Why is Novak Djokovic so much better at Australian Open's hard court than at US Open's hard court?

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Ganstaz003

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I mean, Djokovic is widely regarded by many as one of, if not the greatest hard court player of all time. Yet, unlike Roger Federer (another candidate for the greatest hard court player ever), Djokovic has a significantly better record at Australian Open's hard court grand slams than at US Open's hard court grand slams? Are there any particular reasons for this? Is it because of the surfaces being different or are there any other particular reasons / factors that contribute to this?

Now I'm not claiming Novak Djokovic is a bad player at US Open's hard court grand slams. Instead, my point is that by his Australian Open standards, he isn't quite as good at US Open as he is at Australian Open.

Shouldn't a great hard court player like Novak Djokovic have similar level of success in every hard court slams? I find it hard to believe it's his level which is different in both those tournaments. Instead, I'm guessing it's most likely the court surfaces.
 
After the switch from rebound ace the Australian open court surface was really slow. Resulting in Nadal and Djokovic being better here than in the US. Where as Federer is better at the open versus the AO. Until this year where they actually sped up the courts. Especially center court. Resulting in fed having his best AO in years. Obviously. He would have done well anyways seeing the sunshine double as Indian Wells and Miami are the slowest hard court tourneys on the calendar.
 
Ganstaz003 said:
I mean, Djokovic is widely regarded by many as one of, if not the greatest hard court player of all time. Yet, unlike Roger Federer (another candidate for the greatest hard court player ever), Djokovic has a significantly better record at Australian Open's hard court grand slams than at US Open's hard court grand slams? Are there any particular reasons for this? Is it because of the surfaces being different or are there any other particular reasons / factors that contribute to this?

Now I'm not claiming Novak Djokovic is a bad player at US Open's hard court grand slams. Instead, my point is that by his Australian Open standards, he isn't quite as good at US Open as he is at Australian Open.

Shouldn't a great hard court player like Novak Djokovic have similar level of success in every hard court slams? I find it hard to believe it's his level which is different in both those tournaments. Instead, I'm guessing it's most likely the court surfaces.
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Aussie has less rowdy crowds and noise , I think ???
US open has the most mental distractions as anyone can see how an average New Yorker behaves in public
 
Anton H said:
After the switch from rebound ace the Australian open court surface was really slow. Resulting in Nadal and Djokovic being better here than in the US. Where as Federer is better at the open versus the AO. Until this year where they actually sped up the courts. Especially center court. Resulting in fed having his best AO in years. Obviously. He would have done well anyways seeing the sunshine double as Indian Wells and Miami are the slowest hard court tourneys on the calendar.
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Also, AO is first up so Djokovic starts with a fresh tank of gas to play his grinding style. USO falls at the end of the slam cycle and it's harder to have the stamina required to play that endurance tennis with so much more tennis leading up to early September. Since '08, no one has defended their USO title and seven different players have walked with the nine titles, easily the most diverse set of slam champions in that span.
 
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Anton H said:
After the switch from rebound ace the Australian open court surface was really slow. Resulting in Nadal and Djokovic being better here than in the US. Where as Federer is better at the open versus the AO. Until this year where they actually sped up the courts. Especially center court. Resulting in fed having his best AO in years. Obviously. He would have done well anyways seeing the sunshine double as Indian Wells and Miami are the slowest hard court tourneys on the calendar.
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Federer would have lost to Nadal at AO has court been like usua in Australia.

However Nadal is far better at USO than AO. Djokovic is much better at AO as he moved better on plexicushion than anyone else. It's a very sticky top surface and Nadal has always found that tough and even Federer has never seemed as comfortable.

For these guys movement is absolutely key. Nadal moves best on clay. Federer on grass. Lo and behold they all have best records on those surfaces.
 
Glimmerman said:
Federer would have lost to Nadal at AO has court been like usua in Australia.

However Nadal is far better at USO than AO. Djokovic is much better at AO as he moved better on plexicushion than anyone else. It's a very sticky top surface and Nadal has always found that tough and even Federer has never seemed as comfortable.

For these guys movement is absolutely key. Nadal moves best on clay. Federer on grass. Lo and behold they all have best records on those surfaces.
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Far better? I completely disagree.

In fact I will say that Nadal has faced and overcome vastly superior competition at AO than USO. His AO 09 easily destroys anything he has had to face at any slam, including the USO. He took peak Djokovic to five sets on his best surface. He has a 3-1 H2H against Federer. He has played classics against the likes of Dimitrov and Berdych, and put on clinics against the likes of Raonic and Cilic. What he has had it a bit of misfortune.

Had he not missed that backhand dtl against Djokovic, who knows what would have happened. Had he not gotten injured in AO 2014 who knows what would have happened. Let's remember one thing, the two times Nadal won USO, he played first and played against Misha and Reeshard in very one sided semis, while Djokovic went to hell and back with Federer and Wawrinka in five sets each time. Lets swap Nadal and Djokovic's draws and lets see if he gets both USO titles.
 
Hitman said:
Far better? I completely disagree.

In fact I will say that Nadal has faced and overcome vastly superior competition at AO than USO. His AO 09 easily destroys anything he has had to face at any slam, including the USO. He took peak Djokovic to five sets on his best surface. He has a 3-1 H2H against Federer. He has played classics against the likes of Dimitrov and Berdych, and put on clinics against the likes of Raonic and Cilic. What he has had it a bit of misfortune.

Had he not missed that backhand dtl against Djokovic, who knows what would have happened. Had he not gotten injured in AO 2014 who knows what would have happened. Let's remember one thing, the two times Nadal won USO, he played first and played against Misha and Reeshard in very one sided semis, while Djokovic went to hell and back with Federer and Wawrinka in five sets each time. Lets swap Nadal and Djokovic's draws and lets see if he gets both USO titles.
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It's about winning though isn't it. A 2-1 hit rate is miles better than 1-3.

I take the point Djokovic had harder semis. But still for Nadal to beat djokovic (probably the greatest hard court player of all time) twice is staggering and dwarfs his AO record. Even had Nadal say won 2014 AO I'd still say Nadals USO record more impressive as beating Djokovic on hard court is the ultimate test.
 
Ganstaz003 said:
I mean, Djokovic is widely regarded by many as one of, if not the greatest hard court player of all time. Yet, unlike Roger Federer (another candidate for the greatest hard court player ever), Djokovic has a significantly better record at Australian Open's hard court grand slams than at US Open's hard court grand slams? Are there any particular reasons for this? Is it because of the surfaces being different or are there any other particular reasons / factors that contribute to this?

Now I'm not claiming Novak Djokovic is a bad player at US Open's hard court grand slams. Instead, my point is that by his Australian Open standards, he isn't quite as good at US Open as he is at Australian Open.

Shouldn't a great hard court player like Novak Djokovic have similar level of success in every hard court slams? I find it hard to believe it's his level which is different in both those tournaments. Instead, I'm guessing it's most likely the court surfaces.
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Because he was playing Murray, my nan could have performed better than him in the final
 
It's simple. It's because he didn't have to play Nadal multiple times there whereas he played Nadal 3x at the USO and Djokovic only won once. Those 6 titles Djokovic has would be pegged down to 4 if he played Nadal 3x at the AO. Then he faces Wawrinka in one final then it'd be 3.

When you have Murray as your rival you're obviously gonna laugh your way to another +1 grand slam title.
 
Glimmerman said:
It's about winning though isn't it. A 2-1 hit rate is miles better than 1-3.

I take the point Djokovic had harder semis. But still for Nadal to beat djokovic (probably the greatest hard court player of all time) twice is staggering and dwarfs his AO record. Even had Nadal say won 2014 AO I'd still say Nadals USO record more impressive as beating Djokovic on hard court is the ultimate test.
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Federer is the greatest HC player ever.
 
It's hard to understand. Sure the courts are a bit faster, but Djokovic's consistency at US Open is his best at any major. The only difference is his conversion rate in finals is utterly crap.
Djokovic: 2007-2017
Us Open: F, SF, SF, F, W, F, F, SF, W, F, (not playing)
Auzzie:4R, W, QF, QF, W, W, W, QF, W, W, 2R

Honestly, Djokovic is one of the most consistent US Open Players Ever. Id say almost as consistent as Federer. The difference really is the conversion rate . Lets look at Feds and Noles performance at the US Open.
Djokovic's US Open Attendance (from 2004-2017)
A, 3rd, 3rd, F, SF, SF, F, W, F, F, SF, W, F, A
Federer US Open Attendance (from 1998-2016)
A, Q2, 3rd, 4rd, 4rd, 4rd, W, W, W, W , W , F , SF, SF , QF, 4rd, SF, F , A

In his first 14 years, Djokovic made 10 consecutive SFs which includes 2 titles and 7 Finals. The Other Two years he either didn't attend or made it to the 3rd round. Federer in his first 14 years reached 8 consecutive semi finals including 5 titles and 6 finals. He had a ridiculous 5 titles in a row and 6 finals in a row (only surpassed by lendls 8 finals in a row). Overall in Federers career at the US Open compared to Djokovic's career they have the same number of Finals(7) and Semi Finals reached(10). This is due to the fact that Djokovic went deeper at the US Open at an earlier age compared to Roger. Roger won his first US Open at the age of 23, which was also his first final, Semi final, and QF ever reached at the US Open. By the Age of 23 Djokovic already reached 2 Finals and 4 Semifinals at the US Open. So Djokovic has matched pretty much all of Rogers accomplishments at the US Open. The difference though is Rogers incredible consistency at his Peak. He never took any opportunity for granted and won 5 US titles in a row.

Djokovic really had a chance to be the US Open Goat as well as the Hardcourt Goat. I think he dominates the US Open Field, but fails in the finals because of nerves maybe? Confidence? I really do think its all in the head, and has minimal to do with court conditions or other factors. His first two losses are understandable. 2007 PEak Fed (And he still kept up). 2010 is peak Nadal on Hardcourt wanting his first US Open. But his losses against wawrinka, nadal in 2013, and Murray in 2012 are imo unacceptable.
 
Jon Snow said:
It's simple. It's because he didn't have to play Nadal multiple times there whereas he played Nadal 3x at the USO and Djokovic only won once. Those 6 titles Djokovic has would be pegged down to 4 if he played Nadal 3x at the AO. Then he faces Wawrinka in one final then it'd be 3.

When you have Murray as your rival you're obviously gonna laugh your way to another +1 grand slam title.
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again, clueless fella at it again.

Djokovic has faced stan 3x at the AO and beat him twice there. (though none of the meetings were in a final)

If he had played nadal at the AO 3x, he'd have beat him atleast twice, probably all 3 times -- given nadal playing his 2nd best AO in 2012 failed to beat djokovic playing arguably his 5th best AO (after 11,08,16,13)

Djoko at the AO has faced considerably better opposition than nadal when he won the USO in 10/13. Nadal had absolutely cakewalk draws to the finals in both.
 
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Glimmerman said:
It's about winning though isn't it. A 2-1 hit rate is miles better than 1-3.

I take the point Djokovic had harder semis. But still for Nadal to beat djokovic (probably the greatest hard court player of all time) twice is staggering and dwarfs his AO record. Even had Nadal say won 2014 AO I'd still say Nadals USO record more impressive as beating Djokovic on hard court is the ultimate test.
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nope, nadal beating federer in AO 09 was considerably more impressive than him beating djokovic in USO 13/10 -- neither times in which djokovic was playing anywhere near his best.

federer at his prime at the AO playing well > djokovic at the USO playing well
federer at his prime at the AO playing well >> djokovic at the USO not playing close to his best.

add to that nadal beat an absolutely on-fire verdasco in AO 09 SF.

that makes his AO 09 run tougher than USO 10/13 combined.
 
Ganstaz003 said:
I mean, Djokovic is widely regarded by many as one of, if not the greatest hard court player of all time. Yet, unlike Roger Federer (another candidate for the greatest hard court player ever), Djokovic has a significantly better record at Australian Open's hard court grand slams than at US Open's hard court grand slams? Are there any particular reasons for this?
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It's because unlike Roger Federer, Novak Djokovic is not the greatest hard court player of all time.
 
Americans root against Djokovic for majority of the matches, that really is the only reason, Djokovic is very dependent on the crowd
 
I think it's the heat. Novak plays poorly in heat.

AO he almost always has a night match. Hasn't played in the Australian sunlight since 2009.

US Open matches are typically in the daytime especially the Final.
 
abmk said:
again, clueless fella at it again.

Djokovic has faced stan 3x at the AO and beat him twice there. (though none of the meetings were in a final)

If he had played nadal at the AO 3x, he'd have beat him atleast twice, probably all 3 times -- given nadal playing his 2nd best AO in 2012 failed to beat djokovic playing arguably his 5th best AO (after 11,08,16,13)

Djoko at the AO has faced considerably better opposition than nadal when he won the USO in 10/13. Nadal had absolutely cakewalk draws to the finals in both.
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Better competition? What, Murray in finals? lol Imagine if Nadal had Murray in finals in 2011 for example and not Djokovic.

Going by your logic...Nadal was facing the guy who apparently had better opposition at the AO and beating him at the USO 2x. So Nadal is even greater >>>>>>>>> :D
 
Jon Snow said:
It's simple. It's because he didn't have to play Nadal multiple times there whereas he played Nadal 3x at the USO and Djokovic only won once. Those 6 titles Djokovic has would be pegged down to 4 if he played Nadal 3x at the AO. Then he faces Wawrinka in one final then it'd be 3.
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Apperantly Djokovic is the one to have failed to make it to Nadal at AO, isn't it?
tumblr_inline_nvs02bn4Q61t4c29m_500.gif
 
hipolymer said:
Americans root against Djokovic for majority of the matches, that really is the only reason, Djokovic is very dependent on the crowd
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He wouldn't have won anywhere near as much as he has if he depended on the crowd.
Jon Snow said:
It's simple. It's because he didn't have to play Nadal multiple times there whereas he played Nadal 3x at the USO and Djokovic only won once. Those 6 titles Djokovic has would be pegged down to 4 if he played Nadal 3x at the AO. Then he faces Wawrinka in one final then it'd be 3.

When you have Murray as your rival you're obviously gonna laugh your way to another +1 grand slam title.
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And we all know that Nadal is a beast in AO finals, no matter who the opponent is, no?

djokovic-vs-nadal-australian-open-2012-497x320.jpg

stanislas-wawrinka-rafael-nadal-1.jpg

adde1bcc2204b4a3c5bb1d2c4341208d
 
IMO it is because the Australian Open is the first major of the year.

Djokovic is fresh mentally and physically.

He can tend to grind and play a more physical brand of tennis which leaves him more susceptible to fatigue and niggling issues later in the year.
 
Charlie said:
He wouldn't have won anywhere near as much as he has if he depended on the crowd.

And we all know that Nadal is a beast in AO finals, no matter who the opponent is, no?

djokovic-vs-nadal-australian-open-2012-497x320.jpg

stanislas-wawrinka-rafael-nadal-1.jpg

adde1bcc2204b4a3c5bb1d2c4341208d
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All I could notice is that Nadal is definitely the most handsome. Thanks for the great pics.
 
He's definitely better at AO but a lot of people are saying it's due to AO being at the start of the year and he's fresher. That's not true if you ask me. Are people forgetting the way he cleans up the indoor hard court season after US open and including the WTF which he's won many times. It's not due lack of freshness otherwise he wouldn't be winning as many tournaments post US open as he does.
 
Ganstaz003 said:
I mean, Djokovic is widely regarded by many as one of, if not the greatest hard court player of all time. Yet, unlike Roger Federer (another candidate for the greatest hard court player ever), Djokovic has a significantly better record at Australian Open's hard court grand slams than at US Open's hard court grand slams? Are there any particular reasons for this? Is it because of the surfaces being different or are there any other particular reasons / factors that contribute to this?

Now I'm not claiming Novak Djokovic is a bad player at US Open's hard court grand slams. Instead, my point is that by his Australian Open standards, he isn't quite as good at US Open as he is at Australian Open.

Shouldn't a great hard court player like Novak Djokovic have similar level of success in every hard court slams? I find it hard to believe it's his level which is different in both those tournaments. Instead, I'm guessing it's most likely the court surfaces.
Click to expand...

Whether the courts are slower or not, I do not know.

In case of Djokovic though, stamina and endurance have always been his problems (except for a couple of years), so it's reasonable he is a strong starter and poor finisher. Case in points are also IW and Miami; he has really dominated these two tournaments along with AO. Whereas he has 0 Cincy titles and only 2 USO titles, so it fits the pattern.

He does have 5 YEC titles though. Probably because he doesn't have to play as many matches, and 3 of those wins came against a depleted Federer (1 was a walkover).
 
abmk said:
nope, nadal beating federer in AO 09 was considerably more impressive than him beating djokovic in USO 13/10 -- neither times in which djokovic was playing anywhere near his best.

federer at his prime at the AO playing well > djokovic at the USO playing well
federer at his prime at the AO playing well >> djokovic at the USO not playing close to his best.

add to that nadal beat an absolutely on-fire verdasco in AO 09 SF.

that makes his AO 09 run tougher than USO 10/13 combined.
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Djokovic played such a crap final in 2010 that I still find it hard to let go after all these years. That was one absolutely needless hard court slam for Nadal.

He did it despite getting an extra day in rest. He stood 1000 feet behind the baseline and was moonballing with Nadal the whole match. It was an abomination. He literally robbed Fed a chance to get one up on Nadal at the USO that year and in process, also gifted Nadal one extra USO title. (Yes, I believe Fed would have won against Nadal in 4 sets in New York...I am hoping Fed gets to Nadal in New York at least this year).

He did mend his ways in 2011...but man, that 2010 final was unwatchable. It was a sad day to see Nadal complete his career slam on what used to be Fed's best surface.
 
TennisATP said:
All I could notice is that Nadal is definitely the most handsome. Thanks for the great pics.
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If you say so, but that wasn't my point.
fedfan39 said:
Djokovic played such a crap final in 2010 that I still find it hard to let go after all these years. That was one absolutely needless hard court slam for Nadal.

He did it despite getting an extra day in rest. He stood 1000 feet behind the baseline and was moonballing with Nadal the whole match. It was an abomination. He literally robbed Fed a chance to get one up on Nadal at the USO that year and in process, also gifted Nadal one extra USO title. (Yes, I believe Fed would have won against Nadal in 4 sets in New York...I am hoping Fed gets to Nadal in New York at least this year).

He did mend his ways in 2011...but man, that 2010 final was unwatchable. It was a sad day to see Nadal complete his career slam on what used to be Fed's best surface.
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Djokovic sucked in the 2013 final. He was pretty decent in 2010 actually, especially considering his overall season. Nadal was just too good for everyone during that entire USO.
 
Jon Snow said:
Better competition? What, Murray in finals? lol Imagine if Nadal had Murray in finals in 2011 for example and not Djokovic.

Going by your logic...Nadal was facing the guy who apparently had better opposition at the AO and beating him at the USO 2x. So Nadal is even greater >>>>>>>>> :D
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Federer/Tsonga in AO 08, Federer in AO 11, Nadal/murray in AO 12, Stan/murray in AO 13, Stan in AO 14, Stan/Murray in AO 15.

I am excluding AO 11, AO 16 for murray coz he didn't play well.

Again like I had proven before, you are sh*t clueless, thinking that murray was the only one of note djoko faced at the AO

Djoko at AO > djoko at the USO and 10/13 were not even in the top 5 USOs for djoko (11,15,12,08,07,09 were clearly better)

Nadal faced cakewalk draws until the final at the uso in both 10 and 13. And then djoko in both finals ( with both USO performances not even in top 5 for him)
 
While I am sure some of it is technical related, I imagine atmosphere is part of it too. Novak gets upset and it impacts his play when crowds cheer for his opponent, and if you break down his 5 final and 3 semi final losses, in almost every instance, maybe every instance, the crowd was for his opponent. I am not making an excuse for him in the least, it is his challenge just like everyone else to deal with the many unique challenges of the Open, and the crowds are one of those, and Novak is one of the few great players who really seems to be emotionally impacted by feelings crowds are against him or not on his side often.
 
abmk said:
Federer/Tsonga in AO 08, Federer in AO 11, Nadal/murray in AO 12, Stan/murray in AO 13, Stan in AO 14, Stan/Murray in AO 15.

I am excluding AO 11, AO 16 for murray coz he didn't play well.

Again like I had proven before, you are sh*t clueless, thinking that murray was the only one of note djoko faced at the AO

Djoko at AO > djoko at the USO and 10/13 were not even in the top 5 USOs for djoko (11,15,12,08,07,09 were clearly better)

Nadal faced cakewalk draws until the final at the uso in both 10 and 13. And then djoko in both finals ( with both USO performances not even in top 5 for him)
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And Djokovic beat all them then Nadal beat Djokovic.

Nadal is greater >>>>>>>>>>>>> :D
 
deacsyoga said:
While I am sure some of it is technical related, I imagine atmosphere is part of it too. Novak gets upset and it impacts his play when crowds cheer for his opponent, and if you break down his 5 final and 3 semi final losses, in almost every instance, maybe every instance, the crowd was for his opponent. I am not making an excuse for him in the least, it is his challenge just like everyone else to deal with the many unique challenges of the Open, and the crowds are one of those, and Novak is one of the few great players who really seems to be emotionally impacted by feelings crowds are against him or not on his side often.
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Then how did he win against Federer in 2015, when absolutely everyone was rooting for Federer?

I think the reason why Djokovic has only 2 us opens is because his peak level there is not high enough. While he is very consistent there, peak Nadal seems to be superior.

His loss against Murray in 2012, however, is inexusable.
 
Jon Snow said:
Djokovic beat Federer in USO 2k10 then Nadal beat Djokovic no? :D

Djokovic beat Wawrinka is USO 2k13 then Nadal beat Djokovic no? :D
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yes, djokovic beat a below par federer in USO 10.
and a good stan in USO 13.

again just showing djokovic had it tougher at the USO, facing tougher opponents and having to come through 5-setters..while nadal was strolling through his semi matches vs easy opponents - youzhny, gasquet (&previous to that as well)

djokovic beat a pretty good federer in USO 11 and a pretty good nadal in USO 11.
also beat a good federer in USO 15.

Like I said, USO 10/USO 13 were not even in the top 5 USOs were djokovic (below 11,15,12,08,07,09)

USO 11 was the 3rd best USO for nadal ( after 10,13)
 
Its the same reason as to why Djokovic has done better at the Canadian Open than Cincinatti. Court speed.
 
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