Why So many foot faults?

[Tennis79]

Why do recreational/non-touring pros foot fault so much? I notice that at my local park and at the club that so many people foot fault. i also noticed in the videos that many of the ttw posters have posted too.


do you foot fault?
do you call foot faults on your opponents?
what do you think of people that call foot faults on you?

 

[Political Thunder]

After reading people point out foot faults on this forum I always make sure my foot is behind the line. I never check or call foot faults on opponents. Never had someone call foot fault on me.

 

[quicken]

I don't care.
Unless the server is really exploiting the fact that he/she is foot faulting, like serve and volleying, I just let it go.

I did get foot fault calls, I accepted those and moved back and served. No big deal.

 

[baek57]

i know some people who stand at least a foot behind the baseline, and they still foot fault. my feet dont go anywhere when i serve, foot faulting is not an issue.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

I assume that many recreational players foot-fault due to erratic tosses. It could often also be due to flawed service mechanics.

Most foot-faulters don't bother me. However, when a player has a huge, booming serve and their foot-fault is blatant, we will usually say something. The other case that can be annoying is when a player foot-faults across the center mark -- often, in this case, the contact, as well as one of the feet is on the wrong side of the center mark -- the serve, essentially, is coming from the wrong service side.

 

[Yehan]

Wow, this is so true. We just played our first match in the 4.5 league and almost half the team was foot faulting. I will call on it when I see it, but not all of the players feel comfortable doing it.
I also had an issue with my opponent dragging his feet side to side and making squeaky noises during my serve. It was loud enough that I said something to him. He was not happy.

 

[gogeta087]

I cant really see it most of the time, Im usually focused more on the ball than their foot, and its even worse when its close. I hate making those calls :X But yeah, ive footfaulted quite a few times, so I usually move back a few inches and be more picky on tosses. Works nicely enough I guess.

 

[hotseat]

ive never been called on it, and i have never called someone out on it. however, i will say it's a lot easier to notice when im watching a match as opposed to playing. im not really focused on my opponents possible foot faulting when im playing, but i do seem to notice it a lot as well when im strictly watching/observing. like you said, a ton of people do it. makes me wonder if i do :x

 

[Nellie]

If the person is walking into the court and serving, I would say anything about. Otherwise, I would not say anything because we are all just playing for fun, and there is no usually advantage to dragging in your toe versus jumping in to the court.

I know some of you will say it's the rules, but again I say that we are all playing for fun. I would also say that I likely get a lot of boundry calls wrong too. I do my best, and tend to play balls that are out, but I still will get some wrong. If I sat around and called every code violation, we may never play.

Overall, I do not think that most players foot fault on purpose or to gain an advantage.

 

[chess9]

This rule is more honored in its breach.

It's a bit sad, really. Sort of like grounding your club in a sand trap. You see guys do this kind of stuff all the time and have to wonder why they bother to play tennis if they don't care about the rules.

The USTA needs a National Rules Day, a National Foot Faulters' Penance Day, and a Don't Play Two Day.

I'll be holding my breath waiting for the USTA to do something....

-Robert

 

[Return_Ace]

Unfortunately I am one of those who does foot fault.... pretty much every serve in fact (i believe).

I know it and whlist my coach tried to change my habit it never worked (didn't concentrate that much though)... It's definitely something I'd like to work on in future when i get playing again though...

Whilst I did know I was doing it, I didn't at the same time ? Like I personally never felt my foot moving over the service line, it was just instinctive to move my foot there....

And everytime I tried to do the feet staying still/block in front of your feet thing I'd just get off balance and my serve would suck (more than it already did that is)....

As for in general, it's not really enforced at a club level etc. so it's not really a thing to look out for and specifically work on...

 

[rfprse]

Unfortunately I am one of those who does foot fault.... pretty much every serve in fact (i believe).

I know it and whlist my coach tried to change my habit it never worked (didn't concentrate that much though)... It's definitely something I'd like to work on in future when i get playing again though...

Whilst I did know I was doing it, I didn't at the same time ? Like I personally never felt my foot moving over the service line, it was just instinctive to move my foot there....

And everytime I tried to do the feet staying still/block in front of your feet thing I'd just get off balance and my serve would suck (more than it already did that is)....

As for in general, it's not really enforced at a club level etc. so it's not really a thing to look out for and specifically work on...

At least you have a decent coach who is willing to point it out and fix it.
I think you should try to fix it as soon as possible. For you know the problem and even your opponent doesn't call it, you know every serve you hit is in fact a fault unless you fix the problem. Imho, not a good thing to have back in one's mind.

One of the main reasons of the prevalence of foot faults seems to be that many of those are not taught to pay enough attention not to commit it, imho.

I could understand in a sense why teaching pros don't care whether their students, either kids or adults, commit foot fault, since for whatever reason pointing out foot faulting brings negative reaction from people and also it adds one more thing for the students who are too busy to get the serve in to worry about. So, pointing it out might be bad for their business.
But considering that foot faulting of the beginners is related with poor technique in many cases and foot faulting by better players can be avoided by simply pointing them out, I think teaching pros neglect of foot fault seems to be an indicator for their lack of interest in student's game.

 

[rfprse]

I'll be holding my breath waiting for the USTA to do something....

-Robert

USTA? Please don't. It wouldn't be good for your health.

 

[Legend of Borg]

I had a little incident with a repeating foot faulter while playing doubles. He dragged his foot over the line almost every time. When my partner called foot fault, he turned very agressive and called it "unsportsmanship like conduct", then shortly after, he started lecturing us on how we shouldn't call foot faults when we're nervous. Needless to say we never played another match against him.

 

[Taxvictim]

In the Peter Abrahams novel, "The Tutor", one character talks about another as "that guy down at the club who always foot-faults."

So, even if people don't call you on it, they still think of you as a cheat if you do it. That's the most important reason to correct that bad habit.

In singles, I'm too busy watching the ball to even notice what my opponent's feet are doing.

 

[Kaptain Karl]

From when I was a Junior Player (over 40 years ago) we were strongly encouraged to know and follow the rules. It is amazing how few players know the rules ... or follow them.

"But the ball was obviously going OUT. It's okay that I caught it before it bounced."

"I'm not playing Serve & Volley, so it doesn't matter that I foot fault."

"I'm not sure if that was IN or OUT; play two."

All of these are common ... and examples of knuckleheads who don't care about the rules. Follow the rules! [Note my sig.]

- KK

 

[Moz]

I've just got back from a grade 1 seniors tournament in Italy. Some of the footfaulting by very high quality players was surprising.

Furthermore when a match was umpired (for a final) the umpire ignored blatant footfaulting and so did any wandering refs. Maybe no one cares any more.

 

[Fedace]

Why do recreational/non-touring pros foot fault so much? I notice that at my local park and at the club that so many people foot fault. i also noticed in the videos that many of the ttw posters have posted too.


do you foot fault?
do you call foot faults on your opponents?
what do you think of people that call foot faults on you?

I do foot fault probably 30% of the time. i see my league opponents foot faulting about 50-70% of the time. I do NOT call foot faults and my league opponents do not call my foot faults. If we all started to call foot faults, it would become foot fault fest and the league match would become a JOKE. but sometimes with these high level players that serve bombs at 100mph or Plus, i am tempted to call them. but i do not cause, i know i footfault myself on occasions. I think we are not as good with balance as the pros are. we sometimes shift our weight little too quickly and our foot goes forward little more than we intended and so on.:evil:

 

[5263]

Worrying about foot faults on opponents is a waste of time. It just creates bad feelings and the rules are such that even though it is clearly wrong, the code makes is very hard to do anything about it, just like those who hit on second bounce, reach over the net to volley and call phantom lets. Your hands are largely tied.

Another tough one is players who want to have a conference to make a out call. I think it is clear that the moment you start to discuss your call with another, you have given up your ability to make the out call. You have demonstrated some level of doubt, so now you can only call it in or make no call, or defer to your opponent's call. If you make no call, then your partner can still call it out if he clearly saw it out, but you should not be selling his call if you couldn't make one yourself. Asking your partner for his call is just like asking you opponent, once you ask, you live with their call, as you have admitted you don't have a clear ruling. There is no place to make evidence for an out call or point to a hard court mark, which many like to do.

 

[Bungalo Bill]

Worrying about foot faults on opponents is a waste of time. It just creates bad feelings and the rules are such that even though it is clearly wrong, the code makes is very hard to do anything about it, just like those who hit on second bounce, reach over the net to volley and call phantom lets. Your hands are largely tied.

This is something I do not agree with. If your opponent is gaining an edge from their serve by foot faulting, it needs to be called irregardless of the thought of creating bad feelings.

There is no excuse for a player espeically since they can stand a bit further back from the line, if he habitually footfaults!!! Either the player fixes it or they back off from the line.

If it is a tournament, then get a judge. In most cases, players who are called on footfaulting know they footfault and refuse to do anything about it. This is a form of cheating.

If you are talking about a social match, then I can buy it. Otherwise, if I see you footfault, I will call it. We can argue about it afterwards if that is what it comes to.

 

[Fedace]

^^ Ok then, how would you react if your opponents retaliate by calling foot faults on you ??? then probably you would say bring in the umpire. Well, unfortunately, in many league playoffs and local tournaments, there is not one available. and the clubs feel very uncomfortable pulling one of their pros out to do this task. clubs are just more worried about guys getting pissed and doing something worse than just calling foot faluts.

 

[Bungalo Bill]

^^ Ok then, how would you react if your opponents retaliate by calling foot faults on you ???

Retaliation? Why would you worry about that? If a judge is called then that is that. You can also try to get a mutual fan to watch. If none are available, then you simply tell the judge about it and see what takes place.

If it is another match where it is not a tournament, I give the bird, and end the match. If it gets heated from there, so be it.

I will not tolerate anyone footfaulting on me. It is inexcuseable and can be easily solved.

 

[5263]

Bill, I really agree with you here, especially in tourneys and if he uses it for advantage.

Its just there are so many more social and league matches than tourneys, where there seems to be no good help in the rules. It is not easy to get a proper line judge in a league match and you can't call it without a judge according to the code, right?
Not sure on this, even though I've read it many times thru the yrs. Seems I get a different read each time. Makes me feel dumb on this one, but I guess I've given up.

 

[Fedace]

Retaliation? Why would you worry about that? If a judge is called then that is that. You can also try to get a mutual fan to watch. If none are available, then you simply tell the judge about it and see what takes place.

If it is another match where it is not a tournament, I give the bird, and end the match. If it gets heated from there, so be it.

I will not tolerate anyone footfaulting on me. It is inexcuseable and can be easily solved.

Call a judge ?? Judge is only available in certain USTA tournaments and not many. and only in sectionals or nationals playoffs that is sanctioned by USTA. Many local leagues both USTA and non-USTA does not have any person to "judge". Even in regular USTA league play during the season, there is NOBODY available to act as a judge. and i have about 6 years of USTA league play, and everytime this was brought up, it ended up badly with all guys getting pissed at each other. That is NOT the spirit of USTA amateur tennis.

 

[WBF]

Why?

1.) At the lower level, individuals will have more difficulty serving. Poor tosses, balance issues, and other bad habits will lead to a greater propensity to footfault.

2.) Players lacking knowledge of the rules. You can't enforce something if you don't know whether it is a rule or not.

3.) Because of (1) and (2), you see a reluctance to call footfaults even among individuals who know the rules:

Firstly, some people simply won't call them if the opponent doesn't seem to gain an advantage.
Secondly, some people won't call them as they want to avoid potential conflict (either opponents who don't know the rules and get upset, opponents who don't think they are footfaulting, or opponents who think it is polite to avoid calling footfaults).

If I were playing a social match, I would probably point it out ('just to let you know, you might want to try working on keeping your foot off the line/court when serving', etc). In a competitive match, I would invoke the rules (warn, search for official, call or let it be called if I found one). I say probably, as I have never played an opponent where I noticed a footfault. My return is one of the cornerstones of my game, and letting my attention wander to my opponents feet instead of actively tracking the ball would not be helpful. Maybe in doubles, but I play so little doubles, that I can't remember ever seeing it happen.

I don't think it's acceptable to let it go *assuming* you see it, but actively watching for it doesn't seem reasonable for certain levels of play.

 

[Fedace]

^^I know a local USTA summer league, in which guys are all pretty serious about winning matches. even here, i have never seen anyone actually call footfaults on someone.... I don't know maybe it is cause they know they footfault themselves sometimes so it is like...... well we all do it so what the heck ???

 

[Bungalo Bill]

Bill, I really agree with you here, especially in tourneys and if he uses it for advantage.

Its just there are so many more social and league matches than tourneys, where there seems to be no good help in the rules. It is not easy to get a proper line judge in a league match and you can't call it without a judge according to the code, right?
Not sure on this, even though I've read it many times thru the yrs. Seems I get a different read each time. Makes me feel dumb on this one, but I guess I've given up.

Yes, I know. In my opinion, there is simply no excuse for footfaulting.

If we are spending so much time looking to the pros for our inspiration then why would this area be overlooked? This is a rule not a guideline.

At my level of play, after a player has learned the rules, after they have gone through their own practices with their serve, there is simply no excuse for footfaulting. In my opinion, the person is challenging me more then I him when I call it.

He is basically, saying, "tough luck nutcase I am going to cheat on you and you can't do anything about it." I simply won't let it happen.

 

[Fedace]

But even in the 4.5-5.0 leagues i play, guys do serve big but it is nowhere like the pro level serve. even the guys that serve big on average, it is like 100mph. we don't have too many guys that serve consistantly at 110-120's. and FROM MY EXPERIENCE OF PLAYING USTA TENNIS, EVERYTIME SOMEONE HAD BROUGHT UP FOOTFAULT, IT WAS CAUSE THEY WERE TRYING TO GET INTO YOUR HEAD CAUSE THEY WERE LOSING AND KNEW NO OTHER WAY TO WIN.

 

[Bungalo Bill]

Call a judge ?? Judge is only available in certain USTA tournaments and not many. and only in sectionals or nationals playoffs that is sanctioned by USTA. Many local leagues both USTA and non-USTA does not have any person to "judge". Even in regular USTA league play during the season, there is NOBODY available to act as a judge. and i have about 6 years of USTA league play, and everytime this was brought up, it ended up badly with all guys getting pissed at each other. That is NOT the spirit of USTA amateur tennis.

Geeez, do I need to thread the needle with you? There are plenty of people that can help call a match. You dont need tournament officials all the time.

If there is no one available, then I already told you what I would do. If you want to stand there and pick your nose while your opponent takes advantage of you, then be my guest.

 

[5263]

Bill,

Foot faults are so pervasive that you have them in almost every match. Most of us are not willing to go thru that grief every other time at the courts.

Your points are all correct though.

 

[Bungalo Bill]

Bill,

Foot faults are so pervasive that you have them in almost every match. Most of us are not willing to go thru that grief every other time at the courts.

Your points are all correct though.

That is fine. That is your call. If you allow it to happen, then you allow it. It is your match.

I call it for other reasons as well, which plays into the mental side of things.

 

[Fedace]

Geeez, do I need to thread the needle with you? There are plenty of people that can help call a match. You dont need tournament officials all the time.

If there is nobody available, then I already told you what I would do. If you want to stand there and pick your nose while your opponent takes advantage of you, then be my guest.

but buffolo bill, if you give your opponent the finger and leave, wouldn't you be defaulting the match to your opponents.?? in a usta league match, that is a default.

 

[WBF]

Are you appeasers the sort of people who would let someone bully you into calling a ball in that was out? Grow a ****ing pair and make the calls if you see them

 

[Bungalo Bill]

but buffolo bill, if you give your opponent the finger and leave, wouldn't you be defaulting the match to your opponents.?? in a usta league match, that is a default.

Well, Dufus (since we are now name calling),

AHHHHH, DUH????? I have not had a time where I couldn't call someone to watch for footfaults. This isn't hard to do. I am not calling them to watch the lines! The bird comes out on non-tournament events.

 

[Fedace]

Well, Dufus (since we are now name calling),

AHHHHH, DUH????? I have not had a time where I couldn't call someone to watch for footfaults. I am not calling them to watch the lines! This isn't hard to do.

oh Sorry, it is bungalo bill ?? what is the difference between bungalo and buffolo bill ?? and if you can find a judge that both party can agree on then you are more fortunate than i am. and if you just choose someone you know, then your opponents will just say they are biased

 

[Bungalo Bill]

oh Sorry, it is bungalo bill ?? what is the difference between bungalo and buffolo bill ??

Probably the same difference between Dufus and Fedace. I don't know, it sort of rhymes.

 

[5263]

WBF,

Yes, sorry, many of us play this sport mainly for enjoyment as well as competing. But be reminded, there is not call to be made in this case, but to call an official.

Believe me, I've been down this road of speaking up too many times. It's pretty bad when your partner gets upset at you cause you have created controversy in there world of ....

 

[Fedace]

Probably the same difference between Dufus and Fedace. I don't know, it sort of rhymes.

LOL, it sounds like you play high level tennis. i sure hope i don't play you and get you pissed off. :shock:

 

[Bungalo Bill]

WBF,

Yes, sorry, many of us play this sport mainly for enjoyment as well as competing. But be reminded, there is not call to be made in this case, but to call an official.

Believe me, I've been down this road of speaking up too many times. It's pretty bad when your partner gets upset at you cause you have created controversy in there world of ....

Oh geeez, that is the difference between you and me. A footfault is a form of cheating. Especially, if you play 4.0 and up. It is simply a form of cheating.

I don't allow it and my partner knows that. If the match ends with hard feelings or it continues play with hard feelings, it doesn't matter to me. I simply will not allow someone to purposely cheat on me.

On the other hand, I need to clarify something, if the toe barely touches the line, I wont call it. If they footfault on occasion (in other words, it was accidental) and it doesn't give them an extra step or isn't blatent, I will not call it. However, if a player comes into the court (past the line) habitually, it is going to be called! Especially if I am playing doubles or the player is a S&V'er!

If you allow it, that is your call.

 

[WBF]

WBF,

Yes, sorry, many of us play this sport mainly for enjoyment as well as competing. But be reminded, there is not call to be made in this case, but to call an official.

Believe me, I've been down this road of speaking up too many times. It's pretty bad when your partner gets upset at you cause you have created controversy in there world of ....

The rules specifically state that you
1.) Warn
2.) Search for official
3.) *Call the foot faults if you cannot find an official)*.

So after the second foot fault, if there is no official, you can absolutely make the call, in the same way that you call an out ball out. I do realize that it can cause controversy, but if you see it happening for sure, letting it go is just as bad as letting an out ball not be called out.

 

[WBF]

On the other hand, I need to clarify something, if the toe barely touches the line, I wont call it. If they footfault on occasion and it doesn't give them an extra step or isn't blatent, I will not call it. However, if a player comes into the court (past the line) habitually, it is going to be called! Especially if I am playing doubles!

I agree with this, but mostly because I don't have the best eyes and would have trouble determining whether they were really foot faulting... But if it were a noticeable occurence, I would certainly call it.

 

[TennisDawg]

I've seen some real ugly physical altercations on public courts when some hothead flips somebody off!! I mean real ugly, it's not worth going to that extreme! I play tennis with a guy about 6 foot 7 240# he foot faults quite often, I don't think it a good idea to flip him off!! Nice guy but I'm sure you would have to apologize (in public) or you might wake up hearing train whistles!! All for an itsy bitsy teeny weeny foot fault!!

 

[5263]

The rules specifically state that you
1.) Warn
2.) Search for official
3.) *Call the foot faults if you cannot find an official)*.

So after the second foot fault, if there is no official, you can absolutely make the call, in the same way that you call an out ball out. I do realize that it can cause controversy, but if you see it happening for sure, letting it go is just as bad as letting an out ball not be called out.

Almost anyway. 3.) is the call of only real flagrant and clear infractions, "not just like calling a ball out" According to the code in my bag, issue by our league.

the ball doesn't have to be flagrantly out to make that call like is supposed to happen in the case of a footfault. Much controversy can be made over what is flagrant as well. It's just a can of worms.
But you do make a good point!

 

[5263]

Maybe we can get a pay per view of your 6'7 friend and Bill in a cage fight. That stuff is getting more popular than tennis, hahaha

 

[spiritdragon]

i have noticed that a lot of people foot fault but not by much. if its not by much i wont say anything. if the foot fault is really obvious then i probably will.

 

[WBF]

Almost anyway. 3.) is the call of only real flagrant and clear infractions, "not just like calling a ball out" According to the code in my bag, issue by our league.

the ball doesn't have to be flagrantly out to make that call like is supposed to happen in the case of a footfault. Much controversy can be made over what is flagrant as well. It's just a can of worms.
But you do make a good point!

No, it is exactly like calling a ball out: You need to be absolutely positive that it happened. You can't just *assume* a ball is out, you need to SEE it, with no doubt whatsoever. Same deal with a foot fault. The only difference is that the foot fault occurs over a greater distance, so it may be more difficult to detect. This doesn't mean it can't or shouldn't be done.

 

[WBF]

I've seen some real ugly physical altercations on public courts when some hothead flips somebody off!! I mean real ugly, it's not worth going to that extreme! I play tennis with a guy about 6 foot 7 240# he foot faults quite often, I don't think it a good idea to flip him off!! Nice guy but I'm sure you would have to apologize (in public) or you might wake up hearing train whistles!! All for an itsy bitsy teeny weeny foot fault!!

If he would resort to physical violence over that, he should be locked up. Stupid people... Uhg.

 

[Bungalo Bill]

I've seen some real ugly physical altercations on public courts when some hothead flips somebody off!! I mean real ugly, it's not worth going to that extreme! I play tennis with a guy about 6 foot 7 240# he foot faults quite often, I don't think it a good idea to flip him off!! Nice guy but I'm sure you would have to apologize (in public) or you might wake up hearing train whistles!! All for an itsy bitsy teeny weeny foot fault!!

Yeah, very few indeed go this far. The clear majority of them is simply a bunch of word exchanges. It seems you are making the exception more of the rule?

For me, it is nothing physical at all. Don't need to unless it is in defense. I would express my opinion and simply walk off the court. I don't play with cheaters. But I must say, I can probably count it on one hand how many times it got this far.

So we really are talking about the extreme of things.

 

[chess9]

Most foot faulters know they are foot faulting, but they don't know the rules. They know you aren't supposed to go over the line, but many of them think you can touch the line. Many also think the opponent can't call foot faults. I spent the better part of ten minutes arguing with a pickup doubles group of 4.0s about this very issue. I had to drag out my rule book, which I carry with me. I was amazed that so many guys have not read the bloody rules.

I watched two guys at the ITF tour level (6.0) play the other day, and it was just a practice match. The younger guy kept asking his opponent if he was foot faulting as he was very worried about getting called on it in his first pro match. (he was a noob pro) So, the kid's father, who was sitting at the sidelines, told his son he was footfaulting often. His son asked him to call it for them!! The older ITF guy was very nice about the whole thing and NEVER foot faulted. His right foot was placed about one inch from that line and never moved until he got airborne into the serve.

But, I've been to some pro tournaments, including Wimby, and seen some bad foot faulting go unchallenged. Particularly in the qualies.

I don't understand why the pros don't have some device that beeps if the server goes over the line. But, at the top levels I guess it's not a big problem.

Foot faulting is CHEATING if you know you are doing it and don't curb it. Otherwise, it is just a rule violation, but a bad one.

-Robert

 

[troytennisbum]

Aww finally !!

Someone has posted the topic that irritates me the most in tennis...foot faults !

On a practical level, Bungalow Bill is right on...couldn't agree with his previoius posts more on this topic.

On a personal level, just about nothing in this game irritates me more then people who blatantly get away with foot faults. If you can't serve the ball without foot faulting, then you simply can't serve. These players should either learn to serve correctly or find another sport (one they can actually do without cheating......like perhaps jogging).

A few years ago, I remember watching a wild card competition for the Mercedes Benz Tournament at a local state college. In this competition, there were a lot of ex-college players. I was amazed at the amount of foot faults that I saw. After watching that tournament, I lost a lot of respect for many of these so called division I players. I can't stand cheaters in any sport.