chalkflewup
Hall of Fame
Arrogant streak? Maybe you confused Fed with Novak. Any true tennis fan recognizes the class, work ethic, and excellence that both Fed and Rafa bring to the court.
Why is Federer so much more popular than Nadal?
- Thread starter FeVer
- Start date
Arrogant streak? Maybe you confused Fed with Novak. Any true tennis fan recognizes the class, work ethic, and excellence that both Fed and Rafa bring to the court.
Junior Prodigy
New User
You do not get to the level that BOTH Federer and Nadal are at without being a sore loser that is what drives them on everyday to get better and better or in Fed's case at the moment try to get better. Federer is the more popular just because of his style of tennis it is much easier to watch.
FeVer
Semi-Pro
People don't say that when they've just been comprehensively outplayed by a man. I find it strange how you've managed to misinterpret what Federer was saying. That comment is arrogant by any standards. Most pundits/fans regard Federer's and Nadal's ability as pretty much equal. And yet Federer says here that if he plays his best tennis, there's no way Nadal can win and he will control the match. Now maybe I'm missing something but I don't think I've ever seen Federer control Nadal apart from when Nadal is playing miles below his top level (for instance the first tentative encounters on grass). The very nature of the rivalry and the relative strengths and weakness is that Nadal, more often than not, is the player who controls the match.
What I find so strange is that when Federer says something as patently arrogant as this, everyone turns a blind eye. If any other top player made such a comment, Nadal included, they'd be crucified.
Bobby Jr
G.O.A.T.
Simple... do an image search on each. It is plainly obvious to see right there in front of you. It couldn't be more obvious if it wore a pink shirt and picked its butt.
Nor I. I just thought it was appropriate (not sure why) because of some of the mind-bogglingly ******** people on this board who are so partisan they can't see the wood for the trees.
Simple: there are lies, damned lies... and then there are statistics.
Selective and flawed use of statistics are amongst the most common pieces of 'evidence' used on this board. The basic trend line goes: the more ******** or younger a poster, the more likely they are to have opinions on tennis which are way ahead of their actual knowledge of tennis or ability to analyse things for what they are instead of what they think they are.
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But Federer IS criticised for it. YOU are criticising him. Obviously his fans don't tend to criticise him, just like Nadal's fans don't tend to criticise him for time-wasting.
Your attitude seems a very immature one, it's as if you simply cannot comprehend that some people have opinions different from your own.
Povl Carstensen
Legend
I think Federer and Nadal are both quite popular, but whats with all the hate here? Really funny, if it wasnt kind of sad.
And again, oh well, its just a few select people hooked on the angry/negative spiral.
And again, oh well, its just a few select people hooked on the angry/negative spiral.
Omega_7000
Legend
Originally Posted by jackson vile
Poor Roger = ugly wife, ugly mom, ugly sister...
Care to post pictures of your wife, sister & mom? :roll:
Poor Roger = ugly wife, ugly mom, ugly sister...
Care to post pictures of your wife, sister & mom? :roll:
cc0509
Talk Tennis Guru
But Nadal is the perfect picture of upper class distinction? He can barely string a sentence together in English. When you think of their "images" class is not the first thing you think about with Nadal. That is not the image Nike and IMG have set up for Nadal.
Your problem is this the way I see it: Nadal and Federer are merely brands created by their PR makers. It has nothing to do with who they are in reality. People often mistake their created personas with who they really are. The truth is we have no clue who they really are. That is the flaw with the arguments people make when they are talking about these athletes. Image control is what it is all about. An image is set out for them and the script is followed. It is just an image projected to the public. We know nothing about these athletes in reality and to say we do is just madness but here you are mumbling about what Roger is and what Rafa is. All we can go by are their images and Roger has a more sophisticated image than Nadal. At the end of the day who cares who Roger or Rafa endorse? It is all BS and means nothing. It does not say anything about who they really are as people.
cc0509
Talk Tennis Guru
That is why it is avant-garde, original and cutting edge, not middle class one bit. The entire middle class is guaranteed to react as you did... (and seek rolexes instead)
It is the eccentric and free spirited upper class that will see the beauty in its absence of functionality.
Wrong. You cannot talk about an entire middle or upper class and generalize like that. In the upper class world some like Rolex and some like more cutting edge designers. It is just silly to talk about an entire socio-economic status that way. As I said unless you grew up in that world you can't really speak about it just like I could not really speak about homeless people.
You can't blame a person for the family they were born into. It is the luck of the draw and saying everybody in a certain class is this or that is beyond silly.
cc0509
Talk Tennis Guru
There you are again talking about an entire class of people. Do you actually come from an upper middle class or wealthy world? Unless you do, you can't really speak with any knowledge about it can you? All you can go on are cliches.
cc0509
Talk Tennis Guru
But you aren't upper middle or upper class so how can you speak about it with any knowledge?
You want to talk about what percentage of the TENNIS-WATCHING population is white in the US? That is, after all, the group we're talking about. Why are so determined to make this a race discussion? I guarantee you that the majority of American tennis fans - the "us" I was referring to - are white. (Why on Earth would I be referring to any other group? Are we going to discuss how many WWF fans prefer Federer over Rafa?) Take a gander at the crowd at any tennis event and tell me I'm wrong. If making that statement makes me David Duke, I stand guilty as charged.
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And - AGAIN - I am NOT a Fed fan specifically. If you want to tar all Federer fans with that brush, you do so on your own initiative. You seem awfully eager to brand Federer fans as snobbish, elitist boors, while, of course, Nadal fans (of which you're one, based on your avatar) are creative, imaginative, cerebral, and gritty. Are you so insecure that you need to prop yourself and your meager self-image up based on some celebrity's inflated persona? Pathetic.
Yes, this is how we learn about real life. Watching films.
IvanisevicServe
Banned
Nadal plays hideous, boring tennis. Run everything down and wait for opponent to make an error. If not that, he's just lobbing deep top spin shots and waiting for the error.
Federer is the exact opposite.
Federer is the exact opposite.
tennisfarmer
Banned
Fed has the most beautiful technique and just his beautiful technique makes everyone a fan and he is very charismatic.
tennisfarmer
Banned
Ya well it`s a 100 times better than Ivanisevic, a serve fest- boring!
I'd rather own and destroy the arguably greatest player of all times than to be the goat. GOAT OWNER.
TheTruth
G.O.A.T.
You are really stretching. I believe that there are lies around here, but they're not emanating from Google. And, the young thing? The article comes from Google. The ones who keep the statistics, and you know what's so silly about that last part? You used Google yourself. What does that tell you?
P.S.-You are one of the most partisan posters on the board, so you need to keep the innuendoes to yourself. ********? Such an insensitive word to use in trying to have a discussion.
hyogen
Hall of Fame
waits for them to make an error?
he FORCES them to make an error physically and/or mentally....
FeVer
Semi-Pro
And Nadal is, of course, utterly humble, modest, and self-effacing.
Uh huh.
(These guys are both multi-millionaires, huge international stars beloved by people everywhere. Do you honestly thing Federer has a massive ego and Nadal doesn't? They both do; Federer just expresses his differently. I doubt either of them spends a great deal of time thinking about anyone other than themselves and their tennis games. You don't get as good as they are being altruistic.)
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ViscaB
Hall of Fame
It's beatiful for sure.
But to me Nadal probably has one of the best techniques himself as well. How else can you make so few errors. Federer is like Messi with genius plays, while Nadal is like Xavi who is so steady and never misplaces a pass.
And what are your opinions on Nadal's timewasting during a match?
Why don't you hate Nadal for that?
As I said before, it is an incredibly immature attitude you have, where you seem to assume that your opinion is 100% factually correct, and that other opinions are just incorrect.
You need to accept that different people have different opinions, and that one or the other isn't objectively correct.
Mick
Legend
haha if a world class player makes so much unforced errors to lose the match, he deserves to lose the match
tennisfarmer
Banned
I totally agree except I think Federer is more like Ronaldo and Nadal is like Messi
DeShaun
Banned
Nadal is better on the run than Federer, but not WAY better, IMO, when their peaks are compared.
When I think of Federer on the run I think of him on the run in 05/06, when his legs had WAY more liveliness.
He did not seem to be getting pulled side to side as violently back then because his anticipation was better as his livelier legs enabled it to be--simply put, he was in position far more often back then.
But I absolutely agree that Rafa hits on the run better than anyone I can think of; this reminds me of advice, I think, Brad Gilbert gives in Winning Ugly on how to handle retrievers or counterpunchers: he says, they tend to hit extremely well on the run, so one tactic to try against them is to hit directly at them. And so, Rafa being a natural born retriever who evolved into a counterpuncher happens to hit extremely well on the run, better than Federer, who likes to plays a more forward-moving style but who once had the legs to play legendary defense when he had to.
Yes, at the recreational level and maybe slightly above the tactic to hit directly at a retriever can be effective. But I doubt hitting right at Nadal will work..
But I don't see Nadal even as a counterpuncher anymore, to me that term applies more to the Hewit style of play. Nadal has the all the abilities of the perfect counterpuncher, but dictates rallies as well and can moves his opponent around, wearing them out. But when they get him running, I still give him over 50 % to win the point.
He still isn't the all time best player on the run though, that honour has to go to Pete Sampras who, at least as a ATP pro, never was known for his retrieving/counterpunching style. He just waited for the opportunity to hit his running FH and the other guy just heard it whistle past him, painting the line.
Just look at this vid in the former pro department, 6:55 in a recent topic about Sampras athleticism. Just total magic.
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It's very simple:
Federer = Champion
Nadal = Cheater
Both begin with Ch. But similarities end there. People like and respect Champions. Not Cheaters. Cheaters like cheaters. Hence, you can determine the amount of popularity Nadal has by the # of cheaters there are.
Wasn't that simple?
Federer = Champion
Nadal = Cheater
Both begin with Ch. But similarities end there. People like and respect Champions. Not Cheaters. Cheaters like cheaters. Hence, you can determine the amount of popularity Nadal has by the # of cheaters there are.
Wasn't that simple?
Ralph
Hall of Fame
I think you'll find it's the other way around.
Bobby Jr
G.O.A.T.
Please... Google is not the end-all of research and certainly easy to manipulate to show your preferred conclusion. That was the point.
Me one of the most partisan posters? Utter rubbish. I just have a mind to even up some of the absolute fodder level claims posted here on a daily basis (more like hourly).
Many things can be argued both ways (such as the GOAT debate) if you try. For some reason the pro-Nadal posts are the ones which far more often need pointing out for the folly they are. They generally have the hallmarks of immature thought process and language to match. This is nothing new or unique though, it's commonplace on message boards across the world. At least here there are some people who've lived a little who bother to contribute - and many with a high depth of tennis knowledge and who go to lengths to explain their *whatever* because they enjoy/love tennis so much. Their efforts may sometimes come across as partisan or condescending but that's primarily the result of '**** readers who already have their backs up and talons ready for anyone who dares disagree with them. God forbid they post anything which even hints their beloved isn't Rod Laver and Jesus' lovechild.
So far as the Federer/Nadal global popularity debate goes. There literally is no debate. Federer is so many lightyears ahead of Nadal at this stage only a complete muppet would bother to argue otherwise. His name awareness by-far trumps Nadal as well. Any marketer who works in sport would tell you this and so would any appropriately formulated research. I've travelled to dozens of countries in the past few years and seen Federer billboards all over Asia, Europe, in airports, subway stations, hotel lobbies, luxury magazine covers. I can only recall Nadal coming into view promoting Kia cars in a trip to Melbourne once (on the trams which go along by Flinders Station). It's not definitive research but it's certainly consistent with how marketers choose their endorsement horses and Federer's often quoted annual earnings.
(Forbes' 2011 listing has Federer at $47m and Nadal at $31.5m... that $15.5m gap, 50% more or $300,000 a week, doesn't come about through pure guesswork by ad/marketing execs)
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OneMoreShot
Rookie
Fed's game has much more variety. If Nadal is playing another baseliner than there are many less opportunities to witness all aspects of the game.
SoBad
G.O.A.T.
That's true, Fred lost to Nadal in slam finals in a variety of ways, from total Nadal domination to lazy Nadal sleepwalk to victory.
counterpuncher64
New User
This guy knows what's up. I would rep him if this forum had a reputation system. I think you really have to chock Fed v Nadal up to Nike. Its a brilliant marketing ploy and I bet they've made millions off of it. Not only are they lucky to have 2 of arguably the greatest tennis players of all-time dueling each other at the same time with similar rankings (they were 1 and 2 for the longest time), but they've branded them differently enough to appeal to a wider audience. On one hand, you have Nadal, the physical, "brute", that does whatever it takes to win and at the same time, you have Federer, the maestro, preppy east-coaster except from Switzerland. Market them differently, make them appealing to different audience and bam, profit.
However, you have to realize that what they portray != who they are. That's I thing a huge problem in society today: too many people readily believe 100% of what the media throws at them and don't do some objective thinking to make decisions for themselves.
T
TennisandMusic
Guest
Don't ever change.
SoBad
G.O.A.T.
ssonosk
Semi-Pro
But Nadal plays safer tennis then Federer. Fed takes shots that the average player wouldn't touch. Nadal plays what he knows he can, and rarely goes for those eh shots.
vernonbc
Legend
Too bad you've missed this year's Wimbledon tournament. Rafa has been one of the most aggressive players making shots that leave the audience gasping and cheering. I saw some stats after the quarter finals that showed 20% of Rafa's shots are winners, the highest ratio of the remaining players. If you had been watching the matches, you'd have seen plenty of Nadal eh shots.
ViscaB
Hall of Fame
Not on grass. As the previous poster pointed out...
Still even if you play safe you have to have a good technique for getting the balls back into play deep and well spread as well. Many times after the 1st set yesterday Murray was running left right on shots that were not "winners".
Towser83
G.O.A.T.
Nadal can be a sore loser too, at least Federer is honest about how he feels though. I remember Federer and Nadal's reactions to losing to Del Potro at the US Open. Federer gives him full credit, but Nadal makes excuses for losing THREE matches in a row against Del Potro, saying it was more down to Nadal not playing well, coming back from injury etc. But people go with the sterotypes, and Nadal is the most humble human ever, no?
Nadal also takes MTO's when he's down in a match (which can be seen as gamesmanship, wherther true or not), exaggerates injuries, plays mind games by making out he is the underdog even if his opponent has one leg. All this has gotten worse with each passing year, so that I've gone off a guy I used to like a lot.
Ultimately, though it's down to the way they play. Federer is a more agressive player which is generally ore popular, and although Nadal does hit some incredible, breathtaking, jawdropping shots, you sometimes have to watch a lot of boring rallies to get to that, and his best shots often come when the other guy tries to force the issue, setting Nadal up with a pass or something. If Nadal plays a great player, he is forced into playing those great shots, if he isn't he's happy to slug it out at the baseline and wait for mistakes.
McEnroe was one of the biggest jerks on court but his style of play was so entertaining, people often didn't care that much.
IvanisevicServe
Banned
All right, perhaps. I still hate his game. I want to see winners and variety, and I want to see attractive ground strokes. There's absolutely nothing attractive about Nadal's game...IMO, anyway. I realize that's subjective.
vernonbc
Legend
Yep. And he'd be happy to tell you all that himself. In fact, I think I heard him saying exactly that in a press conference.
