Why is Nadal so good on clay?

GameSampras

Banned
the best strategy to beat Nadal is S&Ving on clay. It sounds crazy but it's true. NO-ONE is beating Nadal from the backcourt unless they have a perfect game and Nadal is not at 100% but if someone with a huge serve and is really skilled at S&Ving.... can play intelligently, they might have a shot. Nadal's confort zone is playing rallies and limiting errors.. and getting into long pts. He would HATE to have to play a clay court match where there are NO RALLIES and he is forced to hit 100 passing shots to win.

S&Vers haven't excatly been horrible on clay. Edberg, Mac made finals of FO, Pete, Boris semis and Henman semis. Stich made finals.... Baseliners have the advatage but when we talk Nadal... no baseliner is outrallying him. Mac always criticizes Federer for not coming in more...Wilander gave Fed an earful as-well.

Problems is the true Serve and Volleyer has become obsolete.
 
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abmk

Bionic Poster
Did anyone actually win FO by SnVing ?

It's silly to think federer could defeat nadal at RG by only SnVing .
 

wyutani

Hall of Fame
He didn't have much besides his wheels. Yeah, he was rock solid off both wings, but he couldn't hit past anyone like Nadal, Muster, Federer or Almagro, for that matter. He was a precision counterpuncher who could absorb pace and redirect it to the corners like no other.
He relied too much on speed and magic tricks. He had one of the highest BP converted % ever, because he was forced to break serve all the time, with his serve being all that crappy.

I remember his 2006 clay season. The guy was winning matches with 15-17-20 double faults. His return game was flawless, his service game was pathetic.

if coria learns to keep his serve, he'll be immortal.
 

GameSampras

Banned
Did anyone actually win FO by SnVing ?

It's silly to think federer could defeat nadal at RG by only SnVing .



Well he certainly cant beat Rafa from the baseline can he? Especially at RG. He needs to switch his game up somehow. This constant rallying with Rafa from the baseline is not getting the job done.. How many times has he tried this. 4 times in a row. 4 losses.

Of course Fed and Nadal will not incorporate serve-volleyer into their repotraire
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
Well he certainly cant beat Rafa from the baseline can he? Especially at RG. He needs to switch his game up somehow. This constant rallying with Rafa from the baseline is not getting the job done.. How many times has he tried this. 4 times in a row. 4 losses.

Of course Fed and Nadal will not incorporate serve-volleyer into their repotraire

He cannot beat Rafa purely from the baseline nor can he beat him by purely by coming up to the net since rafa's passing shots are too good. He has to mix it up. There are several other things he needs to do also.

Oh and Fed knows how to serve and volley . He SnVed on the faster courts from 2001-2003.

Just an exhibition from wimbledon 2001 :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQTMUryA_7A&NR=1

He won 2003 Wim by SnVing ..

Its just that majority of the courts are slower than they used to be. And he's basically better than all except rafa from the baseline. So he doesn't really have to SnV too much.
 

GameSampras

Banned
At this point the way Nadal has continued his overall improvement in the game .. Fed is going to have to work on his attack game if he wants to beat Rafa. Nadal is only improving his overrall game, And Fed continues his slow decline.. We saw fed try some attacking at wimby this year unfortunately he was caught like a deer in headlights at the net. That part of his game needs some improvements. Fed's baseline game is still strong enough to beat DJoker and Murray (though that could be coming to end) but not Nadal. Fed cannot beat Nadal from the baseline anymore as he could before
 

NamRanger

G.O.A.T.
At this point the way Nadal has continued his overall improvement in the game .. Fed is going to have to work on his attack game if he wants to beat Rafa. Nadal is only improving his overrall game, And Fed continues his slow decline.. We saw fed try some attacking at wimby this year unfortunately he was caught like a deer in headlights at the net. That part of his game needs some improvements. Fed's baseline game is still strong enough to beat DJoker and Murray (though that could be coming to end) but not Nadal. Fed cannot beat Nadal from the baseline anymore as he could before


Again, only on clay and that abomination we call grass.
 

P_Agony

Banned
YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS P_agony!

I can be and I am. Think about it for a minute. Just look how competitive most of their matches on caly were. Just look that in many of those Federer won a set or was close to win both sets but didnt win a single one (Monte Carlo 08). Federer has a great defense game when he needs it, and a top-form Federer can stay with Nadal in the long rallies.
 

Nadal_Freak

Banned
Hmm, really? Because both Pete and Jim Courier grew up on hard courts.
Yeah my bad on saying all hardcourters don't adapt well. It is interesting that Nadal seems to not mind grass yet players before him wasn't able to make the adjustment. The combination of Nadal getting more confident with his attacking game and his movement on grass allowed him to find a way. I'd say most clay courters don't attack as much or hate time being taken from them. Some have a very weak serve. Thus, they couldn't take advantage of the similar feel of the surface that grass has to clay. Federer growing up on clay allowed him to dominate grass more because of how comfortable he is with the movement.
 

Andres

G.O.A.T.
Thus, they couldn't take advantage of the similar feel of the surface that grass has to clay.
I'm sorry, but it's almost a habit disagreeing with you. Yes, they're both natural surfaces, but they don't have a similar feel by any chance. Not in the footing, not in the movement, no nothing. They're both soft, and that's it.
 

Nadal_Freak

Banned
I'm sorry, but it's almost a habit disagreeing with you. Yes, they're both natural surfaces, but they don't have a similar feel by any chance. Not in the footing, not in the movement, no nothing. They're both soft, and that's it.
Yes there are differences but not as much of a difference as clay and hard courts imo. They are both slippery in different ways while hard courts are not slippery at all.
 

Kal-El 34

Hall of Fame
hard court can be slippery in some way... watch a spanish player on hard court they still slide all over the place...
 

Nadal_Freak

Banned
hard court can be slippery in some way... watch a spanish player on hard court they still slide all over the place...
Yeah Nadal would prefer the more slippery hard courts. Rebound Ace was not that though from what I've heard. The more sticky courts, the less sliding.
 

edmondsm

Legend
Yeah my bad on saying all hardcourters don't adapt well. It is interesting that Nadal seems to not mind grass yet players before him wasn't able to make the adjustment. The combination of Nadal getting more confident with his attacking game and his movement on grass allowed him to find a way. I'd say most clay courters don't attack as much or hate time being taken from them. Some have a very weak serve. Thus, they couldn't take advantage of the similar feel of the surface that grass has to clay. Federer growing up on clay allowed him to dominate grass more because of how comfortable he is with the movement.


I think it is very emblematic of the clay and grass surfaces changing in this decade. Back in the 90's the clayers had a much easier time getting results on hardcourts then they did on grass. Looking at the Wimbledon results of Muster, Bruguera, and Kuerten, there is no denying that the grass at the All-England Club has changed.
 

All-rounder

Legend
I think it is very emblematic of the clay and grass surfaces changing in this decade. Back in the 90's the clayers had a much easier time getting results on hardcourts then they did on grass. Looking at the Wimbledon results of Muster, Bruguera, and Kuerten, there is no denying that the grass at the All-England Club has changed.
Good post Muster couldnt even get past the first round of wimbledon and yet he was french open champ and world no 1 at that time
 
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