Why not start mains with just a starting clamp?

Discussion in 'Stringing Techniques / Stringing Machines' started by HunterST, Apr 8, 2018.

  1. HunterST

    HunterST Hall of Fame

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    I finally have a fully updated stringing set up. An Alpha Pioneer DC Plus.

    It really is a fantastic set up. My only current (minor) problem is that I'm having to adjust some of my practices I developed from using flying clamps.

    One habit I'm trying to break is my old method of starting mains. My old way is very simple and I can't figure out what the disadvantage to it is. I simply clamped one of the strings with a starting clamp outside of the frame and pulled tension on the other string. I clamped it off and continued with a couple of more. Obviously the clamped string would have less than ref. tension, but this was fixed when I repulled to remove the clamp.

    Now, I've been using the method in which you pull both mains, set anchor clamp as far from the tension head as possible, and then use a starting clamp on that same main.

    This feels like extra steps, but I'm sure there's a reason for it. What are the benefits of starting mains this way rather than using my old method with just a starting clamp?
     
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  2. esgee48

    esgee48 Legend

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    Less strain on the clamp, MAYBE. If you are happy with your string jobs and you do not damage any strings, do it your way. I do something similar only I use a fixed clamp to hold the string. I just loop around the throat, tension and clamp with the other clamp at the tip. The friction of the loop helps the retaining clamp hold, less stress. Tension 2 more mains ending at the top. Then go back and tension the string that was initially clamped at the start. I prefer a more direct method and I am satisfied with my string jobs. If I were to string in the 70's, I may reconsider. When I do NG, if it is at > 60#, I may do it the way the video shows it.
     
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  3. CosmosMpower

    CosmosMpower Hall of Fame

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    I don’t see a point to not using a machine clamp on the first main. Using only a starting clamp might save you 1 whole second.
     
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  4. gmatheis

    gmatheis Hall of Fame

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    I start mains with a starting clamp outside the frame at the same side as the tension head. I then pull tension and set both clamps, one on the same main as the starting clamp away from the tension head, and one on the string I am pulling close to the tension head.

    I was watching some videos and couldn't find anyone that starts mains like this, the closest I could find was something called Yusuke (sp?) method. Once I pull tension and set my clamps I arrive at the same place as the Yusuke method, however 1 main has full tension, and the other main has slightly less due to friction of going around the frame .... that main then gets pulled to full tension shortly after though, just prior to removing the starting clamp.

    This seems a good way to start to me ... but if anyone with more experience thinks this is bad and can tell me why I'd be eager to listen.

    ( Maybe I'll make a short video tomorrow and upload it to illustrate)
     
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  5. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    The disadvantage is you’re clamping the string with your starting clamp right where it will bend to go into the next grommet. Try that with ZX and see how fast it breaks. I do something similar, I run in the two center mains and one 2nd main. I use a clothespin against the frame on the inside to protect the grommet then put a starting clamp inside the frame next to the clothespin. I then pull tension on the two center mains and the 2nd main on the opposite side. Then come back and tension the 2nd main that has the starting clamp on it. I then tension all other mains never getting more than 1 main ahead on either side.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2018
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  6. CosmosMpower

    CosmosMpower Hall of Fame

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    +1 except I set the starting clamp on the tension head side after I've pulled tension not before. Not sure if it matters
     
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  7. dr moose

    dr moose New User

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    something like this(?):



    I am new to stringing and saw this and it seemed like a good way of starting.
     
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  8. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    The first left main is tensioned at half the tension of all other strings, and the first right main is tensioned higher that all other strings. When the stringer pulls the two center mains together he tensioned each at 1/2 the reference tension. He never pulled tension on the left main again. On the right first main he tensioned it again to remove the starting clamp. Because that string was under a light pull before it will be stretched farther because it had some time to relax. Poor method IMO
     
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  9. dr moose

    dr moose New User

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    he does re-pull the left main, @ 0:48 (I am calling the left main the left one as looked at from the base of the racket). Then he re-pulls the right main at 1:47. Like I said I am new and still haven't done one by myself. Whats the best starting method for a stringer like this? I just scored a c. 1982 Ektelon and looking forward to using it later this week, after I get a fishing scale and some string...
     
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  10. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    my bad. That method is fine but I don't necessarily like using a starting clamp outside the frame on a stirng that will bend into a grommt.
     
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  11. 1HBHfanatic

    1HBHfanatic Hall of Fame

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    The yuzuki method 4me..
    @dr moose video shows it, you can miss some steps if you don't look closely, due to camera angle, and lighting,,
    @Irvin also has a yutube video of this yusuki method, well explained too,, (irvin, want me to post it for you? (I rather ask first)).
     
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  12. 1HBHfanatic

    1HBHfanatic Hall of Fame

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    Thats a valid point!, I hadnt thought of,,
    makes me rethink this method,,
    not sure ill chage, but it will make me look at that spot closer next time..
     
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  13. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    Doesn't matter
     
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  14. 1HBHfanatic

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    Yuzuki method of starting mains,,
    Video courtesy of irvin,, (ive been using this method for years),,
     
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  15. dr moose

    dr moose New User

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    thanks guys. I may try this with some Pince Original SG later this week, but I am going to try the Monogut ZX (16) for mains later too, and did think I saw a post regarding its brittleness so maybe that method would be risky with it?
     
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  16. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    Don’t use the starting clamp outside the frame with ZX. I string some ZX and use a starting clamp inside the frame where their is never an occasion of the string bending where it was clamped and I’ve never had an issue.
     
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  17. gmatheis

    gmatheis Hall of Fame

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    There is bending inside the frame when balls are "shanked".
     
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  18. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    There is bending inside the frame whether you shank a ball or not. And when you shank a ball the bending is more severe at the point where the string enter the grommet. (THIS IS MY OPINION) When you shank a ball near the frame and there is a sharp bend in the string the string is more likely to shear. I use a clothespin to protect the grommet and also as a spacer to hold the starting clamp 1/2” from the frame so the sharp bend is not at the grommet.
     
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  19. gmatheis

    gmatheis Hall of Fame

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    Interesting.

    Never worked with ZX strings.
     
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  20. Dags

    Dags Professional

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    I've never had a problem with it, and I use a starting clamp.

    I think it's one of those strings where there clearly can be issues, because enough people report them, but it has possibly now developed a reputation that is slightly misrepresentative.
     
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  21. clovis

    clovis New User

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    I have used a starting clamp outside the frame without problems , I also ping the strings once I have most of the mains in place. Its handy if you think you may have some tension loss.and you can still even it out.
    When you get to the crosses its time to trust your working practices/skill and discipline.
    And that cheap machine with the 8 mm turntable bolt .flexing all over the place !
     
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  22. eelhc

    eelhc Hall of Fame

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    I've tried all the different starting methods but I now use the same method as Richard Parnell (don't know if there's a name). Why? because the IMO it's more consistent in terms of "working" the string. In the OPs method with a starting clamp, 1 of the center mains get tensioned 2x. Once to free the starting clamp and a 2nd time when it's weaved and pulled again. It's essentially pre-stretched.



    Now that all said... most mains/crosses actually get tensioned 2x. once outside the frame when the previous main/cross is pulled and a 2nd time when that section of string is weaved and pulled.... but at least that's more consistent.
     
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  23. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    Not a bad method at all. But Richard has his clamps adjusted so the string does not slip through the string. I can say this because the starting clamp never pulls up against the machine clamp it is always LOSE and actually swings back and forth on the string. If the starting clamp tightens up then his machine clamps slipped and his starting clamp WOOD ensure his machine clamp did not damage the string as much. But rest assured if the machine clamp slipped his string is damaged, so what is the benefit of the starting clamp?
     
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  24. eelhc

    eelhc Hall of Fame

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    I agree and I actually do not use the starting clamp back up my base clamp. I keep scrap pieces of different strings around to adjust clamps.

    My guess is that Richard does it as a belts + suspenders thing... maybe out of habit than necessity.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2018
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  25. Shroud

    Shroud G.O.A.T.

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    4:50
     
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  26. Wes

    Wes Semi-Pro

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    Here's, absolutely, how to not start your mains. o_O
    Warning: for many, this will be painful to watch.


    7:30-13:30
    More pain from 19:55-20:40
    21:25-22:20... seriously man? :rolleyes: Perhaps you should consider pliers.

    BTW, I think that turntable has more wobble than I've ever seen (and it's not even an Eagnas!)
    2:10-2:30...
    2:55-3:20 :eek:

    Additional suffering can be found in his other video, doing the crosses.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2018
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  27. lidoazndiabloboi

    lidoazndiabloboi Professional

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    Wow, doesn't look "Easy" at all
     
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  28. gmatheis

    gmatheis Hall of Fame

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    WOW! Why do people who have no idea how to do something properly make a video trying to teach others?
     
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  29. clovis

    clovis New User

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    I agree . but it also gives some confidence and amusement to those who know better.
    What a good video to show my pet hate . an 8 mm bolt through a tiny ball race ,vaguely sort of holding the turntable in place.
    I have a pros effort myself, no excuse to be so flimsy . whoever copied the original machine needs shootin.
     
    #29
  30. am1899

    am1899 Professional

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    Painful to watch. I was waiting for him to cinch the knots using the tension head, but I shut it off when he used a flying clamp to push string through a tie off hole. What a joker. I mean, everyone starts somewhere. But one better be damn sure they know what they’re doing if they’re going to put themself out there on YouTube, for all to see (and potentially be ripped to shreds).
     
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  31. Chadillac

    Chadillac Guest

    Never understood the starting clamp, i just use a main clamp on one (slide it up, will dip with no tension). Do 2 to 3 mains, pull the one with orig clamp, then get the slack out. With a drop weight or electric its easy todo since it has tension on it that will adjust, crank will just snap and not compensate.
     
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