Why isn't Switzerland winning Davis Cups?

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Lee

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Simple logic:

Federer will defeat anyone he plays in less than an hour (+2 singles)
Federer + Allegro: formidable duo (winning a double title this year) (+1 double)
Plus, Warinka looks more and more like a threat (especially on clay)

By this logic, Swiss DC should be winning all the time, no?



What puzzles me is that, with the sheer dominace of Roger Federer and his ability to annihilate fellow ATP players (with the exception of Nadal on clay), why hasn't Switzerland had much success in DC, other than its recent rout of Britain last weekend?
 
Players may lose both matches to Federer, but any solid team can get two wins of Wawrinka and beat Federer and Allegro in doubles.
 
It also doesn't help if Federer doesn't play Davis Cup -- for example, he stayed away earlier in the year. Switzerland then lost in the first round, which is why they had to play GB in the World Group playoff.
--Tenez
 
Federer opted out of the tie earlier this year. If he'd played, they probably would have won that tie and would be in what, the quarterfinals? Nevertheless, he's carried that team on his back for quite a while. Finally, there is the emergence of the number 2 player in Warinka.

So before Wawrinka Federer was enough to win them a lot of ties and get them pretty far, but never past the semis I don't think. Now with Wawrinka, if Federer commits to playing next year, which I hope he will, they should definitely be a contender.

They've had a fair bit of success, it's not like 5-0 against Britain was the only tie they've ever won, but in the end you can't really have one-man teams, there has to be somebody that can win a match too.
 
You need a strong number 2 player who can compete on all surfaces. Then you need a top notch doubles combination who can win on all surfaces. That's one of the main reasons Australia lost recently - too much reliance on one player. Sure Fed is better than Hewitt but that continual reliance is taxing on even the best. DC is a team game so everyone needs to contribute.

Personally, I think that against most of the top teams they'll struggle. The Spanish have probably the strongest 1 and 2 players and can always put together a very strong doubles team. The Argentinians are similar. The Americans have the best doubles combo, a strong number 1 and an unproven number 2 but it might be enough to get them over the line. Sweden are the dark horse because there's an evenness about their whole squad. One genuinely great doubles player and the rest just very solid citizens. However, the DC tradition lifts them in the same way it has lifted past Aussie teams who were short on talent but high on passion.
 
Strenght in numbers and the fact the federer is only one man. Imagine him playing the spanish armada on clay where matches are dragged on and on at a surface he is the least comfortable against formidable clay specialist. The thought alone is enough to humble even federer.
 
Wawrinka is definitely a player to watch and will certainly take some pressure off of Federer. Playing singles and doubles is an awfully lot to ask of someone, even of Federer's stature.
 
Surface matters a lot. Like people are saying Fed v. Peurta, Coria or Spain on clay is not a 2 hour match the way youve suggested. Yeah on other surfaces theres really no competition.
 
Reviewing Fed DC performance since 2002.

Singles: 14-1; a few games from winning all 15 matches in straight sets.
Doubles: 4-4


2002

1R at Morocco, outdoor clay
Fed wins both singles vs. Arazi/El Aynaoui
wins doubles w/Bastl

QF at Russia, indoor clay
Fed wins both singles vs. Safin/Kafelnikov
loses doubles w/Rosset


2003

1R at Netherlands, indoor carpet
Fed wins both singles vs. Sluiter/Schalken
loses doubles w/Bastl


QF at France, indoor hard
Fed wins both singles vs. Escude/Santoro
wins doubles w/Rosset

SF at Australia, outdoor Rebound Ace
Fed d. Flipper
loses doubles w/Rosset
loses to Hewitt after being up two sets and a break; he has since beaten Hewitt nine consecutive matches


2004

1R at Romania, indoor red clay
Fed wins both singles vs. Hanescu/Pavel
Fed/Allegro win doubles

QF vs. France, indoor hard
Fed wins both singles vs. Escude/Clement
Fed/Allegro lose doubles


2005

WG Playoff vs. Great Britain, indoor clay
Fed wins singles vs. Mackin, straight sets
Fed/Allegro win doubles
 
Yup, Hewitt probably wishes he never won that one. I remember how in-depth Roger's collapse was covered at the time and how unbearable it must have been to Federer to swallow that one. Ever since that DC defeat, Federer has made a point of not only beating Hewitt every single time up, but also inflicting the maximum pain and humiliation while doing so. Seems there's a bagel served every time they play, even if sometimes only in tie-breaks.
 
Kalin said:
Yup, Hewitt probably wishes he never won that one. I remember how in-depth Roger's collapse was covered at the time and how unbearable it must have been to Federer to swallow that one. Ever since that DC defeat, Federer has made a point of not only beating Hewitt every single time up, but also inflicting the maximum pain and humiliation while doing so. Seems there's a bagel served every time they play, even if sometimes only in tie-breaks.
Click to expand...

haha good one...even a bagel in the tiebreak...If what you said is true, Federer really can change an extremely negative situation to an extremely positive outcome...I just pity Hewitt, just waiting for some potential bagels in Thailand Open...how about bagels in all Federer's service games?
 
ctbmar said:
haha good one...even a bagel in the tiebreak...If what you said is true, Federer really can change an extremely negative situation to an extremely positive outcome...I just pity Hewitt, just waiting for some potential bagels in Thailand Open...how about bagels in all Federer's service games?
Click to expand...

There's a great artcile in Tennis Magazine about Roger and his mental maturation in the July issue.

Unfortunaly Tennis Mag does not allow there article to be viewed online for free any more. If you don't have the rag you can purchase it on line. http://www.keepmedia.com/pubs/Tennis/2005/07/01/885738?from=search&criteria=federer&refinePubID=286

Enjoy
 
Kevin Patrick said:
If Ljubcic can win the cup singlehandedly, so can Federer.
I'm sure he will play next year.
Click to expand...

I don't know about that, he can win all the singles matches, but winning all the doubles matches will be very difficult. Lbubicic and Ancic make a very good team, they beat the Bryon brothers. I don't think Fed and Allegro match up very well with the top doubles teams from other countries. Federer is not as dominant in doubles as he is in singles. What Lbubicic has done will be difficult to repeat even for Fed. Let's see if he can win 3 more matches in the final to have a perfect Davis Cup season.
 
Fed & Allegro have a tour record that is equal to/or better than Ljubcic/Ancic.
Plus they now have Wawrinka, he could count for a crucial singles win here or there & possibly play doubles as well.

Looking at the World Group teams, there aren't that many teams with great depth(as in having a great doubles team)
There is a lot of parity among countries, no dominant team like Sweden of the 80s.
If you get the right draw(Slovakia has played all their matches at home this year) any team has got a shot. And Switzerland is certainly one of them.
 
Ljubcic and Ancic haven't played together on tour that much. They are the top two doubles team from the same country along with the Bryan brothers.
 
I don't see any good Davis Cup teams losing a singles to Wawrinka, so that puts a lot of pressure on Federer and Allegro to win all those doubles matches. If it is 1-1 against a good team, it is basically riding on the doubles match if the other team has two top singles players. Lbubicic does not have the same pressure playing doubles if it is 1-1 because Ancic is much more capable of winning his singles match than Wawrinka would be.
 
If Karol Beck can beat Coria & Seppi can beat Ferrero, anything can happen.
Davis Cup is harder to predict than regular events, there is no lead up to the matches. and homecourt advantage is a huge factor. Would Rochus trouble Roddick in the US?
It's like a boxing match, whoever is best on the day prevails & extreme upsets do happen.
Switzerland should give it a shot, they might get lucky.
 
They're not winning 'cause they don't have Ljubicic (and Ancic) :-)
Ljubicic gave some trouble to Federer in Rotterdam this year (5:7 7:5 7:6)...maybe if they met in Davis Cup here in Croatia....
 
Kevin Patrick said:
If Karol Beck can beat Coria & Seppi can beat Ferrero, anything can happen.
Davis Cup is harder to predict than regular events, there is no lead up to the matches. and homecourt advantage is a huge factor. Would Rochus trouble Roddick in the US?
It's like a boxing match, whoever is best on the day prevails & extreme upsets do happen.
Click to expand...

True, and for me this is one of the big appeals of the Davis Cup.
 
Yep, there's that "anything-can-happen-in-Davis-Cup" variable that we see time and time again -- where players outperform, especially before home crowds, or underperform (again, especially before home crowds).

It's unpredictability makes it such a great event, especially since the home team can manipulate the surface, the crowd and the media to their advantage.

If Switzerland can manage all four ties at home, I don't see them losing, but that doesn't happen very often.
 
I do believe if Federer plays the Davis Cup Switzerland has a good chance. Federer is favored to win 2 singles no matter who they play, unless it is Spain on clay(
an unlikely odds for a matchup, although possable). You only need 3 matches to win a tie of course. Allegro/Federer are a decent doubles team, they are not as good as several of the serious contending countries, but they are just as good as several others IMO. There are alot of top countries without a particularly strong second singles player, Wawrinki is young and getting better, I think he could pull out a win over many of the top countries second singles guys, although he would be the underdog against most.
 
Kevin Patrick said:
Switzerland will host Australia in the 1st Round in Feb.
What surface will they choose?
Federer/Wawrinka/Allegro vs
Hewitt/Arthurs(for singles?)
I think the Swiss will take this one.

http://sports.yahoo.com/ten/news;_y...D44v7YF?slug=reu-davis&prov=reuters&type=lgns
Click to expand...

I think they should choose clay, it is Hewitt's and Arthur's worst surface. I know it is Federer's worst surface as well, but he has still been the second best clay court player after Nadal recently I would say, so he should win both matches regardless of surface. I have no idea how Wawrinka is on clay, but it will certainly neutralize Arthur's serve and give Wawrinka a better chance to pull out a singles match.
 
Federer is favored over Hewitt on any surface, since there surface preferances are the same. Arthur has virtualy no chance against Hewitt on any surface, but on a real fast court he might have a dream serving day or something like that, it wont happen on clay though. Wawrinki, from what I know of him, is comfortable on clay, by far his chances vs Arthur are better on clay, and he might have a chance to upset Hewitt on clay as well, although it would take a major effort on his part to even have a chance at the latter.
 
Hopefully it will be in Switzerland then. :) If the Swiss choose grass Spain will be whomped, maybe Nadal ekeing out a win over Wawrinki but that is about it. I would love to see how badly Roger would beat Rafael on grass to be honest.
 
has switzerland ever played a grass court tie at home? Very few countries have- us, australia, india come to mind. it's just not that common, you need to really go to some effort to get grass court.
 
I honestly dont know that, I dont follow the history of Davis Cup that closely, it doesnt interest me all that much. I do know Switzerland has their share of grass courts though, I imagine they could find one. They would want the surface that would give Spain the most impossable task to beat them wouldnt they?
 
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