Why Is Serve Volley Tennis Dead?
- Thread starter edberg volleys
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edberg volleys
Hall of Fame
Could not disagree more
TennisGrandpA
Rookie
Some ttw scholars think that players stopped playing out of sheer boredom and has nothing to do with it becoming almost irrelevant.
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Aabye5
G.O.A.T.
what were Shap and Carlitos playing with last night? They kept trying to rush the net.
ojo rojo
Legend
Tiny sample size
Aabye5
G.O.A.T.
True, but it's also about skills. So many of the top ten reach the net and then seem out of their depth. Zed, Fritz, Rubles...
Even Mischa Zverev was able to see some success with it. Some of it comes down to a lack of training. Much like the one-hander.
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
Watching alcaraz matches , it's pretty clear that the sport is going for less precision and more sheer POWER.
Meaning we are going far away from s&v. They even broke down Tsitsipas to use a babolat racket.
Meaning we are going far away from s&v. They even broke down Tsitsipas to use a babolat racket.
ShahofTennis
Hall of Fame
Because no one wants to get passed.
TennisGrandpA
Rookie
Basically it’s risk to reward ratio, SnV is not rewarding anymore so why would a young prodigy hone his skill around SnV? It makes absolutely no sense at all.
Shaolin
Talk Tennis Guru
But TW experts have determined that Carlos is only 5'7 so he can't be only about power.
Lleytonstation
Talk Tennis Guru
Ferrer and Schwartzman had power at times too.But TW experts have determined that Carlos is only 5'7 so he can't be only about power.
Lleytonstation
Talk Tennis Guru
It is a technology thing that advanced the skill level and made it obsolete as far as using it consistently.
Same thing with stand-up goalies in the NHL. Now they are all butterfly goalies.
Same thing with stand-up goalies in the NHL. Now they are all butterfly goalies.
Shaolin
Talk Tennis Guru
Carlos is shrinking though. He has gone down in size every year on here.
Soon he will be no taller than the net.
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
Tennis would be like basketball for tiny Carlos ?
Lleytonstation
Talk Tennis Guru
socallefty
G.O.A.T.
Poly era - too easy to pass with increased spin and angles for the returner. Big serves are setting up +1 ground strokes off short returns and these are easier to execute than first volleys - so preferred pattern is to put away S+1 groundstroke. About 70% of ATP points still end in 4 shots by the R+1 shot and so it is a fallacy that points are much longer. They don’t end with volleys as much.
Shaolin
Talk Tennis Guru
PedrosCousin
Rookie
Could not agree more with your disagreeing with his ridiculous opinion. Some of the best, most entertaining matches I've ever seen were between a S&Ver and a baseliner. (Sampras-Agassi)Could not disagree more
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
That was 23 years ago now. There might be some members younger than that. Even world number 3 alcaraz who is generational talent was not born back then.
TennisGrandpA
Rookie
Another things is SnV legends of past would be toast and get destroyed today by elite baselines of modern times , so such match ups would be nonexistent.
ojo rojo
Legend
Maxime Cressy tries
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
My only point is when you go back 23 years to find a good example, that means the s&v has been dead for too long .
We did not give example of Mischa Zverev vs Andy Murray which itself was 8 years ago. But 23 years ago is too far back. It is not correct criteria to say it's enjoyable because it was 23 + years ago. We need recent examples.
PedrosCousin
Rookie
I'm not saying it should still exist because it was effective 20 years ago. I'm just reacting to the "boring" comment.
WYK
Hall of Fame
Points also don't end with serves as much. What put people off was not the AWESOME volleying they were seeing by the likes of Edberg or Sampras or Rafter and Becker, but the 'serve botting'. I often hear the 4-5 shot stat myself. But that takes in the average, and clay courts were always slow, even back in the day, but no one had a Pure Aero or PD to help end the point back then.
When you saw the likes of Safin and Sampras squaring off, there's gonna be a lot of aces, even off the second serve. There will be a lot of 1 shot points. That sort of tells the story - few people can consistently ace off their first serves nowadays, whereas back in the mid 90's, badasses were consistently acing their second serves, or hititng unreturnable second serves like Sampras' 120mph slice on a low bouncing surface. That says a lot about the courts, racquets, balls, and players of the time.
edberg volleys
Hall of Fame
Mustard
Bionic Poster
Poly strings discourage regular serve and volley play. Why? Because it's easier with poly strings to return better and rally better from the baseline, getting the necessary power, depth and authority in the shots on a consistent basis. It was simply harder to do that with gut strings, so it would encourage players to go to the net to finish points off faster.
Edberg in this era would simply have to play differently, such as rallying more from the baseline and waiting his chance to be aggressive, along with some serve and volley as a surprise tactic.
Go back even further to the wooden racquet days, certainly post-Kramer up until around 1973, and a huge number of male players were serve and volleyers everywhere. Kramer's defeat of Riggs on the 1947-48 World Pro Tour, where Kramer overcame an early deficit by charging the net constantly off serves to defeat Riggs, changed so much in terms of how tennis was played at the top level for a long time to come. It wasn't really until Connors that this changed. Connors was raised by women to conquer men, and was a boy playing a girl's style of game for the time, with a lot of baseline play.
Edberg in this era would simply have to play differently, such as rallying more from the baseline and waiting his chance to be aggressive, along with some serve and volley as a surprise tactic.
Go back even further to the wooden racquet days, certainly post-Kramer up until around 1973, and a huge number of male players were serve and volleyers everywhere. Kramer's defeat of Riggs on the 1947-48 World Pro Tour, where Kramer overcame an early deficit by charging the net constantly off serves to defeat Riggs, changed so much in terms of how tennis was played at the top level for a long time to come. It wasn't really until Connors that this changed. Connors was raised by women to conquer men, and was a boy playing a girl's style of game for the time, with a lot of baseline play.
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Smecz
Professional
A lot of wisdom,I have noticed that the amount of natural strings purchased has decreased quite a bit, there is a greater chance for hybrids of natural strings with poly...
Probably with the end line game, the number of runs has increased, but winning points is more important.!!
Lobbing, passing shots from the field are much better, so players should focus on the quality of their game at the net.!!
In order for it to be worth going to the net in modern tennis, the opponent must be under ultra defense.!!!
And if a player is to play serve and volley, it should be at a score of 30:0 or 40:0 to win his serve game.!
It's better to build qualitatively individual serve and volley attacks, than if players stopped playing serve and volley altogether!!!
Mustard
Bionic Poster
If the powers that be want to encourage serve and volley, then they need to make it harder for players to dictate rallies from the back of the court with power, depth and authority. This would then encourage players to come to the net to finish off points quicker before they make errors. I can't see the powers that be doing that. They are more likely to go the other way, and make it easier to rally from the back even more, which will mean more grinding baseline rallies.
Mustard
Bionic Poster
I remember Agassi practicing with poly strings around 2001, and he said that it would change tennis if it became widespread. When Agassi took up poly strings properly, he won the 2002 Italian Open in Rome without dropping a set, soon after winning 2002 Key Biscayne (his last match win over Federer in the final) with gut strings.
Because baseline hitters have a split more seconds to react now compared with the past. I am not sure poly would be still that effective on fast court.
Edit: I mean both poly and court speed played a role in eliminating S&V play but the latter played a far more dominant role.
Edit: I mean both poly and court speed played a role in eliminating S&V play but the latter played a far more dominant role.
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Martin J
Rookie
If that's the only reason, player like Sampras would never beat Kuerten (the 2000 Miami final, best of five), who was already using poly, or Agassi (already switched to the new strings) in the USO final in 2002. It is not that simple. Players still employ serve and volley on grass because it's simply effective, it's just that there aren't many skillful volleyers out there.
ojo rojo
Legend
Of course. My abbreviated comment with zero nuance still plays a large role as to why
Smecz
Professional
What do you see as a solution to this situation?!
Mustard
Bionic Poster
I don't have a strong opinion either way on this matter, but the people who are always complaining about serve and volley being less prominent need to understand why that is. Too many people say things like the surfaces being slowed down, when it's actually got far more to do with how the racquet and string tech of modern times enables consistent error-free rallies from the baseline with greater regularity.
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
Serve And Volley Dead?
Over the last few years, I feel that the number of tennis players who serve and volley on the tour has gone way down. The few remaining ones like Henman, Mirnyi, and Dent are nowhere near the top 100. Do you guys think that, as time progresses, baseliners will eventually overpower the touch...
tt.tennis-warehouse.com
Reading this thread is funny. People thought pete was so great he would win in poly era serve and volleying. Lmao.
When changes happen, you have to adopt. And I think s&v on more than 50% of serve points is not going to work in sports anytime in future. It has evolved past that phase a long time ago.
Lleytonstation
Talk Tennis Guru
Yeah, its not coming back. Physics is a real thing, and the physics will never reverse and make it easier to play serve and volley with the new racket and string technologies.
It can still be effective from time to time though.
Smecz
Professional
That's why players should go to the net most of the time when they have a very sure point, to save the rest of the game at the net...
But for this you need an incredible feeling and recognition of which ball is worth it to go to the net, and not run blindly...
The game at the net will never disappear, but serve and volley can...ehh
Vincent-C
Legend
5'5"
Vincent-C
Legend
I think the courts and balls have a lot to do with it, too. Plus the coaches are generally out of their depth with SVnV.
Vincent-C
Legend
Bring back Taylor Dent w/ faster courts and balls. Now you're talkin..
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nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
I can't think why coaches are at fault at all. There is still some s&v today and that is coached by someone.
Coaches have zero fault I think. They still teach it but it's very impractical to go to net a lot nowadays.
It's like saying why people don't dropshot every third ball
WYK
Hall of Fame
I'll also just leave this here:
Roger Federer VS Gustavo Kuerten | Head 2 Head | H2H | ATP Tour | Tennis
Head to head records for players in men's professional tennis. View rivalry results and stats for matches on the ATP Tour.
www.atptour.com
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ibbi
G.O.A.T.
Where once it was a necessity because of how difficult it was to play aggressively from the baseline with those old racquets and on those old courts, now it is not.
The racquets are basically paddles a child can play with and the courts are perfectly manicured to almost entirely eliminate bad bounces. High risk has been traded for the comparatively lower risk.
These racquets/strings also make it significantly easier to hit a pass/lob, making the style even more high risk than it used to be when everyone did it.
The racquets are basically paddles a child can play with and the courts are perfectly manicured to almost entirely eliminate bad bounces. High risk has been traded for the comparatively lower risk.
These racquets/strings also make it significantly easier to hit a pass/lob, making the style even more high risk than it used to be when everyone did it.
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
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