Why no love for the 14x18 pattern?

smalahove

smalahove

Hall of Fame
So, this weekend i picked up a Prince CTS Lightning 90 at a garafe sale of sorts at my kids school. As a big Prince fan, I also own a couple of Graphite Pro 90. All of these rackets are heavy compared to today's std, extremely head light and have the 14 x 18 string pattern. They're also mid plus (93). I weighed the CTS Lightning 90 at 12,8 oz, strung with overgrip.

I absolutely love these rackets, and I've tried a lot of the new offerings, which have been a positive experience and prince is in no way behind any of the other makes, but still imo, these old Prince rackets have something to them that no other rackets can emulate. I've settled on the Rebel 95 as my modern racket, and I will also try out the tour 98 esp.

I've sold my tour 100s (16x18, 18x20), and I'm not at all impressed with the precision 97.

One last thought: I wish Prince would bring back the graphite pro 90 as it's the best looking racket ever made, alongside the wilson ps 6.0 85.
 
I liked the POG with its 14/18 pattern. Though I switched to the PS85 and really like the denser pattern. I now have a 16/18 in a 100" racket but would like it better I think if I had it at 18/20. Just more control.

Also I tweaked the POG to be 14/10 (thanks blubee). It was an interesting experiment.

I would say the 14/18 is a middle ground pattern these days. Not super open but not closed either.

Those rackets were just made more solid than the ones today.
 
We all love classic racquets with tighter string patterns, but most of us can't utilize their full potential because we got used to play with bigger and more powerful racquets :(
Personally, the POG will be too lower powered for me.
 
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This is what I can't understand.

I find the modern "power" rackets, such as the prince silver (?) very hard to control, and not really powerful at all. I'm def not a big hitter, but I have a full swing and for me, a heavy racket with a decent swingweight is much, much easier to play with - and to generate power - than f.inst. the silver (or your typical oversize 110sh beginner/intermediate racket).

That being said, I'm not a racket romantic. I just enjoy the specs of the CTS Lightning 90 and GP90, and it seems the 14 x 18 pattern is one of the only things that separate them from todays rackets with similar specs. Somebody pointed out the GP90 is super flexible (49), but I found out the CTS isn't (60).

So, I was wondering if a Rebel/Tour 95 in a pro version (traditional grommets) with a 14 x 18 pattern and a bit more headlight would be a popular racket?
 
Bud said:
Re-read the OP. It's about a 25+ year old frame - the CTS Lightning.
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exactly my point. with prince introducing brand new 2014 with open pattern, people are writing about 25yr old frames......thats real bad news
 
I have a pro kennex that's 90'' 14*18. My favorite serving racket
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Really what was that? They did the opposite in the 90's with the "micro" string. I today dropped some of my old Destiny's into a reused box as I'm moving and can't justify having frames I don't use. They where all 16x18, good frames some wide body before Kenetics which feel meh compared to today's racquets but still OK. I have a soft spot for PK, and none in the house, but I'll find a 2ndH Redondo and feel 100% again.
 
zapvor said:
exactly my point. with prince introducing brand new 2014 with open pattern, people are writing about 25yr old frames......thats real bad news
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It's not bad news for Prince since all mfcs offer more or less the same patterns. Nobody offers 14x18, and no modern rackets comes close with regards to swingweight and balance.

That being said, just looking at the numbers you might think this is not such a big deal and I totally understand that. However, playwise, these old rackets feel very different than all modern rackets I've tried (Angell, Volkl, Head, Babolat). Perhaps my old school swing developed with a GP90 fits these rackets better, I don't know ;-)
 
"Why no love for the 14x18 pattern?"

Because there's no BS marketing behind it.
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I play with a 18x20 HEAD Speed Pro and for a 100" I could go 20x 22 and feel OK. It depends on you're style of play, nothing wrong with 14x18 but nor is there 18x20. I think 14x18 would suit more people than a 18x20 to be honest. It's not purely marketing rather people follow what the pro's use whether it's good or not for them, which I suppose is marketing but it's just association to me and often lies and deception.
 
PMChambers said:
Really what was that? They did the opposite in the 90's with the "micro" string. I today dropped some of my old Destiny's into a reused box as I'm moving and can't justify having frames I don't use. They where all 16x18, good frames some wide body before Kenetics which feel meh compared to today's racquets but still OK. I have a soft spot for PK, and none in the house, but I'll find a 2ndH Redondo and feel 100% again.
Click to expand...

GraphiteSaber widebody mid 30
That's what it says on the racket.
 
smalahove said:
It's not bad news for Prince since all mfcs offer more or less the same patterns. Nobody offers 14x18, and no modern rackets comes close with regards to swingweight and balance.

That being said, just looking at the numbers you might think this is not such a big deal and I totally understand that. However, playwise, these old rackets feel very different than all modern rackets I've tried (Angell, Volkl, Head, Babolat). Perhaps my old school swing developed with a GP90 fits these rackets better, I don't know ;-)
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i know, but you are missing the point. he's talking about a 25yr old frame. prince wants to sell 2014 rackets, not have people say how great their old prince is and how they will keep playing with them. and i know the old rackets have a completely different feel. that wasnt my point.
 
Larrysümmers said:
GraphiteSaber widebody mid 30
That's what it says on the racket.
Click to expand...

Is that the black frame with accents and the rough-textured paint job?

- - -

I'm thinking of the Graphite Supreme 95 that was 14x18

j5b32c.jpg
 
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GraphiteSaber widebody mid 30
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Never heard of it, not much on internet just a few on **** over the years. Interesting, PK did try a lot of things for a small manufacture. They have some very distinctive racquets, I need a PK, just gave 3x away never not had one in collection in 25 years, need 2nd Hand Redondo before they go Dodo.
 
zapvor said:
i know, but you are missing the point. he's talking about a 25yr old frame. prince wants to sell 2014 rackets, not have people say how great their old prince is and how they will keep playing with them. and i know the old rackets have a completely different feel. that wasnt my point.
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Your logic would dictate that I (OP btw) wouldn't buy new Prince rackets as a consequence of my preference for the old frames. Thing is, doesn't work that way. Since I started playing again I've bought 7 new Prince frames (over a period of 2-3 years) - and I am planning on buying a couple of tour 98 ESPs.

However, if another company were to introduce a similar spec'ed and playing racket as the CTS lightning or the GP90, I'd def. consider dropping Prince. And I'm a big Prince fan. But nobody offers anything alike. Not even close.
 
smalahove said:
Your logic would dictate that I (OP btw) wouldn't buy new Prince rackets as a consequence of my preference for the old frames. Thing is, doesn't work that way. Since I started playing again I've bought 7 new Prince frames (over a period of 2-3 years) - and I am planning on buying a couple of tour 98 ESPs.

However, if another company were to introduce a similar spec'ed and playing racket as the CTS lightning or the GP90, I'd def. consider dropping Prince. And I'm a big Prince fan. But nobody offers anything alike. Not even close.
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hmmm. i see. so despite upgrading to 7 new frames, you go back to the 20yr old model. so my point stays true. bad news for prince.
 
zapvor said:
i know, but you are missing the point. he's talking about a 25yr old frame. prince wants to sell 2014 rackets, not have people say how great their old prince is and how they will keep playing with them. and i know the old rackets have a completely different feel. that wasnt my point.
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Well 2014 rackets blow. It's the stupid ports. It's a terrible differentiator

Fwiw I am a prince fan but not an oport fan!

Is sad really. I was looking for a new stick and the warrior light was on the top of my list. Demoed it and all it did was vibrate like crazy. Crazy and that was with the sorbathane grip I put on it. Their old rackets are better and have just as much spin
 
zapvor said:
hmmm. i see. so despite upgrading to 7 new frames, you go back to the 20yr old model. so my point stays true. bad news for prince.
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Nope. Let me spell it out for you.

Prince is doing great, afaik.
I chose to buy 7 frames from Prince - not from any other mfcs.
I wouldn't have bought anymore even if I didn't like the old frames.

The racket industry has moved away from heavy, head light frames. They also don't offer midsize (<95) with open patterns.

Every poster who's tried the prince 90 (93) headsize combined with the 14x18 pattern has commented on the particular feel of those rackets, not found in any new models from any brands.

If you haven't tried one, please stop dissing Prince.
 
Actually the game has changed a lot in the past 25 years with all the new technology in strings and rackets. The manufacturers are going to make whatever most consumers want and if that's not a heavy head light flexible 14x18 frame that bad news for you not Prince or any other manufacturer.

But on the other hand there are many who string their racket leaving out mains and or crosses. Have you ever tried to find a frame with something like 16x19 and leave out two main and 1 or two crosses? You may also want to try the Graphite Classic Mid+. You could probably find one of your old frames in a thrift store if you look long enough.

Why no love for the older frames? Well today's game is more about power, spin, and stiff frames. The older open patterns just won't stand up in the larger head frames it makes the pattern too open and prone to string breakage. And if there is always the control factor. You may have had the game to control the ball with those frames but many don't and that goes back to what sells.
 
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smalahove said:
Nope. Let me spell it out for you.

Prince is doing great, afaik.
I chose to buy 7 frames from Prince - not from any other mfcs.
I wouldn't have bought anymore even if I didn't like the old frames.

The racket industry has moved away from heavy, head light frames. They also don't offer midsize (<95) with open patterns.

Every poster who's tried the prince 90 (93) headsize combined with the 14x18 pattern has commented on the particular feel of those rackets, not found in any new models from any brands.

If you haven't tried one, please stop dissing Prince.
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lol
are you reading my posts????? nevermind dude........
 
Irvin said:
But on the other hand there are many who string their racket leaving out mains and or crosses. Have you ever tried to find a frame with something like 16x19 and leave out two main and 1 or two crosses? You may also want to try the Graphite Classic Mid+. You could probably find one of your old frames in a thrift store if you look long enough.
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Thanks for the suggs. I'll give it a try on one of my Rebel 95s next time it needs restringing.
 
Just wanted to update this thread on my recent Rebel 95 infatuation:


I own several Rebels, but recently acquired Rebel 95s in size 3. TW had a great price on them, so I used the opportunity to test out different strings: prince XC 16L @52lbs, volkl cyclone tour 17 @54 lbs (a bit stiffer due to a more pronounced string tension loss). I went for the all yellow combo at first (the xc string with a yellow grip ;-) ), which felt nice albeit a bit stiff. I guess that will improve over time.

However, the cyclone tour feels great. I love the feel of the old, super headlight and super heavy Prince frames, but this latest Rebel 95 / Volkl Cyclone Tour 17 (54 lbs) gives me a somewhat similar feel (but still not the same though) - along some of the conveniences of a modern racket.
 
Can't remember the difference between the POG mid and PS85, only remembered their heft compared to today's lighter racquets.
 
I've recently strung 2 14x18 oldies, Prince Tricomp 90 (wide body version of Spectrum Comp, both are actually 93), and a Pro-Kennex Summit 95 (actually only 90 head size). Both are customized to about 340g and about 8hl, maybe even lighter on PK. Prince has ~330 SW, PK 314 SW. Prince has syngut @ 60 / poly @ 40, PK has multi @ 60 / poly @ 40.
Prince hits with tons of power and spin and loopy, serves monster kick. PK hits flatter trajectory, still heavy ball, depth and direction control is great. I really like the PK.
Next, I'll dust off and restring my POG 4-stripe.

I also have a Spectrum Comp, strung with gut/poly. It's one of the nicest frames to hit a forehand with, but at 350g and 340 SW, it pulls my shoulder out of the socket on serves...

On the side note, I do not find the 14x18 pattern in 93 frame any more open then 16x19 in an 107...
 
BlueB said:
On the side note, I do not find the 14x18 pattern in 93 frame any more open then 16x19 in an 107...
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I'm getting the banana (tour 98 ESP) for that reason. I'm hoping a leaded up 16x16 in a 98 sq headsize might be the ticket :-)
 
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