Why not actually release the top pros' custom sticks to the public?

JennyS

Hall of Fame
I think it would be a cool alternative to paintjobs. How about if Wilson had a new racquet come out called the Federer Pro Staff, made exactly to the same specs he uses. Even though most of us couldn't last a set with his stick, tons of us would want to at least try the racquets. Obviously, the racquet companies think that the public wants to use the racquets we think the top pros might be using. How about if they actually did release them and just change the paintjobs every 2-3 years?

They wouldn't have to do that for every player. Just the really big names. Would this work?
 

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
Many of us would want to try it but almost no one would actually buy one since very few of us would be able to handle a racquet with a swingweight of 350-360 like Federer's racquet is. And since Wilson makes no money from people just trying racquets and not buying them, that's why they don't release pros' actual racquets to the public.
 

Lakoste

Professional
I can see rich kids that are stupid buying them before figuring out they suck, but as BP said, I dont see anyone with a knowledge of tennis buying them because they would be really hard to be productive with them. But if companies what a racquet that a lot of people would demo, not buy, I say I'm all for it.
 
Well I tihnk firstly most people don't know about paint jobs so they would not sell many more. And secondly with paintjobs they can say more pros use it so it would appeal to a wider demographic.
 

StraightSets

Semi-Pro
Yeah, its a nice idea, but it only really applies to some of us that know about paintjobs and such. The racquets would also be too demanding.
 
Here's what TW says on the 200GHM and many of us like it just fine:

"According to the manufacturer, this was the same ‘tour mold’ version that Tommy Haas and other Dunlop touring pros used."
 

Cruzer

Professional
They wouldn't sell enough of them to justify the production and distribution. The only people interested in having one of them would be some of the gearheads that frequent these boards.
 

Rabbit

G.O.A.T.
Right now 'players' frames don't account for much in the way of sales for the manufacturers. The majority of gear is sold for the 3.0 - 4.0 market. It doesn't make sense financially to market something that virtually no one else can play with.
 

Mike Cottrill

Hall of Fame
StraightSets said:
Yeah, its a nice idea, but it only really applies to some of us that know about paintjobs and such. The racquets would also be too demanding.
I'm not so sure about the demanding. I like a heavy stick, and it would be nice to have more selection of heavy sticks. Also, I think you would find that these sticks would be much better for your arm and shoulder than those 9-10oz sticks.
 
Mike Cottrill said:
I'm not so sure about the demanding. I like a heavy stick, and it would be nice to have more selection of heavy sticks. Also, I think you would find that these sticks would be much better for your arm and shoulder than those 9-10oz sticks.
You are the only one with whom I totally agree. The heaviest racquet I use is 15+ ozs. I am only average in size and I am strong but it doesn't really take much strength to swing a racquet that is 12, 13,14, 15+ozs. I don't know why so many people on this messageboard feel like we can't handle the pros' frames. I know I could. I know most people can. BTW, I let an older woman hit with my heavy frame and guess what, she really liked it. Most people think that these pros are godlike. Give me federer's racquet, sampras' racquet...I'll have no problem swinging them. BTW, Sabatini played with a 14+oz. racquet and I am sure a lot of other women have played with heavy frames too so it's not like women can't handle 14 or 15 oz. racquets. I never weighted mine to 16ozs. but I could probably swing that fast too. It's not like the pros are swinging 5lb. racquets with such speed. 12, 13, 14 ozs. is nothing.
 

shiny

New User
I think most people with a full swing who are buying low power rackets could handle Federer's just fine.
 
JennyS said:
I think it would be a cool alternative to paintjobs. How about if Wilson had a new racquet come out called the Federer Pro Staff, made exactly to the same specs he uses. Even though most of us couldn't last a set with his stick, tons of us would want to at least try the racquets. Obviously, the racquet companies think that the public wants to use the racquets we think the top pros might be using. How about if they actually did release them and just change the paintjobs every 2-3 years?

They wouldn't have to do that for every player. Just the really big names. Would this work?
its because lower level players will break their wrists with pro spec racquets
 
tennissavy said:
You're dillusional. Read Marialover's post.
clearly you don't understand the underlying meaning in my post...they do not have the skill. even people on this forum think that the wrist is a primary force in creating power for a forehand, when it isn't. preparation is key also, especially when using a heavier racquet, but noobs don't know that, and it will throw off their timing. sure they can use these racquets, but it will only be detrimental if they want to become better.
 

Mike Cottrill

Hall of Fame
0.2RatedPlayer said:
clearly you don't understand the underlying meaning in my post...they do not have the skill. even people on this forum think that the wrist is a primary force in creating power for a forehand, when it isn't. preparation is key also, especially when using a heavier racquet, but noobs don't know that, and it will throw off their timing. sure they can use these racquets, but it will only be detrimental if they want to become better.
Humm, Quote something similar from the best so far: “~To teach correct mechanics, I would start him off playing with a wood stick ~”. Now, I suppose he does not know what he talking about either. 9oz sticks promote bad mechanicals because you can get away with it. With wood, you can’t. Hurt their game?? Not in the long run IMO.
Mike
 
for head, this would lower the amount of LM prestige sales, many tennis palyers out there would pay good money for the old prestiges rather than the new. these are also teh ones who buy 4+ racquets adn not just 1
 

WW Volley

Rookie
An Agassi spec'ed frame would sell like hotcakes.

As would many of the top women's frames, as they would probably be more managable than the extreme example of Federer's frame.
 
There are just too many different variances. Some pros change their sticks stats around quite a bit.

Also another note is that most amatures seem to think that they use some magic sticks or something, they don't and many use exactly what you have.

When they find this ineffient they add led just like you do, some use old racquets. Some top pros have special sticks/molds just for them and they do release that stick, but some not exact.

They are looking to sell a lot of one thing not a little bit of a lot of different things, that is how you make profit.

Amatures around the world are not missing out on anything, as you mature as a tennis player, add weight if you think you need it, get a stiffer frame, get a smaller head size, switch to an all graphite thin beam stick for more feel, ect.

All people are different some use the same stuff some are constantly changing ect.
 

Galactus

Banned
0.2RatedPlayer said:
clearly you don't understand the underlying meaning in my post...they do not have the skill. even people on this forum think that the wrist is a primary force in creating power for a forehand, when it isn't. preparation is key also, especially when using a heavier racquet, but noobs don't know that, and it will throw off their timing. sure they can use these racquets, but it will only be detrimental if they want to become better.
So back in the 70s when everyone started using 15-16oz Dunlop Maxply's and Donnay Borg Allwoods, we had a deluge of kids with busted wrists and arms?
No, we didn't so get real.
Anyone who claims that using a 12-14oz racquet in 2005 (when kids are more physically developed than they were 20-30 years ago) will severely damage their limbs is either:
a) totally gay
b) weak-as-fuukc or
c) both of the above

I use a 13oz Prostaff and wield it for a 3-hr match, no problem...honestly, when I read about Sampras' 14oz St Vincent being some kind of 'Sword of Excalibur' that only the chose few can swing around, it makes me p!ss myself laughing.
What's wrong with everyone??? Tennis players are skinny 160lb guys....they're not supermen, so don't perpetuate some kind of myth that they are...
 
i guess saying breaking wrists is a little extreme, but what we do have for the moment is a decline in people playing tennis. and since you brought up woodies, i think if we had people start off with woodies the number of people playing tennis would decline even more because its a lot more difficult to play with. it isnt fun for people if they cant return the ball because their racquet allows for a precise hit just to even have a chance at getting the ball past the service line. and if you think that tennis players are skinny 160 pounders think again, because a lot of these guys are physically conditioned, and work hard off the court. so i dont think its good to generalize (and insult) the mens game as a bunch of 160 pound weaklings.
a.) sexual orientation has nothing to do with strength
b.) kids don't come out of their mom's wombs with superior strength
c.) according to your logic, being gay assumes you're weak, so again, another hasty generalization.
 
Mike Cottrill said:
Humm, Quote something similar from the best so far: “~To teach correct mechanics, I would start him off playing with a wood stick ~”. Now, I suppose he does not know what he talking about either. 9oz sticks promote bad mechanicals because you can get away with it. With wood, you can’t. Hurt their game?? Not in the long run IMO.
Mike
i can understand this if the player has a good coach, but as far as recreational purposes...it would be better to have something easier to play with. since this thread discusses general public, and not players who take lessons and have coaches who can teach correct mechanics, then it would be better to start them off with a racquet that has a larger head. afterall, it is funner to hit back and forth rather than chasing balls everywhere, no?
 

JennyS

Hall of Fame
I do think it's amusing that everyone (adults, children, pros, beginners, etc) used to use the 65 sq in, 15 ounch racquet and now an 85 sq in 13 ounce frame is considered impossible to use by a recreational player.
 

fishuuuuu

Hall of Fame
Because if recreational players tried to use "Pro spec" racquets then they would become discouraged/injured and not continue in the sport. Tennis already isn't popular with kids today and now you want to make it harder?
 

Virus

Rookie
It's all about economics. These racquets would initially sell good, but after the word gets out sales would drop pretty hard. I'm quite sure Wilson, Prince, etc. use testing methods with players in each category and market the raquet that tests average across the board. They need to sell as many racquets as possible and with so many different variables within racquet specs, it takes a long time for many people to find "the perfect racquet". Many of the pros racquets meet their needs and not the needs of the average person. On a side note, I used the heavy wooden frame racquets with the smallest heads available for years before moving up. I don't have any wrist or arm problems:)
 

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
0.2RatedPlayer said:
i guess saying breaking wrists is a little extreme, but what we do have for the moment is a decline in people playing tennis. and since you brought up woodies, i think if we had people start off with woodies the number of people playing tennis would decline even more because its a lot more difficult to play with. it isnt fun for people if they cant return the ball because their racquet allows for a precise hit just to even have a chance at getting the ball past the service line......
But then how do you explain that tennis' popularity reached its peak in the late '70's when just about everyone used small, heavy, powerless wood racquets? There were about twice as many recreational players in the U.S. back then then there are today. If the game has become easier to play due to the advancements in equipment, then why have more players stopped playing the game and why are fewer people picking up the game? Could it be that the game has gotten so fast that many people are discouraged from trying the game? Could it be that the new, stiffer, and lighter racquets are causing so many injuries that many are forced to quit the game? Could it be that advanced, experienced players are getting beat by beginners using these ultra-high-tech, super powerful racquets with sweetspots the size of Texas, so are quitting out of frustration? I don't have the answers and I don't know if anyone does. However, I do know that plenty of people back then were getting into the game using their wood racquets and nobody complained that it was too hard to hit the ball.
 

RiosTheGenius

Hall of Fame
Mike Cottrill said:
I'm not so sure about the demanding. I like a heavy stick, and it would be nice to have more selection of heavy sticks. Also, I think you would find that these sticks would be much better for your arm and shoulder than those 9-10oz sticks.
thank you. 99% of the new racquets are so light. I have to buy used descontinued models to have the stick I want.... it's so annoying.
 
BreakPoint said:
But then how do you explain that tennis' popularity reached its peak in the late '70's when just about everyone used small, heavy, powerless wood racquets? There were about twice as many recreational players in the U.S. back then then there are today. If the game has become easier to play due to the advancements in equipment, then why have more players stopped playing the game and why are fewer people picking up the game?
My guess is that tennis' popularity peaked in the late 70's because of all the talents that were coming out. We got, mcenroe, lendl, connors, vilas, all of them were pros (or just had turned pro) in the late 70s. Thats one cause, the colorful figures, who made the sport seem fun, and encouraged people to play. unfortunately for players back then, they had few options to play with in terms of technology, so wood was the primary equipment for them and was more obligatory. i think we can all agree that its much easier to hit a tennis ball if we have a large surface area. as for fewer people picking up the game, i can't really answer that, and i don't know if equipment has any relevance (maybe cost is a variable).
 

alan-n

Professional
The bottom line of "recreational" sport is fun. Most people aren't serious about playing tennis, they chose to do what they consider fun. Tennis is difficult to learn, when there are many other options of things to do such as water sports, video games, movies, etc.... tennis gets pushed down the list.

Odd that golf, which is more an activity than anything has over taken tennis in popularity. Golf is marketable now with a figure to market it to mainstream (Tiger Woods).
 

M0rgan77

New User
I train with this rich kid about four times a week. When Roddick was no1 after he won the us open, this guy went out and tried the pure drive for one day. The next day he shous up at practice with 3 pure drives and a babolat bag. Then comes the domination of Federer. Once Federer starts winning and becomes no1 this guy comes to practice with a n six-one tour demo. The next day he's got 3 n six-one tours in a new wilson bag. When Nadal made his great run at the french and pacific life he comes to practice with a demo aero drive. Then once again he shows up the next day with his babolat bag and 3 aerodrives. I asked him If he liked the racquet. He said it was amazing :D . So I say may as well release the pro's actual racquet. Most people can't tell the difference anyway.
 

cbegap

Rookie
I think they should make them available. Typically in manufacturing products like tennis racquets, the cost is in the setup. Well, the setup cost for the mold is the same to give Federer 50 racquets a year or 1. So why not make more? Why have 2 molds of the same racquet with different specs? Sounds like added costs to me. If you buy into the endorsement theory that a Player sells a frame, then sell the player's frame. Most people out there buying a Wilson nSix1 90 aren't Grandma Mertle, they are people that identify themselves playing with his racquet or one of similar specs with a wannabe similar style. I think there is a lot to be said in buying a frame and learning to play up to it. Will I ever learn to play an all court game if I always use a butterfly net and slice from the baseline? Or if I want to develope and all court game, buy a frame that fits that general discription and figure out how to hit with it from all over?

I don't buy into the argument that rec players can't handle a pro's racquet. Define can't handle. It isn't Thor's Hammer for heavens sake. Is it the best racquet for that person? Probably not, maybe, who knows? As it stands right now, you may never know. Besides, what would all the conspiracy theorist addicts on this board talk about if the paintjob threads disappeared?
 

erik-the-red

Semi-Pro
M0rgan77 said:
I train with this rich kid about four times a week. When Roddick was no1 after he won the us open, this guy went out and tried the pure drive for one day. The next day he shous up at practice with 3 pure drives and a babolat bag. Then comes the domination of Federer. Once Federer starts winning and becomes no1 this guy comes to practice with a n six-one tour demo. The next day he's got 3 n six-one tours in a new wilson bag. When Nadal made his great run at the french and pacific life he comes to practice with a demo aero drive. Then once again he shows up the next day with his babolat bag and 3 aerodrives. I asked him If he liked the racquet. He said it was amazing :D . So I say may as well release the pro's actual racquet. Most people can't tell the difference anyway.
Is this a joke? Does this guy have that much money to buy racquets? That's like (180 x 3) + (180 x 3) + (180 x 3) = (540 x 3) = 1620 USD.

With that money, I'd rather buy two POGs and donate the rest to charity.
 

ShooterMcMarco

Hall of Fame
boys will be boys

morgan, you should send that kid the link of the espn article on paintjobs. it will be like telling him santa clause is fake :D i wouldn't be surprised if he was the guy that bought federer's tennis katrina racquet off eb ay

edit: erik, you're a good man :)
 

35ft6

Legend
Whether people would physically injure themselves or not isn't really the point. Most people, and by most people I mean the weekend warrior recreational player, would prefer the playability of a light stiff racket over a 14 ounce Pro Staff Classic, or a 15 ounce wood racket for that matter.

When you say "they could handle it" I'm not sure what that means. Could they hit a ball with it? Yes. Would it break their arm? No. Would they play worse with it than a game improvement racket? Yes. Would they like it more than a game improvement racket? Probably not.

Yeah, people played golf just fine without high tech mega drivers, and people played baseball and softball just fine with wooden bats, and those aren't the points either. Even the guys who customize pro sticks say that most pro rackets are just "too much" for regular players.
 
This is possible. And can be profitable.

The guitar makers often release limited edition guitars made exactly to the specs of famous players. I personally know about a dozen guys who play blues and when the Stevie Ray Vaughn Fender Strat came out, all ran to buy it so they could duplicate his sound to the note.

Same for Roger McGuinn Rickenbacker 12 string (I still love the Byrds sound I get every time I play it), the Jaco Pastorius Jazz Bass, the Stanley Clarke Alembic Bass, yada yada.

Would work for tennis, and they could get a big premium by just making a small additional number of frames.
 

GotGame?

Rookie
Custom sticks are just that, taylor made for the pro's specified needs. Last time I checked no one person or player is completely similar to another, and each player has different specs. So it is regardless of whether you could handle the heavy weight and what not....
 

livthemoment

New User
I would be screwed if they came out with the players version of the racquet. Just after adding wraps alone my stick weighed 12.7oz. I could not modify a 13+ pro racquet to my liking and get it under 15oz. I need the racquets to start at the weight they do. My strung weight is 390g.
 
instead of releasing the pro's exact racquets why can't places like tennis warehouse offer racquet customization so you can "customize your racquets just like the pro's do!" Offer things like adding lead tape, weight in the handles, alternate grip shapes and feels, and power pads. I think this idea would be more practical than selling the pros exact racquets, and may help create better tennis players.
 

GotGame?

Rookie
mxchickmagnet68 said:
instead of releasing the pro's exact racquets why can't places like tennis warehouse offer racquet customization so you can "customize your racquets just like the pro's do!" Offer things like adding lead tape, weight in the handles, alternate grip shapes and feels, and power pads. I think this idea would be more practical than selling the pros exact racquets, and may help create better tennis players.
Ummm... I believe TW and probably some local stores can do that for you...

You may just be getting your start in tennis, but I'm under the impression that there are many players on these boards that have customized frames in some way, whether they increase the size of the grip by putting on an overgrip and it can go as far as players getting frames at their specified specs. I don't think that is anything new.

You should also do a search for power pads. I don't believe they are needed in the racquets of today.
 

Pundek

New User
Too demanding

They don´t do it couse only pros are able to hit with those things.

I think it´s wrong that the industry is making this lies about the sticks pros use, couse they ain´t stock.

But most people that would buy ´´Fed´s actual stick´´ would probably get dissapointed, the stick is too demanding.

I guess you can´t buy them, you gotta deserve it.
 
GotGame? said:
Ummm... I believe TW and probably some local stores can do that for you...

You may just be getting your start in tennis, but I'm under the impression that there are many players on these boards that have customized frames in some way, whether they increase the size of the grip by putting on an overgrip and it can go as far as players getting frames at their specified specs. I don't think that is anything new.

You should also do a search for power pads. I don't believe they are needed in the racquets of today.
Well, first I think they should advertize these services more because I think people would pay for these things if they were included in the check out process. But how extreme could they go with this, like could I order a racquet with a 12pt head light frame and tell them to add lead tape at 10 and 2 o clock until its even balenced. Or tell them that I want a wilson shaped grip on my Yonex racquet.
 

M0rgan77

New User
ShooterMcMarco said:
morgan, you should send that kid the link of the espn article on paintjobs. it will be like telling him santa clause is fake :D i wouldn't be surprised if he was the guy that bought federer's tennis katrina racquet off eb ay

edit: erik, you're a good man :)
Yeah next time I see him I'll give him a copy of the paint job story. He spent all summer at the bolliteri academy. The funny thing is when I first met him he was just starting to play and using the n six-one tour.
P.S. Does Nadal use a paint job?
 

WW Volley

Rookie
Vantage231511 said:
This is possible. And can be profitable.

The guitar makers often release limited edition guitars made exactly to the specs of famous players. I personally know about a dozen guys who play blues and when the Stevie Ray Vaughn Fender Strat came out, all ran to buy it so they could duplicate his sound to the note.

Same for Roger McGuinn Rickenbacker 12 string (I still love the Byrds sound I get every time I play it), the Jaco Pastorius Jazz Bass, the Stanley Clarke Alembic Bass, yada yada.

Would work for tennis, and they could get a big premium by just making a small additional number of frames.
Bingo. There is money to be made from premium names like Agassi, Federer, Sharapova, etc.

I'd jump all over an Agassi racquet.
 

Ronaldo

Talk Tennis Guru
VW and Vantage say it all. Players sticks production numbers must be small. Bet a Venus or Serena Autograph limited edition built to their specs sells at a premium.
 
B

buddha

Guest
15 oz? i don't think so.

dear maria lover. i think you have a bum scale. pro racquets run around 13.7 - 14.

perhaps some use 15. Lendel's actual racquet was 13.7 (you can purchase it here)

http://www.woodtennis.com/lendl/

i handeled the Mark Philippoussis head prestige (he left it for stringing) and it weighed in at 13.9 or something like that. now this guy is 215 lbs and over 6 feet.

if YOU can easilly swing a 15 oz racquet than Federer can swing my 800 lb BMW R1150R.....

cheers!




marialover said:
You are the only one with whom I totally agree. The heaviest racquet I use is 15+ ozs. I am only average in size and I am strong but it doesn't really take much strength to swing a racquet that is 12, 13,14, 15+ozs. I don't know why so many people on this messageboard feel like we can't handle the pros' frames. I know I could. I know most people can. BTW, I let an older woman hit with my heavy frame and guess what, she really liked it. Most people think that these pros are godlike. Give me federer's racquet, sampras' racquet...I'll have no problem swinging them. BTW, Sabatini played with a 14+oz. racquet and I am sure a lot of other women have played with heavy frames too so it's not like women can't handle 14 or 15 oz. racquets. I never weighted mine to 16ozs. but I could probably swing that fast too. It's not like the pros are swinging 5lb. racquets with such speed. 12, 13, 14 ozs. is nothing.
 
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