Why is Wawrinka better than Haas?

heninfan99

Talk Tennis Guru
Is it just the mind & the serve? Magnus Norman?
Their games seem equal otherwise...
 
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Nostradamus

Bionic Poster
Serve is bigger and heavier. Backhand has more power and more topspin. and Overall bigger game that can hurt anyone on tour including Novak.

but Haas volleys better
 

yellowoctopus

Professional
IMHO: Not better, just better results. Mr. Wawrinka 'wanted it' more than Mr. Haas.

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PhrygianDominant

Hall of Fame
Haas can't dominate the short ball from the back of the court off either side as well as IronStan

Stan just hits bigger off both sides and more consistently. Haas never had the putaway forehand that Stan now has.
 

burn1986

Banned
Why is Wawrinka better than Haas?!

C'mon dude. Really?!

Stan is younger. Haas has battled these same guys in their prime. Wawrinka has battled them out of their prime (Djok maybe healthy, but Fed beat him up intil lately, Rafa was injured).
 

President

Legend
Wawrinka just has a lot more power and spin on his shots than Tommy has had since his injuries kicked in (and to be fair, I think Stan is more powerful than Tommy ever was). That is crucial in this slow court era, you need massive power to hit through the court unless you are an incredible defender. Haas has always lacked some firepower, so his strokes are better on quicker courts.
 
Thread seems to be implying Haas's backhand is on the level of Wawrinka's. It's not. Wawrinka's is one of the Top 2 BH weapons on tour (with Gasquet). Haas's isn't even a weapon.

Not sure why the hype for Haas's backhand, other than it being a one hander that appeals to some people mechanically.

Haas has been pretty successful because he has a solid overall game.
 

Mainad

Bionic Poster
WTH does that mean?

It's a quote from the Irish writer, Samuel Beckett. It basically means to keep trying and if you keep failing, then make your next failure a lot less obvious (fail better) until eventually you will fail so well, you won't fail at all! ;-)

Seems to have done wonders for Stan!
 

bjsnider

Hall of Fame
Haas can't take control of a tennis point the way Wawrinka can. Haas just doesn't have those kinds of weapons. Wawrinka is better because he hits the ball cleaner and harder.
 

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
Thread seems to be implying Haas's backhand is on the level of Wawrinka's. It's not. Wawrinka's is one of the Top 2 BH weapons on tour (with Gasquet). Haas's isn't even a weapon.

Not sure why the hype for Haas's backhand, other than it being a one hander that appeals to some people mechanically.

Haas has been pretty successful because he has a solid overall game.
Disagree. Haas has a great backhand. He has one of the best down-the-line 1HBHs in pro tennis, along with Wawrinka. The problem with Haas is mostly mental. He gets upset way too easily and then loses it. He also sometimes makes poor decisions on the court. Also, his forehand is just average, not great.
 

NatF

Bionic Poster
Wawrinka is better off both wings and has a better serve. He can also volley well and has good touch. These last two are easily up to competing with Haas in the same categories IMO.
 

burn1986

Banned
When are we comparing Wawrinka to Haas anyway? Wawrinka was ranked higher than Haas the last time I checked. Plus Haas is about 8-10 yrs older than him.
 
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SpinToWin

Talk Tennis Guru
for crying out loud, Hass is 8 years older than Stan!! Comparing them at this point is useless. Haas also had to always step back due to several injuries and surgeries in the shoulder. Otherwise he was the world number 2 and surely would have won a slam at some point, but his body did not last unfortunately as he is very injury prone. Still, Haas made it to number 14 in the world at 35 years of age! He has a great backhand and I want to see any other 35 year old playing a backhand like he does.
 

Crisp

Professional
Why do you think he is? I don't know that he is. Does winning one slam automatically make you better then someone who hasn't won one.
 

kOaMaster

Hall of Fame
Haas was one of the "always injured"-guys and I don't think he ever had more than 1-2 years without a longer/more serious injury.

He was told a big future back in 2002 but injuries and an accident in his family threw him back a lot.
I can't think of any other played reaching the top10 again after being away from the tour for one and a half years!

hell, this guy is 36 and still in the top20. that is something only players like agassi and connors accomplished recently!
 
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jg153040

G.O.A.T.
Because having the goat as your doubles partner and training partner and your best friend helps :).

Consciousness is contagious. This is a fact of psychology.

That's why fat people associate with fat people, fit with fit. Rich with rich, poor with poor.

Show me five people you spent most of time with and I will show you who you are. You are usually the average of five people you spend your time with.

Einstein and your mama was right. Be careful who your friends are, because you will become like them.

So, if you want to change your life, you need to change your company.
 

Bobby Jr

G.O.A.T.
Something has clicked for Wawrinka and he's become the new Del Potro.. a guy who can hit anyone off the court if he's playing well.

The key is, as with Del Potro, how do you take a bit-hitting game and make it work week-in week-out? He has plugged along all these years and rarely made it work for long enough to matter - but suddenly he's found the way to make it happen. I'm picking Norman has had a big part in this - giving him the "why go down wondering, go for more shots" pep talk enough that it is starting to work. You only get good at doing that by doing it often and it is a game-plan that has seen many big hitters lose in epic fashion more often than not. His maturity will be playing a big part in focussing his temperament to the game-plan which has been working for him.

This is also why, another similarity with Del Potro, that you see weeks like the recent Davis Cup where he struggled with low ranked players. This style of play is the hardest sort of play to maintain - way harder than being merely dependable all the time and hoping you peak in later rounds of tournaments.

Whatever Wawrinka did it is clearly working when it matters most. I'd still pick Djokovic, Federer and Nadal to do better year-round but if he can channel the sort of hitting out form he showed here and at the AO he'll be hard to beat for any of the top guys.
 
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dje31

Professional
Because Stan is juicing? How else would you explain his sudden, meteoric rise, so late in his career?!

D'oh! Now I've gone and done it...

FLAME ON!
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.
.
.
.
.
Just kidding. It's nice to see the guy on a roll, and I appreciate his game. He's been long overdue. There may yet be hope for a resurgence of an attacking, all-court game ( fingers crossed ) . That, too, is long overdue
 
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TeamOB

Professional
Haas is way overrated. Just having pretty 1-hander doesn't make him a legend. Wawrinka is superior in all aspects of the game except maybe at net. Stan has a better serve, MUCH heavier groundies, and since 2013 has a much better mental game. Haas is just another Gasquet. A guy who got way overhyped due to the casual fans ridiculous infatuation with the 1 handed backhand.
 

monfed

Banned
Wawrinka just has more heavy artillery compared to Haas, more power and can hit people off the court which Haas couldn't. Haas is more talented than Wawrinka.
 

stringertom

Bionic Poster
Iron Stan vs papier-mâché Haas...as simple as that. Stan has stayed healthy long enough to see his peak at a relatively late stage of his career. Haas came along and started to peak at a much younger age but then succumbed to a litany of injuries and the long layoff to aid his injured parents. I think Haas might have reached a higher level than Stan now possesses if he hadn't been derailed. It's only conjecture, though.
 

SpinToWin

Talk Tennis Guru
Iron Stan vs papier-mâché Haas...as simple as that. Stan has stayed healthy long enough to see his peak at a relatively late stage of his career. Haas came along and started to peak at a much younger age but then succumbed to a litany of injuries and the long layoff to aid his injured parents. I think Haas might have reached a higher level than Stan now possesses if he hadn't been derailed. It's only conjecture, though.

thank you for the rare common sense. +1

Comparing their careers makes no sense as they are too different. Furthermore, they currently are in completely opposite stages of their career.
 

Anaconda

Hall of Fame
Haas was one of the "always injured"-guys and I don't think he ever had more than 1-2 years without a longer/more serious injury.

He was told a big future back in 2002 but injuries and an accident in his family threw him back a lot.
I can't think of any other played reaching the top10 again after being away from the tour for one and a half years!

hell, this guy is 36 and still in the top20. that is something only players like agassi and connors accomplished recently!

I think Haas could have won a slam in 2003 perhaps without injury and tending to his dad, although his biggest weakness aside from injuries is that he did choke, which would have hurt him.
 

NatF

Bionic Poster
I think Haas could have won a slam in 2003 perhaps without injury and tending to his dad, although his biggest weakness aside from injuries is that he did choke, which would have hurt him.

What slam do you think he could have won? All the winners of the slams in 2003 were pretty dominant and in excellent form.
 

Anaconda

Hall of Fame
What slam do you think he could have won? All the winners of the slams in 2003 were pretty dominant and in excellent form.

Hard to say, he matched up well with Federer and Roddick back then, Wimbledon or US Open perhaps, who knows. Safin was another one who could have, and probably would have done damage in 2003.
 

NatF

Bionic Poster
Hard to say, he matched up well with Federer and Roddick back then, Wimbledon or US Open perhaps, who knows. Safin was another one who could have, and probably would have done damage in 2003.

There's no certainty that he would have made it to Federer or Roddick though. Anyways I disagree but we'll never know what could of been with Haas so you might be right, maybe he would have snuck in and got a major.
 

Matt H.

Professional
His fastest serve on record is 136mph at Stuttgart in 2001.

Because it's been so long, people don't realize he had the power before his shoulder. Have you seen him in person? The dude is muscular and ripped. At 6'3" 190lbs he's capable of power, but the shoulder is the weak point.


I think Wimbledon and US Open of '02, and maybe AO '03 were his best shots at winning a slam. His shoulder injury popped up before the US Open and was hurt during his 3rd round match against Enqvist. If he had gotten thru Pete in the 4th round I think he wins that US Open. He owned Roddick that year, and Schalken would have been a breeze. Agassi was a bit gassed from the Hewitt SF.

In reality though he choked away the 02 Australian.
 

Anaconda

Hall of Fame
His fastest serve on record is 136mph at Stuttgart in 2001.

Because it's been so long, people don't realize he had the power before his shoulder. Have you seen him in person? The dude is muscular and ripped. At 6'3" 190lbs he's capable of power, but the shoulder is the weak point.


I think Wimbledon and US Open of '02, and maybe AO '03 were his best shots at winning a slam. His shoulder injury popped up before the US Open and was hurt during his 3rd round match against Enqvist. If he had gotten thru Pete in the 4th round I think he wins that US Open. He owned Roddick that year, and Schalken would have been a breeze. Agassi was a bit gassed from the Hewitt SF.

In reality though he choked away the 02 Australian.



In reality nothing. He lost to a superior talent.
 

edberg volleys

Hall of Fame
Something has clicked for Wawrinka and he's become the new Del Potro.. a guy who can hit anyone off the court if he's playing well.

The key is, as with Del Potro, how do you take a bit-hitting game and make it work week-in week-out? He has plugged along all these years and rarely made it work for long enough to matter - but suddenly he's found the way to make it happen. I'm picking Norman has had a big part in this - giving him the "why go down wondering, go for more shots" pep talk enough that it is starting to work. You only get good at doing that by doing it often and it is a game-plan that has seen many big hitters lose in epic fashion more often than not. His maturity will be playing a big part in focussing his temperament to the game-plan which has been working for him.

This is also why, another similarity with Del Potro, that you see weeks like the recent Davis Cup where he struggled with low ranked players. This style of play is the hardest sort of play to maintain - way harder than being merely dependable all the time and hoping you peak in later rounds of tournaments.

Whatever Wawrinka did it is clearly working when it matters most. I'd still pick Djokovic, Federer and Nadal to do better year-round but if he can channel the sort of hitting out form he showed here and at the AO he'll be hard to beat for any of the top guys.

Excellent post as always Bobby Jr and esp the bold part. Great analysis all in all.
 
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Anaconda

Hall of Fame
Haas has a winning record against Safin.

5-2 overall, 4-1 on hard/indoors.

So Santoro is a better player than Safin? Thanks!




BTW, I said superior talent. Safin is superior to Haas in every way save for the net game, in which Safin was no donkey himself.
 

West Coast Ace

G.O.A.T.
Stan just decided he wasn't willing to accept his previous level and worked on his weak points - FH and serve. And once they improved, so did his mental approach and ability/willingness to hang in matches where in the past he would have just folded up.

Haas could never shake his mental demons - letting one bad call/shot/decision affect him for many games - was his undoing. I wonder if he'd married, which really seems to have helped, at 28, if he couldn't have pulled out 1 or 2 majors. Now it's just too late.

Bottom line - like it or not it's all about majors (Gaudio being the one huge exception since that final was a joke/travesty).
 
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