Why is it so hard to create a slippery multifilament?

[Dartagnan64]

It seems to me, if the advantage to poly is the low string-string friction enabling snapback and the advantage of multi is it's comfort, that someone would have clearly designed a string that had both snapback and comfort by now.

But all we get is soft polys that really aren't that comfy and muted multis with a coating that doesn't last that long.

It seems to me that there has to be a way to get this to work. I'm no chemist but it just seems surprising to me that we can't find that holy grail package with all the substances available.

I hear Triax is currently the closest thing but I've yet to try it out as it's pricey up here in Canada. I'll likely get a few packs next time I'm in the US (good luck with that) but I keep wondering why we can't get the best of both worlds and have to compromise.

 

[zipplock]

Maybe the multis notch too quickly and that's why they don't move and snap back. I string Velocity for a buddy and the string is super slippery. After hitting for less than hour the strings lock out even though they are still slick to the touch.

 

[esm]

Maybe the multis notch too quickly and that's why they don't move and snap back. I string Velocity for a buddy and the string is super slippery. After hitting for less than hour the strings lock out even though they are still slick to the touch.

Yep - was going to mention Velocity. I thought it was pretty slippery when I was stringing it last time (the black colour)

 

[Dartagnan64]

Yep - was going to mention Velocity. I thought it was pretty slippery when I was stringing it last time (the black colour)

that's in my racket right now and its neither slippery or notching at the moment. After a rally, the strings are all way out of place and I move them manually back into place.
So that coating doesn't last as long as the the strings last. On clay, it's about 3-4 hours before they no longer snapback to original position. Probably double that on hard court.

Normally multis break in my phantoms after 20-30 hours. So I'm shifting strings back for the majority of the strings life.

 

[nochuola]

This is just a guess, but maybe the comfort of multifillament comes from the fact that it is a bundle of thin fibers, while the slickness of poly comes from the fact that it is one solid extrusion (not a bunch of thin fibers). If this is true, the best you can do is to find a sweet spot in the middle by somewhat compromising the two properties, and it is impossible (or the technology haven't been discovered yet) to combine the two properties while maintaining the maximum of each property.

 

[Dartagnan64]

This is just a guess, but maybe the comfort of multifillament comes from the fact that it is a bundle of thin fibers, while the slickness of poly comes from the fact that it is one solid extrusion (not a bunch of thin fibers). If this is true, the best you can do is to find a sweet spot in the middle by somewhat compromising the two properties, and it is impossible (or the technology haven't been discovered yet) to combine the two properties while maintaining the maximum of each property.

Yet we have nylon monofilaments (syn gut) and they definitely still tend to gum up and stick out of place very quickly.

I think it would definitely have to be a coating of some sort over the filaments to provide the slippery factor. You'd think all the R&D into strings would be focused on the perfect coating. But people seem to be more inclined to research softening polys.

 

[1HBHfanatic]

@Dartagnan64
-here is the answer; a slick, non poly "cross string" that works with multis
-g.glyde is a UNIQUE ($$$) soft syn-gut of sorts

 

[Papa Mango]

It seems to me, if the advantage to poly is the low string-string friction enabling snapback and the advantage of multi is it's comfort, that someone would have clearly designed a string that had both snapback and comfort by now.

But all we get is soft polys that really aren't that comfy and muted multis with a coating that doesn't last that long.

It seems to me that there has to be a way to get this to work. I'm no chemist but it just seems surprising to me that we can't find that holy grail package with all the substances available.

I hear Triax is currently the closest thing but I've yet to try it out as it's pricey up here in Canada. I'll likely get a few packs next time I'm in the US (good luck with that) but I keep wondering why we can't get the best of both worlds and have to compromise.

Fourthing that Velocity is slippery with that damn coating.
I have to/do clean the clamps every time after I string it.

Triax is not slippery imho even before the notching. Slightly better durability but for playability I would go with NRG any day.

Which cross?

 

[Dartagnan64]

@Dartagnan64
-here is the answer; a slick, non poly "cross string" that works with multis
-g.glyde is a UNIQUE ($$$) soft syn-gut of sorts

Does it stay slippery or is it going to be another Velocity clone (or is Velocity a clone of gamma glide?)

 

[1HBHfanatic]

Does it stay slippery or is it going to be another Velocity clone (or is Velocity a clone of gamma glide?)

-it actually stays slippery, for a good while
-its a solid mono-core string (CLEAR in color), slick through out
-check out the info on it, several videos and reviews
-TW sells it, and now can buy haldpack!

 

[Dartagnan64]

Looks like gamma glide is essentially Teflon. Lots of mixed reviews so I'm not sure it's the answer.

 

[Papa Mango]

Looks like gamma glide is essentially Teflon. Lots of mixed reviews so I'm not sure it's the answer.

Just don't lick it.

 

[Crazy Finn]

Yep - was going to mention Velocity. I thought it was pretty slippery when I was stringing it last time (the black colour)

It's got a coating that makes it slick, but when it wears off in 1-8 hours depending on how you play, it's isn't slick at all. Still a good string, though.

Polys - being monofilaments, can be slippery just because of the material extruded to make the string. They don't need a coating, thus no coating to wear off.

Multis are literally strands of string woven together. The very nature of the structure of multis make them not slippery. Thus, they often have some sort of outer shell or coating to make them slippery or increase durability.

 

[blai212]

polys stop being slick after outer coating wears off but not as bad as nonpolys. @Papa Mango you could try NRG mains with gosen ak control CX cross which I heard was solid

 

[SinneGOAT]

It seems to me, if the advantage to poly is the low string-string friction enabling snapback and the advantage of multi is it's comfort, that someone would have clearly designed a string that had both snapback and comfort by now.

But all we get is soft polys that really aren't that comfy and muted multis with a coating that doesn't last that long.

It seems to me that there has to be a way to get this to work. I'm no chemist but it just seems surprising to me that we can't find that holy grail package with all the substances available.

I hear Triax is currently the closest thing but I've yet to try it out as it's pricey up here in Canada. I'll likely get a few packs next time I'm in the US (good luck with that) but I keep wondering why we can't get the best of both worlds and have to compromise.

I’m currently play testing Triax 16 in my blade, so far after 2 hours no strings moving out of place, which is good. Hopefully tomorrow I can get some heavier ground strokes rallies to really test it’s friction capabilities.

 

[Papa Mango]

polys stop being slick after outer coating wears off but not as bad as nonpolys. @Papa Mango you could try NRG mains with gosen ak control CX cross which I heard was solid

no more try for me for a little while. sticking with my gut/ypta combo for the next couple of months. Only trying to see how low can I go in tension.
And I don't usually string NRG for myself. too expensive for my taste as I break it ~4 hours.

 

[blai212]

no more try for me for a little while. sticking with my gut/ypta combo for the next couple of months. Only trying to see how low can I go in tension.
And I don't usually string NRG for myself. too expensive for my taste as I break it ~4 hours.

there’s a thread on gut/ak pro CX so therefore you must try it! also just started using babolat string savers in criss cross fashion a la federer, I feel like it helps reduce string to string friction

 

[esgee48]

Gamma Glide is one I would try. It is pricey though. You cannot make a string that is soft to impact and yet hard when something slides over it. The material characteristics are in conflict with each other. Velocity and NXT Control/Duo are examples where the coating makes the makes the string play harder than any noncoated counterpart. You need a material that is soft and slippery, which Glide is. I will say that if you hybrid, it would be less expensive to use Bab SpiralTek aka Bab SG now or Ashaway ZX. As crosses, these 2 strings maintain tension and are slippery thru out their string life.

 

[mpournaras]

Does it stay slippery or is it going to be another Velocity clone (or is Velocity a clone of gamma glide?)

It legit stays slippery. It used to be a 20 buck half set which was hilarious but its has come down I think. Maybe 10 bucks? There is a pretty strict ~$20/set price for all non gut strings that people start to say "but why" after.

One of my favorite hybrids ever whas Black Code 17 mains and Glide crosses (prestretched 5%) at 53#/56#

 

[travlerajm]

Go with fully manually prestretched ashaway Zx.
If you use it in the crosses only, then it’s totally reusable because it will never dent. You can use your favorite multi in the mains.

Zx stays more slippery than poly, but has a softer modulus than nylon multi.

 

[Papa Mango]

there’s a thread on gut/ak pro CX so therefore you must try it! also just started using babolat string savers in criss cross fashion a la federer, I feel like it helps reduce string to string friction

Well if I went with every thread created here then I will be trying strings forever... wait I already do that

Go with fully manually prestretched ashaway Zx.
If you use it in the crosses only, then it’s totally reusable because it will never dent. You can use your favorite multi in the mains.

Zx stays more slippery than poly, but has a softer modulus than nylon multi.

Here you go, I have a set of ZX sitting in my string drawer for the last 2 years that I have been meaning to try but who has the time for all that (pre)stretching

 

[Folsom_Stringer_Musa]

Go with fully manually prestretched ashaway Zx.
If you use it in the crosses only, then it’s totally reusable because it will never dent. You can use your favorite multi in the mains.

Zx stays more slippery than poly, but has a softer modulus than nylon multi.

ZX now comes in 1.15mm as well.
I will buy on a discount. Great string.

 

[blai212]

could also try slick copoly cross that maintains tension well at low tension. Volkl V star has a nice soft feel but not sure about tension maintenance/playability duration

 

[Rosstour]

@Dartagnan64
-here is the answer; a slick, non poly "cross string" that works with multis
-g.glyde is a UNIQUE ($$$) soft syn-gut of sorts

I was going to suggest this; wasn't sure if I was in over my head.

But I used this (moto/glyde) and it was great.

 

[Shroud]

no more try for me for a little while. sticking with my gut/ypta combo for the next couple of months. Only trying to see how low can I go in tension.
And I don't usually string NRG for myself. too expensive for my taste as I break it ~4 hours.

saw you are back using the bandit. Sad man sad. you hazzle the great Shroud but have that glass elbow...add some swing weight bro and get a bigger handle...

 

[Shroud]

that's in my racket right now and its neither slippery or notching at the moment. After a rally, the strings are all way out of place and I move them manually back into place.
So that coating doesn't last as long as the the strings last. On clay, it's about 3-4 hours before they no longer snapback to original position. Probably double that on hard court.

Normally multis break in my phantoms after 20-30 hours. So I'm shifting strings back for the majority of the strings life.

put in a whole pack of electrocrosses by babalot.

 

[kailash]

It seems to me, if the advantage to poly is the low string-string friction enabling snapback and the advantage of multi is it's comfort, that someone would have clearly designed a string that had both snapback and comfort by now.

But all we get is soft polys that really aren't that comfy and muted multis with a coating that doesn't last that long.

It seems to me that there has to be a way to get this to work. I'm no chemist but it just seems surprising to me that we can't find that holy grail package with all the substances available.

I hear Triax is currently the closest thing but I've yet to try it out as it's pricey up here in Canada. I'll likely get a few packs next time I'm in the US (good luck with that) but I keep wondering why we can't get the best of both worlds and have to compromise.

It's because of the inherent design; multi-filament strings are nothing but a collection of thin fibers.

Solution is the other way around; soft polys! Monofilament co-polyesters with softening additives. So many out there...Cream, Cyclone Tour, Sonic Pro, etc.

 

[Papa Mango]

saw you are back using the bandit. Sad man sad. you hazzle the great Shroud but have that glass elbow...add some swing weight bro and get a bigger handle...

edited
/hijack

 

[Dartagnan64]

It's because of the inherent design; multi-filament strings are nothing but a collection of thin fibers.

Solution is the other way around; soft polys! Monofilament co-polyesters with softening additives. So many out there...Cream, Cyclone Tour, Sonic Pro, etc.

Just still not soft enough. At least for me.

 

[travlerajm]

Just still not soft enough. At least for me.

Have you tried zx yet? It’s basically what you’re looking for.

 

[Dartagnan64]

Have you tried zx yet? It’s basically what you’re looking for.

No. Can't ever find it here in Canada.

I also here it loses tension fast without a prestretch and I'm not sure I could convince my stringer to pre-stretch it for me.

 

[graycrait]

@Folsom_Stringer_Musa , Have you used 18g Ashaway Supernick XL Micro in a tennis racket? If I could buy a set of 18g Ashaway Kevlar and a "tennis" set of Ashaway Supernick Micro XL I would just for fun. But I have to buy a 360' reel of each if I want to try this combo.

 

[Papa Mango]

No. Can't ever find it here in Canada.

I also here it loses tension fast without a prestretch and I'm not sure I could convince my stringer to pre-stretch it for me.

DM me your address and I'll mail a set to to you if the shipping is not prohibitive.
Then it is upto you to take a 6-pack to with the strings to your stringer.

 

[Dartagnan64]

DM me your address and I'll mail a set to to you if the shipping is not prohibitive.
Then it is upto you to take a 6-pack to with the strings to your stringer.

Well once I can cross the border again I can get all my strings from TW shipped to my California home. So thanks for the offer but I will get some next time I'm down there and give it a go. I actually think my California stringer sells it so he may know about the pre-stretch issue. My Vancouver stringer tends to just stock Luxilon, NXT, Excel, Biphase and RPM Blast. So he's always clueless when I bring him one of my weird brands.

 

[SinneGOAT]

Just did some heavy hitting with Triax, and I mean heavy! 3 hours, a few matches today and big top spin, loopy, hard shots and flat bangers, this string was fantastic. Strings never moved out of place, no notching after 9 hours overall and control was good. The real shocker was how much rotations I got for a multi. Granted it’s not crazy like hyper g or blast but it was really good.

 

[ron schaap]

Maybe the multis notch too quickly and that's why they don't move and snap back. I string Velocity for a buddy and the string is super slippery. After hitting for less than hour the strings lock out even though they are still slick to the touch.

you r right and thats why soft polys notch quickly too. sometimes a suitable multi or sgut hybrid with harder poly cross might help

 

[Folsom_Stringer_Musa]

@Folsom_Stringer_Musa , Have you used 18g Ashaway Supernick XL Micro in a tennis racket? If I could buy a set of 18g Ashaway Kevlar and a "tennis" set of Ashaway Supernick Micro XL I would just for fun. But I have to buy a 360' reel of each if I want to try this combo.

Nope. That looks like is for squash. Am I looking at the right string you mentioned?
Only string I tried of Ashaway was ZX Pro.

 

[Folsom_Stringer_Musa]

Just did some heavy hitting with Triax, and I mean heavy! 3 hours, a few matches today and big top spin, loopy, hard shots and flat bangers, this string was fantastic. Strings never moved out of place, no notching after 9 hours overall and control was good. The real shocker was how much rotations I got for a multi. Granted it’s not crazy like hyper g or blast but it was really good.

Great to hear that you liked it.
How about the feel and sound from the string - mushy or crispy?

 

[SinneGOAT]

Great to hear that you liked it.
How about the feel and sound from the string - mushy or crispy?

The sound was pretty good, and it wasn’t mushy nor crisp, great pop and feel. If I had to choose it was 55/56 crisp 44/45 mushy. Soft but not mushy. Definitely worth a try, but the spin was great. Definitely the best multi I’ve used for spin.

 

[graycrait]

@Folsom_Stringer_Musa , Like you the only ZX I have tried is both the 16G and ZX Pro the 17g. When ZX Pro gets a full prestretch it become nearly 18g and then after stringing a little thinner yet, like taffy. I think it would be fun to try 18G Ash Kev x 18G ZX (the Squash string), but in either case you can't buy sets, only half reels.

 

[Folsom_Stringer_Musa]

@Folsom_Stringer_Musa , Like you the only ZX I have tried is both the 16G and ZX Pro the 17g. When ZX Pro gets a full prestretch it become nearly 18g and then after stringing a little thinner yet, like taffy. I think it would be fun to try 18G ZX x 18G ZX (the Squash string), but in either case you can't buy sets, only half reels.

Interesting. 17G becomes 18G.
Did you do manual pre-stretch or from the machine?

 

[Folsom_Stringer_Musa]

@Folsom_Stringer_Musa , Like you the only ZX I have tried is both the 16G and ZX Pro the 17g. When ZX Pro gets a full prestretch it become nearly 18g and then after stringing a little thinner yet, like taffy. I think it would be fun to try 18G ZX x 18G ZX (the Squash string), but in either case you can't buy sets, only half reels.

What is the ideal tension to go with ZX Pro if I want to make it feel\play like NG?

 

[graycrait]

What is the ideal tension to go with ZX Pro if I want to make it feel\play like NG?

I never liked ZX fullbed. I have had and have several rackets strung with nat gut ot nat gut x poly. If you are using 16g Ash Kev x 17g ZX Pro I think a ref tension around 62/55 works fine unless it is an open OS racket. I'm going to string up a Pure Storm GT Tour tomorrow with 17g Babolat RPM Power x 17g ZX Pro around 52/52lbs.

 

[graycrait]

Did you do manual pre-stretch or from the machine?

I've stretched ZX a couple of ways but IMHO the best way is to anchor one end and pull it. I use a vise with sandpaper around about 1" of the ZX and then a small
C-clamp with sandpaper around 1" of the other end crank it down, wear long sleeves, gloves and glasses and pull it. (If during prestretching ZX comes loose it will whip through the air and has drawn blood from me when I wasn't taking precauctions. If you pull long enough and do pull slow,you can get permanent elongation beyond 20" on a half set. In comparision if you do that with Ash Kev you might get 1-2", but probably not that much. I have a winch I use for this on rare occasions where I can snap 16g Ash Kev if I am not careful and prestretching ZX is a breeze this way and I think I got nearly 28" of permanent elongation with the winch on ZX.
But then comes stringing the ZX. No matter how much permanent elongation I have gotten on ZX at the end of stringing the ZX as crosses I always get more than I started with. ZX has some strange properties.

 

[travlerajm]

Just want to emphasize that zx is so different from anything else out there. Yeah it takes a little more attention in prep before you string it, but it’s worth it once you figure out how to make it work for you.

It offers such unique properties that no other type of tennis string can really be compared to it.

 

[graycrait]

P.S. With my NEOS 1000 and Wise I have been happy with pulling tension on each Ash Kev main 3X and setting the pull rate on low for ZX. If I am stringing that stuff for someone else and only 2 locals use that combo, that method works for them satisfactorily. I generally use lower RA rackets and at my age Ash Kev x ZX in a low RA rackets requires more work out of me than I normally like, although I have a number of rackets strung with that stuff. Ash Kev x ZX sort of reminds me of a poly that is half way through its life, still playable, but you need to take full cuts with it. And it never dies until the Ash Kev saws itself through on the ZX.

I'm curious to string up RPM Power and ZX as a hybrid because both make that sound like a bow being drawn across untuned violin strings when you string it. So far those two strings are the only strings I have heard that from. I suspect RPM Power makes that noise because of its coating. ZX makes that noise because it is ZX.

 

[288bpsmodem]

@Dartagnan64
-here is the answer; a slick, non poly "cross string" that works with multis
-g.glyde is a UNIQUE ($$$) soft syn-gut of sorts

Late to this thread...Glad I'm not the only person on the planet who uses this. It's great. It stretches out tho so I would say 10% more than the mains always maybe even %15 more if mains are multis. I tried it with the moto it comes in some packs with and other polys but i totally think that combo sucked tho cause the poly went dead even faster than usual. For me that's under 10 hrs of playtime. It's better to go with a soft poly on the crosses that's slick and that will give you almost same snapback but way more control and it will help your poly mains not bottom out as fast. Pre stretched poly strings not strung loose I might wanna try.... I string my polys really low so yeah just didn't work.

With multis like Ocho Xp, Proffessional, NRG2 BiPhase I go to just below top of my tension guide on my racquet. Glide Cross a bit higher than top of tension guide. It's uncontrollable power if you don't.

Honestly GGlide work better with control multis tho Weiss Cannon 6supercharged, prince premier control, Wilson NXT control, I would guess triax also but I never tried that yet. Also want to try it with ashaway kevlar+. I got some crossfire zx coming in maybe I'll sub out the monogut zx in one of them.

 

[gold325]

[Delete]

 

[beltsman]

The real question is why can't we get affordable good quality natural gut, or a true gut alternative? What about a fusion of gut and synthetic materials?

 

[Shroud]

Well if I went with every thread created here then I will be trying strings forever... wait I already do that


Here you go, I have a set of ZX sitting in my string drawer for the last 2 years that I have been meaning to try but who has the time for all that (pre)stretching

you are welcome!