why is milos serve so good?

Jonesy

Legend
Technique and mass. Raonic is very strong and being tall do the finishing touch. He is not just tall like the other guys, he is a tank. But his unusual technique is underrated.

I usually crap on Raonic and Kyrgios others aspects of the game, but the credit is due when it comes to serve considering they are not absurdly tall like Isner, Opelka and Doc Ivo.
 
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Federer and Del Potro

Talk Tennis Guru
New Balance shoes.

thumb_r-mildlyinteresting-brixu-6h-my-fathers-new-balance-collection-from-going-61017244.png
 

Red Rick

Bionic Poster
I know a lot of pros still describe it as "wrist snap," but haven't most coaches moved away from this term due to being a bit misleading? There is pronation, yes, but that is a result of proper mechanics.
Yea it's more of a lasso whip effect. I agree it's a bad term cuase I when I played and knew **** all about tennis I just had my technically horror serve and then deliberitaly pronated my wrist etc.
 

Red Rick

Bionic Poster
Technique and mass. Raonic is very strong and being tall do the finishing touch. He is not just tall like the other guys, he is a tank. But his unusual technique is underrated.

I usually crap on Raonic and Kyrgios others aspects of the game, but the credit is due when it comes to serve considering they are not absurdly tall like Isner, Opelka and Doc Ivo.
Yeah I'm not sure Raonic even has technique that's specific for big serving. But he has huge, long legs and long arms so he serves more like he's 2.05 or somehting rather than 1.96.
 

Open Stance

Professional
I know a lot of pros still describe it as "wrist snap," but haven't most coaches moved away from this term due to being a bit misleading? There is pronation, yes, but that is a result of proper mechanics.
When the pros bring the racket up from their drop, they actually lead with the edge of the racket and rotate - or pronate - it just prior to impact so the strings hit the ball. They continue this rotation so the opposite edge leads the follow through. Leading with the edge allows the player to generate much more force than leading with the strings...like using the racket as a hammer. The pronation imparts additional power upon impact.
 

Bender

G.O.A.T.
I know a lot of pros still describe it as "wrist snap," but haven't most coaches moved away from this term due to being a bit misleading? There is pronation, yes, but that is a result of proper mechanics.
Yea it's more of a lasso whip effect. I agree it's a bad term cuase I when I played and knew **** all about tennis I just had my technically horror serve and then deliberitaly pronated my wrist etc.
When the pros bring the racket up from their drop, they actually lead with the edge of the racket and rotate - or pronate - it just prior to impact so the strings hit the ball. They continue this rotation so the opposite edge leads the follow through. Leading with the edge allows the player to generate much more force than leading with the strings...like using the racket as a hammer. The pronation imparts additional power upon impact.
Coaches moved away from "wrist snap" in both the serve and the forehand because the connotation is that the wrist plays an active role in those strokes, which is not clearly not true.

Players watching slow-mo videos and reading / listening to less-than-credible online coaches talking about "wrist snap" will assume that the racquet lagging behind the forearm right at the beginning of the forward swing (giving both shots their "whippy" characteristic) is an active motion, which is dangerous as trying to actively manipulate such a small and vulnerable joint (which isn't accustomed to being actively worked like that) against incoming pace or creating an explosive movement will inevitably cause injury. People trying to wrist flick a first serve forehand return for eg or trying to hit 100+ mph flat bombs without the fundamentals and an overenthusiastic wrist are basically asking for their wrist to get injured.

What people ca'' "wrist snap" is probably better described (IMO) as "wrist lag", as a laid back wrist will bend backwards and spring forwards even without active manipulation of the wrist. This is probably a bigger topic for forehands rather than serves, where the only place "wrist snap" can be seen is either right at the moment of contact or right after it, just before the "dirty diaper". The problem is that if you try to "snap" at contact, then you have timing issues as well as extraordinary stress on your wrist. If you time it after contact, then it's pointless because the ball would have left the stringbed by then so any wrist movement will impart nothing onto the ball.

TBH wrist movement--active or otherwise--does not play a big role if at all in the serve. It's mostly all about the supination then pronation of the hitting arm, and the wrist is just there, laid back and chilling out as usual.
 

Wurm

Professional
I'd put it down to a combination of factors.

1) I don't know that there's any top pro out there these days with genuinely poor technique on serve (which would manifest in an overtly below average first serve speed*), though there's a number with quirks you wouldn't find recommended in any coaching manuals - for example: Stan's serve relies on his immense core strength; Novak has that painful looking back arch; Fed's serve nowadays has that fussy looking extended loop the right arm wafts through; Becker's serve had a closed foot setup that'd give most people bad knees within weeks; Zverev's serve period - but Raonic's serve is almost flawless platform serve technique in every way, at least after he's rocked back. The only slight quirk is the trigger finger grip and wrist lay off and that's not quirky bad.

2) Ball toss is king. Federer's about the only player I can think of with an outrageous serve who doesn't appear to put the ball toss in seemingly exactly the same spot every time (obviosly first/second serve dependent), though I'm sure he's closer than I feel like he is and I kinda feel like he sacrifices a tiny bit of toss accuracy for the amount of time he keeps his eyes on the opponent. Also, there's always a balance between height of ball toss and rhythm of serve... too high ball tosses can lead to timing issues due to pauses in motion and the ball starting to accelerate as it descends. Low ball tosses work well for people with natural quick rhythms but will rush normal people. Raonic's ball toss is absolutely in the pocket.

3) To my eyes he looks like he has proportionally long arms, in which case he may be "only" 6'5" but the torque his arm can generate is more like that of someone 6'7"-6'8".

4) Big guy, plenty of body weight momentum behind the racquet.

5) Insane amounts of practice as a kid. I read that he struggled to find people to practice with when he was growing up and ended up spending an awful lot of time hitting serves on his own.

6) Last but not least: talent. Ultimately some people (Kyrgios being a great example) have that natural throwing arm whippiness their limbs are capable of that means they're not throwing everything they have at the ball to get it to go 130+mph, meaning there's that ability to still have control over where the racquet is facing when it makes contact with the ball despite the racquet going at a good 90+mph when it strikes the ball. Beyond that there's talent behind being able to control the ball toss so well and keep body weight precisely under control throughout the serve.

* ignoring the sub 5'9" guys working with obvious limitations.
 

chrisb

Professional
I know a lot of pros still describe it as "wrist snap," but haven't most coaches moved away from this term due to being a bit misleading? There is pronation, yes, but that is a result of proper mechanics.
more then misleading a recipe if followed for awful serving
 

mental midget

Hall of Fame
does all the right things! he’s very loose, leans in w the hip which is huge, no hitches in the swing, good shoulder turn a la pete, so he really whips into the ball. delpotro and berdych stay more upright and don’t flow all the way through their motions in the same way (btw they both have great serves but since we’re comparing)....

yeah he’s a big guy but he’s been serving huge since he was about 10-15 lbs lighter as a skinny kid on tour.
 

mental midget

Hall of Fame
does all the right things! he’s very loose, leans in w the hip which is huge, no hitches in the swing, good shoulder turn a la pete, so he really whips into the ball. delpotro and berdych stay more upright and don’t flow all the way through their motions in the same way (btw they both have great serves but since we’re comparing)....

yeah he’s a big guy but he’s been serving huge since he was about 10-15 lbs lighter as a skinny kid on tour.

just to add to the “no hitches” thing, it’s a big one. many guys on tour you can separate out their deliveries as “toss, pause, hit.” and you can make that work, like stan for example, he’s incredibly strong and just fires into the ball from that trophy position. but if you look at most of the really elite servers (kyrgios, goran, milos, pete, even going back to guys like tanner) their delivery is a continuous flow that builds and releases tension like a whip.
 
...but if you look at most of the really elite servers (kyrgios, goran, milos, pete, even going back to guys like tanner) their delivery is a continuous flow that builds and releases tension like a whip.
And lets ad Grothy to that list with history's fastest serve--166 mph.
 

Mark-Touch

Legend
The real question is why the other parts of his game are so bad.
Actually this might have been a valid question a few years ago.
Have you seen him play recently? I suggest you do.
He's really upped almost all other areas of his game.
Movement improved.
FH, BH improved.
He's a new player out there.
How many players can make Tsitsipas seem like a novice?
 
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EllieK

Hall of Fame
Technique and mass. Raonic is very strong and being tall do the finishing touch. He is not just tall like the other guys, he is a tank. But his unusual technique is underrated.

I usually crap on Raonic and Kyrgios others aspects of the game, but the credit is due when it comes to serve considering they are not absurdly tall like Isner, Opelka and Doc Ivo.

he is a large guy all around, that’s for sure. The rest of it is technique. He has taken his strengths and maximised them. Good on him. He will be tough to beat playing at this level. I was busy and couldn’t see all of it, but seems like once the tight first set was in the bag he tromped all over Tsitsipas. Tsitsipas is not that easy to nail down. He’s proved that more than once against the top guys but Raonic also beat him at AO.
 

SonnyT

Legend
If Raonic can stay injury-free, he's a force to reach QF of every non-RG major. His strokes are surprisingly dangerous, off both wings.
 
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