Why not stretch strings while stringing with my drop weight?

#1
I was hoping for some advice.

I read somewhere that a freshly strung racket looses approximately 8-10% tension within 24hrs of being strung and without being used. This tension loss starts the moment the string is tensioned.

I can see the tension loss occurring immediately with my drop weight stringer.
If I lower the arm to the horizontal and leave it, the string will continue to stretch slowly for about 10 seconds and very slowly by 20 seconds.

Like a more intense version of pre-stretching, my guess is that if I did this for every string, then the racket would not loose as much tension after being strung and my string bed would play more consistently.
Of course, I would need to drop my starting tension down a few pounds to compensate.

Along the same lines, why wouldn't I raise and lower the tension arm a few times (in a controlled manner) to stretch the string even more?

Is there any reason why I shouldn't do this?
I would appreciate any
 
#2
Not a bad concept, the short of it is, it's really not worth the effort. If your string bed feels too loose after stringing, the easiest thing to do is up the tension number on your machine when next you string. The only way you're going to get a firmer string bed is with a pre-stretch function. And truth be told, I hate even doing that when a player requests it.....just a real PITA.
 
#3
review my post history "if your interested",
ive mentioned a "tripple pull technique" a while back
its a drop-weights version of prestretch, while stringing,, plus additional advantages for better accuracy
good luck on the search, its been a while
its something i came up with a few years after stringing with my klippermate machine
 
#4
I use this method when I string my nylon crosses. Works great. I just bounce the weight up a few times until the weight stops getting lower on each bounce.
 
#5
I use this method when I string my nylon crosses. Works great. I just bounce the weight up a few times until the weight stops getting lower on each bounce.
But never apply push down on dtopweight - too easy to end up applying 200 lbs of force on the string due to mechanical advantage, which will break the string. You can break Kevlar this way.
 
#6
No reason not to do it if this yields a longer lasting usable string bed. As TJ said, just don't push down on the arm. It will slow down the process though. If it were me, I would just let the string stretch at ref tension rather than bouncing the drop weight. You theoretically get more consistent results since the string is stretched at ref tension rather than an unknown force.
 
#8
gazz1, this is the reason why some people prefer continuous pull tensioners (drop weight and electronic tensioners with load cells belong to this category) and use a slower pulling speed.

Pro stringers, as far as I can judge not being one of them, strive to be consistent with whatever stringing technique they use, and try to be as similar to other stringers as they can, so that new clients do not get disappointed that a newly strung to the same tension racquet feels totally different from what they got used to.

Obviously, if you use the method which you described, i.e., if you do not clamp the string until it stretches, you will get a higher tension on as-strung racquet, as compared to the case when you clamp the string right away before it stretches under tension. This has a downside that the racquet will feel different, as if it was strung at a higher tension. It might feel great for you, but disappointing for your client, if you string for someone else. The other approach is to not do any prestretching with a puller, but string at a higher tension, to account for the tension loss which you mentioned. The outcome will probably be the same. Your client would feel like you strung his racquet at a higher tension, e.g., some 5 Lbs or so.

The other downside is a longer stringing time and more complexity with the procedure. It is harder to be consistent if you need to count to 10 seconds every time.

The advantage of this method is that racquet comes off the stringing machine more "stable", i.e., the way how the string bed feels does not change as quickly within the first days.

The effect which you mentioned is most pronounced for poly. Poly indeed looses quite a bit of tension initially. On the other side of the spectrum is natural gut which does not loose nearly as much. The rest of the strings are somewhere in the middle.
 
#9
Longer pulls at ref tension [with CP] means less static tension losses once the frame comes off the machine and also more stable string bed dynamics. If the stringbed feels too firm, then just drop the ref tension [by 2-4#.] Pulling for longer periods at ref tension does not yield a higher ref tension; all you do is pull out the static tension loss component. You could end up with a slightly higher DT though I haven't experienced this. What I have ended up with is a longer lasting DT range in which the strings are playable.
 
#10
Thank you everyone.
So much great advice.

Another reason that I ask this is because I use the Sergetti proportional stringing method.

One of the things that I have wondered is how Sergetti accounts for static tension loss.
I mean, 1 string can vary from the next by 20% or 30% so both strings will loose different amounts of tension as a result of static tension loss.
Also, if you change your specs by 1 pound either way, you require a new tension sheet. And the new sheet isn't just the old sheet +/- 1 pound OR a calculation of the ratio of the +/- 1 pound difference to the previous spec.

So, assuming that you even believe in proportional stringing, it begs the question, which tension is optimised - the starting or static tension?
 
#11
I use this method when I string my nylon crosses. Works great. I just bounce the weight up a few times until the weight stops getting lower on each bounce.
I use this same method when stringing multi mains. For poly crosses I have been experimenting with cranking the bar to approx. 145 degrees and with my finger pushing it down to 90 then clamping. I have no idea how much of a prestretch this would add to the poly, but this method has been working well for me so far.
 
#12
You just
I use this same method when stringing multi mains. For poly crosses I have been experimenting with cranking the bar to approx. 145 degrees and with my finger pushing it down to 90 then clamping. I have no idea how much of a prestretch this would add to the poly, but this method has been working well for me so far.
Pushing the dropweight bar with your finger works to prestretch. but you have to be careful not to push too hard. The force from your finger gets multiplied by the mechanical advantage factor. You can easily exceed the breaking strength of the string.
 
#13
You just

Pushing the dropweight bar with your finger works to prestretch. but you have to be careful not to push too hard. The force from your finger gets multiplied by the mechanical advantage factor. You can easily exceed the breaking strength of the string.
Most stringers strive for consistency in there stringing. Pushing down on the weight , I would assume, you would not be able to exactly duplicate that each and every time and consistency is out the window.Does not make much sense, but if that's your like .....
 
#15
Most stringers strive for consistency in there stringing. Pushing down on the weight , I would assume, you would not be able to exactly duplicate that each and every time and consistency is out the window.Does not make much sense, but if that's your like .....
Most stringers strive for consistency in there stringing. Pushing down on the weight , I would assume, you would not be able to exactly duplicate that each and every time and consistency is out the window.Does not make much sense, but if that's your like .....
If you read what I originally wrote it might make more sense to you. I put the bar to approx. 145 degrees with each cross and slowly move the bar down to approx. 90 degrees with my finger it takes little effort to push the bar down, and gives the string a stretch. This is easily repeatable with each cross.
 
#16
So, assuming that you even believe in proportional stringing, it begs the question, which tension is optimised - the starting or static tension?
From what I learned about Sergetti, as well as other proportional stringing methods, the objective is to maximize the sweet spot by introducing controlled differences between tensions of different strings. Stretching of the strings is taken into account by grouping strings into specific groups. Sergetti method does it, other proportional methods vary - some have a certain limited way of doing it, others ignore this factor altogether. The algorithm which is used to calculate tensions takes properties of strings and their stretching into account. It also take into account tension loss on the last string due to knot. What is important, is to use a constant pull machine and use a consistent pulling speed and a consistent speed of clamping. It is my guess that the method was developed using standard stringing techniques common across the industry, i.e., no unnecessary wait time between operations, but also no rush.

It is stated on Sergetti web site that dynamic tension of the strung racquet was mapped in a lab to validate the results. The ultimate goal, therefore, is to achieve the best result on the strung racquet, but this can only be done if stretching of string in the process of stringing is somehow taken into account. I think it is taken into account, at least at a level of first approximation using several groups of strings. When you pick a string to order a tension sheet, you see which group it belongs to. It is not disclosed on the web site what other parameters, besides stretching, go into assigning a string to a group.

Since you cannot measure an actual tension of a string on a racquet, once it was strung, "starting" or "static" tensions have only academic sense. You do not know what they are, and you probably should not care. What one can feel, is "dynamic tension" which subjectively is a measure of how soft or firm the racquet feels, a measure of "control" versus "power". All stringing consistency questions boil down to this feel of the racquet. I think Sergetti method is reasonably good in getting "feel" of a proportionally strung racquet reasonably close to feel of a normally strung racquet, if not slightly on a softer side.

You might be a difficult position trying to implement Sergetti with a dropweight. It is not the most user friendly machine for stringing jobs which require frequent change of tensions and settting them with accuracy down to 0.1 Lb. Perhaps it is time to order an electronic machine :)
 
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#17
I personally just adjust my reference tension and try to stick to strings that settle into a consistent playing feel. Stringing takes long enough already, I don't want to increase my stringing time by that much for what is probably minimal gain. I imagine that you could save that settle in time, but for me it's usually just 30 minutes of hitting or leaving a racquet sitting unplayed for a couple of weeks.

But I don't see anything wrong with the idea of letting them settle on the tensioner. If you have a stringway this is easy to do because it maintains the reference tension as the bar drops, so you just watch the bar until it quits dropping or the dropping slows to a crawl.

What I've noticed on the better polys I've used is this seems to happen quite quickly. Anyway, if you get results you like with it, keep doing it. No harm other than the time taken.
 

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#18
When I string with multi or gut, I spend some time pre-stretching. I'm not sure I would have the patience to let the DW sag to get the pre-stretch.

I do believe the benefit is you can get rid of some of the initial tension loss (remember to string at lower reference tension) so you can start hitting right away at your preferred tension rather than taking an hour or two of hitting to get there.
 
#19
I like to use TW string academy as a general guide to tension loss on the strings I use.

When I string I ask if the want a true tension or a loose tension of what they are asking. I get the deer in headlights look a lot. Issue is, so many stringers don't prestretch here and the strings may have high tension losses. I explain it so they know when they get truer tensions they don't think I went higher on them. It garners a lot of repeat customers.

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