Why Is Zverev Crucified But Kyrgios Gets A Free Pass?

Better_Call_Raul

Better_Call_Raul

Hall of Fame
Both are facing the same charges. Kyrgios has plead GUILTY to assault before trial. To avoid prison.
Zed has steadfastly proclaimed his innocence and has demanded a fair trial.
Yet there are calls for Zverev to resign from Player's Council while Kyrgious is hired and praised as a TV commentator.

We see that the hypocrisy here is just over the charts. And it is all just very troubling.
 
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public perception is everything. Nick comes off a previously damaged man who is now at peace with oneself. and considering nick does not even play anymore.
 
Better_Call_Raul said:
Both are facing the same charges. Kyrgios has plead GUILTY to assault before trial.
Zed has steadfastly proclaimed his innocence and has demanded a fair trial.
There are calls for Zverev to resign from Player's Council while Kyrgious is hired and praised as a TV commentator.

We see that the hypocrisy here is just over the charts. It is very troubling.
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Quotas have to met by broadcasters. Political correctness has to be seen to be done.
 
NatF said:
The specifics of the cases are different.
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He assaulted her and threatened her life. So no, the cases are not particularly different. Not at all.

The court heard Mr Kyrgios had sworn at Ms Passari and told her to go away. He then put his hands on her hips and moved her an arms length from the door, but Ms Passari stepped back.​
​
The tennis star then said: "I'm serious. I'm going to…" before pushing Ms Passari in the shoulder, causing her to fall.​
​
Ms Passari felt some pain and later noticed grazing on her knee, the court heard.​
​
www.bbc.com

Nick Kyrgios: Tennis star admits assaulting ex-girlfriend but avoids conviction

The Australian tennis star avoids a criminal conviction over the incident in Canberra in 2021.
www.bbc.com www.bbc.com
 
Better_Call_Raul said:
Both are facing the same charges. Kyrgios has plead GUILTY to assault before trial. To avoid prison.
Zed has steadfastly proclaimed his innocence and has demanded a fair trial.
Yet there are calls for Zverev to resign from Player's Council while Kyrgious is hired and praised as a TV commentator.

We see that the hypocrisy here is just over the charts. And it is all just very troubling.
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One of the problems with What Aboutism is that it's always unclear why the What Abouter is trying to give a free pass to the thing that they allege gets unfair criticism rather than trying to make sure that the thing that they think is currently getting a free pass gets appropriate scrutiny. In this case, the title could just as easily be, "Why is Kyrgios getting a free pass when Zverev is being crucified?" with the intent of saying that they should both be criticized.
 
Federer and Del Potro said:
Zed's ponytail is by far his biggest (known) crime.
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it's a (letsgoyelling) zviraffetail... :unsure:

giraffe-rear-legs-tail-against-260nw-1051797830.jpg
 
Better_Call_Raul said:
Both are facing the same charges. Kyrgios has plead GUILTY to assault before trial. To avoid prison.
Zed has steadfastly proclaimed his innocence and has demanded a fair trial.
Yet there are calls for Zverev to resign from Player's Council while Kyrgious is hired and praised as a TV commentator.

We see that the hypocrisy here is just over the charts. And it is all just very troubling.
Click to expand...
No hall pass here. He's a donut too.
 
Better_Call_Raul said:
One man has pled GUILTY to assault. The other man has proclaimed his innocence and wishes to clear his name at trial.
Yet you desire equal criticism. Very odd.
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I said that your What Aboutism made it unclear what you wanted, not what I wanted.

I don't regard a plea of not guilty as telling me much about a person's guilt. I rely upon the court's verdict. There are miscarriages of justice, of course, but a court verdict is more important than a plea. So, we'll see what happens when the case comes to trial.
 
helterskelter said:
I said that your What Aboutism made it unclear what you wanted, not what I wanted.

I don't regard a plea of not guilty as telling me much about a person's guilt. I rely upon the court's verdict. There are miscarriages of justice, of course, but a court verdict is more important than a plea. So, we'll see what happens when the case comes to trial.
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A plea of guilty is an admission of the crime and is stronger than any court verdict. As such, criticism is warranted.
OTOH, there is no reason that a presumptively innocent man, that has loudly proclaimed his innocence, and demanded a trial, be criticized.
You are asking that both be criticized equally. You make no sense.
 
Better_Call_Raul said:
A plea of guilty is an admission of the crime and is stronger than any court verdict. As such, criticism is warranted.
OTOH, there is no reason that a presumptively innocent man, that has loudly proclaimed his innocence, and demanded a trial, be criticized.
You are asking that both be criticized equally. You make no sense.
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"Innocent until proven guilty" is a principle of criminal law. It's not a necessary principle of interpersonal morality. (It's not even a principle of civil law). Zverev shouldn't be criminally punished without trial, but that doesn't mean he shouldn't face personal criticism. If you want to regard him as not deserving criticism, go ahead. But others won't agree.

Even if I agreed that a guilty plea was stronger than a court verdict (which I don't - many defendants plead guilty because their lawyers tell them to do so as the guilty plea will result in a less harsh verdict and the legal system is stacked against them; you can see this happen in any number of legal thrillers, and it is very much a true account of how the courts work), it still wouldn't follow that a not guilty plea told us that the defendant was not guilty. It just tells us that the defendant is willing to go to trial.
 
helterskelter said:
"Innocent until proven guilty" is a principle of criminal law. It's not a necessary principle of interpersonal morality. (It's not even a principle of civil law). Zverev shouldn't be criminally punished without trial, but that doesn't mean he shouldn't face personal criticism. If you want to regard him as not deserving criticism, go ahead. But others won't agree.

Even if I agreed that a guilty plea was stronger than a court verdict (which I don't - many defendants plead guilty because their lawyers tell them to do so as the guilty plea will result in a less harsh verdict and the legal system is stacked against them; you can see this happen in any number of legal thrillers, and it is very much a true account of how the courts work), it still wouldn't follow that a not guilty plea told us that the defendant was not guilty. It just tells us that the defendant is willing to go to trial.
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Innocent until proven guilty depends on the law of the country you committed an alleged crime in.
 
Purestriker said:
Innocent until proven guilty depends on the law of the country you committed an alleged crime in.
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True, good point. But my point was that it's just not something that ordinary people do or should presume whenever someone is accused of a crime, or for that matter of non-criminal bad behavior. It applies, insofar as it applies at all, only to criminal law, because such criminal punishment is so coercive.
 
You better go to Eurosport headquarter and make a big protest there.

Becker was sentenced to 2.5 years and he was employed straight away by Eurosport too. Kyrgios' charge was dismissed by the judge because she thought his offence was deemed as low-level. It was his girlfriend who blocked him from leaving to drive his car away from her to avoid more fighting with her.

Schapelle Corby stayed in a Bali jail for 9 years for smuggling marijuana and she landed an Aussie TV interview deal and a documentary book as well.

You should know by now the world revolves around the media. Anything that sells, media is willing to pay big for it. That's why Rupert Murdoch is so rich.

Media is power.
 
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helterskelter said:
Even if I agreed that a guilty plea was stronger than a court verdict (which I don't - many defendants plead guilty because their lawyers tell them to do so as the guilty plea will result in a less harsh verdict and the legal system is stacked against them; you can see this happen in any number of legal thrillers, and it is very much a true account of how the courts work),
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That does not apply here. Celebs are coddled by the legal system.
In this case, we have a celeb who has pleaded GUILTY to assault rather than going to trial. Draw your own conclusions.
In the other case, a man has steadfastly proclaimed his innocence and wants his day in court. I choose to withhold judgement and not criticize.
You do not. You wish to criticize based on accusations. Domestic abuse accusations are not clear-cut. Women sometimes lie and/or exaggerate.
That is your right. And also why you would likely be excluded from serving on a Jury. (BTW, Germany has no Jury System).

One case has been settled with an admission of guilt. The other case is totally up in the air.
You are bending over backward to throw WhatAbout-ism accusations based on two vastly dissimilar cases.
 
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The two cases are only superficially the same. But the reality is that Ben Rothenberg has pushed the story about Zverev, for better or worse.
 
Better_Call_Raul said:
Both are facing the same charges. Kyrgios has plead GUILTY to assault before trial. To avoid prison.
Zed has steadfastly proclaimed his innocence and has demanded a fair trial.
Yet there are calls for Zverev to resign from Player's Council while Kyrgious is hired and praised as a TV commentator.

We see that the hypocrisy here is just over the charts. And it is all just very troubling.
Click to expand...
It has to do with the term "Inclusion."

One player is white, the other player is not.
 
Kyrgios got a pretty hard time from people when he was around. When I say people I mean people on the internet. Nobody public that I know of, no corporation of any kind, has taken any issue with either of them. Nick hasn't played tennis for a year either, so he's not around in the same kind of spotlight to annoy people the way Zverev is.

Also, and correct me if I'm wrong, but the Kyrgios case was dismissed in court and described there as of low-level seriousness. He shoved her. Is Zverev accused of a shove, or more?
 
Better_Call_Raul said:
Both are facing the same charges. Kyrgios has plead GUILTY to assault before trial. To avoid prison.
Zed has steadfastly proclaimed his innocence and has demanded a fair trial.
Yet there are calls for Zverev to resign from Player's Council while Kyrgious is hired and praised as a TV commentator.

We see that the hypocrisy here is just over the charts. And it is all just very troubling.
Click to expand...
Once the judicial process is complete, the matter is ordinarily considered closed. Punishment is the preserve of the court system not individual members of the public.
 
The ATP hired private investigators to conduct a 15-month long investigation into the accusations by the ex-wife.
To be clear, this is a private investigation. But the burden of proof of misconduct is far lower than a criminal trial.
The ATP would have been very happy to take strong disciplinary action if any credible evidence of misconduct was found.
But the lengthy ATP investigation found no credible conclusive proof of improper conduct by Zverev.

Timeline:
  • October 2021: The ATP investigation was launched following media reports and interviews where Patea made her accusations public.
  • This investigation was conducted by an independent investigator hired by the ATP and focused on potential violations of the ATP's Player Major Offenses rule, which prohibits "conduct detrimental to the integrity of the sport."
  • October 2021 - January 2023: Independent investigator conducts interviews with witnesses, reviews evidence, and gathers information.
  • January 2023: Investigator submits final report to the ATP.
  • January 31, 2023: ATP announces the conclusion of the investigation, stating there was insufficient evidence to substantiate the allegations and no disciplinary action would be taken against Zverev.
 
coacho said:
Kyrgios commentating makes me want to watch something else. I am too old to think he is cool. He comes across to me as a self indulgent spoiled punk. Media wants him to appeal to younger people, but I don’t think it’s going to work.
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and how good a basketball player is he. Probably not even a division 3 benchwarmer
 
There are two separate complaints against Zverev. One, this one, went away. The other has not.

Better_Call_Raul said:
The ATP hired private investigators to conduct a 15-month long investigation into the accusations by the ex-wife.
To be clear, this is a private investigation. But the burden of proof of misconduct is far lower than a criminal trial.
The ATP would have been very happy to take strong disciplinary action if any credible evidence of misconduct was found.
But the lengthy ATP investigation found no credible conclusive proof of improper conduct by Zverev.

Timeline:
  • October 2021: The ATP investigation was launched following media reports and interviews where Patea made her accusations public.
  • This investigation was conducted by an independent investigator hired by the ATP and focused on potential violations of the ATP's Player Major Offenses rule, which prohibits "conduct detrimental to the integrity of the sport."
  • October 2021 - January 2023: Independent investigator conducts interviews with witnesses, reviews evidence, and gathers information.
  • January 2023: Investigator submits final report to the ATP.
  • January 31, 2023: ATP announces the conclusion of the investigation, stating there was insufficient evidence to substantiate the allegations and no disciplinary action would be taken against Zverev.
Click to expand...
 
The accuser in the upcoming German trial is Patea.
The accuser in the 15 month long recently concluded ATP investigation that yielded no credible evidence is Patea.
Both the German trial and ATP investigation involve the same woman. Are you claiming the ATP is currently investigating allegations from another woman?

Bartelby said:
There are two separate complaints against Zverev. One, this one, went away. The other has not.
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Better_Call_Raul said:
He assaulted her and threatened her life. So no, the cases are not particularly different. Not at all.

The court heard Mr Kyrgios had sworn at Ms Passari and told her to go away. He then put his hands on her hips and moved her an arms length from the door, but Ms Passari stepped back.​
​
The tennis star then said: "I'm serious. I'm going to…" before pushing Ms Passari in the shoulder, causing her to fall.​
​
Ms Passari felt some pain and later noticed grazing on her knee, the court heard.​
​
www.bbc.com

Nick Kyrgios: Tennis star admits assaulting ex-girlfriend but avoids conviction

The Australian tennis star avoids a criminal conviction over the incident in Canberra in 2021.
www.bbc.com www.bbc.com
Click to expand...
She blocked his way and he moved her out of his way, the first time in a completely non-violent manner, are you arguing that people have a right to obstruct others because they are women?
 
My respect for Z has increased manifold the moment he decided to fight the case in court and prove his innocence. If Z is guilty then he should be locked in jail and if he's not his image should be restored and ttw should apologize to my boy.
 
You're wrong. The ATP investigated Sharypova. The upcoming trial is over Patea.

Better_Call_Raul said:
The accuser in the upcoming German trial is Patea.
The accuser in the 15 month long recently concluded ATP investigation that yielded no credible evidence is Patea.
Both the German trial and ATP investigation involve the same woman. Are you claiming the ATP is currently investigating allegations from another woman?
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Zverev was already found guilty by a German court, but he has the right to a full court hearing.

NeutralFan said:
My respect for Z has increased manifold the moment he decided to fight the case in court and prove his innocence. If Z is guilty then he should be locked in jail and if he's not his image should be restored and ttw should apologize to my boy.
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ibbi said:
Kyrgios got a pretty hard time from people when he was around. When I say people I mean people on the internet. Nobody public that I know of, no corporation of any kind, has taken any issue with either of them. Nick hasn't played tennis for a year either, so he's not around in the same kind of spotlight to annoy people the way Zverev is.

Also, and correct me if I'm wrong, but the Kyrgios case was dismissed in court and described there as of low-level seriousness. He shoved her. Is Zverev accused of a shove, or more?
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I'd say it's well deserved. The guy has given us a hard time over the last 10 years.

The sport would have been a lot better off without him.
 
Zverev is asserting his right to a full trial by a panel of three Judges.
Zverev has refused to pay a penny.
No guilt can ever be found until that happens. Stop rushing to judgement.

Bartelby said:
Zverev was already found guilty by a German court, but he has the right to a full court hearing.
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Alexander Zverev, the German tennis star who is accused of physically abusing the mother of his child, was ordered by a court in Berlin to pay a fine in the case, his lawyers said on Tuesday.

Zverev, 26, was ordered to pay fines totaling 450,000 euros, or about $474,000, by a criminal court in Berlin for physically abusing and injuring a woman during an argument in May 2020, a spokeswoman for the court said on Wednesday.

The tennis star denied the charges and objected to the fines, which would likely lead to a trial, the spokeswoman said.
www.nytimes.com

Zverev Is Fined in New Abuse Case Involving Former Partner (Published 2023)

The German tennis star was ordered to pay a penalty of 450,000 euros in a case involving the alleged physical abuse of the mother of his child, his lawyers said.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com
 
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I don't understand the German system, but the first judge did find him guilty so this is what I am merely reporting as a matter of fact.

I guess that something will happen behind the scenes causing the new trial to collapse or some such outcome.

Better_Call_Raul said:
Zverev is asserting his right to a full trial by a panel of three Judges.
No guilt can ever be found until that happens. Stop rushing to judgement.



Alexander Zverev, the German tennis star who is accused of physically abusing the mother of his child, was ordered by a court in Berlin to pay a fine in the case, his lawyers said on Tuesday.

Zverev, 26, was ordered to pay fines totaling 450,000 euros, or about $474,000, by a criminal court in Berlin for physically abusing and injuring a woman during an argument in May 2020, a spokeswoman for the court said on Wednesday.

The tennis star denied the charges and objected to the fines, which would likely lead to a trial, the spokeswoman said.
www.nytimes.com

Zverev Is Fined in New Abuse Case Involving Former Partner (Published 2023)

The German tennis star was ordered to pay a penalty of 450,000 euros in a case involving the alleged physical abuse of the mother of his child, his lawyers said.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com
Click to expand...
 
NeutralFan said:
My respect for Z has increased manifold the moment he decided to fight the case in court and prove his innocence. If Z is guilty then he should be locked in jail and if he's not his image should be restored and ttw should apologize to my boy.
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Well said. His case will become very political. Id love him to win the ao.
 
Bartelby said:
I guess that something will happen behind the scenes causing the new trial to collapse or some such outcome.
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The trial is scheduled to run for eight days. All the evidence will be properly presented in Court.
And Zverev will either be cleared or convicted.
Not clear where your "trial collapse" speculations are coming from.
 
You need to get out into the world and experience its vicissitudes.

Better_Call_Raul said:
The trial is scheduled to run for eight days. All the evidence will be properly presented in Court.
And Zverev will either be cleared or convicted.
Not clear where your "trial collapse" speculations are coming from.
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Nick was by far the least annoying man in the ESPN bunker. He’s maybe surprisingly actually pretty good — knows when to keep quiet and doesn‘t hit you with a constant stream of blather like McEnBros. I have no opinion on the outside stuff; I defer to Dr. Raul SJ BCR.
 
Better_Call_Raul said:
The trial is scheduled to run for eight days. All the evidence will be properly presented in Court.
And Zverev will either be cleared or convicted.
Not clear where your "trial collapse" speculations are coming from.
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Ryan giggs court case collapsed at the last minute. Wouldnt surprise me if same happened here
 
NeutralFan said:
My respect for Z has increased manifold the moment he decided to fight the case in court and prove his innocence. If Z is guilty then he should be locked in jail and if he's not his image should be restored and ttw should apologize to my boy.
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No one is going to jail with that DTL backhand.

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