Why is MEP effective?

I won't argue it. If you think you can "hit through" MEP, go for it. I'm pretty sure I can't.

If I can't win the point at net, I'll keep in good court position and not hit myself into bad court position (not to mention the errors and the frustration).
I don't think I can hit through as much as I think I can hit around. Still more winning with placement than pure pace, but pace is an element of it. That said as you point out, the correct strategy for how to win is dependent on an individual player's strengths, comforts, and playstyle. You clearly fear the stamina side less than other people do.
 
Sometimes I’ve played tough 4.5 computer rated singles players who hit with little pace/spin, but are effective to win enough to stay at that level because of the following:

- They place the ball very accurately on both serves and ground strokes including when hitting on the run - extremely close to the sidelines. They rarely hit into the suicide zone in the middle third of the court unless it is a deliberate short shot or very deep.
- They hit the ball early on the rise and take time away from me without hitting too hard - others who hit harder hit the ball from deeper behind the baseline and actually give me more time to react.
- Thye are tactically astute and adjust to maximize my weaknesses and minimize my strengths. When I adjust my serve/return/shot target strategy, they make counter-adjustments quickly.
- They use the vertical depth of the court well using slice and make me run up/down a lot also in addition to laterally - older players like me struggle more with this than moving laterally. They are adept at creating open space with short shots (angles, dropshots).
- They lob well and can also hit accurate 2-shot passes even if it is not at high speed by utilizing their accuracy.
- They are very competitive and stable players mentally who hate to lose. They have the discipline to stay in reasonable physical shape for their age if they play a lot of singles so that they can defend well and win a lot.

While I have watched only about 10 mins of MEP/GSG play on video (hurt my eyes:happydevil:), I can see that he has a lot of those characteristics. People who are underestimating him will likely lose a lot to him unless they are high 4.5 players. I don’t mention shot tolerance above because almost all 4.5+ players have good shot tolerance for that level of opponent, but it would be a big differentiator in addition against lower level players.

The sad thing about MEP’s fame is that he is giving too many rec players hope that they can play in an unconventional way like him without taking lessons and become strong 4.5s. The reality is that he is famous because he is a rec player ‘unicorn’ for the strong 4.5 level and 90% of players at that level have conventional textbook technique. The easiest way to get to that level is to get long-term coaching and develop textbook technique instead of hoping to have the same mental, emotional, competitive and athletic skills that MEP possesses.
 
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There's this guy in my amateur league with prettier strokes than MEP but he has a moonbally one hander and a surprisingly precise waiter tray serve with good pace. I would also say his style is similar to MEP. It's exhausting to play him. I'm 1-2 against him.

Tactics aside, you have to mentally prepare for a battle. There's seldom a free point. You can't blast winners every point because these guys are masters with placement and consistency. It's harder than it looks to hit through these guys. It's also not that easy to attack the net. Video's don't show the full picture.
 
And the 12 year old too,

The 12 year old will beat many here who feel they can beat MEP.

The essential tennis guys got everything on their terms. I would have loved for them to go outdoors in the heat and play d MEP. They probably still win but just as I mentioned about Trav if he played in conditions favorable for him, it would have been a lot more competitive.
 
The easiest way to get to that level is to get long-term coaching and develop textbook technique instead of hoping to have the same mental, emotional, competitive and athletic skills that MEP possesses.

Coaching gets people to reach their max potential and nothing more.

However, this is such a naive and false analysis based on flat out wrong assumptions and misdirected judgement.
If everyone follows what's described here, the chances of them getting to 4.5 remains the same as before. It's a competition to get to 4.5 and only one winner out of 4.0 to become 4.5. It does not matter how good the losers are and how much coaching they received.
The flat earthers are a thing.
 
I think cuz rec players below 5.0 don’t have an effective serve. Need good placement and spin, to get a weak reply. If MEP returns deep floater, and you don’t volley it away, then you’re in for a long rally. Just make him run and get weak replies. If he hits deep junk ball, then just keep trying. It’s a balance of going big vs safe neutral.
 
The 12 year old will beat many here who feel they can beat MEP.

The essential tennis guys got everything on their terms. I would have loved for them to go outdoors in the heat and play d MEP. They probably still win but just as I mentioned about Trav if he played in conditions favorable for him, it would have been a lot more competitive.
Winners win because they are better.
The victimhood mentality is a choice and not a forced situation.
 
Winners win because they are better.
The victimhood mentality is a choice and not a forced situation.

Yeah I guess Nadal should not have had any special advantage on clay courts because as per you there is no such thing as conditions and courts favoring one player over the other.
 
I like unapologetic and fact based arguments based on merit.
Both competitors deserve appreciation and admiration. But to make apologies for not reaching the bar is not being respectful to the entire situation.
Comparative advantage is a fact based argument.
Rock and a hard place? If you listen, they nitpcik for not posting a video and assume you are just a non playing poster.
You can assume that if you want but I thought you valued fact based arguments?
 
Sometimes I’ve played tough 4.5 singles players who hit with little pace/spin, but are effective
For the life of me I just don't know how that feels.

I have never run into a litte pace hitter that I lost to! I'm so entrenched with the belief that sports are all about speeds.

Currently I play with 3 players. Generally they only beat me by outpacing my running! Meaning, they hit the ball far away and fast enough that I fail to get my racket on or get it on in a meaningful way.

I'm a little bit like @optic yellow in that I doubt I would lose handily to MEP. :) But unlike Optic, I know better to speculate or debate on here.

It looks sad when MEP's opponents could get to the ball comfortably but lose to MEP :)
 
Yeah I guess Nadal should not have had any special advantage on clay courts because as per you there is no such thing as conditions and courts favoring one player over the other.

Quite a few players excel on clay courts, he won many titles because he was better than other "clay courtiers". And also clay didn't favor him, he is just a better player on clay.
I repeat and it's worth repeating, victimhood is a choice.
 
Quite a few players excel on clay courts, he won many titles because he was better than other "clay courtiers". And also clay didn't favor him, he is just a better player on clay.
I repeat and it's worth repeating, victimhood is a choice.

Haha. So he was not the favorite? If he was better why was he not the favorite always on grass courts?
 
For the life of me I just don't know how that feels.

I have never run into a litte pace hitter that I lost to! I'm so entrenched with the belief that sports are all about speeds.

Currently I play with 3 players. Generally they only beat me by outpacing my running! Meaning, they hit the ball far away and fast enough that I fail to get my racket on or get it on in a meaningful way.

I'm a little bit like @optic yellow in that I doubt I would lose handily to MEP. :) But unlike Optic, I know better to speculate or debate on here.

It looks sad when MEP's opponents could get to the ball comfortably but lose to MEP :)
I know better too but I enjoy arguing on the internet way too much to restrain myself.

You last sentence expresses exactly how I feel.
 
Comparative advantage is a fact based argument.

You can assume that if you want but I thought you valued fact based arguments?
I can assume you are trolling everyone. Im not sure why they are even engaging you. You play with 1 guy at 5pm in hot humid conditions in July apparently. You havent played any leagues nor did you answer Travs question about where you reside. And you would never post a video of yourself playing. How are people even taking you seriously?

your entire story is BS. Want to know how I know? I live in Houston. Only a total dumbass would play at 5pm in July here.
 
I can assume you are trolling everyone. Im not sure why they are even engaging you. You play with 1 guy at 5pm in hot humid conditions in July apparently. You havent played any leagues nor did you answer Travs question about where you reside. And you would never post a video of yourself playing. How are people even taking you seriously?

your entire story is BS. Want to know how I know? I live in Houston. Only a total dumbass would play at 5pm in July here.
I said midday in July and 5PM in August, and also said NW US, which would suggest I am not in Houston...
 
I said midday in July and 5PM in August, and also said NW US, which would suggest I am not in Houston...
Which suggests youre not playing anywhere near the same conditions as MEP. So your midday training means nothing. Now wheres that video of you playing your 1 partner over and over again?
 
Which suggests youre not playing anywhere near the same conditions as MEP. So your midday training means nothing. Now wheres that video of you playing your 1 partner over and over again?
I don't really understand why you think I'm obligated to provide video of me playing tennis because of your irrational belief I am making up what I am saying.
 
I can assume you are trolling everyone. Im not sure why they are even engaging you. You play with 1 guy at 5pm in hot humid conditions in July apparently. You havent played any leagues nor did you answer Travs question about where you reside. And you would never post a video of yourself playing. How are people even taking you seriously?

your entire story is BS. Want to know how I know? I live in Houston. Only a total dumbass would play at 5pm in July here.
In Seattle, we call 5pm in July “prime time.”
 
Haha. So he was not the favorite? If he was better why was he not the favorite always on grass courts?

I'm interested in players who win and why they win. Why someone does not win and all the excuses and reasons don't interest me that much and it's for loosers to dwell on and figure out. If you like to give them company while they are at it, power to you (or not).

Struggles of winners are more interesting than victimhood self flogging stories.

If you want to know why MEP won against some forum posters and lost againt ET guys, I have a question. Can you handle the truth? MEP has efficient and consistent strokes that can withstand daily temperature variations.
 
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I don't really understand why you think I'm obligated to provide video of me playing tennis because of your irrational belief I am making up what I am saying.
Yes, im the irrational one here. Keep talking. Why stop at MEP? Tell us about how you would beat Karue? Or Giron? Or lets go straight to the top and you tell us how you are capable of beating Alcaraz. Whats your game plan there? Im sure your 1 opponent has prepared you well.

Youre an amusing troll. I still cant figure out why everyone in this thread has humored you for the last 4 days. But yes, seattle heat and 1 unranked regular partner and youre ready to take on everyone. And you just wish you had the money to fly to Atlanta to take on MEP. Thats the only thing stopping you.

Can you tell us how you jogging with your wife has prepared you to qualify for the US track team? Or playing catch with your brother has given you the skills to beat out Metcalf and Lockett for starting WR on the Seahawks? Are you really Jaxon Smith Njigba in disguise? OMG! Can we all have your autograph please!?!?
 
I'm interested in players who win and why they win. Why someone does not win and all the excuses and reasons don't interest me that much and it's for loosers to dwell on and figure out. If you like to give them company while they are at it, power to you (or not).

Struggles of winners are more interesting than victimhood self flogging stories.

If you want to know why MEP won against some forum posters and lost againt ET guys, I have a question. Can you handle the truth? MEP has efficient and consistent strokes that can withstand daily temperature variations.

When you make silly arguments and double down on it like there is no such thing as certain conditions helping certain players, you end up tripping over yourself like you did. Now I see that you are trying to distance yourself from that. So be truthful enough to admit your own illogical arguments first.

Then on top of it you kept doubling down on how I or anyone claimed that the ET guys would lose in Atl or Trav would win in Seattle. Another fiction or lie on your part. All I said was when two solid 4.5 guys play each other it would be good if both played each other in conditions that suited them before we say definitively that trav sucks or MEP got his rear kicked by “real 4.5s” ( not saying you said that but that’s what I was responding to when you strangely jumped in with attacks and arguments that made no sense, which you yourself now seem to have realized).
 
When you make silly arguments and double down on it like there is no such thing as certain conditions helping certain players, you end up tripping over yourself like you did. Now I see that you are trying to distance yourself from that. So be truthful enough to admit your own illogical arguments first.

Then on top of it you kept doubling down on how I or anyone claimed that the ET guys would lose in Atl or Trav would win in Seattle. Another fiction or lie on your part. All I said was when two solid 4.5 guys play each other it would be good if both played each other in conditions that suited them before we say definitively that trav sucks or MEP got his rear kicked by “real 4.5s” ( not saying you said that but that’s what I was responding to when you strangely jumped in with attacks and arguments that made no sense, which you yourself now seem to have realized).

"silly arguments" , "tripping over yourself", "distancing yourself", "illogical arguments" - victimhood coupled with extreme anger, eh?
You may not realize it, but you have fully engaged in straw-man arguments with the mind set of an angered victim . You just can't handle the truth - par for the course.
 
"silly arguments" , "tripping over yourself", "distancing yourself", "illogical arguments" - victimhood coupled with extreme anger, eh?
You may not realize it, but you have fully engaged in straw-man arguments with the mind set of an angered victim . You just can't handle the truth - par for the course.
strawman. Lol. The usual cliche terms when you indulge in silly arguments, lies, and then try to save face. Better luck next time buddy.
 
I’ll be back Seattle starting tomorrow. If optic yellow is in the area and wants to take on the tragic failure of “Seattle MEP” I’ll be happy to oblige for fun.
Please post a vid of this ‘match’. I use that term lightly as I dont think this will be much of a contest.
 
I interrupt this thread to announce that the guy sitting in my row on the plane next to me for the flight from Miami to Seattle by coincidence is the person who inflicted the first double bagel of my rec career more than 35 years ago.

He was coming back from Jamaica where his son played a junior tourney.
 
I interrupt this thread to announce that the guy sitting in my row on the plane next to me for the flight from Miami to Seattle by coincidence is the person who inflicted the first double bagel of my rec career more than 35 years ago.

He was coming back from Jamaica where his son played a junior tourney.

despite his crimes on the tennis court, hope he was allowed to remain seated until the plane landed. Did you ever play him again? What's the H2H?
 
Haven't read the comments but why are people surprised? Just seems like a fine player. Go to other countries you'll see nationally ranked pushers bending you over for a kabob and court time lol
 
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despite his crimes on the tennis court, hope he was allowed to remain seated until the plane landed. Did you ever play him again? What's the H2H?
In my first organized match of any kind, he unleashed an American twist serve as a nationally ranked junior and surrendered maybe 2 total points to me the beginner.

30 years later, I played him in practice singles match indoors, and he came from behind to defeat me 7-6. Afterward he apologized for double-bageling me when I told him about it. But I got revenge in doubles friendly the next week.
 
I interrupt this thread to announce that the guy sitting in my row on the plane next to me for the flight from Miami to Seattle by coincidence is the person who inflicted the first double bagel of my rec career more than 35 years ago.

He was coming back from Jamaica where his son played a junior tourney.
How in the world did you put two and two together?
 
I interrupt this thread to announce that the guy sitting in my row on the plane next to me for the flight from Miami to Seattle by coincidence is the person who inflicted the first double bagel of my rec career more than 35 years ago.

He was coming back from Jamaica where his son played a junior tourney.
I wonder how many guys that have inflicted bagels on a player for him to have this chance of running into one on a plane?
 

I'm curious to hear people's thoughts on why MEP is able to win tennis matches? There are a lot of "pushers" out there that aren't any good. There are a lot of people with unorthodox strokes that break down. Why does MEP win against good players? I'd like to have the answers broken down into distinct parts to avoid confusion:

1) What is it about MEP's tactics that make him effective

2) What is it that MEP does "right" technically that makes him effective? Why don't his strokes break down? Be as specific as you can.

3) Any other factors you can think of

@GSG feel free to chime in if you'd like. I'd love to hear why you think you are effective
His number one strength is consistency and his great conditioning. Just his consistency alone will beat most rec players.
 
I’ll be back Seattle starting tomorrow. If optic yellow is in the area and wants to take on the tragic failure of “Seattle MEP” I’ll be happy to oblige for fun.
In Seattle, we call 5pm in July “prime time.”
^

To answer your question, I am a few hours south of you, just outside of Portland. Obviously would be interested to play so I'll get to work thinking of a secondary justification for the drive time. Or if you find yourself for any reason heading down here, let me know.
 
I'm interested in players who win and why they win. Why someone does not win and all the excuses and reasons don't interest me that much and it's for loosers to dwell on and figure out. If you like to give them company while they are at it, power to you (or not).

Struggles of winners are more interesting than victimhood self flogging stories.

If you want to know why MEP won against some forum posters and lost againt ET guys, I have a question. Can you handle the truth? MEP has efficient and consistent strokes that can withstand daily temperature variations.
You can't have figuring out why someone does win if you don't look at why someone doesn't win. These things are intrinsically connected because they are the opposite sides of the same coin. How is someone supposed to learn from failure if they don't reflect on what they did wrong and what they need to improve. They should not overindulge negative framing so if that is what you are really complaining about then I agree. Note however that talking about comparative advantages on certain surfaces and in certain conditions is not something anyone reasonable would consider such overindulgence.

Yes, im the irrational one here. Keep talking. Why stop at MEP? Tell us about how you would beat Karue? Or Giron? Or lets go straight to the top and you tell us how you are capable of beating Alcaraz. Whats your game plan there? Im sure your 1 opponent has prepared you well.

Youre an amusing troll. I still cant figure out why everyone in this thread has humored you for the last 4 days. But yes, seattle heat and 1 unranked regular partner and youre ready to take on everyone. And you just wish you had the money to fly to Atlanta to take on MEP. Thats the only thing stopping you.

Can you tell us how you jogging with your wife has prepared you to qualify for the US track team? Or playing catch with your brother has given you the skills to beat out Metcalf and Lockett for starting WR on the Seahawks? Are you really Jaxon Smith Njigba in disguise? OMG! Can we all have your autograph please!?!?
Were you drunk when you wrote this?

Imo, the march will last about 20 minutes with bakery delights for OY.
Not clear from your posts who you expect to be baking and who you expect will be eating.
Well they can't be for me if I am giving them to you.
 
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