have been so dominant for so long, sponsors have marketed them through the roof with shoes, racquets, clothes, they made a huge deal out of the rivalry (understandably), and stuff like that. Djokovic is relatively new to the picture, he's only been dominant for about 3 years now..And with 2 marketing behemoths in the picture already, of course Novak isn't going to get the shine that Nadal and Federer did get and still get.
The ATP isn't like the NBA where they're always looking for new guys to put the spotlight on. In the NBA you have Kobe, Lebron, Chris Paul, Blake Griffin, Dwight Howard, Derrick Rose, Kevin Durant, James Harden, Kyrie Irving, Carmelo, etc. And that's because they're stars on their respective teams and there's 30 teams. But tennis is an individual sport, so naturall the only guys that are going to be marketed like crazy are the truly elite guys. And since we've had 2 dominant players for a decade now, they've gotten the bulk of attention. Novak is dominant, but he did it a bit too late to reach their level of popularity.
Nothing wrong with Novak, he was just late to the party.
It's just that Nadal and Federer have been so dominant for so long, sponsors have marketed them through the roof with shoes, racquets, clothes, they made a huge deal out of the rivalry (understandably), and stuff like that. Djokovic is relatively new to the picture, he's only been dominant for about 3 years now..And with 2 marketing behemoths in the picture already, of course Novak isn't going to get the shine that Nadal and Federer did get and still get.
The ATP isn't like the NBA where they're always looking for new guys to put the spotlight on. In the NBA you have Kobe, Lebron, Chris Paul, Blake Griffin, Dwight Howard, Derrick Rose, Kevin Durant, James Harden, Kyrie Irving, Carmelo, etc. And that's because they're stars on their respective teams and there's 30 teams. But tennis is an individual sport, so naturall the only guys that are going to be marketed like crazy are the truly elite guys. And since we've had 2 dominant players for a decade now, they've gotten the bulk of attention. Novak is dominant, but he did it a bit too late to reach their level of popularity.
Nothing wrong with Novak, he was just late to the party.
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Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
NIce response. I've been lurking on these forums for a year now and you definitely seem like one of the better Nadal fans around here. Good to see.
NEW_BORN
Hall of Fame
Irving and Harden i'll let it slide, but Blake Griffin does not belong in that group.
Forehand Of Doom
Banned
True, Dedans. I just didn't know that Chico had a worldwide audience outside the forum.
By the way, Sir, when you pwn a hater dialectically as you are in the habit of doing , may I say the subject in question has gotten DP'ed? Or is this an overly vulgar, albeit funny reference?
Crose
Professional
I think he does. Blake Griffin is one of the most marketed NBA players in the league right now. He is so hyped up by the media it's absurd.
That list was about well marketed NBA players. It wasn't a list of the best players or my favorites or anything. If it was, trust me, Blake wouldn't be on it.
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Crose
Professional
Thanks dude. I find it hard to hate certain players like some other posters do. It's easier to enjoy tennis when you don't hate anyone.
powerangle
Legend
Spot on.
There are unfortunately trolls and haters on this forum that will do anything to discredit a player.
TMF
Talk Tennis Guru
And your problem is always looking for trouble. No wonder you have low post count because most of them got deleted.
jiddy-p
Semi-Pro
There is so much 'hatred' on these forums its sickening. Sometimes it's hard to believe this is a forum for tennis fans.
I'm a Roger man myself, but I love all the top guys. Nadal is my second favourite player because he rules. You can't argue with that. There are no players that I dislike. I wasn't a fan of Murray when he was a bratty little teen well into his 20's but he's grown up now.
The hatred really needs to stop. You can't call yourself a tennis fan and hate either Federer, Nadal or Djokivic. These guys are arguably playing the best tennis that has ever been playing and we hate it? Ridiculous.
And it's only a few people. Names like Chico and Dark Knight come to mind, but really it's a small handful of bitter people.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Man, this is one outstanding post and I totally agree.
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