Why people do'nt talk about weak era anymore?

Vrad

Professional
exactly...Fed is having a great year so no one dares call it a weak era because that would bring out the mob with torches, axes and whips
Lol what.

Fed fans are totally calling it a weak era.

What's funny is people saying that 2004-2007 is a weak era, because Federer was winning, and then 2017 is a weak era because Federer is winning. Somehow the strong era players in the middle got lapped by both Federer and Nadal, apparently weak era champs.
 

boredone3456

G.O.A.T.
Lol what.

Fed fans are totally calling it a weak era.

What's funny is people saying that 2004-2007 is a weak era, because Federer was winning, and then 2017 is a weak era because Federer is winning. Somehow the strong era players in the middle got lapped by both Federer and Nadal, apparently weak era champs.
there are plenty of posters on here that would indeed jump up and down throwing a fit, just like there are plenty who do what you discuss about because they feel it makes their players looks better. its ridiculous and pathetic
 

Meles

Bionic Poster
there is no adoration for 2010 as a strong year. It was relatively weak.
2009 was a strong year, arguably the strongest of them all in the 2000s , arguably only 12 was better.

All of the slams had very good SFists.
and the other tournaments were split nicely as well.

and bold part ? really ? AO 2009 ring a bell ?
YEC 06 SF ( where nadal played one of his best indoor matches ) ?
YEC 2010 Final ?
Federer is betterer now.:D Near peakerer > primerer;)
 

Meles

Bionic Poster
Federer himself basically eluded to the field being weak when he said they are all one dimensional and he really doesn't need to do much except throw in some net play and some variety.
And stay off clay.;) A little full of himself after disposing of RaoMug, Bendych, and Cryic.:rolleyes:
 

DreddyTennis45

Hall of Fame
1-2 years ago when the "wrong" people we're winning, this board was polluted by how tennis has never been in worse state, weak era and so many fights about the weak era subject. That subject was pretty much all it was talked about in this place.

Now everything is fine when the "right" person is winning.
Lol what even Fed fans on here accept that he won Wimbledon with a weak tour. It's pretty much common knowledge now which is why people don't discuss it.
 

kajzersose

New User
Novak and Andy are falling a part...but we still got Federer and Rafa back, Nick,Zverev,Thiem are picking up....2015 we only had Novak,Andy and Stan (once a year)... everybody else were 6 levels below them. Federer is just making a too easy by wining a GS without droping a set but this era is not weak at all. USO will be brutal...I doubt Federer will win if Nick and Andy comes back healthy. Unless Federer takes some time off again and just focus on USO aming on #1 spot.
 

smoledman

G.O.A.T.
In retrospect 2004-2007 was a strong era when all of Fed's main rivals were still in their prime and kicking ass. Many GS champions of that era. Remember 2004 - Gaudio won the French. 2005 AO - Safin.

2005 was the initial rise of Rafa, winning the FO + 10 other titles.

Hewitt was only not winning slams because Federer destroyed him and he got a hip injury around 2007.

Remember Nalbandian destroying everyone in 2007 Madrid/Paris double?

2007 also featured the initial rise of Djokovic.

I'll remember Baggy's great run in 2006 AO, he had Fed on the ropes.

Fernando Gonzalez's great run late 2006 to early 2007.

Canas beating Roger back to back 2007 IW/Miami, making the Rome final as well.

Feliciano Lopez had Roger on the ropes at 2007 US Open R16, remember that?

2004-2007 was a great era guys!
 

SLD76

G.O.A.T.
I think maybe we should get used to the idea that whatever we see now will be the new "normal". Looking at the other side of the net on the WTA side, the situation is just as bad. A 37 years old part timer making the final of Wimbledon, Serena winning a slam while she's 2 months pregnant earlier this year is even worst and indicates a weak era there as well. The WTA has been like this for many years now, no one really dominating and I think this is where the ATP is heading. The top 4 took tennis to another level and the way I see it, the younger generation will never match this, week in - week out. The kind of matches we had in the SF last week will become more of a common occurrence, and it will get even worst when all of the top 4 retires as they will eventually do so. A transition period is expected and normal, but to who do they pass the torch to? Who looks promising? The only young player I see a good future for is maybe A. Zverev.

I disagree , the WTA is far healthier than the men's side

At leeast the WTA has slam champions who were born in the 90s


Serena and Venus are all time greats like Roger and Rafa so the rules kind of don't apply to them


But the talent is there , the trouble is the consistency

The way Garbine played in the Clay season who saw her winning Wimbledon?


These girls play like world beaters one match then like amateurs the next but the talent is there


All I know is the 37 year old lost the Wimbledon final on the women's side
 

Djokovic2011

Bionic Poster
Novak and Andy are falling a part...but we still got Federer and Rafa. 2015 we only had Novak, Andy and Stan (once a year)... everybody else were 6 levels below them. Federer is just making a too easy by wining a GS without droping a set but this era is not weak at all. USO will be brutal...I doubt Federer will win if Nick and Andy comes back healthy. Unless Federer takes some time off again and just focus on USO aming on #1 spot.
And Federer.
 

sdont

Legend
2017 is a very unique year as arguably Fedal may clash for the first time with both at near peak levels on hard courts. For me ********* is the hands down favorite for the US Open. In fact I'd say it is his strongest surface relative to the field.o_O Just like Wimbledon, I suspect Nadal is the only true threat.:confused: If Djokoray dump the rest of the season hopefully it's not Cryic again at the US Open playing in the last rounds, but he's the only hope against the expected Fedal tyranny.:oops:
Strange assertion indeed, given how he strolled on grass against the field and how his AO win was hard-fought. The USO won't be a walk in the park and it remains to be seen how his body is going to keep up.

I expect Stan to be a real threat at USO (remember he's the defending champ!) with Dimi, Nishikori and maybe Cilic if he's overcome the Wimby disappointment. Will be interesting to see Zverev, Kyrgios et al. as well.

As a Frenchman, I can't help wondering how Pouille and Monfils will fare. Pouille has been disappointing this year but something tells me he'll be back on the right track in the near future. Gael has exceeded expectations on grass and we know the USO is one of his favorite tournaments so I wouldn't be surprised to see him go far.
 

Meles

Bionic Poster
In retrospect 2004-2007 was a strong era when all of Fed's main rivals were still in their prime and kicking ass. Many GS champions of that era. Remember 2004 - Gaudio won the French. 2005 AO - Safin.

2005 was the initial rise of Rafa, winning the FO + 10 other titles.

Hewitt was only not winning slams because Federer destroyed him and he got a hip injury around 2007.

Remember Nalbandian destroying everyone in 2007 Madrid/Paris double?

2007 also featured the initial rise of Djokovic.

I'll remember Baggy's great run in 2006 AO, he had Fed on the ropes.

Fernando Gonzalez's great run late 2006 to early 2007.

Canas beating Roger back to back 2007 IW/Miami, making the Rome final as well.

Feliciano Lopez had Roger on the ropes at 2007 US Open R16, remember that?

2004-2007 was a great era guys!
 

Meles

Bionic Poster
Strange assertion indeed, given how he strolled on grass against the field and how his AO win was hard-fought. The USO won't be a walk in the park and it remains to be seen how his body is going to keep up.

I expect Stan to be a real threat at USO (remember he's the defending champ!) with Dimi, Nishikori and maybe Cilic if he's overcome the Wimby disappointment. Will be interesting to see Zverev, Kyrgios et al. as well.

As a Frenchman, I can't help wondering how Pouille and Monfils will fare. Pouille has been disappointing this year but something tells me he'll be back on the right track in the near future. Gael has exceeded expectations on grass and we know the USO is one of his favorite tournaments so I wouldn't be surprised to see him go far.
Really just have to wait and see on the young guns on hard courts to see how they start. Zverev had a reasonable start to Washington last year and just completely lost it late in the tournament and didn't get back on track until the Fall.:confused:

Hard Court Elo Rating and Notes
Rank-Peak Rank-final number is rating
1 1 SUI SUI Roger Federer 2547 (didn't even have to beat Murray or Djoko to keep this rating)
2 1 GBR GBR Andy Murray 2418 (on the rocks and non-factor versus Fed who will S&V to death if necessary)
3 1 SRB SRB Novak Djokovic 2416 (retirement from Wimbledon with arm, weak serving means no chance)
4 1 ESP ESP Rafael Nadal 2273 (Not too pretty, but likely better after RG run....)
5 3 SUI SUI Stanislas Wawrinka 2222 (Has the stamina for US Open but Fed trashed him in 2015 SF)
6 4 FRA FRA Jo Wilfried Tsonga 2220 (fine if match not called for darkness....)
7 7 AUS AUS Nick Kyrgios 2209 (with physical issues highly doubtful over two week event)
8 5 CAN CAN Milos Raonic 2207 (nope)
9 3 JPN JPN Kei Nishikori 2198 (horrible year)
10 1 ARG ARG Juan Martin Del Potro 2185 (looks weaker so far this year, but he's at the Citi Open:D)
11 6 BUL BUL Grigor Dimitrov 2145 (maybe)
12 11 USA USA Jack Sock 2125 (NO)
13 4 CZE CZE Tomas Berdych 2104 (doubt it)
14 12 BEL BEL David Goffin 2085 (maybe)
15 9 ESP ESP Roberto Bautista Agut 2078
16 6 FRA FRA Gael Monfils 2065
17 17 ITA ITA Fabio Fognini 2040
18 16 GER GER Alexander Zverev 2035 (He's just not that good on hard courts)
19 4 CRO CRO Marin Cilic 2032 (Better than this rating as Marin had horrible start to year after Davis Cup)
20 5 FRA FRA Richard Gasquet 2031
21 or so Thiem (No way).

A 100 point gap is significant. 200 means the top player wins 75% of the time. Maybe with the worst possible draw Fed might have some bother:
R32: Delpo
R16: Kyrgios (in form and not falling apart)
QF: Tsonga or Djoko
SF: Wawrinka
F: Nadal

Still think he wins as frankly the Wimby draw had the potential to have some matchup issues of sorts with Zverev and Thiem. 200 point gap with Nadal and Stan perhaps. 300 point gap with any other contenders. Fed will be virtually unstoppable short of health issues or a Nadal miracle.:eek:
 

sdont

Legend
Really just have to wait and see on the young guns on hard courts to see how they start. Zverev had a reasonable start to Washington last year and just completely lost it late in the tournament and didn't get back on track until the Fall.:confused:

Hard Court Elo Rating and Notes
Rank-Peak Rank-final number is rating
1 1 SUI SUI Roger Federer 2547 (didn't even have to beat Murray or Djoko to keep this rating)
2 1 GBR GBR Andy Murray 2418 (on the rocks and non-factor versus Fed who will S&V to death if necessary)
3 1 SRB SRB Novak Djokovic 2416 (retirement from Wimbledon with arm, weak serving means no chance)
4 1 ESP ESP Rafael Nadal 2273 (Not too pretty, but likely better after RG run....)
5 3 SUI SUI Stanislas Wawrinka 2222 (Has the stamina for US Open but Fed trashed him in 2015 SF)
6 4 FRA FRA Jo Wilfried Tsonga 2220 (fine if match not called for darkness....)
7 7 AUS AUS Nick Kyrgios 2209 (with physical issues highly doubtful over two week event)
8 5 CAN CAN Milos Raonic 2207 (nope)
9 3 JPN JPN Kei Nishikori 2198 (horrible year)
10 1 ARG ARG Juan Martin Del Potro 2185 (looks weaker so far this year, but he's at the Citi Open:D)
11 6 BUL BUL Grigor Dimitrov 2145 (maybe)
12 11 USA USA Jack Sock 2125 (NO)
13 4 CZE CZE Tomas Berdych 2104 (doubt it)
14 12 BEL BEL David Goffin 2085 (maybe)
15 9 ESP ESP Roberto Bautista Agut 2078
16 6 FRA FRA Gael Monfils 2065
17 17 ITA ITA Fabio Fognini 2040
18 16 GER GER Alexander Zverev 2035 (He's just not that good on hard courts)
19 4 CRO CRO Marin Cilic 2032 (Better than this rating as Marin had horrible start to year after Davis Cup)
20 5 FRA FRA Richard Gasquet 2031
21 or so Thiem (No way).

A 100 point gap is significant. 200 means the top player wins 75% of the time. Maybe with the worst possible draw Fed might have some bother:
R32: Delpo
R16: Kyrgios (in form and not falling apart)
QF: Tsonga or Djoko
SF: Wawrinka
F: Nadal

Still think he wins as frankly the Wimby draw had the potential to have some matchup issues of sorts with Zverev and Thiem. 200 point gap with Nadal and Stan perhaps. 300 point gap with any other contenders. Fed will be virtually unstoppable short of health issues or a Nadal miracle.:eek:
Interesting, thanks.

I still have to see exactly how this ELO rating works. Does it also take only results from the last 52 weeks? I suppose it doesn't take into account whether the wins were close or not?

Moreover I think HC as a lone surface is a bit misleading: there are fast HC, slow HC, indoor HC...
 

imonfire

Rookie
Strong or weak, it doesn't matter. Titles are worth the same. 2017 is weak, but I like it.

2015 was strong (not more, not less). Novak won 3 slams and dominated (and I dislike that), sure, because he was indeed above the others, but Stan and Roger and Andy were playing at a high level as well.

2017 is weak, though Fedal's dominance makes it look weaker. AO was competitive despite Nole&Andy's poor form and pretty much everyone was excited with Fedal's final, but aside from that (and after AO) the tour has missed Nole&Andy. I expected Nadal to win RG, but thought Stan and Thiem could do a better job. I expected Fed to take Wimby, but his strongest opponent was Berdych (who played well but lost in straights)...




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

Meles

Bionic Poster
Interesting, thanks.

I still have to see exactly how this ELO rating works. Does it also take only results from the last 52 weeks? I suppose it doesn't take into account whether the wins were close or not?

Moreover I think HC as a lone surface is a bit misleading: there are fast HC, slow HC, indoor HC...
You build your rating off your opponent's rating. It's actually built off sets almost so it does account for closeness in that way. Far superior to ranking for evaluating players, but just another tool.

Gulbis profile:
https://tennis-strangeforest.rhcloud.com/playerProfile?playerId=4259#
 

kishnabe

Talk Tennis Guru
Weak Era still continuing since 2013. Wish it was 2011-12 where it dam strong.

Djokray feasted 2014+, now Fedal get turn.
 

OKUSA

Hall of Fame
this era is weak and to suggest otherwise is complete ignorance. you want to know why it's weak? because only 5ish guys can bring competitive entertaining high level of tennis. 2 of those guys are awful to watch (djokovic vs murray finals kills the ATP) and 2-3 (fed on hard/grass, nadal on clay, wawrinka on hard/clay) of those guys are useless outside of their preferred surfaces. the rest of the field are a bunch of mental midgets that may have 1 or 2 games a year which challenge the top 5. not enough to actually tune into their matches because 9 times out of 10 they will get blown the fk out
 

chjtennis

G.O.A.T.
We know the field this year is as strong as that of 2014-2016, so no point talking about the obvious.
 
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Sentinel

Bionic Poster
We are in the midst of weak era, isn't it?!
I mean Raonic, Berdych, crying little boy Cilc for the Wimbledon title. Just LOL:DTennis is in the dark place right now.
Hi New User,
What do you mean by "anymore" ?

Anyway, yes, it has been a weak era for several years. With Federer reaching finals and semifinals of majors. And now with him actually winning them.

Federer and Nadal declining made it a weak era to start with. Others benefited from this. Now with them coming back, and no one younger to challenge them, it just continues to be a weak era.

Cheerz
Senti.
 

Djokovic2011

Bionic Poster
Hi New User,
What do you mean by "anymore" ?

Anyway, yes, it has been a weak era for several years. With Federer reaching finals and semifinals of majors. And now with him actually winning them.

Federer and Nadal declining made it a weak era to start with. Others benefited from this. Now with them coming back, and no one younger to challenge them, it just continues to be a weak era.

Cheerz
Senti.
I don't see why Federer and Nadal declining made it a weak era when you had another ATG plus Murray to pick up the baton. The difference with this year is Fedal are dominating again but there's no one else good enough(or fit enough) to challenge them, which is very concerning to say the least.
 

-NN-

G.O.A.T.
I don't see why Federer and Nadal declining made it a weak era when you had another ATG plus Murray to pick up the baton. The difference with this year is Fedal are dominating again but there's no one else good enough(or fit enough) to challenge them, which is very concerning to say the least.
It made it weaker. That's what happens.

The same as how the tour got stronger when Djokovic and Murray started to rise in 2007-08. Djokovic fell off a cliff recently - and what do you think that's done for the tour given he was at historically high levels.
 

NoleFam

Talk Tennis Guru
Hi New User,
What do you mean by "anymore" ?

Anyway, yes, it has been a weak era for several years. With Federer reaching finals and semifinals of majors. And now with him actually winning them.

Federer and Nadal declining made it a weak era to start with. Others benefited from this. Now with them coming back, and no one younger to challenge them, it just continues to be a weak era.

Cheerz
Senti.
So Federer making finals and semifinals made it a weak era, and now with him winning them it is a weak era? So Federer was steadily declining but reaching finals and semifinals, and now he is coming back? This doesn't make sense to me. Federer had a great year in 2015 and a pretty darn good one in 2014. I don't think he's coming back at all. I think when he returned in January he picked up where he left off.
 

Sentinel

Bionic Poster
I don't see why Federer and Nadal declining made it a weak era when you had another ATG plus Murray to pick up the baton. The difference with this year is Fedal are dominating again but there's no one else good enough(or fit enough) to challenge them, which is very concerning to say the least.
Actually, what I meant, if you see the first part was: Federer reaching semifinals and finals at 34 made it a weak era. This has no reflection on Nole and is not some backhanded way of hitting at him. He has enough wins against Federer at his best.

Now with a 35-6 yo winning two slams a year, it continues to be a weak era. Maybe even weaker you could argue.
 

Sentinel

Bionic Poster
I don't think he's coming back at all. I think when he returned in January he picked up where he left off.
So you agree he left off. He was injured, or was supposed to be. He took time off.
When someone 34-35 is beating your No.2 (Murray) in semifinals and then reaching finals, then you basically have just one strong person. The field doesn't appear strong to me.
Where I am going wrong, without taking this personally. Djokovic is very strong when he is fit. Not taking away from him. You can only play who is in front of you.
 

NoleFam

Talk Tennis Guru
So you agree he left off. He was injured, or was supposed to be. He took time off.
When someone 34-35 is beating your No.2 (Murray) in semifinals and then reaching finals, then you basically have just one strong person. The field doesn't appear strong to me.
Where I am going wrong, without taking this personally. Djokovic is very strong when he is fit. Not taking away from him. You can only play who is in front of you.
Yea he went out injured in 2016 but he played at this high level from May or June of 2015 until January 2016, and also played very well in 2014 as well. Agassi made a Slam final in 2005 at 35 years of age and was making SF at 34, won a Masters tournament, etc. I wouldn't call 2004 or 2005 weak when you had some talented youngsters like Federer, Hewitt, Roddick, Ferrero, Safin and some good veterans as well. I don't think you can categorize a year as being weak because an older champion is challenging the top player since it has happened before.
 

Meles

Bionic Poster
What in heaven's name are "GOAT pts"?
I'm sure some formula that accounts for status of lesser events. Rather silly.:rolleyes: It is a great website:
https://tennis-strangeforest.rhcloud.com/playerProfile?playerId=939#

I'm in heaven with surface specific ELO ratings. My only gripe on the old ELO ratings is they didn't bother to populate weekly ratings even though they clearly have the data if you graph the individual players (I'd like to look them up coming into an event rather than at the end of years). Borg's hard court ELO rating correctly nothing special.:oops:
 

TheGhostOfAgassi

Talk Tennis Guru
I'm sure some formula that accounts for status of lesser events. Rather silly.:rolleyes: It is a great website:
https://tennis-strangeforest.rhcloud.com/playerProfile?playerId=939#

I'm in heaven with surface specific ELO ratings. My only gripe on the old ELO ratings is they didn't bother to populate weekly ratings even though they clearly have the data if you graph the individual players (I'd like to look them up coming into an event rather than at the end of years). Borg's hard court ELO rating correctly nothing special.:oops:
Borg just did the most hard thing of all, that either Rafa and fed did (well, Rafa twice as good as fed, fed fans please dont hang me for that one comment.)
he mastered Grass, fast too, and Clay back to back. With several RG and Wimbledons.
Screw HC. Lol. Borg was very special like that. Its incredible what he did and in my eyes big contender in the goat debate because of this.

It seems like no one on modern era that can master all surfaces equally. When it comes to difficulty Clay and Grass most different and therefor what Borg did was quite something.
 

metsman

G.O.A.T.
I'm sure some formula that accounts for status of lesser events. Rather silly.:rolleyes: It is a great website:
https://tennis-strangeforest.rhcloud.com/playerProfile?playerId=939#

I'm in heaven with surface specific ELO ratings. My only gripe on the old ELO ratings is they didn't bother to populate weekly ratings even though they clearly have the data if you graph the individual players (I'd like to look them up coming into an event rather than at the end of years). Borg's hard court ELO rating correctly nothing special.:oops:
Murray>Sampras on grass as said by Mr. ELO no?
 

metsman

G.O.A.T.
Borg just did the most hard thing of all, that either Rafa and fed did (well, Rafa twice as good as fed, fed fans please dont hang me for that one comment.)
he mastered Grass, fast too, and Clay back to back. With several RG and Wimbledons.
Screw HC. Lol. Borg was very special like that. Its incredible what he did and in my eyes big contender in the goat debate because of this.

It seems like no one on modern era that can master all surfaces equally. When it comes to difficulty Clay and Grass most different and therefor what Borg did was quite something.
Don't bother, Meles didn't know who Borg even was until he googled him about 10 minutes ago. I still don't think that Meles knows carpet was a huge surface back then.
 

swordtennis

G.O.A.T.
It made it weaker. That's what happens.

The same as how the tour got stronger when Djokovic and Murray started to rise in 2007-08. Djokovic fell off a cliff recently - and what do you think that's done for the tour given he was at historically high levels.
There were periods where it dipped during Fedals time as well although very little screaming went on aka 2009-2010 when Djokovic changed rackets coaches and lost his serve.
 

Gary Duane

G.O.A.T.
I'm sure some formula that accounts for status of lesser events. Rather silly.:rolleyes: It is a great website:
https://tennis-strangeforest.rhcloud.com/playerProfile?playerId=939#

I'm in heaven with surface specific ELO ratings. My only gripe on the old ELO ratings is they didn't bother to populate weekly ratings even though they clearly have the data if you graph the individual players (I'd like to look them up coming into an event rather than at the end of years). Borg's hard court ELO rating correctly nothing special.:oops:
I haven't figured out yet how to sort by surface, and so on and get surface specific elos. I find the site a bit hard to navigate.
 

metsman

G.O.A.T.
ELO gets inflated over time. It's why it's not reliable.
and looking at essentially only name over form is nonsense (not to mention that it basically compounds that nature of the stat over and over). Tennis is probably the one sport when match to match level fluctuates the most for a variety of reasons.
 

TheGhostOfAgassi

Talk Tennis Guru
I like Meles, but I'll still give him a hard time about some of his conclusions. I think he knows I'm just messing around for the most part and he is very good at taking it when people mess around with him.
He is bold enough to do it. None of the posters critizinsing him come up with anything intruiging. We need new thoughts in here, otherwise we would rotten in these fan stuff. People that mess w him never comes up with something new or something that will put them at stake.
 

wangs78

Hall of Fame
It made it weaker. That's what happens.

The same as how the tour got stronger when Djokovic and Murray started to rise in 2007-08. Djokovic fell off a cliff recently - and what do you think that's done for the tour given he was at historically high levels.
I really do not see a difference in level of competition this year versus the last 3-4 years. Within the Top 4, there is some change because Fed and Nadal have risen while Djokovic and Murray have fallen. It was the reverse in 2014-2016. For the last 10 years it has basically been a see-saw within the Big 4, with the only change coming from outside being Stan breaking into that elite circle (at the Slams, not so much in the Master 1000s). Outside the Big 4-5, there has been reshuffling as well, but none of that has matterd to the Big 4 because the Big 4 almost always beats them at the Slams and then duels within itself to see who gets the title.

So we're still in the same era, just that we alternate between periods when 1 or 2 of the Big 4 are dominating and the other 1-2 floundering, and then reversing itself. But I do think the wall that separates the Big 4 from the rest is beginning to break. Hence we had Thiem and Cilic in Slam finals this year.
 
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