Why is Rafa a clearly superior USO player to Djokovic despite being supposedly inferior on HC?

[Fedal 2020]

it boggles the mind that rafa is called a clay specialist and still took the supposed hc goat to the cleaners not once but twice on his best surface and the most prestigious hc slam...not only that he has more titles to boot.

 

[Deleted member 748597]

It's all about the timing.

 

[Backspin1183]

Because he won the rare Berrettini Open.

 

[michiru]

bc his last win was 7 years ago and a lot has changed since then

 

[GabeT]

Your premise is wrong. /thread

carry on

 

[Breakpointerer]

Because he won the rare Berrettini Open.

Rafa has the extremely rare Berrettini Open+Djokovic Open double. GOAT.

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

lol

 

[USO]

Because he won the rare Berrettini Open.

He beat Medvedev in the final, a player who beat Djokovic twice that year and was the hottest player on tour that whole period.

 

[BeatlesFan]

He beat Medvedev in the final, a player who beat Djokovic twice that year and was the hottest player on tour that whole period.

Using that logic then Kyrgios is some kind of super athlete, he's 2-0 against Djokovic. Med's won 7 titles in his entire career, he's not some kind of titan in any slam final.

 

[Pheasant]

It's about the draws. Nadal's bad luck at the AO has been offset by his good luck at the USO. Nadal deserves his 5 hard court slams. But he should probably have had 3 at the USO and 2 at the AO.

Djokovic ran into prime Fed 3 years in a row at the USO from 2007-2009. That was in the middle of Fed going to 6 consecutive USO finals with 5 straight wins. With no prime Fed, Djoker probably takes 2 of those titles right there. 2017 USO: Nadal faced 0 players in the top 20.

USO vs top-10 players
Nadal 7-5
Djokovic 12-7

USO vs top-20 players
Nadal 10-6
Djokovic 23-9

 

[BackhandDTL]

Using that logic then Kyrgios is some kind of super athlete, he's 2-0 against Djokovic. Med's won 7 titles in his entire career, he's not some kind of titan in any slam final.

Med was borderline unbeatable on HC that year, but carry on.

 

[lud]

Potential matchups:
2020 - Djokovic wins
2019 - Nadal wins
2018 - Djokovic wins
2017 - Nadal wins
2016 - Djokovic wins
2015 - Djokovic wins
2014 - Djokovic wins
2013 - Nadal wins
2012 - Djokovic wins
2011 - Djokovic wins
2010 - Nadal wins
2009 - Djokovic wins
2008 - Djokovic wins
2007 - Djokovic wins

By this analysis, IT'S NOT Djokovic fault Rafa not reaching final as often as Djokovic.

 

[BackhandDTL]

Potential matchups:
2020 - Djokovic wins
2019 - Nadal wins
2018 - Djokovic wins
2017 - Nadal wins
2016 - Djokovic wins
2015 - Djokovic wins
2014 - Djokovic wins
2013 - Nadal wins
2012 - Djokovic wins
2011 - Djokovic wins
2010 - Nadal wins
2009 - Djokovic wins
2008 - Djokovic wins
2007 - Djokovic wins

By this analysis, IT'S NOT Djokovic fault Rafa not reaching final as often as Djokovic.

10-4 is a different story than 7-1

 

[lud]

10-4 is a different story than 7-1

Once again, where was Nadal during years when Djokovic dominated AO? It would be 7-2 not 2-0.

 

[Third Serve]

Timing.

 

[BackhandDTL]

Once again, where was Nadal during years when Djokovic dominated AO? It would be 7-2 not 2-0.

Where was Djokovic in 2009, 2014, 2017, 2018?

very easy to create these hypotheticals. Bottom line is prime Nadal beat prime Djokovic at USO 2013

 

[zagor]

Med was borderline unbeatable on HC that year, but carry on.

Who's Med?

 

[MeatTornado]

Because he's not the clearly superior player. He happens to have 1 more title because that's the way the cookie crumbles sometimes.

Novak has a higher winning % and has played in 3 more finals than Nadal has. He made the semis for 10 straight years at one point. If not for the fluke DQ this year, there's about a 90% chance we're talking about Novak having 4 titles and Nadal has little to no argument over him in New York.

At the end of the day all you really want is titles, so I think basically everyone would still prefer Nadal's haul at the USO. But that doesn't actually make him the "superior" player there. And if you all you care about is the H2H, a 1 win advantage doesn't clearly define anything.

 

[RS]

Potential matchups:
2020 - Djokovic wins
2019 - Nadal wins
2018 - Djokovic wins
2017 - Nadal wins
2016 - Djokovic wins
2015 - Djokovic wins
2014 - Djokovic wins
2013 - Nadal wins
2012 - Djokovic wins
2011 - Djokovic wins
2010 - Nadal wins
2009 - Djokovic wins
2008 - Djokovic wins
2007 - Djokovic wins

By this analysis, IT'S NOT Djokovic fault Rafa not reaching final as often as Djokovic.

2017 and 2020 doesn’t count for both. 2012 is debateworthy as Nole lost to AM.

2008 doesn’t count as both lost in the SF and 2009 for the same reason.

 

[Lew II]

Matches vs Federer:

Djokovic 6
Nadal 0

 

[Tony48]

The U.S. Open is but one tournament. He only has one less than Federer. If he matches Federer, are you going to ask the same question?

 

[FrontHeadlock]

Where was Djokovic in 2009, 2014, 2017, 2018?

very easy to create these hypotheticals. Bottom line is prime Nadal beat prime Djokovic at USO 2013

And USO 2010, unless you're one of those people who believed Djokovic's level "naturally" changed by leaps and bounds from September 2010 to January 2011. I am not.

 

[Start da Game]

god-mode rafa is unbeatable regardless of the surface........2010 and 2013 proved that, 2017 and 2019 fraudovic ran away from the contests........they would have been thrashed as usual.........who can forget fraud tanking against labredo tommy in round 4 lmfao........

 

[FrontHeadlock]

Because he's not the clearly superior player. He happens to have 1 more title because that's the way the cookie crumbles sometimes.

Novak has a higher winning % and has played in 3 more finals than Nadal has. He made the semis for 10 straight years at one point. If not for the fluke DQ this year, there's about a 90% chance we're talking about Novak having 4 titles and Nadal has little to no argument over him in New York.

At the end of the day all you really want is titles, so I think basically everyone would still prefer Nadal's haul at the USO. But that doesn't actually make him the "superior" player there. And if you all you care about is the H2H, a 1 win advantage doesn't clearly define anything.

It's pretty impossible to argue that Rafa is some clay specialist if he has more titles at the most prestigious hard court event in the world than someone who is possibly the best hard court player of all time.

Let's also not forget that Rafa definitely had a good chance to win the 2012, 2014 and 2020 USOs if not for injury.

 

[MeatTornado]

It's pretty impossible to argue that Rafa is some clay specialist if he has more titles at the most prestigious hard court event in the world than someone who is possibly the best hard court player of all time.

Let's also not forget that Rafa definitely had a good chance to win the 2012, 2014 and 2020 USOs if not for injury.

There are so many reasons to say Nadal isn't a clay court specialist.

Trying to say he's a better US Open player than Novak isn't one of them.

 

[FrontHeadlock]

There are so many reasons to say Nadal isn't a clay court specialist.

Trying to say he's a better US Open player than Novak isn't one of them.

I didn't say that, nor do I think he is for that matter.

 

[UnderratedSlam]

How is the filthy New York Open "superior" to AO?

Explanation please.

A logical one, fact-based if possible.

 

[FrontHeadlock]

How is the filthy New York Open "superior" to AO?

Explanation please.

A logical one, fact-based if possible.

History, tradition, location, placement in season calendar, lay prestige, etc.

 

[UnderratedSlam]

History, tradition, location, placement in season calendar, lay prestige, etc.

I asked for a logical explanation...

Try again.

 

[Djokovic2011]

Lol@ Nadal being clearly superior.

 

[MeatTornado]

I didn't say that, nor do I think he is for that matter.

Ah, I see. Surely you can understand why I was confused.

 

[Eren]

It's all about the timing.

That's why you should analyze an entire career on HC instead of just the H2H against a particular player in one specific tournament.

Still bugs me a little that Nadal has more USOs than Djokovic but he has only himself to blame.

 

[Tennis_Freak99]

Their careers are not over yet. Discuss this after they have hung their racquets. Djokodal aren't done picking USO's

 

[I Am Finnish]

Berrettini open

 

[TennisProExpert]

He’s not clearly superior. Any of Novak’s 2007-2010 or 2012 forms would easily win 2017 or 2019 editions. Same goes for 2009, 2010, 2011, 2015 Federer at the event.
Nadal got lucky with his timing. These things happen.

 

[AceSalvo]

Berrettini open

Bery bery easy answer no?

 

[Beckerserve]

it boggles the mind that rafa is called a clay specialist and still took the supposed hc goat to the cleaners not once but twice on his best surface and the most prestigious hc slam...not only that he has more titles to boot.

This is not even a debate. Nadal is a much better deco turf hard court player than Djokovic. More USO and Canadian Opens and also a hattrick of IWs as well.
Nadal is probably better than Federer as well. 4 titles is a very small number for what Nadal should have had. If fit he would have won 2012 2014 2018 and but for Covid 2020. That is 8 titles he could easily be sitting on. He lost in a decade only 3 completed matches in NY. Djokovic 2011 Fogini 2015 and pouille 2016. The last two he was hopelessly out of form
Actually it is a career enhancer for Djokovic he is the only player to have beaten an in form Nadal at USO since 2009.
Nadal is a supreme player in New York and best i have seen there.

 

[Benben245]

The phrasing of these title posts comes straight from the clickbait handbook where the cringe crew meets sycophantic circle jerkers. Having said that, no one stands to profit from the traffic here other that TTW, so I feel for the OP, the origins of his posting is not derived from sadism but instead are inborn from delusions of grandeur leading to disappointment and self-hatred.

 

[Deleted member 21996]

Dominik Hrbaty has a 3-1 h2h vs Jeringuillas....

Therefore Hrbaty is a far superior tennis player

 

[Phoenix1983]

He's not.

 

[Phoenix1983]

It's about the draws. Nadal's bad luck at the AO has been offset by his good luck at the USO. Nadal deserves his 5 hard court slams. But he should probably have had 3 at the USO and 2 at the AO.

Djokovic ran into prime Fed 3 years in a row at the USO from 2007-2009. That was in the middle of Fed going to 6 consecutive USO finals with 5 straight wins. With no prime Fed, Djoker probably takes 2 of those titles right there. 2017 USO: Nadal faced 0 players in the top 20.

USO vs top-10 players
Nadal 7-5
Djokovic 12-7

USO vs top-20 players
Nadal 10-6
Djokovic 23-9

This was a better response than this thread deserved - but correct analysis.

 

[RF-18]

11 HC slams vs 5. 5 Wimbledons vs 2. Sorry

 

[DSH]

Because the level and performance of Joker in NY never met the expectations that many of his fans believed of him.

 

[Winners or Errors]

Blue clay.

 

[duaneeo]

Really, no way should a supposed HC GOAT (at peak/prime age) be losing to Murray, Wawrinka, and Nishikori at the USO. The most-titles record at the USO should be firmly in Nole's hands.

 

[TheNachoMan]

Novak got Stan in his USO 13 semi. Went five sets and tired him out
RAFA got Gasquet

 

[DSH]

Novak got Stan in his USO 13 semi. Went five sets and tired him out
RAFA got Gasquet

Djokovic got Gasquet at Wimbledon 2015.
Federer got Murray.

 

[Third Serve]

Med was borderline unbeatable on HC that year, but carry on.

Dude lol

 

[junior74]

Rafa has the extremely rare Berrettini Open+Djokovic Open double. GOAT.

Stands alone!

 

[FrontHeadlock]

Novak got Stan in his USO 13 semi. Went five sets and tired him out
RAFA got Gasquet

Nadal had Fed in his quarter that year lmao