Why is Murray branded a pusher rather than a tactician?

M

Murray Mound

Banned
Murray has a huge serve, a powerful forehand, a powerful backhand. Andy doe also hit a lot of junk and lobs but why is that "pushing".

The term "push" is exactly like it sounds. It's someone who merely "pushes" the ball with nothing on it smack in the middle of the court dareing you to hit a winner. There is no spin on the ball and it's smack in the middle of the court . Just a freaking sitter that is screaming "my grandmother can put this ball away.....come on girly man"......and then the pusher just runs your put away shot down amd merely "pushes" right back for yet another sitter daring you to put it away. You miss yet again and want to kill yourself amd the "pusher".

This is not at all what Andy does . Yes he can hit a dropper and then lob it over your head in a cat and mouse game but that is NOT pushing!!! That's tactics!!

He also can amd does hit with a Ton of power both on serves and ground strokes .
 
He's branded a pusher because its more derogatory, and the people that call him that are more interested in putting him down than being accurate.
 
Thats the point!

Murray can hit with great power and penetration, yet often time chooses not to...

And lately: he tries to force aggression, if his normal passive game isn't working, and makes errors.

Murray is often too passive (again by choice) and this is why I classify him as a pusher albeit with great defensive skills.

Another player he is sometimes compared to for whatever reason is Hewitt. I don't think Hewitt is or was a pusher, because he was not able to hit with superior power (unlike Murray).
 
Murray Mound said:
Murray has a huge serve, a powerful forehand, a powerful backhand. Andy doe also hit a lot of junk and lobs but why is that "pushing".

The term "push" is exactly like it sounds. It's someone who merely "pushes" the ball with nothing on it smack in the middle of the court dareing you to hit a winner. There is no spin on the ball and it's smack in the middle of the court . Just a freaking sitter that is screaming "my grandmother can put this ball away.....come on girly man"......and then the pusher just runs your put away shot down amd merely "pushes" right back for yet another sitter daring you to put it away. You miss yet again and want to kill yourself amd the "pusher".

This is not at all what Andy does . Yes he can hit a dropper and then lob it over your head in a cat and mouse game but that is NOT pushing!!! That's tactics!!

He also can amd does hit with a Ton of power both on serves and ground strokes .
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I agree entirely and am sure that you will welcome some constructive debate to this thread. Unlike the crap sprouting from TT's newest troll in post #2.

What a nob.
 
DRII said:
Thats the point!

Murray can hit with great power and penetration, yet often time chooses not to...

And lately: he tries to force aggression, if his normal passive game isn't working, and makes errors.

Murray is often too passive (again by choice) and this is why I classify him as a pusher albeit with great defensive skills.

Another player he is sometimes compared to for whatever reason is Hewitt. I don't think Hewitt is or was a pusher, because he was not able to hit with superior power (unlike Murray).
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So Hewitt isn't a pusher but Murray is because Murray has more power than Hewitt? :confused:
 
DRII said:
Thats the point!

Murray can hit with great power and penetration, yet often time chooses not to...

And lately: he tries to force aggression, if his normal passive game isn't working, and makes errors.

Murray is often too passive (again by choice) and this is why I classify him as a pusher albeit with great defensive skills.

Another player he is sometimes compared to for whatever reason is Hewitt. I don't think Hewitt is or was a pusher, because he was not able to hit with superior power (unlike Murray).
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can you show me an example of this so called "pushing" via you tube or something?
 
dropshot winner said:
So Hewitt isn't a pusher but Murray is because Murray has more power than Hewitt? :confused:
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IMO, yes...

because Murray has the power, yet to often chooses not to use it.

Hewit doesn't have the power, its not there for him to pick and choose when to deploy it...
 
Murray Mound said:
can you show me an example of this so called "pushing" via you tube or something?
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Just watch the AO 10 final. Murray plays like a pansy. He is afraid to take control of a point when he has offensive opportunities. When he should (AND CAN) hit a winner, he chooses to hit a conservative shot up the middle. He is a poor tactician because he doesn't know when to go for a shot and when not to. When in doubt, he chooses not to go for his shots and pays the price when he faces a guy like Fed in a slam.
 
DRII said:
IMO, yes...

because Murray has the power, yet to often chooses not to use it.

Hewit doesn't have the power, its not there for him to pick and choose when to deploy it...
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Sorry that doesn't make sense. "Pusher" is about what you do on court, not how agressive you play in comparison to your attacking capabilities.

Needless to say that neither Murray or Hewitt are pushers.
 
Because people use it as a way to laugh at him. If Murray played aggressive, he'd probably have won slams already. But noooo he chooses to play passive most of the time, there's the key, most, not all (i.e. he does play aggressive sometimes and when he does that, it's great to watch). Yet he likes playing passive, and it's just so frustrating and boring, and his negative attitude in general makes it worse. Another thing is that his game resembles that of a pusher's the most out of the top pros (i.e. top 15/20) so people call him a pusher even though obviously he isn't (because no pros are pushers). All of that plus the fact that he looks freakin ugly make people like calling him a pusher to put him down.

I like calling him a pusher :p
 
The term pusher is much more intimidating, and its use to describe Murray actually originated from his mother.
If she hadn't secretly spread its use (for example, Mommy Murray's multiple accounts on TW), we would be comparing him with the likes of DelPo. Murray just lobs and hits drop shots when his mom tells him to, so the word is more fitting for him.
Even 7.0+ players hate pushers.
 
dropshot winner said:
Sorry that doesn't make sense. "Pusher" is about what you do on court, not how agressive you play in comparison to your attacking capabilities.

Needless to say that neither Murray or Hewitt are pushers.
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I completely disagree...

If what you do on court is often times play passively compared to what you are capable of, then you are a pusher.

Pusher is a relative term. Any pro would not be a pusher as compared to a recreational player. But judged against each other (or even agaisnt how a player has played in the past) ,particularly players at the top, pros can be pushers (relatively speaking).

Murray is one such example...
 
Ah, the old 'Pusher Murray' bandwagon is rolling into TT town again.

It seems to make a stop here about 3 times a week in the form of a new thread. It's almost as if these people predictably spouting the exact same inane nonsense want to be considered devoid of any originality or individual thought.

If that's the case, then 'congratulations' I guess. You've succeeded!
 
DRII said:
I completely disagree...

If what you do on court is often times play passively compared to what you are capable of, then you are a pusher.

Pusher is a relative term. Any pro would not be a pusher as compared to a recreational player. But judged against each other (or even agaisnt how a player has played in the past) ,particularly players at the top, pros can be pushers (relatively speaking).

Murray is one such example...
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By this logic a player with no weapons trying to be more agressive is a ballbasher.

Murray was accused by many on TT of pushing in the Wimbledon SF, which is nonsense. Sure he did play too passive on some key points, but he had a very solid winner/ue ratio.

Even Agassi whom no one would describe as a pusher played the "keep the ball in play"-kind of game towards the end his career, he wasn't called "The Punisher" for nothing. It's about using your phyiscal edge as an advantage.
 
People use it because it's an ill-defined, subjective, derogatory term. This allows them to belittle his achievements by implying that they were done the easy way. That if Murray played the game 'properly (which appears to mean hitting the ball real hard every time but I'm still not quite sure), then he wouldn't be able to achieve what he does.
 
dropshot winner said:
By this logic a player with no weapons trying to be more agressive is a ballbasher.

Murray was accused by many on TT of pushing in the Wimbledon SF, which is nonsense. Sure he did play too passive on some key points, but he had a very solid winner/ue ratio.

Even Agassi whom no one would describe as a pusher played the "keep the ball in play"-kind of game towards the end his career, he wasn't called "The Punisher" for nothing. It's about using your phyiscal edge as an advantage.
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Yeah D.W., I see your point.

But Agassi never played passively. He at times played safe and percentage tennis, but took his chances when the oppurtunity arose.

Again, it is all relatively.

Roddick is a player i would deem playing safe and relatively percentage tennis right now. He's not as aggressive as he used to be, but I wouldn't classify him as passive either.

Murray on the other hand is playing too passive too often, which makes him a pusher in my mind. He still has the defensive skills to out-manuver his opponents and therefore hit winners in that way.
 
He's a big man with a small man's game

That's why. He doesn't attack the ball very often, even though he can. He tends to wait for the other player to miss. Yes, he constructs points and plays crafty tennis with imagination and variety. He also moves great and thinks well on the court. At the same time, he is a reactive player who tends to let the other player take the game to him, not vice versa. Pusher is not a fair term, I agree, but it's hard to watch a guy with big game tools choosing to play passive and defensive tennis so often. The comparison to Hewitt is apt. He's also a bit like Michael Chang, who was out of his comfort zone when he tried to attack to much. I agree with the poster who said that he has more options than Hewitt, which is why it can be frustrating to watch Murray play. He doesn't throw himself at the ball or attack it, and I think these are the reasons for the put downs.
 
DRII said:
Yeah D.W., I see your point.

But Agassi never played passively. He at times played safe and percentage tennis, but took his chances when the oppurtunity arose.

Again, it is all relatively.

Roddick is a player i would deem playing safe and relatively percentage tennis right now. He's not as aggressive as he used to be, but I wouldn't classify him as passive either.

Murray on the other hand is playing too passive too often, which makes him a pusher in my mind. He still has the defensive skills to out-manuver his opponents and therefore hit winners in that way.
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What you forget is that Murray got some of his biggest wins (those over Federer and most over Djokovic) and titles with his defense.

Murray can't just hit the ball harder without making considerably more errors.
We know that he can hit 100mph forehands, but doing that on a big point when you're not convinced that it'll go in is a recipe for disaster.

Roddick's current game (not Wimbledon 09) is just as defensive as Murray (and less smart).
Roddick gets away with it more often because he has a bigger serve (esp. 2nd delivery).
 
Because people who dislike Murray like to throw the term "pusher" out to ridicule him and use it as a reason why they hate him. It's one thing to not like his game, but to call him a pusher is just uninformed and stupid.
 
dropshot winner said:
What you forget is that Murray got some of his biggest wins (those over Federer and most over Djokovic) and titles with his defense.

Murray can't just hit the ball harder without making considerably more errors.
We know that he can hit 100mph forehands, but doing that on a big point when you're not convinced that it'll go in is a recipe for disaster.

Roddick's current game (not Wimbledon 09) is just as defensive as Murray (and less smart).
Roddick gets away with it more often because he has a bigger serve (esp. 2nd delivery).
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Right, which is why he needs to make a conscious effort to change his game yto be more aggressive, more dictating. Since Federer winning Wimbledon in 2003, the guys who have won slams have all been guys who have dictated the match-play when winning slams; even Nadal. Since Fed '03, there has not been a player who won a GS who consistently let the other player dictate the point, and just played reactive tennis.

To be sure, Murray tries to dictate play against some players -- mostly, just against Nadal on HC. But when he runs into Federer -- and probably also Delpo or Cilic -- then he does not make the effort to dictate play.
 
dh003i said:
Right, which is why he needs to make a conscious effort to change his game yto be more aggressive, more dictating. Since Federer winning Wimbledon in 2003, the guys who have won slams have all been guys who have dictated the match-play when winning slams; even Nadal. Since Fed '03, there has not been a player who won a GS who consistently let the other player dictate the point, and just played reactive tennis.

To be sure, Murray tries to dictate play against some players -- mostly, just against Nadal on HC. But when he runs into Federer -- and probably also Delpo or Cilic -- then he does not make the effort to dictate play.
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And he still has winning h2hs against all 3 of those guys, sizable ones over JMDP and Cilic. Just sayin...
 
Murray big forehands? 100 mph forehands? I don't think i've seen him actually hit the forehand hard
 
ReopeningWed said:
The term pusher is much more intimidating, and its use to describe Murray actually originated from his mother.
If she hadn't secretly spread its use (for example, Mommy Murray's multiple accounts on TW), we would be comparing him with the likes of DelPo. Murray just lobs and hits drop shots when his mom tells him to, so the word is more fitting for him.
Even 7.0+ players hate pushers.
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I'm glad you said that. just take a look at what murray does to del potro in "Murrays a Pusher? part 3" (and federer and Nadal on red clay!):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvsX37XQE7c&feature=related
 
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dh003i said:
Right, which is why he needs to make a conscious effort to change his game yto be more aggressive, more dictating. Since Federer winning Wimbledon in 2003, the guys who have won slams have all been guys who have dictated the match-play when winning slams; even Nadal. Since Fed '03, there has not been a player who won a GS who consistently let the other player dictate the point, and just played reactive tennis.

To be sure, Murray tries to dictate play against some players -- mostly, just against Nadal on HC. But when he runs into Federer -- and probably also Delpo or Cilic -- then he does not make the effort to dictate play.
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That's simply not true. Against Federer Murray has to deal with very different shots. Federer is a lot closer to the baseline than Nadal AND hits more penetrating shots. It's WAY easier to be aggressive on hardcourts off Nadal's loopy groundstrokes, even Robredo managed to do it.

Murray did exactly the right thing at the AO by playing to Federer's backhand.
Usually he would've gotten lots of short ball or an error, this time Federer was just too good. It's very possible that Murray beats Federer in a slam the next time with exactly the same gameplan.

You can't seriously expect from Murray that he engages in forehand battles with Federer.
 
It would not be surprising to see Andy make a move in the clay season. A final or semi at the French. My gut feeling might be wrong tho.
 
I'm talking about 2010, did he ever hit a forehand hard? The majority are top spin that land half way into the service box
 
Murray is a lot of things. Love or hate the guy thats your right....but as evidenced by the viseos....he is clearly not a "Pusher".

so we done now?
 
because we don't like him so we think of ways to make Murray lovers angry.
 
I don't think he is a pusher. Pushers can't serve over 130 mph and cant hit strokes over 90 mph. Wozniacki is a pusher. When on the run she hits lobs 50 feet in the air to get back into position. Murray has dangerous weapons.
 
volleynets said:
I don't think he is a pusher. Pushers can't serve over 130 mph and cant hit strokes over 90 mph. Wozniacki is a pusher. When on the run she hits lobs 50 feet in the air to get back into position. Murray has dangerous weapons.
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So does almost everyone mens or womens tennis, only like a small majority of the time do they actually go for winners when they are on the run and terribly out of position
 
he never does anything exciting, he's a grade a pusher, a pushaholic, the kind of player everyone dreads playing in a tournament
 
jamesblakefan#1 said:
Because people who dislike Murray like to throw the term "pusher" out to ridicule him and use it as a reason why they hate him. It's one thing to not like his game, but to call him a pusher is just uninformed and stupid.
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How can you be such a defensive cry-baby and an offensive brat at the same time? I wish Murray played more the way you engage in a discussion.

FYI, I do not dislike Murray.

I do find his game frustrating at times. He clearly needs to learn to be more offensive more often in the big matches.
 
DRII said:
How can you be such a defensive cry-baby and an offensive brat at the same time? I wish Murray played more the way you engage in a discussion.

FYI, I do not dislike Murray.

I do find his game frustrating at times. He clearly needs to learn to be more offensive more often in the big matches.
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Where did that come from? I wasn't talking about you, but I'm sorry you took it that way. :?
 
A pusher by definition is anyone who wins a majority of his matches from his opponents unforced errors rather than by his own winners.
 
Murray is a tactician.

His tactics include being a hopeless pusher, acting like a brat, and losing to Federer in Grand Slam finals.
 
murray is a tactician. It just so happens that pushing allows him to win a lot. But against players like fed and nadal, pushing aint gonna cut it.

he has figured it out against nadal but fed is his thorn.But keep in mind that fed has been in god-mode when he played murray in those two slam finals.
 
World Beater said:
murray is a tactician. It just so happens that pushing allows him to win a lot. But against players like fed and nadal, pushing aint gonna cut it.

he has figured it out against nadal but fed is his thorn.But keep in mind that fed has been in god-mode when he played murray in those two slam finals.
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Of coures fed is always in God Mode when he wins but not playing his best when he loses. We know this because his fans and fed himself always say so. :shock:

Now I have shown four videos and i dont see where he pushes. can you show me any video anywhere where Murray was pushing?:confused:
 
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