Daniel Andrade
Legend
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Why pickleball is killing tennis
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slipgrip93
Professional
Kind of hilarious thinking about it, but also perplexing, and sad.. I mean, geez, it looks like a bigger "ping-pong", but I guess a ping pong table isn't big enough to be more outdoors.
I recall going to Dick's sporting goods a few months ago, and heck, the tennis part of a side wall was getting smaller, while the pickleball equipment section was surprisingly just as big or bigger. And yes, pickleball taking over tennis courts, sometimes with temp paint, or tape used on public park courts and school courts in my medium sized city. And the pickleball 'pock' sound can be loud and echoey.
I recall going to Dick's sporting goods a few months ago, and heck, the tennis part of a side wall was getting smaller, while the pickleball equipment section was surprisingly just as big or bigger. And yes, pickleball taking over tennis courts, sometimes with temp paint, or tape used on public park courts and school courts in my medium sized city. And the pickleball 'pock' sound can be loud and echoey.
Daniel Andrade
Legend
That's how I like to think about it, it's kinda like a mini version of tennis or a big version of ping pong, but without the skills required for either IMO. It's mostly, or it seems, IMO, to be a sport for fun, not meant to be ultra competitive. I would like to play it some day for fun, just to relax, however I would never abandon tennis.
Here in Brazil the biggest threat to tennis is beach tennis, which I didn't know existed. It appears that beach tennis even has international competitions.
smboogie
Semi-Pro
I don't think it is killing tennis. Many have flocked to it b/c the cost and skills to entry are very low and it is fun out of the gate. When I see the growth numbers of the two and they show pickleball vs tennis growth, keep in mind the total population of players. % means nothing without knowing 'of what'. Quick search from the web:
Pickleball: (2019 report) SFIA estimates 3.3M PB players, with USAPA membership growing to 40,000, 1000% increase.
Tennis: In 2020 alone, participation increased 22% with 21.6M people playing on court. Other reports show that 6.7M new or returning players to tennis.
Yes pickleball is growing rapidly, however, when looking at total population of players it's still relatively small when compared to tennis. Their % growth is very high, but what would you rather have. 100% return on a $5 investment or 20% return on a $100?
Pickleball is a fun social sport and I think many tennis players also play pickleball so there is going to be some double counting in the above numbers as well.
Daniel Andrade
Legend
You are right.
Is it possible that it might destroy tennis courts? I think pickleball's are cheaper.
smboogie
Semi-Pro
It's not that they are cheaper it's that you can get up to 4 PB courts on 1 tennis court, regular court servicing is still needed. The issue that is starting to cause issues is around the noise with some local communities putting restrictions on play.
undertaker_piledriver
New User
The only thing that bothers me about PB is that they convert tennis courts to PB courts. I guess the economics make sense but still sad as a tennis fan.
Daniel Andrade
Legend
Is it too much where you live?
atatu
Legend
I mean there are a lot of more casual and easier to access sports, but they aren't converting tennis courts. About ten years ago I was talking to a Swedish teaching pro and I asked him what happened to Swedish tennis, he said floor hockey became incredibly popular which took away facilities and players from tennis, since then there haven't been any Swedish players with the exception of the Ymer brothers.
graycrait
Legend
Not much different when tennis switched from 65" headed wood rackets to granny size 85" and even "huger" light weight plastic rackets using plastic wire as string. Made it easier. People sometimes laugh at the 139" Big Bubba. Every 98 or 100" racket is a "big bubba" compared to a 65" wood racket.
antony
Hall of Fame
Floor hockey has a lower barrier to entry than tennis imo. More players on a team/court. Can use any hockey stick and ball. I think tennis just has a larger learning curve is also what I meant.
smboogie
Semi-Pro
As a tennis fan that has seen what tennis communities go through to get courts built and maintained (city regulations, code enforcement & funding) it is frustrating that PB comes in and just wants to convert courts without going through the hard work that it took to get the facility built.
a10best
Legend
I can play tennis next to a pool party or crowded basketball court but pickleball has that super annoying sound.
I don't think it will be popular with teens and young adults as other sports are including tennis which can pay for college with a scholarship,you can teach at country clubs and city programs. Pickelball is kind of like croquet and miniature golf which are older person's sports. Those who don't like running or improving their skills with a racquet.
I don't think it will be popular with teens and young adults as other sports are including tennis which can pay for college with a scholarship,you can teach at country clubs and city programs. Pickelball is kind of like croquet and miniature golf which are older person's sports. Those who don't like running or improving their skills with a racquet.
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Jack the Hack
Hall of Fame
To me, the comparison between tennis and pickleball is like golf and putt-putt. If you are a great golfer, you already know how to putt a ball, so going to a miniature golf facility and winning right away should be easy and natural. Miniature golf facilities take up only a fraction of the land that a regular golf course does and more people can play it right away with almost no skills, and some find it funner to play because of the low skill barrier. This is the same thing with pickleball. A good tennis player can step immediately into pickleball and pretty much start winning right away. Pickleball courts take less space and the low skill level and athleticism involved means that almost anyone can play right away. Playing real tennis or golf takes years of practice and athletic ability, which most people do not have the patience for.
As Nick says in the video the OP posted, I don't have a problem with people wanting to play pickleball because at least they are getting off the couch and having fun. But like others have said, the issue is when the pickleball folks successfully take over tennis courts and convert them to pickleball permanently, reducing the opportunities for tennis players to play. I've seen this happen locally in the PNW and it's not cool. What is weird to me is that tennis seems to have participation numbers that are much larger than pickleball, but tennis doesn't seem to have the vocal local support that pickleball has. Where is the USTA in all of this? At least in the US, shouldn't they be the organization that is pushing to ensure that tennis courts remain viable and that more people are getting into the game verses going to pickleball?
As Nick says in the video the OP posted, I don't have a problem with people wanting to play pickleball because at least they are getting off the couch and having fun. But like others have said, the issue is when the pickleball folks successfully take over tennis courts and convert them to pickleball permanently, reducing the opportunities for tennis players to play. I've seen this happen locally in the PNW and it's not cool. What is weird to me is that tennis seems to have participation numbers that are much larger than pickleball, but tennis doesn't seem to have the vocal local support that pickleball has. Where is the USTA in all of this? At least in the US, shouldn't they be the organization that is pushing to ensure that tennis courts remain viable and that more people are getting into the game verses going to pickleball?
Jack the Hack
Hall of Fame
Also, Nick asked in the video "when was the last time you went to a public court and found people waiting to play tennis?" My immediate answer was last week!
I was down in Indian Wells on vacation around the BNP Parabas tournament and we decided we wanted to go hit on morning before the pro matches started. Our first stop was a park in La Quinta and there must have been 75 people there to play tennis. All the courts were in use and there was a long wait. We drove to 4 other public locations and it was the same story. Now, this was around 8:30 AM and probably prime time in the Indian Wells area, and many of the people looking to hit might have been visitors like us. I'm sure that the courts cleared out as the days got hotter. However, I've also seen the same thing up in the Portland area during the pandemic where all of the high school and public park courts are filled on nice days.
I was down in Indian Wells on vacation around the BNP Parabas tournament and we decided we wanted to go hit on morning before the pro matches started. Our first stop was a park in La Quinta and there must have been 75 people there to play tennis. All the courts were in use and there was a long wait. We drove to 4 other public locations and it was the same story. Now, this was around 8:30 AM and probably prime time in the Indian Wells area, and many of the people looking to hit might have been visitors like us. I'm sure that the courts cleared out as the days got hotter. However, I've also seen the same thing up in the Portland area during the pandemic where all of the high school and public park courts are filled on nice days.
Ronaldo
Bionic Poster
Saw badminton transform a tennis player's serve and OH about 35 yrs ago. Recall showing the possibility of droppers and overheads in badminton.
I play badminton. The OH smash has nothing to do with the tennis serve, because it lacks the backscratch/lasso part of the swing.
Ronaldo
Bionic Poster
Not sure about that but from experience his speed and ease of the OH and serve speed were/are night and day after playing badminton. He also is the 1st and only person I met to serve with a Prince 110 and return serve with a Prince 125. And this started in the 80s. Played dubs with him for nearly 40 yrs. Other person who brought a badminton game to tennis really used it more at the net. Dropper then, while awaiting the player to hit up at the net, put the shot away by any means necessary.
I just started pickleball...
Now 72, can't run to cover court, but worse, nearest courts with 3.5-4.0 players at least 45 min away.
It's not easy. Sustaining rallies +10 and digging short low balls is as difficult as tennis.
Easy power is hard to attain, and while the court is smaller, you lose a lot of reach with the short paddle.
Weird bounces are prevelant, spacial awareness shocking hard to adapt from tennis.
Noisy.
About as much load on legs as tennis. Distance is offset by more direction changes and pushing off.
Cost is similar.
Now 72, can't run to cover court, but worse, nearest courts with 3.5-4.0 players at least 45 min away.
It's not easy. Sustaining rallies +10 and digging short low balls is as difficult as tennis.
Easy power is hard to attain, and while the court is smaller, you lose a lot of reach with the short paddle.
Weird bounces are prevelant, spacial awareness shocking hard to adapt from tennis.
Noisy.
About as much load on legs as tennis. Distance is offset by more direction changes and pushing off.
Cost is similar.
Ronaldo
Bionic Poster
Cost?
Ronaldo
Bionic Poster
Thanx, never priced the paddles. Nearly all the unused tennis courts are converted to P-ball. And free pickleball for seniors at the Y from 8a-12p really increased demand. Only priced the blue balls,
LuckyR
Legend
Considering a shuttle can be hit 265 mph, it definitely improves your hand/eye.
recreationalplayer
Semi-Pro
Palmetto Dunes, Hilton Head, switched all of their hard courts to pickleball a few years ago. Rumer is tennis pros there hate pickleball as it cut into lesson time. At least one or two went to South Beach but now South Beach has pickleball. Pickleball is here to stay, is going to grow because it is easy, requires little to no skill so anyone can do it and the games don't last as long as tennis so there is a greater number of players on and off the court compared to tennis. Finally, many in the baby boom generation are transitioning out of tennis into pickleball. As such there will be fewer tennis only facilities, we have to get used to it. At 65 I've yet to take it up and will put it off as long as possible, if ever as it looks terribly boring.
Ronaldo
Bionic Poster
Retiree just converted his driveway/basketball court to pickleball. He still plays tennis at least three times/week.
Ronaldo
Bionic Poster
The Y offers Pickleball form 8a-12Noon on the indoor basketball courts. Really lowered the number of seniors playing doubles during the day, so much so one operator stopped leasing an indoor facility due to lack of business. Cyrus certainly was a factor.
not_too_shabby
New User
I am all for people getting outside and moving around. Pickleball is fun because you can get about 10 minutes of instruction and play a game and have fun. It may take the average person 2-3 months of playing tennis once a week just to keep it in the court reliably let alone learn to serve. I am already seeing new parks around my area with only pickleball/sport courts instead of tennis courts. In that way, tennis may become a country club only sport if that trend continues. Old tennis courts don't get resurfaced as tennis, they become 4 pickleball courts. Same amount of space, but 16 people can play instead of 4. And as someone mentioned above, you can play on wet courts. Very nice feature here in Portland where courts may be damp/wet 9 months out of the year.
I don't get the guys who say pBall is easy.
Easy 1st day, yes, to hit back and forth.
Can hit with almost any senior you see play doubles by one week? Yes.
Can beat a similar age athlete who played as much as you.....not so easy.
Can beat a 3.5 rated young singles player...you probably never will...unless you can beat
Easy 1st day, yes, to hit back and forth.
Can hit with almost any senior you see play doubles by one week? Yes.
Can beat a similar age athlete who played as much as you.....not so easy.
Can beat a 3.5 rated young singles player...you probably never will...unless you can beat
Mark-Touch
G.O.A.T.
I don't know if it is killing tennis, but it sure kills my ears and calmness when pb'ers start to play on a court in ear-shot of where
I'm playing tennis.
Not to mention my eyesight. How can you seriously play tennis on a court marked with pb lines?
I'm playing tennis.
Not to mention my eyesight. How can you seriously play tennis on a court marked with pb lines?
Mark-Touch
G.O.A.T.
OMG!
I just noticed there is a pickleball section here at TTW?
Maybe a name change is in the cards?
PTW (Pickleball Talk Warehouse)?
How long has that section been open here?
I just noticed there is a pickleball section here at TTW?
Maybe a name change is in the cards?
PTW (Pickleball Talk Warehouse)?
How long has that section been open here?
Harry_Wild
G.O.A.T.
People will take up picketball because many regular people are not in shape like they were a couple generations ago. They are consume with social media, watching videos, streaming channels, gaming, etc…. sit in your chair activities. Plus, snack food, soda drinks are a regular activity while doing these sedative activities. They are overweight too!
not_too_shabby
New User
Example. Check out the picture of the facility at bally's in vegas.
Harry_Wild
G.O.A.T.
18 months?
Bagumbawalla
Talk Tennis Guru
We almost bought a house in Pacific Grove- a small coastal town near Monterey CA, that is a home
for the migrating Monarch butterflies.
We just read they are doing away with the butterfly sanctuary (across the street from that house)
And building a sixteen story hotel with fifty lighted pickleball courts.
It was an April Fools article, but for a while we believed it.
for the migrating Monarch butterflies.
We just read they are doing away with the butterfly sanctuary (across the street from that house)
And building a sixteen story hotel with fifty lighted pickleball courts.
It was an April Fools article, but for a while we believed it.
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ttbrowne
Hall of Fame
Three years ago we lined a tennis court with PB lines, bought nets, paddles, balls.Some people tried it. We had a regular Tuesday morning league. Then some golfers had a regular court one night a week. This lasted for about 6 months then the golfers all pulled muscles, the fun wore off for tennis players. Now it's no pickleball at all. Zero. We put it out there but not enough interest.
Sudacafan
Bionic Poster
I just started a comprehensive training and conditioning program in order to avoid piquetball by any means.
Kevin T
Hall of Fame
I would need to see hard numbers because industry numbers disagree:
Pickleball Fact Sheet - USA Pickleball
Pickleball is a court sport played on a badminton-sized court with the net set to a height of 34 inches at the center. It is played with a perforated plastic
usapickleball.org
But we are talking about Florida. Retirees constantly kicking the bucket, as new blood moves in.
The Villages has 200!!! pickleball courts. I belong to a club in NorCal that regularly hosts USTA tournaments and all the momentum is with pickleball. As of now, 6 of the 25 tennis courts are lined for pickleball with plans to build at least 6 stand alone courts (all franchise locations either have or are planning on adding pickleball courts). A large new housing development near me has a couple of small parks and dedicated pickleball courts...no tennis courts!!
My kids do a few summer camps at the club and...gasp...actually prefer pickleball (I almost threw up in my mouth). Sad but true.
Ronaldo
Bionic Poster
Someone should re-make The Trolley Song as The Pickleball Song.I would need to see hard numbers because industry numbers disagree:
Pickleball Fact Sheet - USA Pickleball
Pickleball is a court sport played on a badminton-sized court with the net set to a height of 34 inches at the center. It is played with a perforated plastic
But we are talking about Florida. Retirees constantly kicking the bucket, as new blood moves in.
The Villages has 200!!! pickleball courts. I belong to a club in NorCal that regularly hosts USTA tournaments and all the momentum is with pickleball. As of now, 6 of the 25 tennis courts are lined for pickleball with plans to build at least 6 stand alone courts (all franchise locations either have or are planning on adding pickleball courts). A large new housing development near me has a couple of small parks and dedicated pickleball courts...no tennis courts!!
My kids do a few summer camps at the club and...gasp...actually prefer pickleball (I almost threw up in my mouth). Sad but true.
