Why isn't grunting considered gamesmanship?

It's up there with taking TWENTY-SEVEN seconds to serve instead of 25 or below as the worst crime humanity has ever seen to be honest. It's all a tactic to disrupt Fraud and mugs because Ralph and Djovak clearly can't deal with pressure situations properly or let their tennis do the talking on its own. Couple of cheating clowns I am telling you.

You are definitely the best Federer fan. Until today I thought that title belonged to me.
You’re supposed to be studying young man.
 

Mark-Touch

Professional
Because it is legal and within the rules. Federer needs to adapt to the grunting of Nadal and Djokovic, not the other way around. Nadal and Djokovic do not need to play in silence to please Federer, as it is within the rules and part of their routine.
What exactly is legal and within the rules?
Can you break this down for us?
Spell it out so it is perfectly clear?
 

King No1e

Legend
Also for the people using the "Djokovic grunts harder on big points therefore gamesmanship," remember that Federer also grunts occasionally on big points. It's not to distract, it's to create rhythm/flow.
 

King No1e

Legend
First of all, there have been many boxers who have been silent during their entire matches.
Second of all, you don't throw punches/blows in tennis, you hit a tennis ball with a racket.
Many =\= all. Just as there are many tennis players who don't grunt.
Second, throwing a punch and hitting a ball are different obviously, but they both involve striking with powerful force, hence grunting with the effort.

That said, some people do take it to another level. Sharapova does The Scream on drop shots and Berlocq's grunt is over the top.
 

Mark-Touch

Professional
To be fair there are a lot of WTA players (Serena for example) who grunt because of the actual effort.
Nah, you've been had, taken to the cleaners!
I've studied Serena's grunts closely as an exercise one time.
She grunts according to the score. If she's being beaten really badly, she can become quiet as a mouse.
Same strokes, nothing has changed except the score.
If it's a really important point, she can also suddenly become extremely quiet.
 

King No1e

Legend
Nah, you've been had, taken to the cleaners!
I've studied Serena's grunts closely as an exercise one time.
She grunts according to the score. If she's being beaten really badly, she can become quiet as a mouse.
Same strokes, nothing has changed except the score.
If it's a really important point, she can also suddenly become extremely quiet.
Interesting observation. Then again most players do grunt louder on big points, more due to the nerves/tension than as a deliberate distraction.

Either way, I may be wrong. Can you link an example match video for me?
 

Mark-Touch

Professional
Interesting observation. Then again most players do grunt louder on big points, more due to the nerves/tension than as a deliberate distraction.

Either way, I may be wrong. Can you link an example match video for me?
Serena Williams VS Maria Sharapova 2016 AO QF(Full)

Start of match, not confident... (she has basically turned OFF her
grunt/shriek making switch)

12:08 1st serve (silent)
12:35 1st serve (silent)
12:38 FH (silent)
13:03 1st serve (silent)
16:06 serve return (silent)
16:32 serve return (silent)
16:35 BH quiet

Williams v Dementieva: Wimbledon Semi-final, 2009 (Extended Highlights)

Serena in FULL scream/grunt mode today!
Screaming during serves, rallies, everything.

3:18 ON !
Tracy Austin comments: "Those weren't grunts, they were like screams!"

9:56 Grunts/screams turned OFF !!! Strange :)
How is that possible?
Answer: Tense moment, requires concentration.

12:10 Quiet again. How is that possible?
12:55 Screams turned ON again! Strange.
13:35 OFF !
13:46 ON !
13:52 ON !
14:27 OFF !
14:50 ON !
23:50 OFF ! Concentration needed!
24:12 OFF! Concentration needed!
 

Rogfan

Semi-Pro
The same reason why he’s allowed to have 30 sec in between points, he’s allowed to make his opponents wait while they’re ready to serve, and he’s allowed to cheat all the other ways.
 

Mark-Touch

Professional
Haase uses GRUNT

It's super effective!!!
It wasn't effective in the video that was posted above. :(
BTW, what are your impressions about the Serena grunts/shrieks that I posted above?
You asked for videos...
I did take the time to provide them for you.
 

King No1e

Legend
It wasn't effective in the video that was posted above. :(
BTW, what are your impressions about the Serena grunts/shrieks that I posted above?
You asked for videos...
Don't have the time for it yet, but based on your descriptions it seems you're pretty much right. Now whether that's gamesmanship or not is another matter, and it's certainly nothing like Sharapova/de Brito/Azarenka.
 

Stretchy Man

Professional
The worst players even grunt hitting drop shots. Clearly gamesmanship.
If the noise continues after the ball has been hit, it is a hindrance and is against the rules.

Excessive grunting is considered cheating by many including Lendl, Navratilova, Wozniacki, and Pam Shriver. Even Bollettieri has come out against excessive grunting.

"The grunting has reached an unacceptable level. It is cheating, pure and simple. It is time for something to be done", Martina Navratilova.
 

Mark-Touch

Professional
The worst players even grunt hitting drop shots. Clearly gamesmanship.
If the noise continues after the ball has been hit, it is a hindrance and is against the rules.

Excessive grunting is considered cheating by many including Lendl, Navratilova, Wozniacki, and Pam Shriver. Even Bollettieri has come out against excessive grunting.

"The grunting has reached an unacceptable level. It is cheating, pure and simple. It is time for something to be done", Martina Navratilova.
Are you some kind of an inferior poster here?
I was asked "Are you sure you want to like this post?"
The first time on this site!

"If the noise continues after the ball has been hit, it is a hindrance and is against the rules."

When I was analyzing Nadal's videos a while back he does even worse than that!
How about starting the noise after you have hit the ball and it has passed over the net???
Talk about a hindrance!

Just to be clear, he was quiet completely during his entire stroke, but started to let out a grunt after he had hit the ball
and after it had passed over the net!
 
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Pistol10

Professional
And How could it be controlled?

Would they use a device to measure the volume, length, frequency...etc?!!!
 

junior74

G.O.A.T.
Are you some kind of an inferior poster here?
I was asked "Are you sure you want to like this post?"
The first time on this site!

"If the noise continues after the ball has been hit, it is a hindrance and is against the rules."

When I was analyzing Nadal's videos a while back he does even worse than that!
How about starting the noise after you have hit the ball and it has passed over the net???
Talk about a hindrance!

Just to be clear, he was quiet completely during his entire stroke, but started to let out a grunt after he had hit the ball
and after it had passed over the net!
Halep's grunt is so prolonged, it sometimes lasts until after the opponent has hit the ball. So she grunts for two. What a gal.
 

Gary Duane

G.O.A.T.
Have you ever played long tennis matches? I guess you have not.

If you pay attention, when it comes to men, they do not grunt on purpose. When there is a long rally it happens. It doesn't bother me at all. I'm not sure why you are picking Novak and Rafa when pretty much all other players are doing it. Fed is pretty good but it happens to him too. You can't be silent all the time.

Do you grunt during some sex with your lady or bf or whoever? Yes, you do. BS thread.
But it's a matter of degree. To me Fed's grunts seem like a natural consequence of intensity and long points, and key points. Whereas for some others it seems to me to be hugely overdone. I also find the sounds from women worse on my ear because of the higher pitch.
 

TearTheRoofOff

Hall of Fame
But it's a matter of degree. To me Fed's grunts seem like a natural consequence of intensity and long points, and key points. Whereas for some others it seems to me to be hugely overdone. I also find the sounds from women worse on my ear because of the higher pitch.
Agreed: It is absolutely a matter of degree. The idea that it's a complete wash and Delbonis is somehow equal to Fed with regards to grunting is just silly.
 
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clayqueen

G.O.A.T.
This is something that has always annoyed me, especially when it comes to Nadal and Djokovic.

Take Nadal for example, who grunts after almost every point- most of which seem fake to me. Imo he's perfectly capable of playing without excessive grunting just look at the AO 2014 final for evidence, in the third set, after he was "injured" (he won that set btw.) It's even more annoying when he hits moonballs or shots with little pace and still grunts like he's wielding a sledgehammer.

But he's not the only one. Djokovic is just as bad when it comes to this. Take the 1st set of the RG 2015 QF match against Nadal- the first four games, which he won, there was barely any grunt at all but as soon as it was 4-4 and things got tight he starts squealing like a pig. Not just that match but pretty much any match when there's a big point to be played he turns the decibels all the way up.
Don't put ideas in Federer's head. He's tried hampering Rafa on time violation and that hasn't worked he must be looking for other ways.
 

guanzishou

Hall of Fame
Grunting, screaming, et cetera, must be banned.

Mobile phone sound is not allowed.
Fans yelling during point is not allowed.
Baby crying is to be taken out of the stadium.
Grunting must not be allowed as well.

Berrettini deliberately screamed ridiculously loudly on match point on Aliassime's serve, as if Berrettini was being circumcized. That really put Aliassime off, and he was shaken by that primal scream and his hands were trembling and he mistimed the backhand and hit the ball to the net.

Enough is enough. Screamer should be jailed asap.
 

JasonZ

Semi-Pro
With djokovic i agree 100%. He can play without any grunts but when things get tight he starts to make sounds like someone kicks him in the balls. it is not even a grunt. Just a disgusting embarassing sound and he only does it to destract his opponent
 

Mark-Touch

Professional
Grunting, screaming, et cetera, must be banned.

Mobile phone sound is not allowed.
Fans yelling during point is not allowed.
Baby crying is to be taken out of the stadium.
Grunting must not be allowed as well.

Berrettini deliberately screamed ridiculously loudly on match point on Aliassime's serve, as if Berrettini was being circumcized. That really put Aliassime off, and he was shaken by that primal scream and his hands were trembling and he mistimed the backhand and hit the ball to the net.

Enough is enough. Screamer should be jailed asap.
You should not be allowed to make posts like this on TW!
Why?
Because we don't know which parts you are making jokes and which parts you are serious! :(
 
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