Why isn't it Nadal>Federer right now?

lrdrdy

New User
Everyone touted RG 21 as Nadal's play for GOAT, and since he failed, the consensus is that Nadal is still behind Fed, and will be surpassed by Nole soon. But why is Fed's 20 better than Rafa's? Here are the cards that prove its not.

1. There was no "Nadal" Era, he made the best of it anyway -

Nadal's best tennis came sandwiched in between the peaks of his 2 great rivals. After Fed left his prime in 2010, Nadal finally got his turn to dominate and won 3 straight slams. Then boom, Djokovic 2011 happened and he is once again forced to contend with an all-court ATG for slams. Despite this, he won 3 slams off clay (WB 08, AO 09, USO 13) against their prime versions. Djokovic and Federer have only won 1 slam against each other in prime years (AO 08 semi, WB 12 semi).

2. He has beat both Djoko and Fed in slams from the start -

3 straight years in which he defeated both Djokovic and Federer in the same slam (FO 06, FO 07, FO 08) all decisively. Djokovic has defeated both Nadal and Federer in the same slam once (USO 11), and Federer has never done this.

3. His resume on clay and at the French Open are taken for granted -

You already know all the stats that prove how superhuman is on his turf, so there is no need to list them. But consider this, it took 106 matches for a healthy Nadal to lose at the French. Djokovic lost his first ever AO match, Fed lost his first ever Wimbledon match, Nadal went on to win his first French Open he played in as a teenager. Even though he lost to Novak, it was only his 2nd defeat in 9 tries. Fed lost to Novak 2 times at Wimbledon by their 3rd match.

So with all this being acknowledged, how can Federer possibly be greater than Nadal?
 

spottishwood

Semi-Pro
The points ya need to consider- 20=20, 6>0, Rafa leads by 8 in masters but WTF worth more ofc. 310>220(idk exactly). This is pretty much enough for me to consider fed's slightly better than Rafa as of now.
 

TripleATeam

G.O.A.T.
Pretty much just weeks at #1 and 6 WTF titles for me, I suppose. A few other statistics like H2H, Olympics, and Masters go Rafa's way whereas total titles, and some other smaller records go Fed's way. I would say in the tiers of GOAT criteria, Fed and Nadal tied tier 1 (slams), Fed leads tier 2 (#1, WTF), Nadal leads tier 3 (H2H, Masters, Olympics), Fed leads tier 4 (Total titles, final/semifinal records, etc), and probably tied or so for intangibles.
 

ChrisRF

Hall of Fame
This was a very underrated match for its significance.

Federer played one of his best sets ever in the 1st, and I was like: "Okay, he has figured him out. He will have no rivals off-clay for years to come now. Maybe he will even figure him out on clay and win the CYGS."

Then Rafa proved me wrong in like an hour or so. :eek: ;)
 

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
This was a very underrated match for its significance.

Federer played one of his best sets ever in the 1st, and I was like: "Okay, he has figured him out. He will have no rivals off-clay for years to come now. Maybe he will even figure him out on clay and win the CYGS."

Then Rafa proved me wrong in like an hour or so. :eek: ;)
The true definition of someone moving like a Gazelle lol.
 

Hitman

G.O.A.T.
Everyone touted RG 21 as Nadal's play for GOAT, and since he failed, the consensus is that Nadal is still behind Fed, and will be surpassed by Nole soon. But why is Fed's 20 better than Rafa's? Here are the cards that prove its not.

1. There was no "Nadal" Era, he made the best of it anyway -

Nadal's best tennis came sandwiched in between the peaks of his 2 great rivals. After Fed left his prime in 2010, Nadal finally got his turn to dominate and won 3 straight slams. Then boom, Djokovic 2011 happened and he is once again forced to contend with an all-court ATG for slams. Despite this, he won 3 slams off clay (WB 08, AO 09, USO 13) against their prime versions. Djokovic and Federer have only won 1 slam against each other in prime years (AO 08 semi, WB 12 semi).

2. He has beat both Djoko and Fed in slams from the start -

3 straight years in which he defeated both Djokovic and Federer in the same slam (FO 06, FO 07, FO 08) all decisively. Djokovic has defeated both Nadal and Federer in the same slam once (USO 11), and Federer has never done this.

3. His resume on clay and at the French Open are taken for granted -

You already know all the stats that prove how superhuman is on his turf, so there is no need to list them. But consider this, it took 106 matches for a healthy Nadal to lose at the French. Djokovic lost his first ever AO match, Fed lost his first ever Wimbledon match, Nadal went on to win his first French Open he played in as a teenager. Even though he lost to Novak, it was only his 2nd defeat in 9 tries. Fed lost to Novak 2 times at Wimbledon by their 3rd match.

So with all this being acknowledged, how can Federer possibly be greater than Nadal?
I think they are all so close, that putting them in any order is plausible.

For why some people put Federer ahead, he is greater than Nadal at three out of the four slams, he has more AO, more W, more USO. He also has the record at WTF, and nearly 100 plus weeks as world number one. He has done 5 slams in a row on two different surface, and still is only player to have at least 5 slam wins at three slams. You see, outside of clay Federer is clearly superior in every facet and keep in mind, Nadal has losing record on HC to top ten players.

So there are cases either way. Personally, I see all three as kind of equal now. They have won too much.
 

kevaninho

Hall of Fame
I would not call a highly favourable match up as handling. Once Roger figured out what he needs to do, he never looked back. Took him much too long, though.
Nonsense.

Once rafa slowed down significantly, Federer started doing better.

He never 'figured him out.'

Nadals speed and movement were his biggest weapons along with his FH when he was younger.
Without that , he never beats Fed or Djokovic on grass or a fast HC likely.
 
J

joohan

Guest
Nonsense.

Once rafa slowed down significantly, Federer started doing better.

He never 'figured him out.'

Nadals speed and movement were his biggest weapons along with his FH when he was younger.
Without that , he never beats Fed or Djokovic on grass or a fast HC likely.
So Feds total over-commitment to almost every drive backhand, high jumping incoming ball or not, has all to do with Rafa getting slower, right?

Doing better...what is it like 6:0 outside clay since AO17? That’s not doing better, that’s total dominance, m8.
 

Start da Game

Hall of Fame
i really don't care at this point........rafa is a distant third on grass behind fedovic and distant third in australia as well........he is no longer the best of the generation, to put himself there again he needs a couple of non clay slams........

double career grandslam clearly puts djokovic at the top........mere slam count is just nonsense........i have no qualms in admitting djokovic as the best of this generation if his miraculous recoveries are totally legitimate........he has dominated fedal for a decade now.........that is enough, end of story.........fans can make any number of excuses and shout 20 > 19 a million times, it won't work........reality is that djokovic has surpassed both with the latest roland garros victory........
 

Beckerserve

Legend
The points ya need to consider- 20=20, 6>0, Rafa leads by 8 in masters but WTF worth more ofc. 310>220(idk exactly). This is pretty much enough for me to consider fed's slightly better than Rafa as of now.
Discount WTF and M1000 as neither have an event on each best surface. WTF more favourable to Federer. There are 3 clay M1000s none on grass.
Federer weeks at no.1 may swing it though given he achieved it with only 2 events on his best surface.
 

Cortana

Hall of Fame
- 237 weeks > total weeks of Nadal (let alone 310)
- 6 WTF
- Something like 200 GS SF in a row
- 3x5
 

kevaninho

Hall of Fame
So Feds total over-commitment to almost every drive backhand, high jumping incoming ball or not, has all to do with Rafa getting slower, right?

Doing better...what is it like 6:0 outside clay since AO17? That’s not doing better, that’s total dominance, m8.
You just said it yourself LOL

He started beating Nadal consistently in 2017 onwards LOL

Why couldnt he do so before then?

Or did he just start to work on his backhand once he was in his mid 30s .... :unsure:
 
J

joohan

Guest
You just said it yourself LOL

He started beating Nadal consistently in 2017 onwards LOL

Why couldnt he do so before then?

Or did he just start to work on his backhand once he was in his mid 30s .... :unsure:
Hope you're doing this on purpose. Best of luck.
 

NAS

Professional
I may give edge to Fed because of his overall record but I see all three more or less equal, it is very difficult to choose unless one completely move ahead like minimum 2 slam difference
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Better dominance, more versatility, more weeks at no.1 and more WTF titles.

Yeah, I only have Nadal ahead of he wins no.21. As of now when they're equal, I have Fed ahead.
 

aman92

Hall of Fame
If he gets to 21 first he will be.. Simple as that. Fed's weeks at No 1 currently slightly tilt it in his favour but there are arguments to counter that obviously
 

initialize

Rookie
40 year old Fed beat Nadal how many times in a row in their most recent matchups? Like 8 times? Yeah, Federer >>>>> Nadal
 

vex

Hall of Fame
Everyone touted RG 21 as Nadal's play for GOAT, and since he failed, the consensus is that Nadal is still behind Fed, and will be surpassed by Nole soon. But why is Fed's 20 better than Rafa's? Here are the cards that prove its not.

1. There was no "Nadal" Era, he made the best of it anyway -

Nadal's best tennis came sandwiched in between the peaks of his 2 great rivals. After Fed left his prime in 2010, Nadal finally got his turn to dominate and won 3 straight slams. Then boom, Djokovic 2011 happened and he is once again forced to contend with an all-court ATG for slams. Despite this, he won 3 slams off clay (WB 08, AO 09, USO 13) against their prime versions. Djokovic and Federer have only won 1 slam against each other in prime years (AO 08 semi, WB 12 semi).

2. He has beat both Djoko and Fed in slams from the start -

3 straight years in which he defeated both Djokovic and Federer in the same slam (FO 06, FO 07, FO 08) all decisively. Djokovic has defeated both Nadal and Federer in the same slam once (USO 11), and Federer has never done this.

3. His resume on clay and at the French Open are taken for granted -

You already know all the stats that prove how superhuman is on his turf, so there is no need to list them. But consider this, it took 106 matches for a healthy Nadal to lose at the French. Djokovic lost his first ever AO match, Fed lost his first ever Wimbledon match, Nadal went on to win his first French Open he played in as a teenager. Even though he lost to Novak, it was only his 2nd defeat in 9 tries. Fed lost to Novak 2 times at Wimbledon by their 3rd match.

So with all this being acknowledged, how can Federer possibly be greater than Nadal?
I’d say it’s probably due to the fact that his resume sucks compared to Fed’s. I’d start there
 
Nadal's been better than Federer for a while, it just became official once Fed no longer led in the slam count. Equal slam count plus a dominant H2H means Fed is not in the conversation. This is between Djokovic and Nadal from here on in.
 

ElisRF

Professional
Nadal needs 22 GS titles to go ahead of Federer assuming nothing else imo. Or 21 but a YEC + a lot more weeks at number 1 (say closer to like 270-280)
 

Devtennis01

G.O.A.T.
There is always that tricky h2h to deal with at their prime. Nadal really got the edge there and they were big moments that stick out.
 

T007

Professional
Nonsense.

Once rafa slowed down significantly, Federer started doing better.

He never 'figured him out.'

Nadals speed and movement were his biggest weapons along with his FH when he was younger.
Without that , he never beats Fed or Djokovic on grass or a fast HC likely.
Its interesting that why Nadal didn't slowed down on clay and suddenly slowed down out of it. Federer beat Nadal in 2017 (4-0)when he was ranked No 1 that year.
 
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