Why isn't grunting considered gamesmanship?

[DreddyTennis45]

This is something that has always annoyed me, especially when it comes to Nadal and Djokovic.

Take Nadal for example, who grunts after almost every point- most of which seem fake to me. Imo he's perfectly capable of playing without excessive grunting just look at the AO 2014 final for evidence, in the third set, after he was "injured" (he won that set btw.) It's even more annoying when he hits moonballs or shots with little pace and still grunts like he's wielding a sledgehammer.

But he's not the only one. Djokovic is just as bad when it comes to this. Take the 1st set of the RG 2015 QF match against Nadal- the first four games, which he won, there was barely any grunt at all but as soon as it was 4-4 and things got tight he starts squealing like a pig. Not just that match but pretty much any match when there's a big point to be played he turns the decibels all the way up.

 

[Luka888]

Have you ever played long tennis matches? I guess you have not.

If you pay attention, when it comes to men, they do not grunt on purpose. When there is a long rally it happens. It doesn't bother me at all. I'm not sure why you are picking Novak and Rafa when pretty much all other players are doing it. Fed is pretty good but it happens to him too. You can't be silent all the time.

Do you grunt during some sex with your lady or bf or whoever? Yes, you do. BS thread.

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

There should be a volume limit to ban excessively loud grunting (Seles, late career Sharapova, de Brito, Berlocq, nervous Djokovic...).

 

[Backspin1183]

Nadal's grunting at practice is something else. Never seen such gamesmanship before.

 

[DreddyTennis45]

you pay attention, when it comes to men, they do not grunt on purpose

They don't grunt on purpose? Compare Novak from 0-0 to 0-4 in the first set where he barely grunts to 2-4 where he magically squeals.

 

[tennisaddict]

Have you ever played long tennis matches? I guess you have not.

If you pay attention, when it comes to men, they do not grunt on purpose. When there is a long rally it happens. It doesn't bother me at all. I'm not sure why you are picking Novak and Rafa when pretty much all other players are doing it. Fed is pretty good but it happens to him too. You can't be silent all the time.

Do you grunt during some sex with your lady or bf or whoever? Yes, you do. BS thread.

There is no need to go Uber aggressive with personal remarks , the poster has a point .

How would you justify Nadal grunting ‘hyuunnhh’ when delivering his serve at 0-0,15-0 in the first set .

 

[True Fanerer]

I've seen both of them turn the volume up on the grunting on big points. All you have to do is pay attention to what's going on. Anyone saying different either doesn't pay attention or is lying in their defense.

 

[Sport]

Because it is legal and within the rules. Federer needs to adapt to the grunting of Nadal and Djokovic, not the other way around. Nadal and Djokovic do not need to play in silence to please Federer, as it is within the rules and part of their routine.

 

[tennisaddict]

Because it is legal and within the rules. Federer needs to adapt to the grunting of Nadal and Djokovic, not the other way around. Nadal and Djokovic do not need to play in silence to please Federer, as it is within the rules and part of their routine.

grunting is for those who cannot let their tennis do the talking

 

[Im(moral) Winner]

 

[Backspin1183]

Look at Nadal grunting here. If this is not sportsmanship, I don't know what is.

Noticed how his grunts get louder when his practice partner is hitting the ball well and moving him around?

 

[Sport]

grunting is for those who cannot let their tennis do the talking

Complaining about grunting is for those who need to find an excuse for the losses.

 

[tennisaddict]

Complaining about grunting is for those who need to find an excuse for the losses.

The grunting came first , the tainted win comes next

 

[Backspin1183]

grunting is for those who cannot let their tennis do the talking

I couldn't have said it better.

It's not their tennis but their grunting winning them slams. Roger has silently let his tennis do the talking all these years. That's what humble and great champions are made of.

 

[DreddyTennis45]

Look at Nadal grunting here. If this is not sportsmanship, I don't know what is.

Noticed how his grunts get louder when his practice partner is hitting the ball well and moving him around?

Yes. He trains at a higher instenisty than when he plays matches hence why his grunts sound geniune and short. Compare that to matches with extended and excessive grunts

 

[TearTheRoofOff]

Because it is legal and within the rules. Federer needs to adapt to the grunting of Nadal and Djokovic, not the other way around. Nadal and Djokovic do not need to play in silence to please Federer, as it is within the rules and part of their routine.

This isn't as Fed-centric as you're supposing. It's just annoying full stop.

 

[Centrius]

I don't mind at all but on WTA is another different story.

 

[Sport]

The grunting came first , the tainted win comes next

The victories come first, the excuses come next.

 

[Backspin1183]

Yes. He trains at a higher instenisty than when he plays matches hence why his grunts sound geniune and short. Compare that to matches with extended and excessive grunts

I think trying to win is all he cares about.
I have not seen him grunt as loud as this in matches. Here he's trying to show himself as far superior to his hitting partner. Hence, the grunts are louder.

In matches he plays against much higher ranked professional players than his hitting partner, so the grunts can often be mild in comparison.

 

[True Fanerer]

The victories come first, the excuses come next.

Nadal won the FO.

We get it.

 

[Sport]

This isn't as Fed-centric as you're supposing. It's just annoying full stop.

Annoying... for Fed fans. Nadal and Djokovic fans don't care.

The rule that allows two serves (rather than only one) is annoying for Nadal fans, but I don't need to create a thread about it. I accept that having 2 serves is accepted by the rules and move on.

 

[tennisaddict]

The victories come first, the excuses come next.

I should have won 15 more majors, no , if I was not imaginjured ??

 

[DreddyTennis45]

Because it is legal and within the rules. Federer needs to adapt to the grunting of Nadal and Djokovic, not the other way around. Nadal and Djokovic do not need to play in silence to please Federer, as it is within the rules and part of their routine.

? I'm not a federer fan and never mentioned Federer or how this relates to him yet you did for some reason

 

[tennisaddict]

Annoying... for Fed fans. Nadal and Djokovic fans don't care.

The rule that allows two serves (rather than only one) is annoying for Nadal fans, but I don't need to create a thread about it. I accept that having 2 serves is accepted by the rules and move on.

Don’t try to get cover from Djoker fans . Fight the battle alone

Djokovic at least does only at critical junctures / end of sets and matches

Nadal does it from get go.

 

[Backspin1183]

Annoying... for Fed fans. Nadal and Djokovic fans don't care.

The rule that allows two serves (rather than only one) is annoying for Nadal fans, but I don't need to create a thread about it. I accept that having 2 serves is accepted by the rules and move on.

Never heard a Nadal fan complain about this before. Funny a Djokovic fan would say this about Nadal fans.

 

[Sport]

? I'm not a federer fan and never mentioned Federer or how this relates to him yet you did for some reason

But you are neither a Nadal nor a Djokovic fan. You are a Dustin Brown fan. Now, why don't you create a thread saying "serve and volley is annoying and boring"? Because you like serve and volley as demonstrated by the fact that you are a Dustin Brown fan. If you were a Nadal or Djokovic fan, you would like their games, and so you wouldn't dislike the grunting.

 

[Backspin1183]

When you think cheating by grunting, you sometimes wonder how on earth can the players choose Nadal as their sportsman of the year!
Why can't they see the truth like us Federer fans do!

 

[Sport]

When you think cheating by grunting, you sometimes wonder how on earth can the players choose Nadal as their sportsman of the year!
Why can't they see the truth like us Federer fans do!

How is grunting "cheating" if it is allowed by the rules? Is making a lot of aces to avoid long rallies "cheating"?

 

[DreddyTennis45]

But you are neither a Nadal nor a Djokovic fan. You are a Dustin Brown fan. Now, why don't you create a thread saying "serve and volley is annoying and boring"? Because you like serve and volley as demonstrated by the fact that you are a Dustin Brown fan. If you were a Nadal or Djokovic fan, you would like their games, and so you wouldn't dislike the grunting.

Except serve and volley is playing style in tennis while grunting has nothing to do with tennis, pal. You can be a fan of someone and not worship everything they do

 

[OldschoolKIaus]

I hate tactical grunters like Djokovic. Last example was against Thiem. So pathetic.

 

[Sport]

Except serve and volley is playing style in tennis while grunting has nothing to do with tennis, pal. You can be a fan of someone and not worship everything they do

Incorrect. Grunting is part of Nadal's, Djokovic's and Thiem's game style, just like serve and volley is part of Dustin Brown style.

 

[Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil]

It's up there with taking TWENTY-SEVEN seconds to serve instead of 25 or below as the worst crime humanity has ever seen to be honest. It's all a tactic to disrupt Fraud and mugs because Ralph and Djovak clearly can't deal with pressure situations properly or let their tennis do the talking on its own. Couple of cheating clowns I am telling you.

When you think cheating by grunting, you sometimes wonder how on earth can the players choose Nadal as their sportsman of the year!
Why can't they see the truth like us Federer fans do!

You are definitely the best Federer fan. Until today I thought that title belonged to me.

 

[Backspin1183]

How is grunting "cheating" if it is allowed by the rules? Is making a lot of aces to avoid long rallies "cheating"?

When you are grunting you are distracting your opponent and gaining a huge advantage over them. That's what the real science behind Fedal head to head going Nadal's way.

Making a lot of aces requires precision, style and class. Only the best players in history can serve aces 3-4 times in a row consistently.

 

[Sport]

I hate tactical grunters like Djokovic. Last example was against Thiem. So pathetic.

I hate tactical servers like Federer. Last example was against Wawrinka. So pathetic.

 

[Sport]

When you are grunting you are distracting your opponent and gaining a huge advantage over them. That's what the real science behind Fedal head to head going Nadal's way.

Making a lot of aces requires precision, style and class. Only the best players in history can serve aces 3-4 times in a row consistently.

When you are serving aces you are making free points on your opponent. That's the real science of Fedal.

Only the best players in history can grunt and win 12 RG and 7 AO.

 

[Backspin1183]

It's up there with taking TWENTY-SEVEN seconds to serve instead of 25 or below as the worst crime humanity has ever seen to be honest...

You are definitely the best Federer fan. Until today I thought that title belonged to me.

I am flattered!

I used to pretend to be a Nadal fan but got exposed by @Sport when I couldn't stop myself from praising the one true GOAT.

 

[TearTheRoofOff]

Annoying... for Fed fans. Nadal and Djokovic fans don't care.

The rule that allows two serves (rather than only one) is annoying for Nadal fans, but I don't need to create a thread about it. I accept that having 2 serves is accepted by the rules and move on.

LOL at that comparison.

Anyway, I guarantee it is also annoying for some that aren't Fed fans.

 

[mahesh69a]

I think it IS annoying beyond a certain volume - whether it is ATP or WTA (and irrespective of Big 3 fandoms).

Taking advantage of certain simple loopholes in the game's rules should be considered gamesmanship if it is done purposefully to distract/misguide/hamper an opponent.

 

[sredna42]

Its gamesmanship. Pure and simple.
Genuine effort exhalation is something like what wawrinka does.

Djokovic was starting to make a noise well after he'd hit the ball against thiem, it is just wrong.

 

[Bartelby]

Grunting is a learnt behaviour. It is not natural and not due to exertion. It's not necessary but probably tolerated due to the acoustic dimension aka aural excitement it adds.

 

[Luka888]

There is no need to go Uber aggressive with personal remarks , the poster has a point .

How would you justify Nadal grunting ‘hyuunnhh’ when delivering his serve at 0-0,15-0 in the first set .

I'm not being aggressive. It is my opinion. How to explain this? I, honestly, do not believe that guys do it on purpose.

It's a different thing with ladies but I don't want anyone to call me a misogynist. Gencic trained Monica Seles that way and then every girl followed it. I, dearly love Seles. Great champ, but that was one thing that was so annoying.

However, the OP somehow picked on Djokovic and Nadal but forgot about so many other players. That was my point. Should we introduce a new rule in tennis and use some duck tape?

Man, I clean my place and I grunt because I get tired and I'm not winning anything

 

[tennisaddict]

I'm not being aggressive. It is my opinion. How to explain this? I, honestly, do not believe that guys do it on purpose.

It's a different thing with ladies but I don't want anyone to call me a misogynist. Gencic trained Monica Seles that way and then every girl followed it. I, dearly love Seles. Great champ, but that was one thing that was so annoying.

However, the OP somehow picked on Djokovic and Nadal but forgot about so many other players. That was my point. Should we introduce a new rule in tennis and use some duck tape?

Man, I clean my place and I grunt because I get tired and I'm not winning anything

Don’t see that as picking on Nadal and Djoker .

Based on the thread title , I took it as a generic issue that plagues tennis

Definitely Djokovic is not a top offender but Nadal is top 5 for grunting in men’s tennis

If the poster talked about Granollers and Berlocq no one would respond to the thread .

 

[Luka888]

Incorrect. Grunting is part of Nadal's, Djokovic's and Thiem's game style, just like serve and volley is part of Dustin Brown style.

Well, this is what I'm trying to explain for God's sake. Are we not allowed to breath anymore? Seriously? How can someone 'tactically' grunt? That's just plain stupid. So, someone dislikes a player A or a player B and they come up with all of this BS.

The OP has Dustin Brown in his avi. He grunts too. I watched many of his matches. So what?

 

[Luka888]

Don’t see that as picking on Nadal and Djoker .

Based on the thread title , I took it as a generic issue that plagues tennis

Definitely Djokovic is not a top offender but Nadal is top 5 for grunting in men’s tennis

If the poster talked about Granollers and Berlocq no one would respond to the thread .

Well, you are right there.

It makes me sad that people gossip so much and instead of talking some real tennis stuff people want some drama. Yes, Rafa has his antics. I guess, by now, we all got used to it and it doesn't bother me that much.

It's like my old mom washing curtains every week. I say 'Mom, you are being silly, just stop it, I don't want you to fall down' and she goes like 'I can't help it'.

 

[True Fanerer]

Well, this is what I'm trying to explain for God's sake. Are we not allowed to breath anymore? Seriously? How can someone 'tactically' grunt? That's just plain stupid. So, someone dislikes a player A or a player B and they come up with all of this BS.

The OP has Dustin Brown in his avi. He grunts too. I watched many of his matches. So what?

Just grunt louder on break point or whatever. They do it. I promise you that.

 

[Luka888]

Just grunt louder on break point or whatever. They do it. I promise you that.

I'm grUNTIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIING RIGHT NOW. TRY TO STOP ME . RoaRRRRRRRRRRRING. dARN.

 

[BeatlesFan]

Because it is legal and within the rules. Federer needs to adapt to the grunting of Nadal and Djokovic, not the other way around.

How about Nadal and Djokovic’s time wasting, which wasn’t “within the rules” and Federer had to adopt to that? His average time between serves is 15.4 seconds. Nadal and Djokovic (before the shot clock implementation) had average times of 32 and 35 seconds between serves.

 

[Subway Tennis]

I think some people find it annoying, but most would dismiss any claims to grunting being gamesmanship. It's considered to be a natural expression of exertion or something a player consciously does at a moment of impact to maximize explosiveness, rather than being designed to distract an opponent.

Some players pretty much always grunt (eg. Nadal with a very physically aggressive playing style) and some players only rarely (eg. Federer who grunted a lot in the RG SF, owing possibly to the extremely tough conditions).

I think it is reasonable to expect players to control the length of the grunt, and avoid it becoming a verbal hindrance. Even in instances where they can't control when it comes out, they should control the length of the sound. Any noise that continues when their opponent is returning a shot is not a grunt, it's a player causing a verbal hindrance.

Quite a few highly physical sports involving explosive movement, an aerobic component and striking movements all involve competitors grunting, you just notice it more in tennis because the points are played in near silence.

Would be interesting to read more data like this about the performance benefits of grunting:

https://journals.lww.com/nsca-jscr/...ennis_Increases_Ball_Velocity_but_Not.16.aspx

 

[Terenigma]

I've genuinely never thought of either Nadal or Djokovic doing this on purpose, with Nadal it seems directly tied to how hard he hits the ball and Djokovic seems to only really do it when he's being forced into hard retrievals which is sort of understandable. I disagree with it getting louder or more prominent depending on the point and believe me, if Nadal was doing something i consider gamesmanship then i would be the first to point it out. If you wanna discuss ATP grunters then we need to talk about Berlocq and not Nadal and Djokovic.

Just came across this video to demonstrate true gamesmanship grunting: (Prepare your ears)

 

[tudwell]

Nadal’s grunt is one of the most excruciating sounds in tennis. I don’t know why I feel that way, but I do. Not sure grunting should be regulated or banned or anything, but it can get into dicey territory when a player’s grunt lingers or they have a delayed grunt (a deliberate sound made while the opponent’s striking the ball is a hindrance).