Why is Indian Wells different?

Flint

Hall of Fame
Why does Indian Wells have the same number of rounds as a grand slam and the other masters have 1 less?
 
they need it because of the conditions, the play is error infested in the beginning to say the least, view the extra as a warm up round
 

jhhachamp

Hall of Fame
Because the ATP schedule allows them 2 weeks. Top players get a bye into the second round. Miami has the same format as well.
 
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monfed

Guest
Bc it's an amazing tournament :)
Don't you think both IW and Miami are tournaments that should be scrapped? I mean both tournaments lead to..the CLAY season? Seems pointless to me, might as well start with MC after maybe a couple 500s like Dubai and Rio or whatever?
 

jhhachamp

Hall of Fame
Don't you think both IW and Miami are tournaments that should be scrapped? I mean both tournaments lead to..the CLAY season? Seems pointless to me, might as well start with MC after maybe a couple 500s like Dubai and Rio or whatever?
The French Open is pretty far off and there are already plenty of warm up events for it on clay. I don't see any problem with having Miami and Indian Wells on hard courts in March.
 
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monfed

Guest
The French Open is pretty far off and there are already plenty of warm up events for it on clay. I don't see any problem with having Miami and Indian Wells on hard courts in March.
Sure. Why not move up the French Open and include a grass MS for Wimby OR just let this period b/w AO and MC serve as a rest period?
 

Mainad

Bionic Poster
Why does Indian Wells have the same number of rounds as a grand slam and the other masters have 1 less?
Miami has the same. Both are the only Masters tournaments to have a 96 man draw as opposed to 56 for everyone else.
 

jhhachamp

Hall of Fame
Sure. Why not move up the French Open and include a grass MS for Wimby OR just let this period b/w AO and MC serve as a rest period?
Not a bad idea, I would be in favor of moving up the French Open and having a real grass court season. Indian Wells and Miami can't just disappear though as they are two of the premier tournaments outside of the grand slams. You can't really move them to the summer either, as both locations get ridiculously hot in the summer.

So, the question becomes...what to do with Indian Wells and Miami?

One idea is to put the AO in late February and have Indian Wells and Miami in January to start off the season. These tournaments would be great in January and it is good to have a couple of hard court masters series before the AO. The only issue is that they are so far away from the AO, so there would need to be a few weeks in between.
 

spinovic

Hall of Fame
Or reverse their order and make Indian Wells a major. That would make the hard court season after Oz more meaningful, and fill in a little gap from Oz to RG.
It already has the largest stadium outside of Ashe, big money and the players love it.
 

imajica77

Professional
Don't you think both IW and Miami are tournaments that should be scrapped? I mean both tournaments lead to..the CLAY season? Seems pointless to me, might as well start with MC after maybe a couple 500s like Dubai and Rio or whatever?
Why don't we just scrap all the clay court tournaments. They aren't real tournaments anyways. This ridiculous statement is a ridiculous as yours. Only difference is I know mine is.
 
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monfed

Guest
What do you mean why? Replace them with what? They are the two highest paying tournaments outside the slams. What do you want to replace them with?
For me M1000 are tuneups for slams and nothing more. So that's why I want them gone, they add nothing of value to any of the slams. Just two MS tournaments just stuck in the schedule for no real purpose. Either trash them both and have no replacements to give the players rest OR replace them with a grass MS which I'd prescribed in my earlier post.

In short, what are two M1000 HC tournaments doing after the AO and BEFORE the clay season? What purpose do they serve besides ATP points?
 
Don't you think both IW and Miami are tournaments that should be scrapped? I mean both tournaments lead to..the CLAY season? Seems pointless to me, might as well start with MC after maybe a couple 500s like Dubai and Rio or whatever?
They shouldn't be scraped. The WTF is Worthless Tennis Fanfare, however, and should be abolished ASAP.
 
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Nathaniel_Near

Guest
I've always found the timing of IW and Miami to be gash, and it's also my least favourite part of the season.

I'd be more excited about them if the tennis calendar was rearranged so that they came before the Australian Open.
 

insideguy

Legend
For me M1000 are tuneups for slams and nothing more. So that's why I want them gone, they add nothing of value to any of the slams. Just two MS tournaments just stuck in the schedule for no real purpose. Either trash them both and have no replacements to give the players rest OR replace them with a grass MS which I'd prescribed in my earlier post.

In short, what are two M1000 HC tournaments doing after the AO and BEFORE the clay season? What purpose do they serve besides ATP points?

Ummm. To have players play in an area where people will watch them in nice facilities so they can make money? Honestly WTF are you talking about?
 

insideguy

Legend
I've always found the timing of IW and Miami to be gash, and it's also my least favourite part of the season.

I'd be more excited about them if the tennis calendar was rearranged so that they came before the Australian Open.

But it wont ever happen. The worst part of the season is after wimby when players go around playing weird clay tournaments in europe during the hardcourt season.
 
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Nathaniel_Near

Guest
But it wont ever happen. The worst part of the season is after wimby when players go around playing weird clay tournaments in europe during the hardcourt season.
True, there is that part of the season, but I prefer the 1000's there as they lead up to the US Open more logically. Tennis does feel dead for a while though after Wimbledon just as it does after the AO, which is why in my dreams the calendar would be somewhat rearranged.
 

insideguy

Legend
True, there is that part of the season, but I prefer the 1000's there as they lead up to the US Open more logically. Tennis does feel dead for a while though after Wimbledon just as it does after the AO, which is why in my dreams the calendar would be somewhat rearranged.
You cant play IW or Miami prior to Aussie. The weather would suck. You would have to move the Aussie. And we know that is not going to happen ever.
 
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Nathaniel_Near

Guest
You cant play IW or Miami prior to Aussie. The weather would suck. You would have to move the Aussie. And we know that is not going to happen ever.
Yes, I've alluded to all of this already (refer to 'in my dreams'). Logistically there are some obvious pitfalls...
 
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monfed

Guest
I've always found the timing of IW and Miami to be gash, and it's also my least favourite part of the season.

I'd be more excited about them if the tennis calendar was rearranged so that they came before the Australian Open.
Yea my thoughts exactly. If a lower ranked player wins it like say Dolgo or Gasquet or Tsonga then you feel like OK that was cool,nice to a see a young player win a MS. But if say Fed or Nole win it then you feel like "Ok they won but now what? It's the clay season now so who cares,won't matter for RG and someone already won the AO", know what I mean? Just feels abrupt and out of place for the slam contenders.
 

insideguy

Legend
Yea my thoughts exactly. If a lower ranked player wins it like say Dolgo or Gasquet or Tsonga then you feel like OK that was cool,nice to a see a young player win a MS. But if say Fed or Nole win it then you feel like "Ok they won but now what? It's the clay season now so who cares". Just feels abrupt and out of place for the slam contenders imo.
Thats how you feel. But many feel oh lord its the clay court season why do we care? The competetion sucks on clay. Hardcourt matches are more exciting because they are more unpredictable.
 

tacou

G.O.A.T.
For me M1000 are tuneups for slams and nothing more. So that's why I want them gone, they add nothing of value to any of the slams. Just two MS tournaments just stuck in the schedule for no real purpose. Either trash them both and have no replacements to give the players rest OR replace them with a grass MS which I'd prescribed in my earlier post.

In short, what are two M1000 HC tournaments doing after the AO and BEFORE the clay season? What purpose do they serve besides ATP points?
Well other players and fans feel differently, and these are two of the most sought after trophies and tennis, tourneys that have been won by the greats. These two tournaments don't lead up to nothing, they are LED UP TO. They are the conclusion of the first hard court season and they are great.

They actually make a decent segue into clay season as they are two of the slower hard courts on tour
 

insideguy

Legend
The weather is great in the winter in Indian Wells. I'm pretty sure Miami is great in the winter as well. What are you talking about?

Ummm the average night temp in Indian wells is 45 degrees in january. Thats the average meaning it gets below freezing alot. No one wants to sit and watch or play in that. Miami you could play. But its not even relevant because they WILL NEVER MOVE THE AUSSIE OPEN. So its a moot point.

I guess I dont understand the concern here. These are two of the biggest most well attended tournaments outside of the slams and the players and fans love them. They have great draws and all the players show up. How can people complain?
 

heninfan99

Talk Tennis Guru
The IW is an intriguing spectacle with Larry Ellison himself cheering on Nadal from the stands.

Seems the fans that make it to the practices really have a blast.

AND many of the top singles guys play doubles
 

marc45

G.O.A.T.
Especially Miami. Never winning the true fifth slam in terrible in a player resume.
way off, used to be...clearly IW has passed it and all the talk about a fifth major is with IW...talk actually has moved on to IW having the U.S. Open (Wertheim wrote about that today)

there is talk about making Miami a clay event now to distinguish it from IW

average trolling btw
 

insideguy

Legend
way off, used to be...clearly IW has passed it and all the talk about a fifth major is with IW...talk actually has moved on to IW having the U.S. Open (Wertheim wrote about that today)

there is talk about making Miami a clay event now to distinguish it from IW

average trolling btw
Never happen. There will never be four clay masters and thank god for that. The players would never allow that to happen.
 

OrangePower

Legend
For me M1000 are tuneups for slams and nothing more. So that's why I want them gone, they add nothing of value to any of the slams.
I don't understand how a fan of tennis could make such a statement. Don't you enjoy watching the top players play? Isn't that reason enough to like the M1000's, since outside of the slams they are the only opportunities to see all the top players against each other? And for those of us that enjoy watching live, getting to one of the four slams is not always achievable, so having M1000's in various places gives us more feasible opportunities to attend in person.
 

jussumman

Hall of Fame
This is what a major would look like if it was in a best of 3 set format. I like that they have such a big tournament that's fills that gap nicely.
 

bluetrain4

G.O.A.T.
Don't you think both IW and Miami are tournaments that should be scrapped? I mean both tournaments lead to..the CLAY season? Seems pointless to me, might as well start with MC after maybe a couple 500s like Dubai and Rio or whatever?
Ideally, they would be lead up Masters to the Australian Open. And, with the often soaring temps in the Australian summer, the AO could stand to be played, in terms of weather, in March. So, have IW and Miami during February and then the AO. Though, moving IW and Miami earlier, it might be better to have Miami first in terms of warm weather.

But, I doubt the AO would ever change the date. Taking place in the Australian summer with students out of school and people on vacation probably really benefits the tournament.

That said, I think they're fine as stand alone tournaments. There's enough time after they're finished to have a full clay season leading up to the FO.
 
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monfed

Guest
Ideally, they would be lead up Masters to the Australian Open. And, with the often soaring temps in the Australian summer, the AO could stand to be played, in terms of weather, in March. So, have IW and Miami during February and then the AO. Though, moving IW and Miami earlier, it might be better to have Miami first in terms of warm weather.

But, I doubt the AO would ever change the date. Taking place in the Australian summer with students out of school and people on vacation probably really benefits the tournament.

That said, I think they're fine as stand alone tournaments. There's enough time after they're finished to have a full clay season leading up to the FO.
That was a good read, informative and balanced.
 
So many lame fans on this board think that the tennis season should only consist of the Grand Slams, or that the Grand Slams are the only thing that matters.
 

Aonex

Semi-Pro
I think they're fine where they are, puts tennis on television in the few months between the Australian and French. However, if they were to be moved, I guess it would make the most sense to add them to the lead up to the US Open, although that period is pretty loaded as it is.
 

insideguy

Legend
I think they're fine where they are, puts tennis on television in the few months between the Australian and French. However, if they were to be moved, I guess it would make the most sense to add them to the lead up to the US Open, although that period is pretty loaded as it is.
Couldnt do IW leading up to open. The AVERAGE temp is 107 there during the summer. Players would die. That means it would be like 130 on court. IW is in the perfect spot on the schedule.
 

jhhachamp

Hall of Fame
Ummm the average night temp in Indian wells is 45 degrees in january. Thats the average meaning it gets below freezing alot. No one wants to sit and watch or play in that.
The average low is 45 degrees and the average high is 72 degrees in January and it usually nice and sunny. If you consider that bad weather, then I do not know what to say to you.
 

insideguy

Legend
The average low is 45 degrees and the average high is 72 degrees in January and it usually nice and sunny. If you consider that bad weather, then I do not know what to say to you.
If the average low is 45 then that means there are nights when it is below freezing. No one is going to watch that. The play night matches the whole tourney. Have you ever been in the desert at night in the winter? It aint tennis watching weather dude.
 

jhhachamp

Hall of Fame
If the average low is 45 then that means there are nights when it is below freezing. No one is going to watch that. The play night matches the whole tourney. Have you ever been in the desert at night in the winter? It aint tennis watching weather dude.
True, it does occasionally get below freezing in the middle of the night. However, the majority of matches would be played in very good weather. Matches are typically finished long before the low temperatures for the night are reached. I've been out camping in the desert during some pretty chilly nights.

I'm amazed at how spoiled tennis fans and people in California in general seem to be in regards to weather. People really wouldn't go watch a tennis match if it was 50 and sunny in the day and got down to 30 or 35 at night by the time matches were finished? All you need to do is put on a decent jacket and maybe some gloves and you are good to go. Football fans will watch a game during heavy snow and temperatures below 0 with high wind chills. I can understand how temperatures around freezing can be difficult for the players, as once the fingers start losing circulation it can be difficult, but for fans this should be a non issue.

Just FYI, I grew up in the northeast and now live out in California.
 
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