Why is MEP effective?

T

tennis3

Hall of Fame

I'm curious to hear people's thoughts on why MEP is able to win tennis matches? There are a lot of "pushers" out there that aren't any good. There are a lot of people with unorthodox strokes that break down. Why does MEP win against good players? I'd like to have the answers broken down into distinct parts to avoid confusion:

1) What is it about MEP's tactics that make him effective

2) What is it that MEP does "right" technically that makes him effective? Why don't his strokes break down? Be as specific as you can.

3) Any other factors you can think of

@GSG feel free to chime in if you'd like. I'd love to hear why you think you are effective
 
tennis3 said:

I'm curious to hear people's thoughts on why MEP is able to win tennis matches? There are a lot of "pushers" out there that aren't any good. There are a lot of people with unorthodox strokes that break down. Why does MEP win against good players? I'd like to have the answers broken down into distinct parts to avoid confusion:

1) What is it about MEP's tactics that make him effective

2) What is it that MEP does "right" technically that makes him effective? Why don't his strokes break down? Be as specific as you can.

3) Any other factors you can think of

@GSG feel free to chime in if you'd like. I'd love to hear why you think you are effective
Click to expand...

MEP puts the ball in uncomfortable positions. He moves the ball where the opponent isn’t. He doesn’t give much pace for his opponents to work with. He exploits the fact that recreational transition games and forward and backward movement tend to be weak. He lobs a lot which exploits the least practiced shot in tennis, the overhead.

There are not a lot of moving parts in his technique on every shot. The main thing his technique limits him in is generating power. Power is not that useful for someone whose main tactic is to put the ball in play many times.
 
"There are a lot of "pushers" out there that aren't any good."

All pushers are good and better [against their opponents] because by definition they are only pushers if they win. If they play the way they play and lose, they're simply bad players and not worthy of mentioning.

MEP is good because he keeps himself fit and is very fast with reaction and running. Do you think any players can be like MEP?
 
MyFearHand said:
MEP puts the ball in uncomfortable positions. He moves the ball where the opponent isn’t. He doesn’t give much pace for his opponents to work with. He exploits the fact that recreational transition games and forward and backward movement tend to be weak. He lobs a lot which exploits the least practiced shot in tennis, the overhead.

There are not a lot of moving parts in his technique on every shot. The main thing his technique limits him in is generating power. Power is not that useful for someone whose main tactic is to put the ball in play many times.
Click to expand...
This. Just because its not huge power with lots topspin doesn't mean he isn't good.
 
tennis3 said:

I'm curious to hear people's thoughts on why MEP is able to win tennis matches? There are a lot of "pushers" out there that aren't any good. There are a lot of people with unorthodox strokes that break down. Why does MEP win against good players? I'd like to have the answers broken down into distinct parts to avoid confusion:

1) What is it about MEP's tactics that make him effective

2) What is it that MEP does "right" technically that makes him effective? Why don't his strokes break down? Be as specific as you can.

3) Any other factors you can think of

@GSG feel free to chime in if you'd like. I'd love to hear why you think you are effective
Click to expand...
I mean like the first point his opponent hit him two passive ass loopy forehands and then decided to try a weak dropshot off the short ball instead of blasting a free ad court winner. He still gets the point but if that is indicative of mindset it explains a lot as it is playing right into the strengths of pushing and ball retrieving.
 
tennis3 said:
What is it that MEP does "right" technically that makes him effective? Why don't his strokes break down?
Click to expand...
His strokes are extremely compact, totally ‘contact oriented’ ie his forward swing happens very close to contact including his serve. When you wanted to drive a tiny nail with a hammer how big would your take back and forward swing be?
 
zill said:
lower level, ok.
Click to expand...
Lower level shots, top level compactness. He’s even realised early on that kinetic chain is bs! It should all be arm and racket. He’s driving nails precisely into spots. Who uses kinetic chain while using a hammer? That would look ridiculous! :D
He would make it more compact if he could like instead of pure arming he’d forearm or wrist only but you can of course make it compact only so much !
 
Curious said:
Lower level shots, top level compactness. He’s even realised early on that kinetic chain is bs! It should all be arm and racket. He’s driving nails precisely into spots. Who uses kinetic chain while using a hammer? That would look ridiculous! :D
He would make it more compact if he could like instead of pure arming he’d forearm or wrist only but you can of course make it compact only so much !
Click to expand...
The thing is he is not even aware of his own compactness. He just does what is most natural to him to win the match.
 
Last edited:
zill said:
The thing is he is not even aware of his own compactness. He just does what is most natural to him to win the match.
Click to expand...
Probably. It’s just evolved based on his focus on placement and consistency I suspect. I think he mentioned in one of the videos that he was hitting with higher level players at the beginning and he was trying everything to keep the ball in to be able to play with them. Something like that. I on the contrary tried to learn the ‘proper way to hit’ from day one, still trying after 10 years! :D
 
Bill Lobsalot said:
Better players adjust their game to try and out MEP, MEP. It almost always fails.
Click to expand...

Yes the only way to beat MEP is to out hit him or hit through him.


The player in the white hat on the next court opposite end to @Curious starting at 1:30 is an MEP of sorts with more proper technique though relatively. Lost the first set terribly trying to toy with him hitting slower balls which is not my natural game. He ended up toying with me and won 6 straight games to win it 6-2. Second set I hit more aggressive heavier topspin balls which forced him to hit proper balls back also (no crazy angles, drop shots etc). Won the match in a super tie break.
 
Last edited:
MyFearHand said:
MEP puts the ball in uncomfortable positions. He moves the ball where the opponent isn’t. He doesn’t give much pace for his opponents to work with. He exploits the fact that recreational transition games and forward and backward movement tend to be weak. He lobs a lot which exploits the least practiced shot in tennis, the overhead.

There are not a lot of moving parts in his technique on every shot. The main thing his technique limits him in is generating power. Power is not that useful for someone whose main tactic is to put the ball in play many times.
Click to expand...
this, plus...
it's actually easier to receive pace from a basher who doesn't have directional control... so due to the pace, the ball tends to travel through the center more, and often lands short, and at the perfect height...
when receiving no pace balls, even if you had a great stroke, it requires a high level/volume of footwork to get the precise spacing to execute... many folks (me included) don't have the footwork and/or conditioning to execute the footwork over 2-3h

attacking the net (for me anyway) is often the right solution to beat pushers... but it also presumes (a) i've practiced approach shots from the mid court (b) practiced volleys (high/low/lunging/etc...) (c) practiced overheads (d) decently conditioned to explosively attack the net for 2h+... most singles players i encounter are counter punchers/retrievers from the baseline (very rare to come across ones that are comfortable coming to net... and when i do encounter them, they are usually high 4.5+)

and finally for the counter punchers/retrievers that can beat a mep, they are usually high 4.5+ they are as fit/consistent as mep, but can also hit high&heavy, and move him back, and side to side, until he's unbalanced and eventually hits a short ball that can be used to approach on, and finished comfortably at net with volley/oh (over and over again)

to me mep is a rec version of fabrice santoro... unorthodox strokes, unorthodox placement, no pace, weak serve... (by atp standards), but capable of beating the biggest bashers (santoro has a 7 and 2 record against the mighty safin - who was a monster hitter that won 2 gs (ao, uso))... the "magician" is one of my favorite players of all time :)

my .02
 
nyta2 said:
this, plus...
it's actually easier to receive pace from a basher who doesn't have directional control... so due to the pace, the ball tends to travel through the center more, and often lands short, and at the perfect height...
when receiving no pace balls, even if you had a great stroke, it requires a high level/volume of footwork to get the precise spacing to execute... many folks (me included) don't have the footwork and/or conditioning to execute the footwork over 2-3h

attacking the net (for me anyway) is often the right solution to beat pushers... but it also presumes (a) i've practiced approach shots from the mid court (b) practiced volleys (high/low/lunging/etc...) (c) practiced overheads (d) decently conditioned to explosively attack the net for 2h+... most singles players i encounter are counter punchers/retrievers from the baseline (very rare to come across ones that are comfortable coming to net... and when i do encounter them, they are usually high 4.5+)

and finally for the counter punchers/retrievers that can beat a mep, they are usually high 4.5+ they are as fit/consistent as mep, but can also hit high&heavy, and move him back, and side to side, until he's unbalanced and eventually hits a short ball that can be used to approach on, and finished comfortably at net with volley/oh (over and over again)

to me mep is a rec version of fabrice santoro... unorthodox strokes, unorthodox placement, no pace, weak serve... (by atp standards), but capable of beating the biggest bashers (santoro has a 7 and 2 record against the mighty safin - who was a monster hitter that won 2 gs (ao, uso))... the "magician" is one of my favorite players of all time :)

my .02
Click to expand...

Interesting, didn't know that.
 
optic yellow said:
Why has not a single person acknowledged how stupidly his opponent played the first point in that video?

Edit: nvm @ey039524 you chill
Click to expand...
Against mep, you have to be able to close on short balls and angle them off the court (beyond singles sideline), or be able to close the net for a volley/overhead.

This guy couldn't volley.

If you get into dinking/cat and mouse points w MEP, and you don't have the touch/play angles, you're going to lose.

If it were me, I'd approach to his backhand and finish the point at the net w a volley/overhead. His BH has no topspin.
 
ey039524 said:
Against mep, you have to be able to close on short balls and angle them off the court (beyond singles sideline), or be able to close the net for a volley/overhead.

This guy couldn't volley.

If you get into dinking/cat and mouse points w MEP, and you don't have the touch/play angles, you're going to lose.

If it were me, I'd approach to his backhand and finish the point at the net w a volley/overhead. His BH has no topspin.
Click to expand...
kunos said:
MEP and players like MEP ask a very simple question:

Are you able to play more winners than mistakes on low nothingballs?
And the answer for most people seem to be "nope, apparently I can't".
Click to expand...
See this is why I think I would smash the **** out of him assuming I am something close to performing well on the day.
 
tennis3 said:

I'm curious to hear people's thoughts on why MEP is able to win tennis matches? There are a lot of "pushers" out there that aren't any good. There are a lot of people with unorthodox strokes that break down. Why does MEP win against good players? I'd like to have the answers broken down into distinct parts to avoid confusion:

1) What is it about MEP's tactics that make him effective

2) What is it that MEP does "right" technically that makes him effective? Why don't his strokes break down? Be as specific as you can.

3) Any other factors you can think of

@GSG feel free to chime in if you'd like. I'd love to hear why you think you are effective
Click to expand...
Placement, endurance, speed, consistency in that order.
 
optic yellow said:
See this is why I think I would smash the **** out of him assuming I am something close to performing well on the day.
Click to expand...

Some of the court level view of his matches also shows that he varies the speed along with the depth. His weakness is the lack of a good net game but from the baseline he has directional control and change of speed.

If you go in thinking he is just going to give you slow off speed junk and wait for your mistakes, you are in for a rude awakening. He forces many of those mistakes.
 
mcs1970 said:
Some of the court level view of his matches also shows that he varies the speed along with the depth. His weakness is the lack of a good net game but from the baseline he has directional control and change of speed.

If you go in thinking he is just going to give you slow off speed junk and wait for your mistakes, you are in for a rude awakening. He forces many of those mistakes.
Click to expand...
Is there a point is this video that you think really shows this?
 
Who usually does more running in a MEP match? Him or his opponent?

Who usually controls the court and controls the point, him or his opponent?

When his opponent takes control of a point (say with a nice penatrating topspin shot), what does MEP usually do? What does his opponent usually do (do they take advantage of the opening they create)?
 
Last edited:
Curious said:
His strokes are extremely compact, totally ‘contact oriented’ ie his forward swing happens very close to contact including his serve. When you wanted to drive a tiny nail with a hammer how big would your take back and forward swing be?
Click to expand...
Would you say that his racquet face angle is fairly consistent / predictable when he hits the ball? It's not changing a lot as he swings? Increasing the probability that he will hit the shot he wants?
 
What do you guys think of the type of ball he hits? Is it pretty flat? Does it have spin? If so, what type of spin? Is it usually the same, predictable spin, or does he hit a variety of spins? Is it pretty easy or hard for his opponent to hit the type of ball they want off his ball? Is there something about the type of ball he hits that makes topspin shots hard to hit with consistency?
 
How about his court positioning? Does he recover to good spots so he can defend against his opponents best shot options (and is his opponent constantly aware of MEP's court position)? Or does he leave a lot of open court for his opponent to hit into and get in trouble? Leaving his opponent with pretty easy opportunities for winners without his opponent having to take a lot of risk?

Assuming you think he recovers to cover the court well, how does he do it?
 
How about "match rhythm"? Do his opponents usually get into a good rhythm and look comfortable when they play MEP? How about MEP's rhythm when he's playing? Does he look comfortable or uncomfortable?

Are his opponents normally able to play "their game" throughout the match? Or do they change their style (to something they don't often play)? How about MEP, does his opponent force him to change his style?
 
Last edited:
Airspun said:
What does MEP mean?
Click to expand...
This should be a Jeopardy question ...

Of course this has been correctly answered already ... What is "Most Exhausting Player" ... correct answer.

But what are some other possibilities ?

Most Exhausted Player
Most Exhilarating Player
Most Effective Player
Most Energetic Player
Most Entertaining Player
Most Enigmatic Player

.... and of course you can substitute "Pusher" for "Player" if you want to double up.

Have some fun with it!
 
Last edited:
tennis3 said:
How about "match rhythm"? Do his opponents usually get into a good rhythm and look comfortable when they play MEP? How about MEP's rhythm when he's playing? Does he look comfortable or uncomfortable?

Are his opponents normally able to play "their game" throughout the match? Or do they change their style (to something they don't often play)? How about MEP, does his opponent force him to change his style?
Click to expand...
Are all your posts rhetorical or meant to be answered seriously?
 
optic yellow said:
Is there a point is this video that you think really shows this?
Click to expand...


Look at the point that starts at 15:30 in the match against Trav. GSG comes to the net. At that point from the same motion he has a dink shot or a deep shot.

Trav guesses dink and GSG goes deep. From that moment GSG has seized control of the point and a few strokes later Trav has lost the point. GSG does that time and again. Same motion a shallow shot or a deep shot.

You never know what you are going to get because he doesn’t have a backswing at all and doesn’t telegraph the shot in any way. With that placement , deception, and fitness, he cannot be easy to play agaunst. You need solid strokes and a net game to beat him
 
tennis3 said:
How about "match rhythm"? Do his opponents usually get into a good rhythm and look comfortable when they play MEP? How about MEP's rhythm when he's playing? Does he look comfortable or uncomfortable?

Are his opponents normally able to play "their game" throughout the match? Or do they change their style (to something they don't often play)? How about MEP, does his opponent force him to change his style?
Click to expand...
I like how u put it "match rhythm".

MEP is much better in reaction n movements so it does make him look like he's in the rhythm of the game.

Long Pants just wastes alot of energy with crouching low & huge big swing with ineffective strokes.

For that kind of power and placement, a bunty, mep type of fh, bh surely can achieve the same results while saving player a ton of energy.

That's why MEP came out on top in long run
 
mcs1970 said:

Look at the point that starts at 15:30 in the match against Trav. GSG comes to the net. At that point from the same motion he has a dink shot or a deep shot.

Trav guesses dink and GSG goes deep. From that moment GSG has seized control of the point and a few strokes later Trav has lost the point. GSG does that time and again. Same motion a shallow shot or a deep shot.

You never know what you are going to get because he doesn’t have a backswing at all and doesn’t telegraph the shot in any way. With that placement , deception, and fitness, he cannot be easy to play agaunst. You need solid strokes and a net game to beat him
Click to expand...
Okay yeah I watched the first two games at the beginning and then 5-7 points after where you told me to start and realize I did not appreciate the effortlessness with which he hides the depth on his FH slice. That is truly a weapon, and one I can appreciate deeply given my own pride in hitting disguised groundstroke droppers. I will revise my estimation from "stomp the **** out of" to "have a reasonable chance to win". I wish I had the money to arbitrarily fly to Atlanta because I'm damn curious how it would actually go.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

J
Effective 2nd serve---What is the most important element?
Replies
12
Views
2K
Bungalo Bill
Bungalo Bill
G
Using a Ball Machine to Gain Valued Benefits
Replies
26
Views
640
SystemicAnomaly
SystemicAnomaly
rk_sports
Why a pro player struggles?
Replies
9
Views
996
jwr1972
jwr1972
L
Pretty and Perfect vs. Effective and Realistic
Replies
24
Views
1K
coupergear
C
K
Ball speed threshold and why pushing work
Replies
11
Views
1K
ktncnttl
K
Back
Top